7 minutes of matchplay: feedback welcome

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Tyler-James, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    12.2.17 - OP (dark shirt) won 6-1, 6-1



    12.3.17 - Match end with OP (Dark shirt and balding) ahead 6-4, 4-5



    You think technique is ugly now? Check out OP (red shirt) from 3.24.16 against the same player. This was before I learned how to hit a 2HBH



    My friend sometimes like to film our matchplay, so I thought I would share it. I would love any technical/strategic feedback you might have.

    Dark shirt/light shorts - That's me. I'm working on improving the kinetic chain in my serve (more knee bend, less footfaults, more shoulder rotation, more racquet drop), serve accuracy, forehand kinetic chain, backhand swingpath, getting to the net.

    Light shirt/dark shorts - That's my friend. He's got quite a solid looking game technically, mostly just commits too many mental and strategic errors.

    OP background - Playing for about 4 years, mostly self-taught, but trying to improve technically over the past 1.5 years.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
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  2. Dragy

    Dragy Semi-Pro

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    Was he provoking lobs to get those tweener opportunities?

    Nice hitting and filming, pleasure to watch.
     
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  3. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    He asked me three times to set him up during the match (otherwise, they were all competitive points). He just couldn't make it happen. He's had a couple tweener passing shots on me before for real.
     
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  4. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Professional

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    Nice touch on your lobs!

    Need more shoulder/hip rotation on your forehands. Especially evident when you're returning his serve, you're mostly just arming the ball. Compare against Agassi, for example, who has excellent shoulder/hip rotation:

    IMHO, you're facing the net too much on your service stance, you might do better to have your back facing the net more, have you ever tried? (Watch some video of Johnny Mac who even in his 50's has a pretty big serve, and tons of torso rotation.) The serve is a complex motion, might be an area where a few hours of good coaching could really help?
     
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  5. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Legend

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    [​IMG]

    Serve has awkward angle at wrist just before impact.

    The OP appears to have his own serving technique that probably does not involve any internal shoulder rotation (ISR). ISR is the most important sub-motion of the high level serve. High speed video is needed to directly see this motion otherwise you can imagine that you are seeing other motions.

    The OP should study the high level serving technique as described by Marshall, Elliott, Reid, Crespo and other tennis researchers starting around 1995 when research proved that ISR was the most significant joint motion for racket head speed. Search (TW or Google): internal shoulder rotation Chas

    Biomechanics and Tennis, 2006, B. Elliott
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2577481/

    Hold your arm in the position shown in your picture but with the forearm-racket angle more like this

    [​IMG]
    You can see that with the racket at an angle to his arm, if his upper arm rotates rapidly the racket head will move rapidly forward- the ISR addition. (Your racket does not have much angle and you are probably not rotating your upper arm.) This is not an instruction but a demo of how ISR fits it.

    Video
    https://vimeo.com/27528701

    To do single frame on Vimeo hold down the SHIFT KEY and use the ARROW KEYS.
    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...oulder-rotation-on-serve.478319/#post-7780586

    Now rotate your upper arm around its long axis - the line between the shoulder joint and elbow - back and forth. Try to move only from the shoulder joint. The racket head can more forward with some speed from this motion - internal shoulder rotation. This motion is an integral part of the high level serve - the arm both swings forward while at the same time it rotates around the axis of the upper arm. But the majority of active tennis players do not understand that - the Tennis Serve Nuthouse.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
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  6. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    Do you want to improve alot, or stay at current level with some improvements over time?
    If you are not really aiming to improve a ton and get to a much higher level you are probably better of just sticking with ur current technique and drilling it, since you are obviously acustomed to it and have some solid consistency with it, from all the mileage and experience with it.
    If you want to reach a much higher level u will probably need to change a few things with ur technique, your serve has many technical elements that could be improved @Chas Tennis pointed out some.
    Your forehand is also technicaly very akward and strange, you don't use much of ur kinetic chain, but the biggest problem is your excessive wrist snap around the ball, you don't really extend much into the shot but really have a very forceful wrist snap.
    Its obvious you play tennis for a while and have reached a pretty solid level with a lot of consistency with time and practice and experience, but I would advise you to at least look at your forceful wrist snap and try to fix it, because its an injury in the making.
     
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  7. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Nice vid and great playing. Watch those cross court approaches!
     
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  8. tlm

    tlm G.O.A.T.

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    Good playing.
     
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  9. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    I like the sound your forehand makes! You seem to do the lag / flip thing pretty well. Sometimes you seem to get caught late though, maybe earlier prep (deciding on FH or BH) would help you
     
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  10. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    I absolutely agree more shoulder/hip is needed on both wings. My opponent is one of the hardest and deepest hitters I play against, so my technique tends to break down against his bigger strokes. I definitely need more controlled practiced closing my stance off a bit, and working up the pace. I could also absolutely use more coaching on my serve. I've taken maybe 3-4 lessons before since I started playing, and unfortunately, most of the advice was pretty generic and unhelpful (e.g., use your legs more!) I'm actually pretty close to Ian Westermann of Essential Tennis, so I might see if he'll give me some private lessons.

    Chas,

    I was hoping you'd respond! I love reading your analysis on the forums. I consider myself a rather scientific-minded individual, so I appreciate your objective approach to mastery. Would it be fair to say that ISR is simliar to what other tennis instructors refer to as pronation of the forearm?



    I've recently (maybe over the past couple of weeks), starting to work on pronation of my serves, so that my palms are facing left in the prepartion phase, facing forward at contact with the ball, and releasing out to the right in the follow through. Of course, this structured practice is stil breaking down during my matches. I'd love to record some more super slow mo for you to look at after I take some of your initial feedback and work on it. In addition to the ISR, your screen shot highlight just how off balance some of my serves looks (e.g., trunk angle severely off to the left, right leg not really doing any help).

    Thanks for the comments. I am absolutely aiming to improve my level, as I have no kids and a GF that loves when I leave the house to play tennis, =)

    The serve is definitely on my work bench right now, I'll post some more slow-mo vids when I get the chance (hopefully this week).

    I've only had one right wrist injury since I've started playing (maybe 4 years on the courts). It was a strain, and went away after maybe two weeks wrapping. Do you have a good video example of wrist motion in a forehand? I found this video of Fed:



    His wrist has a ridiculous amount of extension just before contact (creating the 'racquet lag'), but it looks like his follow through stays pretty neutral. Is that what you are getting at? My followthrough has some unnecessary flexion of the wrist? I wouldn't doubt it. I'll need to take some slow-mo vids soon.

    Thanks. His approaches, or mine? I definitely leave too many balls short, which gives him an opportunity to pick his corner.

    Thanks!

    Absolutely! He's hitting the ball hard and deep, which is throwing off my timing. I'm going to try and focus more on early turn and prep coming up this week.
     
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  11. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    This is something @Curious and I have been working on currently too. If you watch Nishikori he seems to unit turn AS THE BALL IS HIT by his opponent. Then he moves toward the ball while in the unit turn - its pretty amazing. I think its really hard to be caught late doing that.
     
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  12. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    @Tyler-James, look how awesome Andrei does the quick unit turn. Greatest fix to many tennis related problems, I believe.

     
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  13. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    No thats not what I mean at all.
    Your forehand swing has little kinetic chain ur hardly using ur body at all, mostly ur using ur arm, forearm, wrist to power your stroke.
    Now in high level forehands the players use all of their body and also they extend the arm/racquet into the shot, if they want more spin they swing more low to high and also extend but since the motion is so low to high the swing goes very upwards and then in the followthrough it kind of swings around like a windshield wiper motion, but thats the end result of the swing, the arm naturaly moves around from the momentum before but the arm itself is pretty relaxed.
    You however use alot of arm muscles to power ur strokes, and you don't extend much but as you hit the ball you PULL ACROSS very hard with ur arm, it certainly looks like that on the video, like ur really actively using ur arm to swipe around in this windshield wiper movement, which could lead to injuries.

    Look at the blue line bellow:

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Legend

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    If an instructional video on the serve does not
    1) mention "internal shoulder rotation",
    2) does not clearly show ISR,
    3) does not clearly demonstrate ISR

    find instructional videos that do.

    The word 'pronate' or 'pronation' - used in an undefined way - may be in wide use, but that usage muddles understanding of the serve for the majority of active players.

    Why is that so? Why use incorrect and undefined terms instead of correct terms that are well-defined joint motions?

    This stuff was proved and clearly explained over 20 years ago, why are these simple ideas still muddled? It's basically that many adults don't think of rotating the upper arm as a significant source of power even though the largest muscles attached to the arm are right there, available for use.

    If you approach the serve by going to checkpoints - simply positions - before studying the motion, that does not seem like a good approach. I don't have much advice for stroke instruction, except don't go to checkpoints and ignore the right body speeds and degree of stretched muscles. Use checkpoints for feedback. You don't have to understand all details and biomechanics, but compare very carefully to high level strokes using high speed video and similar camera angles.

    Video in direct sunlight at 240 fps or so. To attempt to see ISR directly, include a close up that shows the upper arm and the shadows around the elbow. Two good camera views: 1) camera from behind looking along the the ball's trajectory and showing bounce or 2) from the side, viewing perpendicular to the ball's trajectory, viewing the server and more in front.

    I look at Vimeo or Youtube videos but avoid using other internet video communication links where I'm not familiar with the security issues. Please post on Vimeo or Youtube.




     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  15. ShahofTennis

    ShahofTennis Professional

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    OP, might I suggest warming your joints up with some band work? Shoulder/Scapula, Lower Back/Hips, and Knee/Ankle all seem to be in need of some TLC.
     
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  16. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for posting. I must be subscribed to your YT account because I watched this the other day. It is almost exactly like my singles matches with what is good and what errors there are, so really good to study for me.
     
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  17. samarai

    samarai Semi-Pro

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    thats some high level 4.5's. Would have guessed that it was a higher level of players.
     
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  18. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    I'll watch some Nishikori, thanks for the tip! I certainly don't have the anticipation to recognize where the ball is going that early, but that's why we practice.

    He looks good! Your son?

    I made a slow-mo vid for you.



    I can definitely see that more neutral balls, I often have better use of my legs and core kinetically. On body serves, running shots, and approach shots, my wrist tends to flick more on the forehand side. Any suggestions?

    Thanks for taking the time to respond. I've taken 6 slow-mo flat serves, 3 from behind, and 3 perpendicular to the path of the ball. Unfortunately, it's about 15-20 degree windchill in my area, so I'm relegated to this dim indoor lights.



    Based on the video, it looks like serves 2 and 3 have some amount of ISR, as the arm appears to rotate outward.

    Plenty of things to work on: tossing ball farther into the court and more to the right, dropping the elbow farther in the trophy pose, more pronounced and functional ISR, explosive leg drive.

    Yeah, I've definitely been meaning to watch some band videos to at least do some rotator cuff exercises before playing. I normally do dynamic stretching if I have time. However, we often play at 6:30am, so I'm normally rolling up to the court with a hot coffee.

    Probably my hitting partner in this video's channel. He's got a nice camera; he normally sets his tripod up on the balcony for this angle. Are you more like me (consistent, too safe), or him (aggressive, too many UFEs)?

    Thanks for watching!
     
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  19. ChaelAZ

    ChaelAZ Hall of Fame

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    A solid mix of both. I try to be aggressive, make errors, so then try to be consistent and too safe and my opponent starts spanking balls back. Somewhere between is my few solid games, but they are there.

    Cheers.
     
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  20. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Legend

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    1) Most of your clear racket rotation, ISR, is probably after impact. None of that builds any racket head speed for impact. Look at the high speed video serve that I provided. I counted 7 clear frames of ISR leading to impact. At 240 fps or 4.2 ms per frame 7 frames is about 29 milliseconds of effective ISR. Forum servers often have a strong ISR motion after impact when it can have no effect on impact.

    From behind, your arm is in shadow and the overall silhouette does not show very clear direct evidence of ISR. It is nice to see the veins or low point shadows moving around the arm in direct sunlight. You can also tape a "throwie" (LED plus battery) on your arm if you can't find a warm weekend with direct sunlight.

    2) Seen from the side, you appear completely vertical - no forward angles. Compare to high level serves. Do you have the thought? - 'I want to reach as high as I can'.

    Here is a recent post detailing the angles that are seen in a high level serve but that aren't in yours. Follow the link to the thread on angles on the serve.

    3) External shoulder rotation (ESR) is one of the main causes for stretching the ISR muscles - a main goal in the service motion. You do not appear to get much clear ESR during your motion in comparison to high level servers. But this needs careful video comparisons.

    4) Where is this forearm to racket angle in your serve? That angle shows up well when the camera views along the ball's trajectory (cross court) and the serve is a high level serve.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  21. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    Chas,

    Thanks for all of your analysis. I'm going to take it and try to focus on one element at a time. Based on some of the research I was looking at you shared, ISR is one of the most impact movements in the serve that can make a difference in velocity.

    In reviewing several professional players, I noticed that Federedr seemingly has quite a bit less ESR/ISR than someone like Roddick or Monfils. Yet, his placement and consistency of serving are nearly unmatched. I wonder if an extreme amount of ESR/ISR is inversely related to consistency and placement (as the racquet as to travel farther with more room for mechanical errors), or if that Federer just happens to have much better consistency and placement regardless of ESR/ISR.
     
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  22. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Legend

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    I wonder how much ISR rotation the ATP servers use from start to impact, how many degrees? Also, is the total angular movement more important or is the acceleration produced by the pre-stretched ISR muscles? Was it a strong stretch? Estimating the amount of angular arm rotation for each type of serve is not so easy from side camera views. To get the acceleration is probably more difficult than the angular range in degrees. Federer probably uses less than the biggest servers and gets less pace. But understanding what might account for a 10 or 15% pace difference is very difficult and requires more accuracy than is possible from an odd video here and there when you have no control of the experiments.

    One thing about Federer's serve is that his back pain probably affected his serve a few years ago. (2013-2015?) Research his back injury and stay away from videos from those years. His serve is very accurate and he wins one of the highest percentages of his service games.

    Isolating his serve from the rest of his game is in my second priority bucket list......because it's too difficult. On the other hand, I think I caught a video of Cross's predicted closed racket tilt at impact on the kick serve. That's a first priority bucket list item because it's easier to observe given the limited capability of doing experiments with high speed video.

    Look at the ISR leading to impact on the first video clip.


    To do stop action, single frame on Youtube, stop the video and press the "." and "," keys. This camera view is along the hand path, another good camera view for analysis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  23. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    Quickly checked the video...

    And I think, what is common, more than the ISR, with the best servers is the stretch and amount of ESR, which they can produce before the elbow straightens in a serve.

    I remember having taught over 30 years ago, that at the racket drop you should just drop the strings facing your back. But all big servers twists it sideways with full ESR and lot of forearm supination. Some have the wrist also fully extended at the drop.


    ——————————
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  24. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    I think light Shirt guys has better strokes but his footwork is really bad.
     
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  25. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    yes, this is really the biggest issue. before you work on arm Actions and racket path definitely work on unit turn earlier and more to get the Body into the stroke. your arm and racket Action is ok, just not much power because you arm the ball.

    the kinetic chain Needs time to set up and takes a Little longer than arming the ball (that is why you can't take a full swing on the net against a decent passing shot) so you Need to be a Little early to give the Body time to work ahead of the arm.
     
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  26. 2good4U

    2good4U Semi-Pro

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    That's some damn fine hitting.

    Hell, he hits as good as me!
     
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  27. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    Andre has a medium return and then he smokes the short ball.
     
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  28. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    Slowly gettting worse

    0:20
    See how weak this FH seems? Watch frames.
    Your FH arm is not extended. It's bent at 90 degrees.
    I think this where the loss of power comes from.
    It appears you are doing a unit turn.
    I think you are too close to the ball

    0:00
    Toss is not into the court.
    You're falling sideways, not forwards.

    0:14
    You should be stepping towards net after making the guy run.
    Not watching the ball.

    0:23
    Nipples to the net.
    You need to turn shoulders sideways, then turn forward.

    0:44
    You should be stepping towards net after making the guy run.
    Not watching the ball.


    :46
    Ball toss is behind you

    1:05
    Why did his ball go into the net?

    2:44
    This was a perfectly executed S&V by grey.
    Why did he lose the point? Bad volley?
     
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  29. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    Here's a quick vid from playing doubles on Tuesday morning:



    We normally play like 630am-8am, so definitely some flubs thrown in, just casual match play with friends.

    I can't say I look much better (orange shirt), but I've been trying to think about turn my shoulders more on the forehand and tossing the ball more forward on my serves. I tend to lay off my serves more in doubles.
     
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  30. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    Thats some ridicilous and disgusting foot faulting, how about you be more aware of your feet placement?

    I seriously don't get people like you, are you just a ch*ater or are you seriously completely clueless and unaware of anything around you and what your body is doing?
     
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  31. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    You caught me. People tell me that stepping a few inches into the court makes my serve unhittable.
     
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  32. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    This is kind of bad though... You are stepping on the blue

    [​IMG]
     
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  33. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    Like I said, unhittable ace-fest.

    In earnest, I try to pick 1-2 things to work on a day when I'm doing casual match play. The process of tennis improvement never ends, and I've got a lot of catching up to do. I've been trying to focus on some of Chas' suggestions, and the general consensus of unit turning.

    Foot-faulting, while fun to point out pedantically, didn't affect the outcome of any points. In the same way that having a net an inch too low or waiting to flip the coin until after the warm-up are technical violations, they bear no practical significance unless all the athletes are world-class professionals. It's on my to-do list, but wasn't a focus when this video was taken.

    Here are some non-foot fault serves for your pleasure:

     
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  34. Wise one

    Wise one Semi-Pro

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    Almost everyone foot-faults.
     
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  35. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

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    The examples you gave are not equivalent:
    - net too low by an inch may indeed affect the outcome because balls would go over that otherwise wouldn't. It's assumed that the incorrect height will have an equal effect on both players, though.
    - waiting to the flip the coin does not have any effect

    However, you FFing benefits only you, not your opponent. By how much is debatable. If you don't have a big serve and you aren't playing S&V, I'd argue it probably has a negligible effect. It merely opens you up to criticism so the simplest fix is to not FF.

    Kudos to you for posting video. Others have already commented the arm dominance of your FH and the awkward nature of your serve. I think those are great places to start.

    One thing for your opponent in the first video: the reason you keep burning him with the lob is that he's not split-stepping and he's completely running through his ready position and having to go into 180 degree reverse. He needs to learn to arrest his forward momentum.
     
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  36. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    Thanks for watching. I'll definitely remind my buddy some of those strategies to avoid the lob winner.

    Practicing more serves today, still moving my foot forward a bit, but less pronounced:



    To address the net too low - pedantically, the lower net would benefit the person with the lower net clearance on the average shot. The coin flip would benefit a person who theoretically was a slow starter, or who struggled to serve on a different side than they warmed up on. The point was to show the absurdity of the 'benefit'.
     
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  37. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    Thanks for the feedback. Watching myself, I see that many of my FHs get too close to my body. I was playing with my mom over Thanksgiving, and I noticed she did the same thing too! Trying to find the sweetspot, I don't think I'm a straight arm guy like Fed, but I can get straighter.

    Perfect S&V can definitely be screwed up by subpar mental game, which is normally my friend's probably.

    In terms of ball toss, I normally throw my second serve way behind my head. However, I tried to keep the ball toss the same today while I was practicing, so it looked more like my first serve ball toss. Feels pretty good, maybe a little less kick, but overall fine.
     
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  38. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    In the doubles vid the orange shirt guy has a tendency to follow, what his partner is doing in the back court on lobs, especially when changing sides or otherwise slow ball into the back.

    You’d be able to react more quickly by observing your opponents preparing to their shots, for instance, if the guy would prepare for an over head, you’d be able to run backwards a couple steps, if not all the way back, if you had watched towards where your next ball is to be hit from.


    ——————————
    On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
     
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  39. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    In the Flat serve 12.5.17 -clip I think there is very little racket drop, and the therefore the elbow does not fold quite enough and the esr reamain restricted, not by muscles, but due to lack of time.

    I think, if you could slightly change the rythm between your toss and taking back the racket, you’d gain touch more racket drop and the elbow had little more time to drop the fist deeper and more to the inside of your shoulder. The forward motion looks fine, but the minimal drop does not allow the hand accelerate as directly up to hit. Forward isr is not required nor possible, if you have the racket already on the ”outside” of your arm rotation. There is not enough room on the inside of the ball/shoulder line to deploy that arm rotation.


    ——————————
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  40. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    My buddy made another video for your viewing pleasure. I'm grey shirt, green shorts, bald AF.



    I've managed to cut out the footfaults, just for you guys. Managed three winners down the T this morning. Some good points over all.
     
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  41. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    Your footwork and balance need work. Your feet are all over the place with your forehand. Also, you have a tendency drift away from the net when your start at the net. Even if your partner is in a cross court rally, you continue to drift back by a step or two. This opens up the middle of the court for your opponent more.
     
    #41
  42. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    I definitely see the drifting away from the net, very pronounced in this video. I keep telling myself that I can defend more from farther back, but I mostly just field balls at my feet. I'll stand tall more during the next match and see how it goes.

    In terms of footwork, could you be more specific? I looked at my footwork on forehands, and I tended to have my right leg extended out pretty far in sort of an openish stance. However, when a short ball came, I tended to run straight forward and run through the ball while hitting, rather than setting my feet. There were definitely some awkward/bad weight transfers on those short balls. Any recommendations on changes or drills to work on it? What worked for you?
     
    #42
  43. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    Your buddy and opponent’s guy in blue pinstriped shirt have the same tendency following the ball behind their back at the net as the ball passes to the back of the court.

    If the shots were any faster, they would have no time to prep. And even now both are late often, because they don’t have time to pay attention to the opponents net player before the ball is coming back at them.

    Reading the movements of the opp net player, they would have more time to even take few steps backwards, if the opp rises the racket to hit an overhead.

    Better to just trust your partner and see, what the opponent is preparing for.


    ——————————
    On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
     
    #43
  44. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    I might look more into FH, BH, volleys later if I have time and feel like it, don't have much time now, just looked at your serve for a bit.

    You are doing some nice things on your serve, your arm stretched upwards is rly nice and very few people of this level do this.

    There are some glaring issues tho that take away a ton of power, you could get alot more pace and spin if you fixed these few small tweaks.

    I won't go into the push with legs could be better because thats more advanced I think first someone should focus on other fundamentals specialy upper body.

    The most obvious things taking away a ton of power are

    1.Your arm is too extended in throphy pose
    2.Your momentum is going sideways/backwards when serving instead of forward

    Heres showing in pictures, and also Fed for comparison:

    [​IMG]

    The guy with the white/blue shirt does all this the best out of all 4 in this video and its no suprize his serve packs quite a bit more punch than any of the 4.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    #44
  45. Wise one

    Wise one Semi-Pro

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    Why are you guys hitting deep topspin returns of serve, then playing singles?
     
    #45
  46. Tyler-James

    Tyler-James Rookie

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    Yeah, that's something I actually worked on in the current video, based on feedback from the forum. Doubles is kind of new for me, so I appreciate those ideas.

    Thanks for that analysis and picture comparison! The camera angle between the pictures is almost identical, so it's really obvious to see the differences. I actually played today with your thoughts in mind. I mostly focused on tossing the ball more to the right and trying to drive my torso forward as I swung. Not to make you feel good, but I definitely had my best serve performance ever. A buddy and I played for about 2.5 hours, and I had at least 10 aces. I had one ball hit the tarp about 5ft up, which is a first for me. Once I have a practice day, I'll try to film some more to see if my perception matches reality.

    Because it's so much fun! All four of us are singles players, so we tend to wait for the short ball to come in. A couple of guys in our group are doubles specialists, and S&V at almost every opportunity.
     
    #46
  47. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    Too wide trophy is one culprit of golfers elbow, cause the torq in the upper arm and hit. And it slows the racket head down too compared to ”tight and close to body dropped racket”.


    ——————————
    On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
     
    #47
  48. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    I bet.
    You are doing a ton of things right in your serve motion, if you fix these two things, you would make a huge leap.
    Then its just adding a bit more push with ur legs and also having a very very relaxed arm (like a spaghetti).
    And I bet your serve would be huge, just need to practice a ton after that to get a feel for placement and all, technicaly it would be very sound.
     
    #48
  49. Doc Hollidae

    Doc Hollidae Hall of Fame

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    On several returns and when you are on the run your left foot will cross over your right. Also, typically you want to have your right foot behind your left foot when hitting in an open stance forehand, otherwise you can't fully use your kinetic chain.

    Getting prepared earlier to hit the ball should help you, it seems like you are reacting to the shot more than preparing for it. Can't say for sure what worked for me, as I haven't had the same issues necessarily. I hug the baseline and am always looking to more forward in doubles, so it's always been important for me to keep my weight forward and shorten my backswing when necessary. If you can't hold your finish for a few seconds after your stroke, you weren't balanced.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    #49
  50. Wise one

    Wise one Semi-Pro

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    Uhmmmmm........in doubles you don't 'wait for a short ball'. You serve and come in, return and come in. There is no waiting in doubles!
     
    #50

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