9 year old string breaker

[ukD]

Atypical situation I know...

My 9 year old daughter started to break strings on a few day basis and it's getting frustrated and not budget friendly to string it that often.

Playing green dot ball, we used to change multifilament strings every two months, but moving to yellow balls here are the results:

• Wilson Sensation 6-8 hours
• Wilson NXT 7-8 hours
• Techifibre NRG2 (one she like the most) 5-6 hours

They are strung at 48/46 range on 25' Wilson Clash. They are bought in different places, strung with different machines and by different stringers so we can not talk about bad strings or string jobs.

Another thing is that it's always crosses in sweat spot that break.

Didn't think about using polys before she's 12-13 years old but considered using multifilament in mains and Cream or RPM Soft as the cross string. Round as they are I think they will not „eat“ the multifilament main (hope for that even some says otherwise), and as the whole string job act mostly like the main string it might be ok for her health and it will last a month...

Full Head Velocity MLT was another option as it tend to be one of the most durable multi but I'm not sure it will last more than 12 hours...

Any other recommendations?

 

[Lukhas]

Any other recommendations?

The boring obvious one: getting a (second-hand) stringing machine if you don't already have one. A poly hybrid will mitigate the problem for a little while, but as she grows up it's going to get worse really quickly. If she stops playing, resell the machine.

Round as they are I think they will not „eat“ the multifilament main (hope for that even some says otherwise), and as the whole string job act mostly like the main string it might be ok for her health and it will last a month...

Nah, multi mains breaks even faster than multi crosses.

 

[Hansen]

stay away from poly, just go up in gauge. velocity and prince premier control are available in 1.40. no syngut expert but there are 1.40 mm synguts out there i think.
cream in the crosses with a durable multi in the crosses won‘t work, because it is still a poly, which isn‘t good at this age and there is a good chance that cream breaks before the multi mains (that was my experience).

 

[colan5934]

Atypical situation I know...

My 9 year old daughter started to break strings on a few day basis and it's getting frustrated and not budget friendly to string it that often.

Playing green dot ball, we used to change multifilament strings every two months, but moving to yellow balls here are the results:

• Wilson Sensation 6-8 hours
• Wilson NXT 7-8 hours
• Techifibre NRG2 (one she like the most) 5-6 hours

They are strung at 48/46 range on 25' Wilson Clash. They are bought in different places, strung with different machines and by different stringers so we can not talk about bad strings or string jobs.

Another thing is that it's always crosses in sweat spot that break.

Didn't think about using polys before she's 12-13 years old but considered using multifilament in mains and Cream or RPM Soft as the cross string. Round as they are I think they will not „eat“ the multifilament main (hope for that even some says otherwise), and as the whole string job act mostly like the main string it might be ok for her health and it will last a month...

Full Head Velocity MLT was another option as it tend to be one of the most durable multi but I'm not sure it will last more than 12 hours...

Any other recommendations?

Rpm Soft could be worth a try. It’s not poly despite being in their Rpm silo. It’s basically rebranded and slightly changed Origin from what my rep tells me. Origin had a reputation for being soft and powerful with a clean feel. Comparable to premium multis without the propensity for fraying because it’s a single extruded piece. More durable than multi too. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend origin but have not tested rpm soft, so I’m going on word of mouth alone.

Syn gut should also be more durable (and cheap). Or go up in gauge for the multi like some other posters suggested. Could also try to switch her to the 25” pro staff that I believe has a denser pattern than the 25” clash and should reduce breakage frequency.

 

[g4driver]

They are strung at 48/46 range on 25' Wilson Clash. They are bought in different places, strung with different machines and by different stringers so we can not talk about bad strings or string jobs.

Another thing is that it's always crosses in sweat spot that break.

You never mentioned the gauge of the string she is breaking and that's a huge piece of the puzzle you are asking to be solved. She is breaking the crosses as she hits flat. Flat hitters will almost always break crosses, not mains and that is coming from my experience as a stringer.

Any other recommendations?

If using 1.25mm, switch to 1.30mm. If using 1.30mm, switch to 1.35mm PPC or 1.30mm Syn Gut.

In the US, it is nearly impossible to get 1.40mm multis, and even 1.35mm multis are rare. PPC 1.35mm is a great string and a great value without having to move into the Tecnifibre RPX and HDMX price range.

In Europe, it's much easier to find 1.35mm multis and even some in 1.40mm

Prince Premier Control 15L String | Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[veelium]

Just get a thicker gauge. I doubt she can break 1.40 syn gut/multi that easily.

Junior racquets all have very open patterns too from what I've seen, she might break less when she moves to a normal size racquet.

 

[EggSalad]

Agreed on going up a gauge.

The only other thing I’d recommend is Triax 1.33 in the mains and a 1.30 synthetic gut in the cross.

 

[LOBALOT]

When your daughter stands straight up and holds her racquet down to her side does it touch the ground?

If you think she is ready to transition to a regular ball get her out of the 25" racquet (Unless she is extremely small and the question above.). Switch to 26" if you think she is good enough for a regular ball she should be able to handle a regular racquet.

I agree RE the question on gauges and also question if you are getting 48 lbs on that racquet or if too much string deflection of the mains is flattening the crosses.

 

[ukD]

Thanks all for the replies...

Still don't have a stringing machine...

The gauge of all, except Sensation, were 17 so maybe Velocity at 1.30 or Price Premier Control at 1.35 will solve the problem and get her at least month/month and a half of play...

She is really small at 4'5/133cm and 55lbs/25kg so usually when she plays comments are always from where she gets all the power... her hand is thin as the 0 racquet handle hahaha

No way she can handle 27 size it looks and feels ridiculous in her hands but we are moving to 26 size... still debating between VCore, Ultra and Boom...

About breaking cross it's not due to flat shots because she hit with lot of spin due to her western grip... at 7 she used the extreme one and we are slowly moving to the semi western...

 

[g4driver]

Thanks all for the replies...

The gauge of all, except Sensation, were 17 so maybe Velocity at 1.30 or Price Premier Control at 1.35 will solve the problem and get her at least month/month and a half of play...



About breaking cross it's not due to flat shots because she hit with lot of spin due to her western grip... at 7 she used the extreme one and we are slowly moving to the semi western...

1.25mm multis are your problem. Her grip doesn't matter. A multifilament's purpose in life is to fray and break. That is what they do.

I've strung 8000+ frames in the last seven years. Any club or stringer who continued to put 1.25mm multis in your daughter's frame when you were telling them she is breaking it as quickly as you state she does did you a great disservice.

 

[TennisJrDad]

I would second the suggestion of RPM Soft in 1.30 or you could go a less expensive route and stick with any number of good SynGuts at 1.30.

I am curious what results you will see moving up from 1.25 to 1.30.

Thanks all for the replies...

Still don't have a stringing machine...

The gauge of all, except Sensation, were 17 so maybe Velocity at 1.30 or Price Premier Control at 1.35 will solve the problem and get her at least month/month and a half of play...

She is really small at 4'5/133cm and 55lbs/25kg so usually when she plays comments are always from where she gets all the power... her hand is thin as the 0 racquet handle hahaha

No way she can handle 27 size it looks and feels ridiculous in her hands but we are moving to 26 size... still debating between VCore, Ultra and Boom...

About breaking cross it's not due to flat shots because she hit with lot of spin due to her western grip... at 7 she used the extreme one and we are slowly moving to the semi western...

 

[ChanterRacquet]

Only had a half set left in a reel of NRG2 so convinced my son to try a hybrid with Yonex Poly Tour Fire crosses (55/48) and he preferentially played that over his other racquet with the usual FB of NRG2. Said he got even more spin. He’s 13, FX 500.

Our whole family plays FB NXT, NRG2, or Multifeel and always break the cross first. Everyone always comments on our top spin and you can see where the mains just rub the crosses down so I don’t know where breaking mains from top spin comes from. I think it’s a poly thing.

 

[g4driver]

Only had a half set left in a reel of NRG2 so convinced my son to try a hybrid with Yonex Poly Tour Fire crosses (55/48) and he preferentially played that over his other racquet with the usual FB of NRG2. Said he got even more spin. He’s 13, FX 500.

That's normal as he isn't playing with a full bed of NRG2 and the slick poly crosses of YPTF with the silicone coating is going to allow the NRG2 mains to move more freely over the YPTF crosses. than the NRG2 crosses

Our whole family plays FB NXT, NRG2, or Multifeel and always break the cross first. Everyone always comments on our top spin and you can see where the mains just rub the crosses down so I don’t know where breaking mains from top spin comes from. I think it’s a poly thing.

From my .02 as a stringer who strings from beginners to former Division 1 players, and not reading or speculating on a forum, but seeing frames come in with broken strings, specifically with hybrids, the thinnest and/or softest string will almost always break first.

@Wes explains this very nicely.

It's not a poly thing. It's the way the strings deflect, dent and break down. Some people on this forum think they hit a lot of topspin as they are comparing themselves to their counterparts. But who are they comparing themselves to? Other low-level 3.0 to 3.5 players who hit slightly flatter than them?

This player hits a lot of topspin. I created an entire thread about him and his elbow.

https://imgur.com/VQbCpPK

Many players who grew up in the 1970s tend to hit flat and break crosses, specifically synthetic gut. For players who broke strings rather quickly, many would use Prince Pro Blend.

Prince ProBlend String Review - Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com

If I put a full bed of 1.32mm NRG2 in a frame of an under 50-year-old 4.0C to 5.0C male player, 99% of them are going to break the NRG2 mains first. Why? watch the video @Wes posted. If I put that same full bed of a multifilament string in some 65-year-old 4.0C who grew up hitting flat, and still hits flat, that cross is going to break.

When I find an under 50-year-old male player breaking the crosses first, watching them hit reveals they hit flat compared to their teammates. For some strange reason, some people on this forum tend to get defensive or offended by it when it is merely an observation. Flat hitting was the norm for a long time in tennis, then wooden frames gave way to graphite in the early 80s.

The Evolution of Tennis -

Perhaps no other sport has experienced the kinds of changes that tennis has in the last 30-40 years. If someone were to have taken a time machine from the

www.essentialtennis.com

Why You Need Topspin In Tennis - TopspinPro

Topspin is crucial to all areas of your tennis game. Here's why you need topspin no matter your level of tennis.

topspinpro.com

I just don't find full beds of a multifilament that break in the crosses until I get to a very specific subset of players:
a) the small group of 3.5 to 4.5 women who actually break strings
b) 3.5 to 4.5 guys who don't hit much topspin.

Does that make them bad players? Hardly. I've been schooled by flat hitters as have many on this forum. This blog isn't mind, but he writes about the same thing I am describing.

"Notching always happens on the string that moves, not on the ones that stay still."

Breaking Cross Strings

Most tennis players severely notch or break their main strings. That is due to the main strings' movement from topspin shots. A rare few b...

unorthodoxstringing.blogspot.com

 

[g4driver]

Thanks @Wes

Always appreciate your videos

 

[BillKid]

As a rule we all know that poly strings should not be used in children. However, in a case like this, do you think a string like Isospeed cream or HyperG soft 18g at low tension could be a safe option? If you take a look at the stiffness index, it’s really low compared to most poly strings. And durability is way higher than any multi or SG.

 

[Hawks9451]

Triax 128 or Rip Control

 

[mctennis]

As a rule we all know that poly strings should not be used in children. However, in a case like this, do you think a string like Isospeed cream or HyperG soft 18g at low tension could be a safe option? If you take a look at the stiffness index, it’s really low compared to most poly strings. And durability is way higher than any multi or SG.

Wouldn't the 18g break faster since it is a thinner gauge?

 

[jimmy8]

Don't use poly. Poly has to be replaced every 8-10 hours because it loses tension and it's stretchiness (becomes dead), your arm and your health take a beating if you keep playing with it after 10 hours.

I have a reel of 1.40 head velocity in yellow. I only used about 3 sets. I'll send you a few sets to try out, just send me your address, if it's in the US, I'll mail it to you. I won't charge you anything. If you like it, I'll send you the rest of the reel for a deal.

 

[Wes]

Hey @jimmy8, I may be interested in your remaining reel of 1.40 Velocity.
Please shoot me a PM/Conversation.
I attempted starting one w/ you, however, you don't have your "Conversation" option enabled.

Cheers, Wes

 

[AmericanTwist]

Took me 2 sessions to break 16g multifeel and what surprised me was that the crosses broke first. I believe that mains almost always break first but it is not always the case. My buddy broke Kbaum max power 16 cross first. The mains were Klip 15L and they were just a little notched. I was amazed!

Even though your daughter uses 17g I am a bit skeptical that she breaks those strings so quickly especially on a 25" frame. I question whether the string jobs were faulty/sabotaged. Like other posters have said go one gauge thicker or maybe two (16L, 16, 15L). I also suggest trying a new stringer to test my theory. If all checks out the other choice is to use solid core syn gut. I don't use multi because it doesn't last at all and drops tension quickly. I use syn gut, natural gut, and lately I've been experimenting with poly. Let us know how it goes.

 

[2ndServe]

String savers is the fastest and cheapest solution here.

 

[ChanterRacquet]

"Notching always happens on the string that moves, not on the ones that stay still."

I’m going to put forth my own theory that is not in contradiction to what you have presented regarding top spin and mains breaking, but recognizes why other top spin players break crosses instead with a different reason for why mains break for some and crosses break for others.

TLDR: those that break mains can hit the crap out of the ball, so the notching gives in first; those that break crosses first can’t/don’t hit the ball hard enough to notch quickly and so the fraying of the crosses causes them to break first. Both notching of the mains and fraying of the crosses are consequences of the mains sliding over the crosses due to top spin imparting strokes.

Long version of how I came to this conclusion:

My wife played in college and I’ve spent the last 17 years of marriage playing catch up to her level (4.5). She remembers breaking mains back in her heyday. In high school she practiced with the boys frequently because her game matched theirs more than the girls’. In all these years playing against me she predominantly breaks crosses first (FB NXT 16 for the most part save for the last few years that I’ve been stringing and experimenting). NXT only lasts her a couple weeks in her old Ti.Radical OS and now v7 104.

If you look at the wear pattern, as you say the mains notch. But the crosses are wearing down too but in a different way, they fray as the motion of the mains slide across them. The mains are sliding across the crosses because considerable top spin is being imparted.

Now the question, which breaks first and why?

It’s taken me almost two decades but I’m starting to be able to give my wife a run for her money. No more easy short balls to put away. The ball is getting hit fairly hard in both directions now. Yesterday, instead of breaking the middle cross, she broke a center main. Looking at the wear pattern, the mains break looks just like you could have cut them with scissors, it notches straight across. The middle cross is half-way frayed, wild hairy filaments everywhere, but still about half of the filaments are intact.

So how do reconcile people with top spin breaking mains versus people with top spin breaking crosses?

It’s a war of attrition brought on by the top spin but also how hard the ball is being hit. To say people who break crosses first hit flat…well, why? You’d be hitting mains and crosses equally with a flat stroke; it should be random what you break first.

The reason high-level players break mains and lower level players are more likely to break crosses with both imparting top spin simply boils down to power, and has naught to do with different amounts of top spin.

The 9 year old daughter of the OP has top spin, I bet, but not the power to quickly notch through the mains. So the crosses wear through one filament at a time faster than the mains are notched.

My wife hasn’t needed to power the ball to kick my @$$ until recently and what’s the first thing to happen? Breaks a main again like in high school/college.

Yeah that 5.0 male breaks a main and has top spin, but the mains break because he’s hitting the absolute sh** out of the ball, cuts right through the main, yes because of sliding but also because of sheer force.

Doesn’t mean someone who breaks multi crosses isn’t hitting with top spin. My strings rainbow all in the same direction when they lose too much tension and fail to snap back (that was my signal to cut out VCT and actually why I’m thinking of dropping PPC and heading back to multifeel). That ball is definitely spinning with top spin, you can’t tell me I’m imagining it when I can see it. I’ve league opponents tell me they struggle with the top spin I put on the ball (I’ve made it to a measly 3.5 the last couple years, so sure some of them hit flat). But my paltry 140 lbs 5’11” frame, with tennis elbow just can’t smash the ball like guys who grew up playing tennis can. So I notch my mains a bit, scrape away at the cross filaments, and the crosses go first as the mains fray them into oblivion sliding back and forth over them as I impart top spin.

 

[BillKid]

Don't use poly. Poly has to be replaced every 8-10 hours because it loses tension and it's stretchiness (becomes dead), your arm and your health take a beating if you keep playing with it after 10 hours.

I have a reel of 1.40 head velocity in yellow. I only used about 3 sets. I'll send you a few sets to try out, just send me your address, if it's in the US, I'll mail it to you. I won't charge you anything. If you like it, I'll send you the rest of the reel for a deal.

I was thinking about HyperG Soft because it has a reallly good tension maintenance compared other polys I have tried. I’m used to 17g and I have not tried 18g yet but it’s on my to demo list (my racquet has a 18x20 string pattern). What I can say is that 17g is pretty durable, much more than Triax 16g that I recently tested. As you may know Triax is supposed to be a particularly resistant multi, but I found it to be much less durable and resistant than HyperG Soft, without being really any softer.
My conclusion is that HyperG Soft is the best compromise I've found between comfort and durability. That said, it's probably still too stiff for a child, which is why I was asking the question but can't recommend it.

 

[K1Y]

Atypical situation I know...

My 9 year old daughter started to break strings on a few day basis and it's getting frustrated and not budget friendly to string it that often.

Playing green dot ball, we used to change multifilament strings every two months, but moving to yellow balls here are the results:

• Wilson Sensation 6-8 hours
• Wilson NXT 7-8 hours
• Techifibre NRG2 (one she like the most) 5-6 hours

They are strung at 48/46 range on 25' Wilson Clash. They are bought in different places, strung with different machines and by different stringers so we can not talk about bad strings or string jobs.

Another thing is that it's always crosses in sweat spot that break.

Didn't think about using polys before she's 12-13 years old but considered using multifilament in mains and Cream or RPM Soft as the cross string. Round as they are I think they will not „eat“ the multifilament main (hope for that even some says otherwise), and as the whole string job act mostly like the main string it might be ok for her health and it will last a month...

Full Head Velocity MLT was another option as it tend to be one of the most durable multi but I'm not sure it will last more than 12 hours...

Any other recommendations?

if you switch to poly you have to restring every 8 hours too

 

[g4driver]

@ChanterRacquet

If you are breaking crosses first, the easiest solution is to use a thicker cross of the same string. While that might take an extra 3 feet of string and instead of doing a one-piece string it is a two-piece, it gives your strings a longer life.

 

[dyslexical-scope]

Short stature, western grip, powerful hitting
Dealing with yellow balls and playing against other juniors who can deliver topspin (or at least moonball)
I'm gonna guess she has a pretty high contact point on the forehand side, above the shoulder level at least
Those racquet head high contacts don't strike quite as "true" across the stringbed with the ball going perpendicular across the mains, instead going more diagonally over the stringbed
Creates a different balance of wear across the mains and crosses

If what I've guessed is correct then...
In my opinion the matter of mains vs cross breaking is just an interesting curiosity
Good news is as she develops her technique and physique she'll start breaking mains instead
Bad news is those mains are going to snap even faster
She's a string breaker and always will be

 

[veelium]

I’m going to put forth my own theory that is not in contradiction to what you have presented regarding top spin and mains breaking, but recognizes why other top spin players break crosses instead with a different reason for why mains break for some and crosses break for others.

TLDR: those that break mains can hit the crap out of the ball, so the notching gives in first; those that break crosses first can’t/don’t hit the ball hard enough to notch quickly and so the fraying of the crosses causes them to break first. Both notching of the mains and fraying of the crosses are consequences of the mains sliding over the crosses due to top spin imparting strokes.

Long version of how I came to this conclusion:

My wife played in college and I’ve spent the last 17 years of marriage playing catch up to her level (4.5). She remembers breaking mains back in her heyday. In high school she practiced with the boys frequently because her game matched theirs more than the girls’. In all these years playing against me she predominantly breaks crosses first (FB NXT 16 for the most part save for the last few years that I’ve been stringing and experimenting). NXT only lasts her a couple weeks in her old Ti.Radical OS and now v7 104.

If you look at the wear pattern, as you say the mains notch. But the crosses are wearing down too but in a different way, they fray as the motion of the mains slide across them. The mains are sliding across the crosses because considerable top spin is being imparted.

Now the question, which breaks first and why?

It’s taken me almost two decades but I’m starting to be able to give my wife a run for her money. No more easy short balls to put away. The ball is getting hit fairly hard in both directions now. Yesterday, instead of breaking the middle cross, she broke a center main. Looking at the wear pattern, the mains break looks just like you could have cut them with scissors, it notches straight across. The middle cross is half-way frayed, wild hairy filaments everywhere, but still about half of the filaments are intact.

So how do reconcile people with top spin breaking mains versus people with top spin breaking crosses?

It’s a war of attrition brought on by the top spin but also how hard the ball is being hit. To say people who break crosses first hit flat…well, why? You’d be hitting mains and crosses equally with a flat stroke; it should be random what you break first.

The reason high-level players break mains and lower level players are more likely to break crosses with both imparting top spin simply boils down to power, and has naught to do with different amounts of top spin.

The 9 year old daughter of the OP has top spin, I bet, but not the power to quickly notch through the mains. So the crosses wear through one filament at a time faster than the mains are notched.

My wife hasn’t needed to power the ball to kick my @$$ until recently and what’s the first thing to happen? Breaks a main again like in high school/college.

Yeah that 5.0 male breaks a main and has top spin, but the mains break because he’s hitting the absolute sh** out of the ball, cuts right through the main, yes because of sliding but also because of sheer force.

Doesn’t mean someone who breaks multi crosses isn’t hitting with top spin. My strings rainbow all in the same direction when they lose too much tension and fail to snap back (that was my signal to cut out VCT and actually why I’m thinking of dropping PPC and heading back to multifeel). That ball is definitely spinning with top spin, you can’t tell me I’m imagining it when I can see it. I’ve league opponents tell me they struggle with the top spin I put on the ball (I’ve made it to a measly 3.5 the last couple years, so sure some of them hit flat). But my paltry 140 lbs 5’11” frame, with tennis elbow just can’t smash the ball like guys who grew up playing tennis can. So I notch my mains a bit, scrape away at the cross filaments, and the crosses go first as the mains fray them into oblivion sliding back and forth over them as I impart top spin.

Well put

 

[colan5934]

That's normal as he isn't playing with a full bed of NRG2 and the slick poly crosses of YPTF with the silicone coating is going to allow the NRG2 mains to move more freely over the YPTF crosses. than the NRG2 crosses


From my .02 as a stringer who strings from beginners to former Division 1 players, and not reading or speculating on a forum, but seeing frames come in with broken strings, specifically with hybrids, the thinnest and/or softest string will almost always break first.

@Wes explains this very nicely.

It's not a poly thing. It's the way the strings deflect, dent and break down. Some people on this forum think they hit a lot of topspin as they are comparing themselves to their counterparts. But who are they comparing themselves to? Other low-level 3.0 to 3.5 players who hit slightly flatter than them?

This player hits a lot of topspin. I created an entire thread about him and his elbow.

https://imgur.com/VQbCpPK

Many players who grew up in the 1970s tend to hit flat and break crosses, specifically synthetic gut. For players who broke strings rather quickly, many would use Prince Pro Blend.

Prince ProBlend String Review - Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com

If I put a full bed of 1.32mm NRG2 in a frame of an under 50-year-old 4.0C to 5.0C male player, 99% of them are going to break the NRG2 mains first. Why? watch the video @Wes posted. If I put that same full bed of a multifilament string in some 65-year-old 4.0C who grew up hitting flat, and still hits flat, that cross is going to break.

When I find an under 50-year-old male player breaking the crosses first, watching them hit reveals they hit flat compared to their teammates. For some strange reason, some people on this forum tend to get defensive or offended by it when it is merely an observation. Flat hitting was the norm for a long time in tennis, then wooden frames gave way to graphite in the early 80s.

The Evolution of Tennis -

Perhaps no other sport has experienced the kinds of changes that tennis has in the last 30-40 years. If someone were to have taken a time machine from the

www.essentialtennis.com

Why You Need Topspin In Tennis - TopspinPro

Topspin is crucial to all areas of your tennis game. Here's why you need topspin no matter your level of tennis.

topspinpro.com

I just don't find full beds of a multifilament that break in the crosses until I get to a very specific subset of players:
a) the small group of 3.5 to 4.5 women who actually break strings
b) 3.5 to 4.5 guys who don't hit much topspin.

Does that make them bad players? Hardly. I've been schooled by flat hitters as have many on this forum. This blog isn't mind, but he writes about the same thing I am describing.

"Notching always happens on the string that moves, not on the ones that stay still."

Breaking Cross Strings

Most tennis players severely notch or break their main strings. That is due to the main strings' movement from topspin shots. A rare few b...

unorthodoxstringing.blogspot.com

I’d agree with basically all of this. As would general physics principles and USRSA/MRT standards and exams.

Example: two of my students (11 and 12 utr) exclusively break crosses in 18x20 blades with full bed Lynx tour. They hit quite flat for juniors, ands that is likely why.

Breaking crosses is associated with flat hitting. They’re hitting some spin but not enough to really notch the mains deeply. They do flatten out the crosses which will eventually give way. If I were to put a syn gut or multi in, that would usually go first. Some of the softer polys will break first with the heavily coated syn guts in the cross, but it depends on the player and how much spin they’re hitting and how consistently they’re hitting the same spot on the stringbed.

 

[J B]

I’d agree with basically all of this. As would general physics principles and USRSA/MRT standards and exams.

Example: two of my students (11 and 12 utr) exclusively break crosses in 18x20 blades with full bed Lynx tour. They hit quite flat for juniors, ands that is likely why.

Breaking crosses is associated with flat hitting. They’re hitting some spin but not enough to really notch the mains deeply. They do flatten out the crosses which will eventually give way. If I were to put a syn gut or multi in, that would usually go first. Some of the softer polys will break first with the heavily coated syn guts in the cross, but it depends on the player and how much spin they’re hitting and how consistently they’re hitting the same spot on the stringbed.

Yup… people hate this fact bc they want to hit with topspin. The stringer that taught me to string used to be a pro stringer. He traveled with a hitting pro. In the modern game even as of 5+ years ago WTA players are not hitting with crazy heavy spin. Sure they windshield wiper but that’s not how you really hit topspin. Iga is great at that and is Destroying people.

anyways the hitting “ex line 1 d1 major school” pro will tell you the WTA girls cannot handle spin. To the point he said if ONE could figure how to hit real topspin. Arm fully extended driving it… where it accelerates off the bounce and higher than it came in instead of s big bounce that floats at that top,.,,, that girl would rule the WTA. Enter Iga who doesn’t do that but hits with the second version.. she’s ruling the WTA.
all that to say if women, even ex D1 players could hit with all this spin they’d be on tour… not on a public hard court.

My experience was similar. I was asked to hit as a tryout for a hitting pro for a d1 female looking to go pro. She couldn’t handle heavy driving spin. Her only winner was a curling backhand slice when I slowed it down for her. She thanked me and said we are too different of hitters for her.
Im not saying I was better she was way fitter and could have broken me down if we played a match but her point was valid.

again mains break from spin. Cross break from flat and under spin. Doesn’t make you a bad player. The best WTA players in the world including the hall of famer I mentioned above… all won with flat shots

 

[colan5934]

Yup… people hate this fact bc they want to hit with topspin. The stringer that taught me to string used to be a pro stringer. He traveled with a hitting pro. In the modern game even as of 5+ years ago WTA players are not hitting with crazy heavy spin. Sure they windshield wiper but that’s not how you really hit topspin. Iga is great at that and is Destroying people.

anyways the hitting “ex line 1 d1 major school” pro will tell you the WTA girls cannot handle spin. To the point he said if ONE could figure how to hit real topspin. Arm fully extended driving it… where it accelerates off the bounce and higher than it came in instead of s big bounce that floats at that top,.,,, that girl would rule the WTA. Enter Iga who doesn’t do that but hits with the second version.. she’s ruling the WTA.
all that to say if women, even ex D1 players could hit with all this spin they’d be on tour… not on a public hard court.

My experience was similar. I was asked to hit as a tryout for a hitting pro for a d1 female looking to go pro. She couldn’t handle heavy driving spin. Her only winner was a curling backhand slice when I slowed it down for her. She thanked me and said we are too different of hitters for her.
Im not saying I was better she was way fitter and could have broken me down if we played a match but her point was valid.

again mains break from spin. Cross break from flat and under spin. Doesn’t make you a bad player. The best WTA players in the world including the hall of famer I mentioned above… all won with flat shots

Absolutely. I’ve been around that too. A good friend’s coach used to coach a top-30 WTA player and we both trained with her. Another friend coaches a girl who floats from 90-150 on the tour. I've hit with both WTA pros, and they do not hit the heavy spin that D1 guys can produce. Is the ball flat, fast, and deep? Yes. If I could get it up after the bounce, though, I'd be ahead in the point. And that's not even with serves. I was much better at that time...probably wouldn't have beaten the top-30 girl then if we played. But I've played top-30 D1 guys, and that ball is significantly harder to handle than the WTA players' shots. It skips through the bounce and is effortlessly heavy. High if necessary. The best players in the world get the ball deep and high with high racquet head speed. Just look at how dominant Rafa has been on the forehand for years.

"Windshield wiper" when taught in isolation is mostly useless anyway. The arm will naturally rotate internally from the shoulder when it has no more room to extend (see nearly all male pros). Forcing that internal rotation too early, while it might add spin, robs the shot of speed and spin you get from extension and racquet head speed. Can you add some extra rotation and finish a bit lower than the shoulder like Gonzalez and Fed do when they want some extra dip on the ball? Sure. But that's an augmentation to proper extension and technique, not a facet of it. Plus, Iga's super western grip limits her followthrough and extension and causes her racquet to finish a bit low anyway. You likely understand this, but I'm assuming most of the board doesn't. Iga wins because she hits the ball in and deep more than the rest of the tour and probably is the best mover. She also seems to manage her emotions better than the rest of the tour when going through pressure and the ebbs and flows of a match. A bit sad that's all it takes now. No more Serena/Venus with huge first serves and flat bombs off both wings, Barty who was an exceptional tactician with great spin on serve, Osaka basically a mini-Serena, etc.

But yeah, rant over. You're totally right on mains generally breaking because of topspin and crosses breaking from flat/slice hitters. I used gut/element as a hybrid in a weighted Clash 100 when I was struggling with a wrist injury. Playing exclusively doubles (serves, returns, chips, volleys), I snapped the element first consistently. Got about 3 hours out of a stringjob. When I could switch back to singles, the gut was gone in about 45 minutes. The element sliced right through it as the mains slid back and forth trading topspin groundstrokes.

 

[Vicious49]

Yup… people hate this fact bc they want to hit with topspin. The stringer that taught me to string used to be a pro stringer. He traveled with a hitting pro. In the modern game even as of 5+ years ago WTA players are not hitting with crazy heavy spin. Sure they windshield wiper but that’s not how you really hit topspin. Iga is great at that and is Destroying people.

anyways the hitting “ex line 1 d1 major school” pro will tell you the WTA girls cannot handle spin. To the point he said if ONE could figure how to hit real topspin. Arm fully extended driving it… where it accelerates off the bounce and higher than it came in instead of s big bounce that floats at that top,.,,, that girl would rule the WTA. Enter Iga who doesn’t do that but hits with the second version.. she’s ruling the WTA.
all that to say if women, even ex D1 players could hit with all this spin they’d be on tour… not on a public hard court.

My experience was similar. I was asked to hit as a tryout for a hitting pro for a d1 female looking to go pro. She couldn’t handle heavy driving spin. Her only winner was a curling backhand slice when I slowed it down for her. She thanked me and said we are too different of hitters for her.
Im not saying I was better she was way fitter and could have broken me down if we played a match but her point was valid.

again mains break from spin. Cross break from flat and under spin. Doesn’t make you a bad player. The best WTA players in the world including the hall of famer I mentioned above… all won with flat shots

One of the YT vids I watched said the biggest muscle difference between men and women is the forearms. Women can bulk up their biceps but not their forearms and that is what is needed to hit an ATP style forehand. Basically they don't have the build and muscle to hit with that type of spin. I'm not at that level where I can say it's true or not but it sounded like a logical explanation to me.

 

[colan5934]

One of the YT vids I watched said the biggest muscle difference between men and women is the forearms. Women can bulk up their biceps but not their forearms and that is what is needed to hit an ATP style forehand. Basically they don't have the build and muscle to hit with that type of spin. I'm not at that level where I can say it's true or not but it sounded like a logical explanation to me.

This is absolutely false. Women can bulk up their forearms if they train them…forearm muscles or biceps muscles, it’s still muscle. Power and racquet head speed initiates from the legs anyway where the bigger, more explosive muscles are. Our tiny (in comparison) little forearm muscles aren’t even the main movers for the upper body. That would be the larger muscles deltoid and pec. Does the forearm get tired? Yes. But that’s because it is eccentrically active when the racquet decelerates which requires more work than concentric contraction.

However, men tend to have and build more muscle more easily AND have more type 2 (fast twitch) in proportion to type 1 fibers than women do, so the male ceiling for explosiveness and power is usually higher. This is more likely to explain the difference between spin rates for men and women at the highest levels of the game. It’s also part of why men usually run faster, jump higher, lift heavier, etc than women.

 

[BillKid]

again mains break from spin. Cross break from flat and under spin.

Funny you mention this because I just tried Triax and was a bit surprised to see that crosses frayed faster than mains and I ended up breaking a cross. Usually I always break a main, never a cross. Do you think there is a reason for this? Is it a matter of (multi) string? Just curious.
I mostly hit with topspin, although my OHBH is flatter than my FH. I’m usually using poly strings.

Btw if anyone is interested by my review of Triax:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/technifibre-triax.728876/post-17422352

 

[what_army]

Lol at this thread. The only way a 9 year old girl breaks strings on a 25” racquet playing green dot balls in 6h is if she’s hitting stones after practice.

 

[BillKid]

Wouldn't the 18g break faster since it is a thinner gauge?

Not sure. Actually I did not try but as I mentioned in another post, I have a positive experience with 17G, which provides me excellent durability. I was thinking the gap between 17 and 18g may not be huge, but I cannot tell. It may also depend on the string pattern.

 

[ukD]

Lol at this thread. The only way a 9 year old girl breaks strings on a 25” racquet playing green dot balls in 6h is if she’s hitting stones after practice.

I think I wrote clearly that she started to break strings after she moved to yellow ball from green dot balls...

 

[colan5934]

I think I wrote clearly that she started to break strings after she moved to yellow ball from green dot balls...

That can be a giant difference. Sorry for detracting from your original question. But thicker gauges and/or syn gut would provide more durability without going poly. Reels of 1.30-1.35 syn gut are around $40 too. RPM soft should provide better durability too but it’s expensive and you’ll get about the same mileage with syn gut.

If you want to go this route, buying a cheap drop-weight stringer and learning to do a consistent job would soon pay for itself if she’s going through strings that quickly. You could teach her to string too if you think tennis is going to be part of her life for awhile.

 

[colan5934]

Funny you mention this because I just tried Triax and was a bit surprised to see that crosses frayed faster than mains and I ended up breaking a cross. Usually I always break a main, never a cross. Do you think there is a reason for this? Is it a matter of (multi) string? Just curious.
I mostly hit with topspin, although my OHBH is flatter than my FH. I’m usually using poly strings.

Btw if anyone is interested by my review of Triax:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/technifibre-triax.728876/post-17422352

So flat hitters breaking crosses and topspin breaking mains is a general rule. Not an end-all-be-all.

With hybrids or strings that fray, crosses are sometimes more likely to go. It’s possible triax’s lower stiffness inhibits notching of the mains a bit. So once the coating starts to go from mains sliding on crosses they’re going to go faster and not be able to notch the mains further. I see this with multi too. Poly crosses don’t have the ability to fray, so they flatten out and keep notching the poly main over time. Out of curiosity, how long does it take you to break your normal setup?

It’s usually indicative of somebody who doesn’t use enough racquet head speed to generate topspin AND pace at the same time for a truly heavy ball. It could be a result of swing path too.

I see it with young juniors and recreational adults all the time. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just the way it goes. If you’re getting enough racquet head speed to produce a fast and spin-loaded ball you’ll notch right through the mains in an hour or less before the crosses have a chance to fray with softer strings.

 

[BillKid]

So flat hitters breaking crosses and topspin breaking mains is a general rule. Not an end-all-be-all.

Out of curiosity, how long does it take you to break your normal setup?

It’s usually indicative of somebody who doesn’t use enough racquet head speed to generate topspin AND pace at the same time for a truly heavy ball. It could be a result of swing path too.

Until recently I was breaking poly after around 10 hours (always mains, never crosses) with a 16x19 or 16x20. Since I switch to a 18x20 recently it takes longer, around 15 hours.
However Triax lasted only 5 hours.
I think I have decent RHS on my FH (not ATP level obviously) but for sure I’m lacking RHS on my OHBH. Thanks for your insightful comments.

 

[ChanterRacquet]

Breaking crosses is associated with flat hitting.

But yeah, rant over. You're totally right on mains generally breaking because of topspin and crosses breaking from flat/slice hitters.

So flat hitters breaking crosses and topspin breaking mains is a general rule. Not an end-all-be-all.

With hybrids or strings that fray, crosses are sometimes more likely to go. It’s possible triax’s lower stiffness inhibits notching of the mains a bit. So once the coating starts to go from mains sliding on crosses they’re going to go faster and not be able to notch the mains further. I see this with multi too. Poly crosses don’t have the ability to fray, so they flatten out and keep notching the poly main over time. Out of curiosity, how long does it take you to break your normal setup?

It’s usually indicative of somebody who doesn’t use enough racquet head speed to generate topspin AND pace at the same time for a truly heavy ball. It could be a result of swing path too.

What a remarkable turnaround in the same thread.

I’m going to put forth my own theory that is not in contradiction to what you have presented regarding top spin and mains breaking, but recognizes why other top spin players break crosses instead with a different reason for why mains break for some and crosses break for others.

TLDR: those that break mains can hit the crap out of the ball, so the notching gives in first; those that break crosses first can’t/don’t hit the ball hard enough to notch quickly and so the fraying of the crosses causes them to break first. Both notching of the mains and fraying of the crosses are consequences of the mains sliding over the crosses due to top spin imparting strokes.

Many on here state that those who play with top spin break the mains because the mains notch as they slide against the crosses. No argument, makes sense.

They then claim, by extension, if you are breaking crosses first, you must be hitting flat. But that’s an extrapolation that isn’t necessarily physically justifiable. If you truly hit nothing but flat, I’m imagining that you’d get a 50/50 split of breaking mains and crosses.

So, without explaining why mains break with top spin and then assuming you can just flip the coin over and equate flat hitting with crosses breaking, what physical explanation would justify the claim that ALWAYS breaking crosses first is indicative of flat hitting?

My claim is that always breaking MULTIFILAMENT crosses first is also indicative of top spin, the mains notching while the crosses are fraying are both a consequence of mains sliding over crosses and it’s a race to see which gives first. If you hit hard, you’ll notch faster and the mains break first. If you hit less hard, fraying of the crosses takes them out first. I am willing to bet this also correlates with how long a full bed of multi lasts for various top spin players. FB multi lasts you 1 hour, hell yeah you broke through those mains, you’re hitting the crap out of the ball. 2 weeks (with lots of playing), yeah you wore right through those crosses hitting top spin as the mains slide over those filaments over and over again. Of course with poly, you’re unlikely to break the crosses because they wear down and flatten as opposed to breaking tiny strands, but the mains are still notching so you always break the mains first with poly.

 

[g4driver]

@conan5934

It's disappointing many people on this forum (not specific to this thread) don't accept the mere concept of flat-hitting breaking crosses. There are multiple MRTs and teaching pros on this forum who state they witness their clients hitting flat and their clients typically break crosses first. @Wes made two videos explaining what is happening.

I have a 4.5A (appeal down from 5.0C) client who played Div 1 tennis who breaks 1.30mm poly crosses in his Pure Control Tour 16x20 frames that weighs 374 grams. I've posted his name, USTA record, and pictures of his frames with the 374 grams on this board before so there is no need to redo that. @MisterP knows this player well and there are others on this board in various cities who have hit against him. There is a reason he was bumped to 5.0 and it wasn't because of his topspin. He's just a fast very consistent player who hits a driving low ball. I don't think he hits flat, I know he hits flat. I've hit with him and against him many times in Combo. Same for the 3.5 player who breaks 1.40mm PPC in his crosses and another 4.5C who breaks 1.38mm Triax in their crosses.

There is a lady I hit against who plays for the USTA National Team who has over 50 Gold Balls and hits with Babolat Syn Gut. She was the #1 ranked female in the world at 50 in singles and doubles, #1 ranked female player in the world at 55 in singles and doubles. Guess what? She hits pretty flat and she breaks mains and crosses.

I've restrung many a frame with broken multifilament crosses and poly crosses. Some players break mains on occasion and break crosses at other times, like myself. I have a naturally flat swing and I know it. For clients who hit with heavy topspin, they never seem to break a cross or if they do, it is a rare event. I started stringing because I was breaking multis too quickly. I've learned a lot along the way thanks to some great local MRTs / Stringing Pros, and multiple generous Pro Stringers on this forum. It matters not what string your break if you're having fun, enjoying tennis, and staying injury free. My goal is to provide clients with strings that make them achieve their very best while keeping them healthy and not breaking their piggy banks. Players come in all shapes and sizes and there are string setups that can help them. Knowing what is happening with your string setups is the first step at making them more suitable to your game.

Happy Father's Day to all you Dads out there! Go enjoy your day!

P.S. If you don't know what a Gold Ball is. This is a nice read.

Gold Rush: The USTA “Gold Ball” is a coveted tennis talisman | Tennis.com

Every year in the U.S., teenagers to nonagenarians—and all groups of tennis players in between—hit optic yellow balls in hopes of winning one of a different color.

www.tennis.com

 

[colan5934]

Until recently I was breaking poly after around 10 hours (always mains, never crosses) with a 16x19 or 16x20. Since I switch to a 18x20 recently it takes longer, around 15 hours.
However Triax lasted only 5 hours.
I think I have decent RHS on my FH (not ATP level obviously) but for sure I’m lacking RHS on my OHBH. Thanks for your insightful comments.

Triax is meant to be softer, yea? I haven’t actually played with or even researched it heavily, as it’s expensive and not something I would use.

Racquet head speed is relative too. Fast and spinny for you could be slow and flat for others. There are so many levels to this game.

And yeah, 18x20 inhibits sliding of mains because there is greater interstring friction and less room to move. So it’s more likely to break crosses, especially with softer cross strings. If you’re breaking mains in full poly 18x20, I’m sure you hit some degree of spin more than flat. The properties of triax are probably what caused it to fail on the cross first.

 

[colan5934]

What a remarkable turnaround in the same thread.

I’m not sure if you’re arguing or not. We basically said the same things.

 

[colan5934]

@conan5934

It's disappointing many people on this forum (not specific to this thread) don't accept the mere concept of flat-hitting breaking crosses. There are multiple MRTs and teaching pros on this forum who state they witness their clients hitting flat and their clients typically break crosses first. @Wes made two videos explaining what is happening.

I have a 4.5A (appeal down from 5.0C) client who played Div 1 tennis who breaks 1.30mm poly crosses in his Pure Control Tour 16x20 frames that weighs 374 grams. I've posted his name, USTA record, and pictures of his frames with the 374 grams on this board before so there is no need to redo that. @MisterP knows this player well and there are others on this board in various cities who have hit against him. There is a reason he was bumped to 5.0 and it wasn't because of his topspin. He's just a fast very consistent player who hits a driving low ball. I don't think he hits flat, I know he hits flat. I've hit with him and against him many times in Combo. Same for the 3.5 player who breaks 1.40mm PPC in his crosses and another 4.5C who breaks 1.38mm Triax in their crosses.

There is a lady I hit against who plays for the USTA National Team who has over 50 Gold Balls and hits with Babolat Syn Gut. She was the #1 ranked female in the world at 50 in singles and doubles, #1 ranked female player in the world at 55 in singles and doubles. Guess what? She hits pretty flat and she breaks mains and crosses.

I've restrung many a frame with broken multifilament crosses and poly crosses. Some players break mains on occasion and break crosses at other times, like myself. I have a naturally flat swing and I know it. For clients who hit with heavy topspin, they never seem to break a cross or if they do, it is a rare event. I started stringing because I was breaking multis too quickly. I've learned a lot along the way thanks to some great local MRTs / Stringing Pros, and multiple generous Pro Stringers on this forum. It matters not what string your break if you're having fun, enjoying tennis, and staying injury free. My goal is to provide clients with strings that make them achieve their very best while keeping them healthy and not breaking their piggy banks. Players come in all shapes and sizes and there are string setups that can help them. Knowing what is happening with your string setups is the first step at making them more suitable to your game.

Happy Father's Day to all you Dads out there! Go enjoy your day!

P.S. If you don't know what a Gold Ball is. This is a nice read.

Gold Rush: The USTA “Gold Ball” is a coveted tennis talisman | Tennis.com

Every year in the U.S., teenagers to nonagenarians—and all groups of tennis players in between—hit optic yellow balls in hopes of winning one of a different color.

www.tennis.com

Absolutely to all of this! If you’re breaking strings at all it means you’re getting out on the courts and have some semblance of consistent contact and racquet head speed. Whether they’re crosses or mains matters not, as there are so many different ways to hit that ball that can work!

 

[g4driver]

The flat-hitting lady I wrote about. Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame. ITF database with an impressive record.

Pretty funny to hear the 4.5C appeal down guy ( the Ai98 pics from post#13 with the four broken mains) tell me he hit a kick serve to her in a 9.0 Mixed Practice and he comes the net and as she put his serve over his head into the corner for a winner. He told me he hit the same serve and came in again, and she hit the same winner. Then she walked up to him and said "We are teammates, so giving you a piece of advice. Don't come in on my serve". He told me he looked at her and said "Ok"

At 9.0 State, she was playing with a 4.0 buddy, her 4.0 partner fell down so it was her vs the 5.0 guy / 4.0 lady. Yep she won the point and their teammates start heckling her 4.0 partner "She doesn't need you"

 

[BillKid]

Triax is meant to be softer, yea? I haven’t actually played with or even researched it heavily, as it’s expensive and not something I would use.

Racquet head speed is relative too. Fast and spinny for you could be slow and flat for others. There are so many levels to this game.

And yeah, 18x20 inhibits sliding of mains because there is greater interstring friction and less room to move. So it’s more likely to break crosses, especially with softer cross strings. If you’re breaking mains in full poly 18x20, I’m sure you hit some degree of spin more than flat. The properties of triax are probably what caused it to fail on the cross first.

I don’t know the exact stiffness of Triax. I used a slighty thicker gauge and higher tension and with that, it did not feel softer than HyperG Soft especially at the beginning.

 

[ChanterRacquet]

No anecdotes, explain the physics of breaking crosses due to flat hitting as y’all are so wont to do with breaking mains.

 

[johnmccabe]

I would be very happy if this is my kid's problem. If I were you, I would learn to string at home, move to higher gauge multi main, use a strong synthetic gut as cross (OG sheep micro). Other cheaper multi like multifeel are good enough and have buy 2 get 1 free deals periodically.

 

[BillKid]

Triax is meant to be softer, yea? I haven’t actually played with or even researched it heavily, as it’s expensive and not something I would use.

Racquet head speed is relative too. Fast and spinny for you could be slow and flat for others. There are so many levels to this game.

And yeah, 18x20 inhibits sliding of mains because there is greater interstring friction and less room to move. So it’s more likely to break crosses, especially with softer cross strings. If you’re breaking mains in full poly 18x20, I’m sure you hit some degree of spin more than flat. The properties of triax are probably what caused it to fail on the cross first.

What do you think of a full bed of poly 18G in a 18x20? Is it worth a try?

 

[g4driver]

Until recently I was breaking poly after around 10 hours (always mains, never crosses) with a 16x19 or 16x20. Since I switch to a 18x20 recently it takes longer, around 15 hours.
However Triax lasted only 5 hours.
I think I have decent RHS on my FH (not ATP level obviously) but for sure I’m lacking RHS on my OHBH. Thanks for your insightful comments.

Consider trying 1.38mm Triax or 1.35mm HDMX in the mains with 1.30mm Swift or 1.28mm Cream to extend the life.

Triax as a full bed breaks more quickly than a multiyester main (Triax / HDMX) with an elastomer fused poly cross (YPTA, Cream, Swift). The hybrid is softer than softer polys like 1.25mm HGS and 1.30mm VCT.