90 square inch too small for modern game?

Video or it isn't true.
If Borg could generate massive topspin with a 65 sq. in., 15 oz,, 18x20 pattern in a tiny head racquet, don't you think anyone can generate topspin with a much bigger, much lighter, and much more open 16x18 pattern in a bigger head racquet? You cannot be serious. Sorry to hear if you're unable to.
 
Yes, but Federer is the GOAT.

Nobody else out there comes close.

He of all people should know what's best for him.
Just because you can play tennis doesn't mean you know what's best for you. Many good players can play with whatever and don't really know nor care what's best for them.
 
If Borg could generate massive topspin with a 65 sq. in., 15 oz,, 18x20 pattern in a tiny head racquet, don't you think anyone can generate topspin with a much bigger, much lighter, and much more open 16x18 pattern in a bigger head racquet? You cannot be serious. Sorry to hear if you're unable to.

Are you saying that you play with as much spin as Borg?

What were Borg's RPMs?

Anything close to Nadal's?

Where's your video of your massive topspin backhand?
 
Just because you can play tennis doesn't mean you know what's best for you. Many good players can play with whatever and don't really know nor care what's best for them.

We're talking about Federer. Not your run-of-the-mill rec player.

But since you state this, perhaps you don't really know what's best for you be it a 90, 95 or 110.
 
Are you saying that you play with as much spin as Borg?

What were Borg's RPMs?

Anything close to Nadal's?

Where's your video of your massive topspin backhand?
No, I'm saying I can generate plenty of topspin with a PS 6.0 85. So can any decent player. Borg would produce ungodly topspin with a PS 6.0 85.

I'd bet Borg could produce more topspin than Nadal if they both used wood racquets.
 
No, I'm saying I can generate plenty of topspin with a PS 6.0 85. So can any decent player. Borg would produce ungodly topspin with a PS 6.0 85.

I'd bet Borg could produce more topspin than Nadal if they both used wood racquets.

We need a video to verify this.

Who'd be dumb enough to play an ATP tournament with wood these days?
 
We need a video to verify this.

Who'd be dumb enough to play an ATP tournament with wood these days?
No, you don't need a video. Just ask anyone who plays with a PS 6.0 85.

Maybe you're just not as good of a tennis player?

Because everyone in the tournament is using wood racquets.
 
> No, you don't need a video. Just ask anyone who plays with a PS 6.0 85.

I do need a video.

And I need videos from all of the people that play the PS 6.0 85 as well.

> Maybe you're just not as good of a tennis player?

Well, we know what my tennis is like because I posted my video.

> Because everyone in the tournament is using wood racquets.

Were you heavily intoxicated at the US Open this year?
 
> No, you don't need a video. Just ask anyone who plays with a PS 6.0 85.

I do need a video.

And I need videos from all of the people that play the PS 6.0 85 as well.

> Maybe you're just not as good of a tennis player?

Well, we know what my tennis is like because I posted my video.

> Because everyone in the tournament is using wood racquets.

Were you heavily intoxicated at the US Open this year?
What you need is not of my concern.

If both Nadal and Borg were using wood racquets to play each other, obviously so is everyone else in the tournament.

Oh, and if you really need to see videos of people who can play decently with the PS 6.0 85, here's two playing each other:


;)
 
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While there are lots of arguments within arguments he may have made in this thread that I cannot agree with, I do agree with BP that there's nothing to show 90 sq inch is too small for the modern game..unless you believe what is too small for you is too small for the elite players too (which is as presumptuous an argument to make as any of BP's). Where does Fed's supposedly proto modern era stop and the 'real' modern era begin? 2008, is that a good cut off? So from 2008 to 2012, Fed still won 5 slams, masters titles, year ending championships, rank no.1 intermittently, etc. This, as he was falling off his physical peak. How would he do all that with a racquet too small for him? Yeah...you can argue because he's Federer but that is precisely the exception that negates the over generalised stance that 90 sq inch is too small. Strictly speaking, it is not. There may be n number of reasons why the tour as such has moved to the mid plus-sub OS bracket but none of that necessarily means the 90 sq inch is too small per se. As for me, I wouldn't want to comment whether it would work for me without playing with one. But I don't see anybody around with a PS 90. And I wouldn't want to buy a racquet without first trying it out to see whether I would be comfortable with it. But again, what works or doesn't work for me doesn't translate into a general rule. Borg would beat lots of club players with his wooden 65 sq inch. So this is a pointless argument. Better to focus on what works for you rather than trying to derive rules from what everybody is doing. I switched to a one hander because I never got any comfort with the double hander after trying hard. What does it matter that almost everybody else is hitting a double hander...it doesn't work for me so aping them would only be foolish. This kind of herding will only turn ATP into a WTA-like boring tour with near identical styles.
 
> What you need is not of my concern.

If that were true, you'd stop answering my posts.

So where is your video?

> If both Nadal and Borg were using wood racquets to play each other, obviously so is everyone else in the tournament.

Why would Nadal or Borg be dumb enough to use wood racquets today? They have small headsizes? Only fools think that they can generate the needed racquethead speed with these things today.

> Oh, and if you really need to see videos of people who can play decently with the PS 6.0 85, here's two playing each other:

Yes, but they're not making crazy claims on TT.

> Oh, and I'm not the only one who can hit great 1HBHs and serves as well as generate topspin with a PS 6.0 85:

Well, you make a lot of claims about yourself and other people. The other people post their videos for evidence.

How about you?
 
> What you need is not of my concern.

If that were true, you'd stop answering my posts.

So where is your video?

> If both Nadal and Borg were using wood racquets to play each other, obviously so is everyone else in the tournament.

Why would Nadal or Borg be dumb enough to use wood racquets today? They have small headsizes? Only fools think that they can generate the needed racquethead speed with these things today.

> Oh, and if you really need to see videos of people who can play decently with the PS 6.0 85, here's two playing each other:

Yes, but they're not making crazy claims on TT.

> Oh, and I'm not the only one who can hit great 1HBHs and serves as well as generate topspin with a PS 6.0 85:

Well, you make a lot of claims about yourself and other people. The other people post their videos for evidence.

How about you?
I answer your posts because I want to, not because you want me to.

Borg and Nadal will use wood racquets to show that Nadal can't generate any more topspin than Borg can using the equipment that Borg used to use. Nadal's shots are mostly a product of his modern equipment. It ain't him, it's his equipment.

My claims are no more "crazier" than almost all of these other people. In fact, they are saying the same thing I am, and there are a lot of these people since even in this day and age, TW alone sells tens of thousands of PS 6.0 85s.

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/feedback-W6085.html

Here's just one example of hundreds:

Comments: This is insane, I am a bit of a racquet hoarder, trying something new every few months but never this one, until today. It is so pure. From a golf comparison it's like hitting a forged steel Mizuno blade. The touch is unbelievable. The whippiness of this racquet is amazing! Just like the playtesters said the small head makes it whip through contact so fast, and allows for massive spin. Please never stop making this frame!
From: Anon, 5/14


Let's face it, just because YOU are unable to play with an 85 sq. in. racquet doesn't mean that nobody can. It's not the racquet, it's you.
 
> I answer your posts because I want to, not because you want me to.

I see. So you believe that you could really stop answering my posts if you wanted to. Not because of your obsession.

> Borg and Nadal will use wood racquets to show that Nadal can't generate any more topspin than Borg can using the
> equipment that Borg used to use. Nadal's shots are mostly a product of his modern equipment. It ain't him, it's his equipment.

Oh. But I thought that you said that equipment doesn't matter and that smaller racquets were better and you could generate as much spin with a smaller racquet as with a larger one.

> My claims are no more "crazier" than almost all of these other people. In fact, they are saying the same thing I am, and there are
> a lot of these people since even in this day and age, TW alone sells tens of thousands of PS 6.0 85s.

Most people don't create threads about how great old frames are better with all kinds of ridiculous claims about them. Some others make one or two but you seem to argue until you're blue in your fingertips.

> Let's face it, just because YOU are unable to play with an 85 sq. in. racquet doesn't mean that nobody can. It's not the racquet, it's you.

This isn't about me. It's about you.

If you are able to play with an 85 sq in racquet, then where's your video to prove it?
 
Here's just one example of hundreds:

Comments: This is insane, I am a bit of a racquet hoarder, trying something new every few months but never this one, until today. It is so pure. From a golf comparison it's like hitting a forged steel Mizuno blade. The touch is unbelievable. The whippiness of this racquet is amazing! Just like the playtesters said the small head makes it whip through contact so fast, and allows for massive spin. Please never stop making this frame!
From: Anon, 5/14

FYI: the myth of the feel of the forged (muscleback) blade has been thouroughly debunked scientifically. Just do a search on golfwrx.com.
Apparently, the sound of the impact is what the golfer perceives and interprets (mentally) as impact feel. Game improvement irons are often made of much harder material than player's irons, and hence they sound different.
 
My most recent trip to the dark side is yielding pretty solid results. I'm playing the Head Extreme Pro. That said, at moments my much more solid, slightly modified 4D100's just have to come out of the bag to remind me that the size of the racquet has nothing to do with my strokes.

What I find when switching between the racquets is that the 90 has a much more direct feel and a smaller sweetspot, though upping the tension to the max for the Extreme Pro and putting on leather grips has made the feel closer.

Bottom line. If I had the vision I had even ten years ago I could probably switch between them without a hitch. At the moment, I can still play comfortably with both at my 4-4.5 level. I still prefer serving with the 90. I don't know that I prefer anything with the larger sticks, but it seems I have a little more room for error and haven't lost any accuracy.

I do prefer the Extreme Pro's to my Wilson Six.One 16x18's. Jury's still out on the 4D100's.

Oh, and I do have a set of blades. At my handicap level, it doesn't really matter what irons I hit with. I can miss with anything, and the days on which I shoot sub-80 and mid-90s don't differ appreciably going to game-improvement irons. I just find different ways to miss. ;-)
 
Oh, and I do have a set of blades. At my handicap level, it doesn't really matter what irons I hit with. I can miss with anything, and the days on which I shoot sub-80 and mid-90s don't differ appreciably going to game-improvement irons. I just find different ways to miss. ;-)

I used to prefer the blades too, despite being a 15-20 handicap. Had some Ping i3 blades and some Titleist 990's (really liked those although they were ultimately unpopular). would have done better with callaway irons, but i couldnt warm up to them.

thankfully i quit golf and my mental state improved.
 
I used to prefer the blades too, despite being a 15-20 handicap. Had some Ping i3 blades and some Titleist 990's (really liked those although they were ultimately unpopular). would have done better with callaway irons, but i couldnt warm up to them.

thankfully i quit golf and my mental state improved.

I left golf for the good of the game.... [emoji41]
 
I've been playing with RDS001 in 90sq for the last two years, im now at a point where im not progressing beyond the 4.0 level and feel a move to the ai98 would be better for me - however this certainly isnt down the the fact the racquet is 90sq - its that as my game has changed (now hit 1hbh) i personally am not good enough on the stroke to make it work with the racquet.

Any thoughts on moving up a hs would be appreciated as there is a wealth of knowledge on here - i was looking at the PS95 or AI98
 
It's fine to play PS85/90 if you have RAW talent. We are waiting to unearth a player with Pro Staff 85/90 otherwise it is the end of Pro Staff line when RF retired.
 
Kyrgios plays with a Yonex, interestingly enough but not the Wawa. He plays with the Ivanovic stick. Make of that what you will. lol He does have great touch and a willingness to risk shots. He may end up being a better clay court player than hard. It'll be interesting to see.

As for Fed changing his sticks with every new gimmick, I too don't believe he did. But I do think the last 90 was different from say the NCode 90. If you watch the way he swings each stick you can tell the difference in weight, to my eyes at least.

To wield a 90-93 inch frame on the tour today requires a few things that most players today didn't, don't or can't do.

#1 You have to play with it while your game and strokes are still developing. There's no way a Nadal or Kyrgios is going to swing a Tour 90 the way they swing their Babs and that Yonex. It's never going to happen. The 90 will never generate enough power, spin and give enough margin for error, aka "power spot", for those strokes to be effective. This is the MAJOR hurdle to players using mid-size frames these days. I've watched it with so many juniors and pre-juniors. They get so much more power from Babs and similar frames when they are physically too weak to generate it themselves. So in order to simply keep up they use the more powerful, more forgiving frames and never learn how to generate the power themselves. Look at Kyrgios physically. Nadal coming from clay courts is an exception

#2 You have to be a darn good athlete with the ability to hit winners on the move and in transition from both wings, meaning you need a 1HBH. Courier probably would've won at least another French if his strokes had been grooved around a larger, more powerful frame, and Poly strings, Agassi possibly as well.

Right now I don't see any ATP players outside of the top 5 or so with the overall athletic ability, style of play and strokes to use a 90-95. Djoker probably could but being a baseliner with an OK serve and minimal net game, it would offer no advantages to counter the many disadvantages.
Djoker uses a 95
 
It's fine to play PS85/90 if you have RAW talent. We are waiting to unearth a player with Pro Staff 85/90 otherwise it is the end of Pro Staff line when RF retired.

The junior coaches I know would ritually burn any sub-98 frame before "their kid" would turn up for a tournament with it. Mids are well and truly done.
 
I think it really depends on your style of play mostly. If you are a grind it out baseliner and use alot of topspin, then the 90sq in head is probably not the best choice since you want to use alot of racket head speed and the brush up on the ball so the extra forgiveness and bigger sweetspot comes in handy for topspin. They also seem to provide more power and give you are greater margin of forgiveness for off centered shots. This tends to be the majority of the modern game players these days so you see lighter rackets with bigger head sizes.

However If you are more of a all court player and use moderate top spin, a 90 sq in head is great. It is like a scapulae to give you more feel and control. They also tend to be more on the heavy side but gives good plow through on shots so is more stable. Usually you have to provide your own power with these. Volleys are great to whip a smaller head for fast reaction time.

I personally am a 4.5 all court player so i tend to play more mid size frames. Rackets in my bag include, Yonex RDS 001 Mid, Wilson K Blade Tour, and the Blade 93. But I do have shoulder issues so have been dabbing in the lighter rackets with larger head size.
 
To quote my last opponent: "Can you actually hit in the court with such a small racket?"

6-0, 6-2

Basically no one here is good enough to be concerned about their racket's head size. At our pathetically slow speeds, the difference between 90 and 100 is negligible.
 
To quote my last opponent: "Can you actually hit in the court with such a small racket?"

6-0, 6-2

Basically no one here is good enough to be concerned about their racket's head size. At our pathetically slow speeds, the difference between 90 and 100 is negligible.

I beg to differ. Depends who you're playing. And how.
 
Interesting to see this thread come back to page 1. A 90sq inch frame would be at a disadvantage for many players in the current environment of what else is available. Most don’t do it.
To make it work it would need to be very heavy and headlight ( which many are) and be used by a S & V player with a big serve and precise game, and you have to be super fit and mobile,
I have been using a 93 ( PB 10 Mid), its an excellent 330g frame with a 320g SW and it’s a great frame for playing S & V, however whenever I hit with a 97 or 98 you instantly feel how much easier it is to generate a bit more free power.
From time to time their are some manufacturers that have tried to do something about it. Volkl’s Super G Mid 330 and currently Head Prestige Pro are 2 frames that come to mind. The Volkl is a 96 Head with a v throat, but a 22mm beam and 64 ra and it has some power. The prestige Pro also has that thicker beam to help you out. The other frame that comes to mind is the Yonex V Core 95. This 95 (2018) frame feels much easier to use than the specs would indicate,
 
If you're playing against very fit players who hit with a lot of spin and pace, a 90 sq in racquet will be tough for anyone who isn't a young Roger Federer or Pete Sampras. There's a reason why all the touring pro's use 95 and above racquets these days.

However, at the recreational level, if most of your opponents play with pace and spin that you find pretty manageable, then a 90 can be VERY fun to play with, especially if you have an attacking game that includes coming to net.

Put another way, if you just play for fun, then a 90 is fine, especially if it's not your only racquet.

However, if I could have only one racquet model in my bag, it would not be a 90. It would be a 95-97.
 
You are all operating under the delusion that there is a modern spin game to be had, while the reality is that most rec players could not hit a proper stroke if their lives depended on it.
As for the amateur me, I feel no ease with a larger racket. It only feels like a clumsy trampoline.
 
You are all operating under the delusion that there is a modern spin game to be had, while the reality is that most rec players could not hit a proper stroke if their lives depended on it.
As for the amateur me, I feel no ease with a larger racket. It only feels like a clumsy trampoline.

That's the truth. Many assume their game has evolved with the times.
Much like when the 800m race became a sprint in track. People assumed that meant across the board.
 
And the one handed backhand feels especially dreadful with anything over 95.
Double handed is the opposite for some reason.
I love my PS90 more than my RF97, but I definitely hit a much meaner attacking backhand with the RF97 than I do with the 90. The stiffness, torsional stability, and beam thickness allow me to hit flat shots that keep their speed much more consistently than I ever have with the PS90. I feel more confident hitting the angles on the backhand wing with my 90 to set up the forehand though.
 
You are all operating under the delusion that there is a modern spin game to be had, while the reality is that most rec players could not hit a proper stroke if their lives depended on it.
As for the amateur me, I feel no ease with a larger racket. It only feels like a clumsy trampoline.

As I’ve stated previously, it’s about who you play with/against. If I have time to prepare, I really don’t see much difference when hitting with certain mids vs my go-to 98sq.inch sticks. There are some, however, that are hard to play inherently...like Fischer Vacuum Mid or TC90 for instance. PS85 was easier to play than those two. With my BLX PS90, I can go full western no problem but that is kinda exception from the rule. Problem begins when you play someone who actually knows what he’s doing. Less reaction time, less preparation and much more complicated spins and placement to deal with. Play on clay predominantly and since I prefer to keep my feet around baseline (not two meters behind), I can feel the help of those 8 sq.inches and thicker beam pretty darn well. Plus a lot of 95-100 sticks play and feel excellent for one hander, some even better than some mids (Yonex Tour G330 for instance, Angell TC95 or even TC100).
 
I love my PS90 more than my RF97, but I definitely hit a much meaner attacking backhand with the RF97 than I do with the 90. The stiffness, torsional stability, and beam thickness allow me to hit flat shots that keep their speed much more consistently than I ever have with the PS90. I feel more confident hitting the angles on the backhand wing with my 90 to set up the forehand though.
I find this with my 90. It's easier to hit with spin than it is to hit flat. The 16x19 pattern launch angle, plus the manoeuvrability/instability of the head make really loopy spinny strokes easy. Flatter I find harder. (Despite everybody claiming that smaller heads are for flat hitters).
 
So after my knee injury over 6 years ago and having been off tennis largely for 4 years I have been slowly getting back into the swing of things and at least playing house league. I was practicing in the spring with a Wilson 95S so I decided to just stick with it. Dear lord I have to say, and I know how it will sound but the racquet is too big even with my limited mobility these days. I really thought I was making excuses but after hitting the tape about 15 times in a set I took out my PS90 and even though I'm way back from where I want to be I certainly found it easier to get into rhythm and hit the clean mid speed strokes. I still used the ancient PS85 in competitive regional matches up to 2015 and my injury and I have to say forget about the spin it's mostly pace and consistency of your opponent. If the opponent is simply hitting the ball with too much speed you just can't use a heavier, smaller racquet and a 95 will feel different because of that pace. And also if your opponent can hit mid level ground strokes all day a 90 will wear on you more than a 95 in general but you can absolutely end the point sooner with a 90.
 
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