A 3 surface WTF??

[ollinger]

I haven't thought through the logistics of the round robin entirely, but as each player plays 3 matches in the round robin, would it be feasible to do it somewhere where each player could play those round robin matches on hard, clay and grass courts, sequentially. Everyone plays one match on each surface. For the semi final and final matches, the player with the better record in the tournament (fewest sets lost, fewest games lost, whatever tiebreaker you want to use), would choose the surface. No more whining about what surface the tournament is played on, and players would have incentive to play every match at full speed instead of laying back for a better semi match-up.

 

[mike danny]

This is a pretty good suggestion.

Mine was to play the RR matches on HC since it's the most prevalent surface on tour so it only makes sense to play the most matches on this one,then contest the semi on clay and the final on grass. I chose grass for the final because grass deserves a second big final after Wimb.

 

[TheAssassin]

This is a pretty good suggestion.

Mine was to play the RR matches on HC since it's the most prevalent surface on tour so it only makes sense to play the most matches on this one,then contest the semi on clay and the final on grass. I chose grass for the final because grass deserves a second big final after Wimb.

Imagine the trouble of having to beat Nadal in the semifinal on clay in order to play that grass final though. But since it's only one match there the surface won't be worn out so that would be a pleasant sight.

 

[tennisaddict]

Ludicrous idea

Players can switch between surfaces during a tournament giving them no rhythm ?

 

[Dilexson]

Can't we just leave WTF alone with Indoors?
This has become a gruesome topic here.
It's a tournament of merit and it should stay just the way it is.

 

[mike danny]

Imagine the trouble of having to beat Nadal in the semifinal on clay in order to play that grass final though. But since it's only one match there the surface won't be worn out so that would be a pleasant sight.

Who gets Nadal on clay in the semi will be important.

 

[ollinger]

Players can switch between surfaces during a tournament giving them no rhythm

I'd rather see a champion adept at all surfaces than one who happens to get into a rhythm on one surface. Much more "level playing field"

 

[tennisaddict]

I'd rather see a champion adept at all surfaces than one who happens to get into a rhythm on one surface. Much more "level playing field"

They play the whole year on different surfaces . You are going to find out something in 1 week what you could have found out during the whole year ?

Other than how players transition between different surfaces within a week , there is no new information you are going to find .

 

[ollinger]

They play the whole year on different surfaces . You are going to find out something in 1 week what you could have found out during the whole year ?

Other than how players transition between different surfaces within a week , there is no new information you are going to find

the point here is not to find out "new information" but to provide a venue that tests players on the major surfaces and doesn't favor a player who happens to excel only on one surface

 

[Spencer Gore]

They play the whole year on different surfaces . You are going to find out something in 1 week what you could have found out during the whole year ?

Other than how players transition between different surfaces within a week , there is no new information you are going to find .

Exactly. The No.1 during the entire tour is the best player -not the guy who wins the last-man standing exhibition tournament.

This year Nadal was the best player.

 

[tennisaddict]

the point here is not to find out "new information" but to provide a venue that tests players on the major surfaces and doesn't favor a player who happens to excel only on one surface

For that you need the event to be rotated every year and not within the week.

 

[boredone3456]

Having a venue that has all 3 kinds of courts on site would costly as no such venue currently exists. Plus, the WTF has had like 15 different host cities in its history so far as it has rotated around the world...you'd have to decide a permanent location for the tournament unless you plan to shell out the money every few years to build a venue to hold all 3 types of courts.

 

[ollinger]

For that you need the event to be rotated every year and not within the week.

this is what's called stimulus-bound thinking. All you know from your past experience is tournaments played entirely on one surface, and you seem unable to conceptualize something different. Dare to dare. These are supposed to be the best 8 players in the world, let's give them a real challenge that requires them to adjust their games day to day on surfaces that don't favor a particular player.

 

[merlinpinpin]

the point here is not to find out "new information" but to provide a venue that tests players on the major surfaces and doesn't favor a player who happens to excel only on one surface

They should do that at every slam, too:
- day 1: slow HC
- day 2: har-tru
- day 3: indoor carpet
- day 4: red clay
- day 5: fast HC
- day 6: Rebound Ace in extremely hot conditions, so it's super rubbery
- day 7: natural grass
- day 8: wood
- day 9: grainy HC with bad bounce, just for kicks
- day 10: indoor clay
- day 11: ice
- day 12: synthetic grass
- day 13: crushed glass
- day 14: slippery blue clay

This way, we'd have real champions, not these MUGS who all play the same on every surface.

 

[ollinger]

Having a venue that has all 3 kinds of courts on site would costly as no such venue currently exists.

Really not such a big deal, easy to do outside in a decent climate; I know of a guy in Alpine NJ who has all 3 surface courts in his backyard (and who has had Novak as his houseguest for a number of US Opens)

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Wondering whether OP might consider the potential of a more immediately varied offering. While his suggestion is wholly original, might we all be better served by a real quilt of a court to replace this vile blight on the ATP's calendar? Surely, a 78' x 27' sheet comprised of a patchwork of alternating squares of grass, clay, plexicushion, carpet (nod to history), and hardwood (nod to even older history) would offer more variety than a tour contested on clay one-third of the time. Am I right?

 

[TMF]

Exactly. The No.1 during the entire tour is the best player -not the guy who wins the last-man standing exhibition tournament.

This year Nadal was the best player.

Nope. There's a strong case for Federer being the best player.

Winning percentage
Federer 52-5(91%)
Nadal 67-11(86%)

Single titles
Federer 7
Nadal 6

Record against top 10
Federer 14-2
Nadal 11-6

H2H
Federer 4
Nadal 0

 

[Shaolin]

Bad idea very bad.

 

[ollinger]

Wondering whether OP might consider the potential of a more immediately varied offering. While his suggestion is wholly original, might we all be better served by a real quilt of a court to replace this vile blight on the ATP's calendar? Surely, a 78' x 27' sheet comprised of a patchwork of alternating squares of grass, clay, plexicushion, carpet (nod to history), and hardwood (nod to even older history) would offer more variety than a tour contested on clay one-third of the time.

recall Roger and Rafa's match on the half-and-half court

 

[ollinger]

Bad idea very bad

a dazzling explanation

 

[Dilexson]

They should do that at every slam, too:
- day 1: slow HC
- day 2: har-tru
- day 3: indoor carpet
- day 4: red clay
- day 5: fast HC
- day 6: Rebound Ace in extremely hot conditions, so it's super rubbery
- day 7: natural grass
- day 8: wood
- day 9: grainy HC with bad bounce, just for kicks
- day 10: indoor clay
- day 11: ice
- day 12: synthetic grass
- day 13: crushed glass
- day 14: slippery blue clay

This way, we'd have real champions, not these MUGS who all play the same on every surface.

I second this.
You really have a lot of free time these days.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

recall Roger and Rafa's match on the half-and-half court

A nice start to be sure. That exho barely scratched the surface, though. Seems that the concept could be expanded almost immeasurably. Even an annual event may not do it justice. Imagine that the entirety of the calendar might be re-orchestrated. In the key of variety. The mind reels.

 

[Dilexson]

recall Roger and Rafa's match on the half-and-half court

You're right, i forgot WTF is an exo.

 

[ojo rojo]

Bad idea very bad.

 

[Shaolin]

a dazzling explanation

The players adjust their games to playing on each surface.

The switching suddenly will lower the quality of the tennis and is also potentially hazardous to the players.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

The players adjust their games to playing on each surface.

The switching suddenly will lower the quality of the tennis and is also potentially hazardous to the players.

Perhaps hazard is what the OP had in mind.

 

[True Fanerer]

The trouble with this idea is that there's going to be a lot of low quality matches.

 

[George Turner]

I haven't thought through the logistics of the round robin entirely, but as each player plays 3 matches in the round robin, would it be feasible to do it somewhere where each player could play those round robin matches on hard, clay and grass courts, sequentially. Everyone plays one match on each surface. For the semi final and final matches, the player with the better record in the tournament (fewest sets lost, fewest games lost, whatever tiebreaker you want to use), would choose the surface. No more whining about what surface the tournament is played on, and players would have incentive to play every match at full speed instead of laying back for a better semi match-up.

How about every major switches surfaces between rounds aswell?

 

[True Fanerer]

Perhaps hazard is what the OP had in mind.

Guaranteed Fed victory.

 

[ollinger]

is also potentially hazardous to the players

fake news, baseless nonsense without a shred of evidence.

 

[ollinger]

How about every major switches surfaces between rounds aswell?

too many courts required, but I like your style

 

[pame]

this is what's called stimulus-bound thinking. All you know from your past experience is tournaments played entirely on one surface, and you seem unable to conceptualize something different. Dare to dare. These are supposed to be the best 8 players in the world, let's give them a real challenge that requires them to adjust their games day to day on surfaces that don't favor a particular player.

Are you sure that you aren't daring players to break their freaking ankles? Bad enough asking players to switch surfaces in the space of a week; now you want them to switch surfaces in the space of a day?? Hard to believe you actually play tennis

 

[MasturB]

I say bring it back to carpet.

 

[Shaolin]

fake news, baseless nonsense without a shred of evidence.

…says a guy who never played a second on tour.

If you don't understand how going one surface to another constantly can hurt your game and footwork I can't help you.

Look up Agassi's quotes about having to rework his game and 'get the junk out' switching from clay to grass.

 

[boredone3456]

…says a guy who never played a second on tour.

If you don't understand how going one surface to another constantly can hurt your game and footwork I can't help you.

Look up Agassi's quotes about having to rework his game and 'get the junk out' switching from clay to grass.

Amen. each surface requires different footwork variations. You can't expect dudes to slide on clay one match then be able to pound it out on a hardcourt the very next match and maintain a high level in both matches, especially at the end of the season when they have been playing for the past 10 months and are probably already physically worn down as it is. You'd be seeing players tank certain surfaces to better their chances on others or risking injury. Best double the number of Alternates on site because you might need them.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

Perhaps hazard is what the OP had in mind.

Gives junkballing a completely new meaning...

 

[Deleted member 743561]

Gives junkballing a completely new meaning...

"That ball was on the wreckage! Shrapnel flew up!!"

 

[Poisoned Slice]

 

[Mr Feeny]

Ludicrous idea

Players can switch between surfaces during a tournament giving them no rhythm ?

That's what came to mind. It sounds like a nice idea but I can' imagine that the players would have an easy time transitioning from one surface to the next.

The other issue - as someone already mentioned - is how to decide which of the 3 opponents you get to play on which surface. If you're stuck with Nadal in your group,you'd much rather be handed a grass match against him than a clay match. Th3se details would determine who qualifies and who doesn't. It just doesn't seem to be fair.

 

[existential dread]

I'd rather see a champion adept at all surfaces than one who happens to get into a rhythm on one surface. Much more "level playing field"

No. Such. Thing. Life isn't fair, sports more so.

 

[pame]

In this year's Davis Cup Finals, France chose HC which more suits their players. In 2014, with players who also were better on HC, The French chose clay to play Fed and Wawrinka on - seeking to take what advantage they could of the Swiss having to adjust in less than a week and transition from WTF hard court to clay.

The more you think about it, the crazier asking players to transition in a day between surfaces is.

 

[pame]

In this year's Davis Cup Finals, France chose HC which more suits their players. In 2014, with players who also were better on HC, The French chose clay to play Fed and Wawrinka on - seeking to take what advantage they could of the Swiss having to adjust in less than a week and transition from WTF hard court to clay.

The more you think about it, the crazier asking players to transition in a day between surfaces is.

 

[Mainad]

It's enough to make your hair stand on end!

 

[Mazz Retic]

10char

 

[every7]

This is a pretty good suggestion.

Mine was to play the RR matches on HC since it's the most prevalent surface on tour so it only makes sense to play the most matches on this one,then contest the semi on clay and the final on grass. I chose grass for the final because grass deserves a second big final after Wimb.

Grasscourt WTF event would be beyond excellent.

This solves 2 problems imo:
- That there deserves to be at least one more big grass event.
- WTF has become pretty stale in it's current iteration.

I can't believe in the "Why isn't there a grass masters" debates this has never been suggested as a compromise before. It's a great idea.

 

[PMChambers]

How about
3 surfaces.
2 BH
3 Racquets
2 Strings

Grass + wood + gut+ 1HBH
Clay + modern >95"+ poly + 2HBH
HC + 80-85" + gut + either 1 or 2HBH.

 

[pame]

How about
3 surfaces.
2 BH
3 Racquets
2 Strings

Grass + wood + gut+ 1HBH
Clay + modern >95"+ poly + 2HBH
HC + 80-85" + gut + either 1 or 2HBH.

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

LOL second time today your posts make me almost choke on my dinner.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Wondering whether OP might consider the potential of a more immediately varied offering. While his suggestion is wholly original, might we all be better served by a real quilt of a court to replace this vile blight on the ATP's calendar? Surely, a 78' x 27' sheet comprised of a patchwork of alternating squares of grass, clay, plexicushion, carpet (nod to history), and hardwood (nod to even older history) would offer more variety than a tour contested on clay one-third of the time. Am I right?

If you include water hazards I'm sold.

 

[Gary Duane]

Ludicrous idea

Players can switch between surfaces during a tournament giving them no rhythm ?

And dangerous physically, because of no adjustment.

 

[Gary Duane]

If you include water hazards I'm sold.

Add in some obstacles from The Hunger Games.