6.1 blx tour and ps85

[pistolero]

Figured to post a comparison between these two racquets having done the same in the past between the n90, k90, k88 and blx tour. I have played with all these racquets, the blx being a favorite for some two and half years. This summer I played with some ps85's - the latest Chinese versions and the tw rerelease, never tried the st.v versions.

I absolutely had to use lead tape to depolarize this racquet and remove any heavy grip tape. Now I had a more maneuverable racquet at relatively high tension. Regardless, this is a heavy and stiff racquet, excellent for volleys and slicing low balls. Just as with the k88, it performs best as a serve and volley racquet. You would be hard pressed to find better racquets for mid court volleying. Having said all that, it's a heavy racquet and demands early preparation. Don't bother trying to go baseline to baseline against a heavy top spinner with this stick as it is a loosing cause. Set your self up for the net put away.

Of all the 6.1 racquets, the blx proved to me to be the most versatile - serves and overheads are excellent. Velocity is easily generated with good spin from baseline. Slices are good, but not like the ps85's. You have to volley aggressively with this racquet as it is not going to aide you like the ps. It is a more "all court" type racquet, allowing you to mix it up... But with less precision.

Cannot say which I prefer. The accuracy of the ps85 is unmatched. It does however cough up shanks from baseline if you are a heavy top spinner. So ultimately it may depend on how you play or how you want to play.

 

[pistolero]

just wanted to add on, I recently picked up an early st. vincent ps85 and it felt a lot different from the chinese versions. essentially, it is much less head-light. this is the major difference. hitting against the wall, one finds it is also more precise.

it has been a while since i played with the k88, but it felt similar to that racquet. unlike the newer versions, you should be okay from baseline as it delivers easy power (and precision), but the smaller head makes it challenging to return heavy top spin with heavy top spin. a strong player with good transition should be able to manage. serves, volleys and overheads are tops; to get all three from one racquet says a lot.

so now the big question, given the high quality of play provided by this racquet, can one maintain good play for a couple of hours? it was something of a concern with the more hefty k88. the only down side to these racquets being their great weight. if you are a baseline player which relies on top spin, you are better off with the n90, k90, blx90 or psblx90, but for those who demand precision shot making and comfortable volleying, the st.vincent ps85 is excellent... but being a skilled player may not be enough, fitness becoming an issue, especially during difficult conditions.

 

[v-verb]

Thanks pistolero! I was wondering how you liked the StV! So are you sticking with it?

I got another one yesterday - think it's a 4 5/8 but the stickers came off. Bumperless...

 

[pistolero]

yes. i played some doubles with it yesterday and my serves were looking sharp. better and sturdier on volleys, good power from baseline. now just need to put on some good strings.

 

[pistolero]

Just a final note on the ps 85 (and k88) frames as opposed to the more headlight and lighter racquets - footwork and preparation. These racquets demand earlier and better preparation. They are not as maneuverable as the 6.1 series of frames, but if one prepares sooner, most everything falls into place. Without a doubt, these frames prove themselves advantageous at the net and mid court, so move forward, take the ball early and attack those volleys.

 

[pistolero]

another note -- the blx90 allows for better angled shots and is easier on high hitting balls, top spin, slices or overheads. it allows for quicker racquet head, making it easier to do these things. the 85 and 88 can do these also, but are more demanding, slowing the game down. they do however provide a greater sense of security, the solid frames able to return everything nice and deep quickly. i have yet to find a more enjoyable racquet to play high risk tennis than the blx90, but having said that, the ps85 is the most capable frame at net and mid court which can hardly be considered safe game play.

 

[Sander001]

So which racquet are you using as your main weapon: The PS85, the 6.0 or the BLX90?

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

I have a different observation. I find the 85 to be a faster frame than the Pro Staff/Tour 90 series. I switched because of that reason.

 

[pistolero]

the balance is quite different. i found it good for powerful first serves and hitting deep penetrating balls from baseline given the time. it's actually a nice frame combining baseline power and good punch at net, but slower, less feel, requiring more effort on serves and overheads than the blx90.

i have been using the ps85 st.vincent model for about a month now.

 

[pistolero]

Thought to update this thread on some recent observations between the ps85 and 90's as there are enough players like myself who enjoy both these frames.

Strings -- I have been hybridizing with a relatively soft copoly and find it better to put the multi on the mains just to maximize the accuracy, sacrificing on the spin. This adds to the velocity of the serve without affecting the kicker too much. You can also string at relatively higher tension before it becoming too uncomfortable. From my experience, the added spin from stringing the poly on the mains is not worth it.

Customizing -- the 90 frame allows for a wider range of customizing because it is lighter. If you take off the leather grip, even more so. Unless you are significantly stronger and fitter than the average ps user, the 85 can only take on so much more additional weight in the head before dramatically affecting sw.

Dimensions -- though they may look similar, they are not. The 85 is a tad longer (at least the st.v I have been using is) and also has a lengthier throat due to the smaller head. One might think the 85 is less powerful and better on volleys because of the smaller head, but I suspect the longer throat translates into more plough and less control on the volleys; the face is simply farther from the grip. Essentially, the 85 is more like a "hammer" as far as dimensions go.

Balance -- these are both such nice feeling frames with high degree of control. Generally, the 90's have more overall power, "easy power," because they have more spring from the strings and are lighter resulting into a faster swing; more strings also means more weight. Given the stock balance with leather grip, there are any number of things a player can do with these frames, especially at the higher levels given the greater pace of the game. The stock balance with leather grip of the 85 results in a HL racquet which is maneuverable and sturdy. The less HL, the less maneuverable it becomes.

Material -- I do not know enough about what goes into a tennis racquet, but it is obvious that given the range in material going into them (as well as the strings, and combination of them), the possibilities are far and wide. The graphite/Kevlar combo in the 85 must be a very good one as these frames can take on some pretty heavy shots... There's just seems to be more stuff in a compact beam. Needless to say, looking forward to trying out the new 90 w this combination.

Another user of both these frames stated in his signature, "if one doesn't do the job, the other will..." or something to that effect. The difference today is the great amount of spin imparted on the ball. Unless you are playing with guys who consistently keep the the ball mid to low height, usually translating into a shallow court type play, the 90 frames are better suited to today's game. I have been using the 85 since last spring and have to find ways to keep the pressure on and move forward. You can play the same way with the 90, but the chance of overhitting are greater.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Thought to update this thread on some recent observations between the ps85 and 90's as there are enough players like myself who enjoy both these frames.

Not going to quote your entire post, that'll just be inefficient. But I'll chime in, if you've read my thread, I playtested the 85 extensively before deciding to switch from my beloved BLX90.

Strings - I dont tinker much with strings, found a combination that worked for me and sticking with it. So no comments here.

Dimensions - The 85 "feels" more narrow in the air, because like you said, it has a slightly smaller head and a slightly longer throat area. Agree with you here. But the (TW re-issue) 85 hits more like a scalpel. My beloved BLX90 was the hammer.

Balance - Don't the 85 and 90 have the ~same weight? The stock balance of (TW re-issue) is more headlight than the 90 though. Hehe, but I had my 90 modded to 370g, so I did the same with the 85.

Material - There are debates on the subject of material used in the 90. Some argued that the 90 retained the 85's formula of graphite/kevlar. And I believe it. Aside the (TW re-issue) 85 being more flexible in general, it feels identical to my 90. Which lead me to believe Pro Staff/Tour 90's retained the 85's graphite/kevlar. (Why mess with perfection if it's working already?)

 

[pistolero]

As far as materials go, I do not know enough. The st.v feels about as solid as a racquet as I have ever used. The k88 is the only other that felt as sturdy.

I have the blx90 anywhere between 8 to 10g lighter than the st.v, both leather less. Suspect the tw reissue is about the same. It's not a lot, but given the blx90 hits with more power right off the shelf, it's easy to see why there is more room to customize and maintain swing speed. The swing speed on the 85 (and 88) feels slower to me though they have super plough; this has not been measured.

Maybe I should not have used the word "hammer." Just did not expect the 85 to be longer overall. If anything, I was expecting it to be the shorter racquet and therefore having a similar throat length. Given this is of another generation of racquets, for us to make these comparisons and having the tw reissue says something.

It took a lot to pry me away from the blx90; just an offensive wrecking ball with some excellent maneuverability. I may modify and restring it this off season.

 

[pistolero]

leather grip and western forehand --

about a month has gone by and i have added the leather grips to my 85's. initially took them off because the racquets felt too heavy with them on, ~22g per, not something i was used to at the time. i had also moved towards a more head heavy setup, lowest at 4 points HL. this was pretty good for the ground game and serves, but took away too much from the volleys.

the leather grip brings my PS' to some 1" (8pts) HL. the added weight on the handle means more maneuverability though the static weight has increased; faster swing speed, less rushed. it also acts as a natural shock dampener. this all translates to better volleying and overheads. finally, the "feel" is better; depth control from baseline, drop-shots, lobs, accuracy to go down the line...

the down side to all this is an overall heavier racquet, but given that the PS midsize is doing more of what it was designed to do, it's something one must live with and accept.

i have been told the balls today are heavier than in the past when this racquet was designed - it does not matter. if you play the game the way this frame wants to play, everything falls into place.

i have been experimenting with the western forehand. this may not be the ideal frame for it, but came out of the need in dealing with high bouncing balls in the back court. it's not bad on hybrid strings, expect it to be better on a full bed of gut, but it's nothing to talk about. not something you want to keep doing with this frame, rather take advantage of its design to drive lower balls and move in to volley.

 

[pistolero]

How to best use these frames if you are a club player like me (IMO) --

I had mentioned in another thread the 85 was very effective up to a certain level of play, ~4.5. above and beyond that, assuming the opponent is using a modern frame, it becomes a real challenge. Given the greater velocity and top spin generation of today's racquets, I found myself all too often on the defensive, not what the ps85 was designed for. Interestingly, it performs better in slower paced matches as it allows to dictate the points without over hitting.

There is something to be said about whipping groundstrokes. The 85 and 88 frames are simply too stiff and heavy to rip shots with confidence in pressure situations. They are the more demanding racquets, demanding higher fitness. Great to practice with. Again, if on the offensive, very effective delivering heavy balls, otherwise you are better off playing the 90.

I have been able to add a greater kick to my serves w the 85. The blx90 (and all 90 frames), deliver faster serves and better slice serves. The blx90 might be easier on overheads, but the 85 is rock solid at net and has become my go to frame for doubles.

 

[pistolero]

Looking ahead and some food for thought --

I began hitting more w the blx90 w moderately positive results. The biggest factor which stuck out is its hard hitting, like a "hammer." This version has been my favorite because it feels the easiest on overheads and serves. Having said all that, I can confidently say the ps85 is the better racquet. It has improved my tennis more than any other racquet, providing more spin, touch and stability.

A correction on whipping groundstrokes -- the 85 is a very stiff racquet and a well driven ball can be lasered with precision. This stiffness, or less flexing, feels quite different from other racquets, but once accustomed delivers consistent shots. I have also found it easier on he arm than the 90.

Dealing w big top spin -- if your opponent is a speedy baseline counter-puncher, my advise would be to mentally slow down. The ps is an offensive racquet but there is no point in wearing yourself out. Use depth control and change of pace and come forward for the easy put away. Chances are your opponent is using a light oversized racquet, slice and keep the ball low. On the other hand, if your opponent is an advanced hard hitter w big kick, up your game and hit on the rise.

Looking ahead, I have yet to demo the 2014 ps90 which others are saying plays stiffer. If there is a 90sq" racquet out there which is comparable to the 85, I have yet to play with it. The older generation of mids might be heavier, but they feel better.

 

[pistolero]

it has been about a year playing with the ps85 and by now it should be feeling near second nature. here's a full comparison of the two racquets, pros and cons --

ps85 prefers a more compact swing than the blx90 -- i found it more difficult to let the head drop on the 85 and just 'whip' the ball; too many shanks from the near top of the frame. the 90 allows for more of this and is the easier racquet to hammer flat winners, whereas the 85 is going to set you up more for the over head. when using the 85, stay low and more compact, think about driving the ball as opposed to whipping it. it's classic tennis at its best.

the ps85 delivers big top spin -- it may play slower but it can produce some great kicking balls. it's a solid racquet and can handle any type of ball and allows for v good depth control. you can also change the pace and nature of the rallies more so, hard driving balls to short slicing balls. kick serves are super. your serve percentages should go up with it, even slice and flatter serves. many are using the 85 as a learning aide, good idea.

use an eastern grip for both racquets -- i experimented for a while using a semi-western grip, or similar, on both racquets and found them only effective when deep in the back court to return with more spin or possibly on bigger kicking serves. it is generally unnecessary and something else needing to think about. keep it simple and play in the court.

versatility versus feel -- though the ps85 feels better, it's solidity gives a sense of security, the blx90 is the more veraitile racquet: more touch at net, easier on overheads, jamming balls, half volleys, swinging volleys, short bh flicks. the 90 is also going to give you those sharper diagonal short shots and drop shots from baseline.

well, that's about it. a couple of great racquets which definately make this game a lot of fun to play. i have been playing primarily w the ps85 this past year, sometimes switching to the blx90 to make things easier, esspecially for singles action.

 

[yangster007]

I think the PS85 is a bit quicker than the BLX90, but that's about it's only upside. The BLX90 (or any tour 90) has more room for error, more power, easier to adjust/control spin amount. The biggest thing is the PS85 lacks the punch/court penetration of the tour 90s.

 

[pistolero]

i would say there is a greater tendency to over hit w the 90's though there is a wanting to go for more winners w it. they are more intimidating but i like the way the 85 feels. i have tried silicone in the handle of the 90 and it does give it a more 'whole' sense in the handle, but really the entire frame has to be properly modified to achieve the desired feel.