A 38-year old player is the world no 3. Weak era?

SaintPetros

Professional
Every great sportsman will keep saying that even though their performance has visibly declined. Only blind ones like you take those words as fact.
You are wrong - Nadal plainly says he's not as good as he was in his earlier years. Square with this however you must.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
You are wrong - Nadal plainly says he's not as good as he was in his earlier years. Square with this however you must.
Nadal always says he is injured during non-clay season all through his career. Nadal is a serial liar. So debunked. He likes to play the victim.

That’s not Fed.

You are moving goal posts here.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Nadal always says he is injured during non-clay season all through his career. Nadal is a serial liar. So debunked. He likes to play the victim.

That’s not Fed.

You are moving goal posts here.
This is called an argument. One side presents a claim, the other side (hopefully considers it), responds, and a dialogue ensues. So far, your response to my arguments has taken the form of ad hominem, either on me, or now on Nadal.
Sad.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
This is called an argument. One side presents a claim, the other side (hopefully considers it), responds, and a dialogue ensues. So far, your response to my arguments has taken the form of ad hominem, either on me, or now on Nadal.
Sad.
That’s not an argument when you cite something/someone who has been caught with lies and cheating. You are ignoring that fact. That’s called hypocrisy. First with 2004-2007 weak era and now with Nadal.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
That’s not an argument when you cite something/someone who has been caught with lies and cheating. You are ignoring that fact. That’s called hypocrisy. First with 2004-2007 weak era and now with Nadal.
You can give proof of Nadal lying? Please do so.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
He beat prime Nadal and 2018 Nadal was prime form. So that's two.
2011 Nadal prime but 2012 Wimbledon Djokovic baby? 2017 AO Nadal geriatric, but 2018 Wimby Nadal prime? I don't think so. I think if you dig deep enough you'll find that both have 0 "slams", but Fed has the Cincy h2h so he wins.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
That’s not an argument when you cite something/someone who has been caught with lies and cheating. You are ignoring that fact. That’s called hypocrisy. First with 2004-2007 weak era and now with Nadal.
Why is your avatar Federer winning something in 2017? That shouldn't count.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
That’s not an argument when you cite something/someone who has been caught with lies and cheating. You are ignoring that fact. That’s called hypocrisy. First with 2004-2007 weak era and now with Nadal.
Also fyi, Nadal's potential lies about injury don't prove he's lying about his assessment of his current performance. You need to prove he's doing that too.
Thanks.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
2011 Nadal prime but 2012 Wimbledon Djokovic baby? 2017 AO Nadal geriatric, but 2018 Wimby Nadal prime? I don't think so. I think if you dig deep enough you'll find that both have 0 "slams", but Fed has the Cincy h2h so he wins.
I was trying to prove a point about how ridiculous these arguments are. You can take away pretty much all slams from both dudes with these stupid arguments.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
Also fyi, Nadal's potential lies about injury don't prove he's lying about his assessment of his current performance. You need to prove he's doing that too.
Thanks.
Fed’s potential “belief” doesn’t prove that he is playing better than ever. You need to show Fed is playing his best ever too.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Never missed a clay season. Caught cheating fined by umpires. Are you good??

You can give proof Fed is playing his best ever? Please do so.
How does that prove he was lying? When was he caught cheating/fined by umpires? I need more particulars.

I already provided you proof - Fed's own assessment. Would you like the exact quote?
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Fed potential belief doesn’t prove that he is playing better than ever. You need to show Fed is playing his best ever too.
Fed's belief, coupled with that of other pros on the same level is certainly a substantial proof he's playing his best ever. Who is in a better position to judge? You?
 

AceSalvo

Legend
How does that prove he was lying? When was he caught cheating/fined by umpires? I need more particulars.

I already provided you proof - Fed's own assessment. Would you like the exact quote?
You can find the particulars in your free time. But it’s recorded he was cheating as fcalled out by the umpire.

You didn’t provide any proof that shows Fed is playing his best ever.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
Fed's belief, coupled with that of other pros on the same level is certainly a substantial proof he's playing his best ever. Who is in a better position to judge? You?
I don’t need to judge. I can see the results and stats of what Fed did at his peak and what Fed is doing now.

As opposed to you clinging on to someone’s words and stating they have a potential to lie.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
You can find the particulars in your free time. But it’s recorded he was cheating as fcalled out by the umpire.

You didn’t provide any proof that shows Fed is playing his best ever.
So nothing, OK.
Yes, I invoked his quote which is a proof. Would you like me to include it in my next post, as well as those of his peers?
 

SaintPetros

Professional
I don’t need to judge. I can see the results and stats of what Fed did at his peak and what Fed is doing now.

As opposed to you clinging on to someone’s words and stating they have a potential to lie.
I think you're confused - you're the one using Nadal's supposed lies to prove that his assessment of his performance is untrustworthy in some bizarre attempt to state that pros in general can't be trusted to assess their own performance.
I haven't stated anyone is lying.
 

Noleberic123

G.O.A.T.
I don’t need to judge. I can see the results and stats of what Fed did at his peak and what Fed is doing now.

As opposed to you clinging on to someone’s words and stating they have a potential to lie.
He has more proof than you. Yours is more of an assumption.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
I think you're confused - you're the one using Nadal's supposed lies to prove that his assessment of his performance is untrustworthy in some bizarre attempt to state that pros in general can't be trusted to assess their own performance.
I haven't stated anyone is lying.
But you are quoting Nadal who has been caught lying and cheating. So it’s just your hypocrisy to use something that is not a fact to prove that Fed’s beliefs are facts.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
But you are quoting Nadal who has been caught lying and cheating. So it’s just your hypocrisy to use something that is not a fact to prove that Fed’s beliefs are facts.
You haven't proved Nadal has lied about anything, and furthermore, even if I grant you that he lied about what you say he lied about, it doesn't prove he's lying with regards to his assessment of his performance. Please do this.
Thanks.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
You haven't proved Nadal has lied about anything, and furthermore, even if I grant you that he lied about what you say he lied about, it doesn't prove he's lying with regards to his assessment of his performance. Please do this.
Thanks.
As of now you have not proved anything that Fed’s beliefs are a fact. Please do that assessment too.

Nadal has been caught lying is a fact. But if you can’t accept it that’s your problem.

Stop using what Nadal says to try to prove Fed’s beliefs are facts. That’s so dumb.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
As of now you have proved anything that Fed’s beliefs are a fact. Please do that assessment too.

Nadal has been caught lying is a fact. But if you can’t accept it that your problem.
Still waiting on proof that Nadal is lying about his performance assessment.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
Still waiting on proof regarding Fed’s beliefs. And no, what Nadal said does not prove anything.
Yes it does. It proves that your statement that all top performing pros will claim they're better than ever even thought their performance has "visibly" declined (so you're relying on your own assessment as being more valid than theirs, interesting) is FALSE. This in turn, lends more validity to my claim that Federer's quote about himself is trustworthy.
Also - the burden is on you to prove why Fed's beliefs are false, not me.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
Yes it does. It proves that your statement that all top performing pros will claim they're better than ever even thought their performance has "visibly" declined (so you're relying on your own assessment as being more valid than theirs, interesting) is FALSE. This in turn, lends more validity to my claim that Federer's quote about himself is trustworthy.
Also - the burden is on you to prove why Fed's beliefs are false, not me.
You are trying to quote someone else to prove that Fed’s beliefs are fact. That is not a burden on me but on yourself.

So far you are criticizing others for using your weak era goal post movement logic. Then you put the burden on other to prove your claim that Fed’s beliefs are facts.

Stop running away.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
You are trying to quote someone else to prove that Fed’s beliefs are fact. That is not a burden on me but on yourself.

So far you are criticizing others for using your weak era goal post movement logic. Then you put the burden on other to prove your claim that Fed’s beliefs are facts.

Stop running away.
You're confused (again). I'm quoting Nadal to disprove your claim that a top pro would say he was at his best even if he'd visibly declined. Nadal's doing the exact opposite of what you claimed directly disproves your attempt to question the validity of Fed's words, and now you need to move on to another tactic.

Thanks.
 

Tony48

Legend
I think so. Agassi was considered a fossil in 2003-2005 at the age of 33-35 when he was ranked in the top 10. Well, there is a player who's 38 years old and is in the top 3. This must be a super weak era.

A 38-year old had several match points against the world no 1 and holder of 3 Slams too btw.
I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Federer running around the tennis court like he's in his mid-20s and didn't show a single sign of fatigue (he ran more during the match than Djokovic did, BTW). The era is defined by a player's FORM, not their age. And with Federer's current form, being in the top 3 is not a surprise at all.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
You're confused (again). I'm quoting Nadal to disprove your claim that a top pro would say he was at his best even if he'd visibly declined. Nadal's doing the exact opposite of what you claimed directly disproves your attempt to question the validity of Fed's words, and now you need to move on to another tactic.

Thanks.
You are just claiming other are confused when you are trying to quote someone else to prove Fed’s beliefs works the same as others. Kind of gives a warning that you just have nothing to back it up.

Still proven nothing.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
You are trying to quote someone else to prove that Fed’s beliefs are fact. That is not a burden on me but on yourself.

So far you are criticizing others for using your weak era goal post movement logic. Then you put the burden on other to prove your claim that Fed’s beliefs are facts.

Stop running away.
Have you said anything that's verifiable or hasn't been proven wrong in this entire convo? Thought not.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
You are just claiming other are confused when you are trying to quote someone else to prove Fed’s beliefs works the same as others. Kind of gives a warning that you just have nothing to back it up.

Still proven nothing.
I've clarified what I did so many times, but it doesn't sink in with you. Starting to think there's a reason for that. Maybe when you unplug from Fedworship we can have a conversation.
Til then, Toodles.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
You have not proved anything other than just stating someone’s “belief”.
That someone who is Federer, the point of our conversation, and is speaking about himself. But again, I guess you know better. You also know better than Laver, Djokovic, and McEnroe who have said similar things about him.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
I've clarified what I did so many times, but it doesn't sink in with you. Starting to think there's a reason for that. Maybe when you unplug from Fedworship we can have a conversation.
Til then, Toodles.
You have clarified nothing so far. Stating one's beliefs becomes a fact is the only claim you have made so far. Maybe your Prete Worship and your anit-Fed worship has clouded all your through process.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
You have clarified nothing so far. Stating one's beliefs becomes a fact is the only claim you have made so far. Maybe your Prete Worship and your anit-Fed worship has clouded all your through process.
Wrong again. Citing expert opinions is a powerful form of evidence used in court. So again, you have nothing.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
That someone who is Federer, the point of our conversation, and is speaking about himself. But again, I guess you know better. You also know better than Laver, Djokovic, and McEnroe who have said similar things about him.
That some who is Federer, although is speaking about himself, has not shown he is better than ever when he way past his peak. You also know better that Laver, Djokovic, and McEnroe say thing that is just to create more attention and that which is good for the sport.
 

SaintPetros

Professional
That some who is Federer, although is speaking about himself, has not shown he is better than ever when he way past his peak. You also know better that Laver, Djokovic, and McEnroe say thing that is just to create more attention and that which is good for the sport.
LAVER says things to generate attention for the sport? Now that's a new one.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
LAVER says things to generate attention for the sport? Now that's a new one.
That not a new one when Laver never said anything like that. His exact quote is this "He’s playing so well at the moment. I might venture he’s playing the best tennis of his life ". You can also venture along.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster

AceSalvo

Legend
Oh, so quotes do count now? Sorry, I have trouble keeping up with your changing goalposts.
Quotes do count when you claim opposite of what Laver said. Show the quote where LAver said "without doubt Fed is playing the best tennis ever". Said no one ever.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/last-match-was-best-i-ever-played-says-sampras-83754.html

"Everyone was getting better when I was No 1 in the world and winning majors left and right. I was 10 times the player as I got older. When I was dominating I didn't have any bad matches and players overall weren't as good. The 2002 US Open Pete would beat the 1994 or 1995 Pete easily."

Same sort of stuff Fed says.
:-D:-D:-D

So junior Fed beat the Best Sampras ever. GOAT right there.

Sick logic.
 
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