Bubba
Professional
Thanks - Well, that ends all the debate on the specs...
88
12.3oz / 349g
9 pts HL
Just under the K90 weight.
A brand new KPS 88 & A Brand New Pro staff St. Vincent
- Thread starter jetlee2k
- Start date
Thanks - Well, that ends all the debate on the specs...
88
12.3oz / 349g
9 pts HL
Just under the K90 weight.
stormholloway
Legend
There are more factors than what is written on paper. Keep in mind that the feeling of the racquet when you swing it takes place in the mind, not on a spec sheet.
To me, the K90 lacked mass in the throat. This made me feel slightly disconnected from the racquet head. The PS85, however, put more mass-emphasis on the throat, and as such, the racquet felt whole. The feedback was great because the mass in the throat allowed great energy communication between the racquet head and the hand.
That's how I feel anyway.
To me, the K90 lacked mass in the throat. This made me feel slightly disconnected from the racquet head. The PS85, however, put more mass-emphasis on the throat, and as such, the racquet felt whole. The feedback was great because the mass in the throat allowed great energy communication between the racquet head and the hand.
That's how I feel anyway.
stormholloway
Legend
Oh brother. How many times must it be said that these are the unstrung specs. The racquet is heavier than the K90.
PeterFig
Professional
I'll update it with the Asian specs ... had them on an older version but wasn't sure if they were correct.
PeterFig
Professional
Yup, heavier than the K90 and all other previous ProStaff line racquets...
Check out my little spec chart for all the numbers:
Wilson Specs
It's going to be a bit of a beast to play with ... heaviest of all of them so far and lowest balance point.
leonidas1982
Hall of Fame
tarkowski
Professional
Interesting indeed! Like you, I find my serve to benefit most from a heavier, and heavier swinging, racquet. Like mojo noted, I've found that it took some experimenting to find a stick that plays to my strengths while not handicapping my shortcomings. I hadn't thought about it in these terms before, but muscle-fiber composition may play a pretty big part.
The triceps are generally known to be the most powerful skeletal muscle in the body - i.e., have the greatest % of fast-twitch fibers (for many people). As a corollary, this also means that they generally have the least impressive endurance performance. Anyhow, since this is the muscle that is responsible for bringing the racquet head up from the buttocks to just before wrist-snap, it might be one reason that for some people, the serve is least impacted, and in some cases benefited, from a heavier racquet.
The chest and biceps are slower contracting (relative to the triceps), and provide a more balanced % of power and endurance fibers.
I wonder if there have been any official studies on this?
As an interesting aside, I just finished reading Pete's autobiography and there were some references to 'fast-twitch' fibers and his playing style which I found interesting.
As a further aside, I frequently get into debates with some of my tennis buds about who is 'strong' on tour. Obviously, Nadal looks strong, but I would venture a bet that he is more of an endurance athlete - just by the way he chooses to play the game. Strength athletes generally wouldn't want to play so far behind the baseline and run all day. I think physically, they would be more suited to power S&V and trying to end points quickly and powerfully. More like Sampras.
Geez... just filled this text box. Thanks for reading...
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sixthsense
New User
WOW - so awesome, dreams have come true!
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
very, **VERY well said. I felt the same way (especially when serving with the k90).
tennis_vet
New User
Wrt Sw
Folks, all might not be lost wrt swingweight. Take a hypothetical situation: Using the TW Racket Customization tool and using the Aerogel 100 as your base specs, it is possible to create a KProStaff with a SW of ~ 329. In essence you add about 1.1 oz along with the repsective known balances and enter 312 and 329 for swingweights, you will be able to achieve success. The diagram shows that the added weight would be in two locations - the upper handle and upper throat area. Let's hope that Wilson weighted it this way because otherwise you all will be right - a real bloody beast to swing.
Folks, all might not be lost wrt swingweight. Take a hypothetical situation: Using the TW Racket Customization tool and using the Aerogel 100 as your base specs, it is possible to create a KProStaff with a SW of ~ 329. In essence you add about 1.1 oz along with the repsective known balances and enter 312 and 329 for swingweights, you will be able to achieve success. The diagram shows that the added weight would be in two locations - the upper handle and upper throat area. Let's hope that Wilson weighted it this way because otherwise you all will be right - a real bloody beast to swing.
sixthsense
New User
i was shocked as a junior seeing a picture of pete showing off what i thought were his raquet balancing skills to martina hingis by balancing his raquet face down on his finger on the O dampener of his raquet, i hadnt come across lead tape/mods then and was forever trying to do it thinking the F does he do that?!
MichaelChang
Hall of Fame
I always feel heavier rackets are better for serve, and slices.
Pushmaster
Hall of Fame
They're better for everything, if you can handle the weight.
Pushmaster
Hall of Fame
a nice family portrait. i'll take the pretty younger one
"family portrait", lol. :lol:
Hi
I did not ask about it and I did not hear anything about New Federer frame. As for marketing point of view, I think it's a bad ideas for Wilson comming out KPS88 and Federer's frame at the same time so I doubt there will be any new frame for Fed soon.. For sure the KPS88 will come out in January. I was told by a Wilson guy this afternoon that I will have another KPS88 by next week or so.. Let's see if he can deliver..
0d1n
Hall of Fame
I'm not from the US so I can't be "sure" about my level. Never played tennis "competitively" when I was young...the only "sport" I competed in as a kid/adolescent was a Japanese form of martial arts but I "played" tennis, football(soccer) and basketball a fair amount as well.
I'm currently 28 yo, in good shape and I play about 5-6 times a week during the summer and about 3, sometimes (rarely) 4 times a week during the winter (expensive indoors :|). I also play football (soccer) 1-2 times a week since the company I work for pays for it
(helps with footwork 
). During the summer I play with a teaching pro maybe once every 2-3 weeks to work on stuff that needs work (which is everything in my case) and play with 4-5 different partners the rest of the time. I'm sometimes asked to hit with competitive, nationally ranked juniors and can hold my own at least in practice with them up until they get close to 16 years old (there are at least a few ~16 years old juniors around who whip my arse quite badly in matchplay because I can't keep up with their consistent pace off the ground). Given the "ntrp guidelines" and some video I've seen around with (hopefully accurate) ratings I would say I'm 4.0 - 4.5 in your system but I'm not sure.Your post with regards to racket selection is true, and finding that balance can be a very difficult proposition (especially for those of us who can't demo)
Got it, makes sense.
And this makes even better sense
Very interesting input, never thought about it that way (i.e muscle type/composition percentages and their connection with the different shots in tennis).
I do agree with you with regards to "strength" and I have always found Sampras to be a superb athlete with plenty of "explosive power", and I think that in general fast court play favors the "better natural athlete".
I always found I'm naturally more suited for "explosive" movement types (i.e I was always among the very best in sprints/long jumps without much effort/training but not so much in endurance running where I would get my ass kicked in high school/university).
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stormholloway
Legend
I like the chart, but there's some inconsistency with the weight. The Tour 90 should be heavier than the K90 and the PS85, both in ounces and grams, no?
Can you wrist-snap well with a heavier racquet?..... mmmm I don´t think.
yourname1245
Semi-Pro
yeah on the kick... overr pronate the wrist and snap up to get that kick out...
figure it this way if fed is the only guy on tour that plays a 90 and has been playing a 90, then there is a reason for it. i feel that the 90 is total hold back to most of the peoples games. can you return heavy hard hit balls back, maybe sometimes you get lucky but i think not.
-sal
figure it this way if fed is the only guy on tour that plays a 90 and has been playing a 90, then there is a reason for it. i feel that the 90 is total hold back to most of the peoples games. can you return heavy hard hit balls back, maybe sometimes you get lucky but i think not.
-sal
R
roddickslammer
Guest
I wonder if they would make a pPete Sampras ltd. bag like they did with fed?? That would be great!
tarkowski
Professional
LOL - yeah, snapping or popping are probably not good on any of the strokes.
I meant to say pronation.To answer Pet's question, the wrist pronation happens last as part of the kinetic chain, right after the triceps 'throws' up that racquet head. In this case, yeah - I like a heavier racquet.
If I were to just try to pronate my wrist without that kinetic chain, I think it's a bit more tough. For batspeed, I would want a broom handle instead.
Take care
supertrex
Semi-Pro
Hey Jetlee, would you wanna sell some of your St vincent to me? bwelta@ymail.com pls let me know
stormholloway
Legend
It's interesting because even Sampras himself references a "wrist snap" in his biography, but in reality, you don't actively pronate the wrist. The wrist simply reacts passively.
leonidas1982
Hall of Fame
similar to the "backscratch" position.
oh yeah.. the bag is awesome nasty looking bag.. I have one comming soon.. I will post as soon as the Wilson guy see me.. hopefully next week .. that's what he promised..
I have over 30 St. Vincent ranging from 7-10 condition.. Chicago, St. Vincent bumperless, to bumper.. At this moment I am not looking to sell any of those yet but if the price is right who knows.. you can send me a direct mail to discuss it..
Mmmmm, I have seen any of your videos and I must say that you need a lot of work than me for sure.... :twisted:
LafayetteHitter
Hall of Fame
vincent_tennis
Professional
Jetleee
where did u get a new st vince? T_T
where did u get a new st vince? T_T
vincent_tennis
Professional
are they gonna set up any in hk? :]
Pushmaster
Hall of Fame
Jet, I'd be interested in one of those SV's if you have one in a 5/8.
stormholloway
Legend
Ok, but you'll sell the KPS right?
LOL - yeah, snapping or popping are probably not good on any of the strokes.
To answer Pet's question, the wrist pronation happens last as part of the kinetic chain, right after the triceps 'throws' up that racquet head. In this case, yeah - I like a heavier racquet.
If I were to just try to pronate my wrist without that kinetic chain, I think it's a bit more tough. For batspeed, I would want a broom handle instead.
Take care
You definitely DO want to snap your wrist on the serve. To advise people not to which impedes their momentum is to advise them to get injured.
On the serve, the wrist pronates to a neutral postion at impact and the energy transfer causes a rather violent wrist snap afterwards <assuming decent batspeed>..to try and stop that invites injury not to mention a horrible serve.
One could build a case for saying there isnt a wrist snap when the wrist is in a supinated position, but you sure dont want to serve with any sort of supination action
tarkowski
Professional
Hey mojo,
Genuine question: What's the difference between 'snapping' the wrist, and 'pronating with conviction'?
I 'assumed' Drak's remark was more satirical as we love to nit pick on this board. Maybe this was not the case? Anyhow, a satirical remark could interpret 'snapping' as 'breaking' - which we don't want to do to our wrists while serving.
Anyhow, semantic nits aside - I'm in agreement with you that snapping the wrist, as the last step in the kinetic chain before hitting the ball, is a good thing. Breaking the wrist, prior to hitting the ball, is not. ;-)
stormholloway
Legend
Preposterous. There is no active pronation of the wrist during serve. The 'wrist snap' when referenced by pros merely refers to the passive motion of the wrist as the mass of the racquet head carries it after the shoulder pronates. The wrist is loose, but it does not actively pronate. It simply follows the mass of the racquet.
If anything, it will lead to injury and probably take away from the power naturally flowing through the chain. Throwing in a conscious wrist snap on serve is like taking a hammer to your engine block so that the pistons move faster: they move fast enough on their own.
If anything, it will lead to injury and probably take away from the power naturally flowing through the chain. Throwing in a conscious wrist snap on serve is like taking a hammer to your engine block so that the pistons move faster: they move fast enough on their own.
tarkowski
Professional
Hey Storm,
No doubt it is loose - but is it entirely inactive?
I'm always looking to improve so I sincerely welcome the input.
When I consciously observe my motion - it goes something like this (starting with the shoulder):
- rotation of the shoulder
- arm extension (triceps exploding that racquet upward ), and yes - here I feel the weight of the racquet is definitely starting to 'pull' on my arm and my wrist starts to follow as it is pretty loose
- but at the last moment, right before contact, I also feel my index finger acting as a lever over the fulcrum of the inside of my thumb, adding some additional force.
I feel this same sequence regardless of serve. On flat, I'm snapping into the court. On the kicker, I'm snapping up towards the sky. I feel the last step less so on the kicker - not much force on that thumb.
This last step is bad? Does it depend on serve?
Thanks much
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good question. pronation IS a type of wrist snap provided that ones definition of a wrist snap isnt limited to what happens after the neutral/contact point. some people think of the wrist snap as being only after contact
in any case , after witnessing on court how much lessons get confused by the term pronation and how it provides a bad verbal cue, i rarely use the term over the past many years as it mostly just confuses people. sounds impressive i guess. also to tell someone to stop themselves from snapping their wrist on the serve can easily lead to injury
if you know the demonstrative visual cue of swinging into the fence to mimick the serve, that motion does more to describe pronation than anything else i know of, and is also something most people can actually feel, while allowing them to sense how the wrist pronates to get into a good contact position. after the contact the wrist does agressively snap as a result of accumulated energy..to try and stuff that up is just plain dangerous and makes for really bad mechanincs (hooking the shoulder, flying elbow, and all kinds of things precluding a good serve not leading to injury)
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supertrex
Semi-Pro
Hey Jetli did you get my email regarding the pro staff? maybe we can make a deal. bwelta@ymail.com
allez_mike
Rookie
jetlee is one lucky man
drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
Uhmmm, no you don't. Purposely snapping the wrist is what gets people injured. The wrist doesn't snap on the serve. When the wrist goes from the relaxed (laid back) position to neutral, it is because of the forward momentum of the racquet. Nothing more.
stormholloway
Legend
Your index finger will firm, sure. That's just it resisting the racquet's force. Also, something that people might not notice but is essential is shoulder supination, that is outward rotation just before inward rotation. It's brief but critical in building energy in the motion and occurs just after the 'back scratch'. The supination just prior to pronation creates a great deal of centripetal force when ends up translating into racquet head speed, but wrist snapping is a myth. Hi-Tech Tennis goes into it a great deal.
I even used to come around here and blather about wrist snapping but it's false. There are certain active elements that guide the energy through the kinetic chain but the wrist is not actively involved. The racquet has already been set in its proper motion by the time the wrist is involved. Flexing the wrist in any way only restricts this kinetic energy and leads to injury.
NBMJ is correct. This matter has been debated for ever in the Tips section and it gets ugly. Some call it wrist snap and some call it pronation and each side holds its own.
As usual, I rely on real tennis coaches rather than recreational players. About a month back I saw one of those short instruction segments on TTC. It has not yet made it to their web site. In it, a certified pro devotes the entire segment to the wrist snap, and uses the word snap a dozen times. He goes to the extent of demostrating how a student masters it by isolating the snap. He just tosses the ball, and brings it down into the court with only a wrist snap and very little arm motion. Then he demonstrates how to integrate the snap into the regular serve motion.
If he has no problem using the word snap, neither do I. Without the snap, the ball lands outside the service line, and the faster the attempted serve, the more the snap becomes important.
As usual, I rely on real tennis coaches rather than recreational players. About a month back I saw one of those short instruction segments on TTC. It has not yet made it to their web site. In it, a certified pro devotes the entire segment to the wrist snap, and uses the word snap a dozen times. He goes to the extent of demostrating how a student masters it by isolating the snap. He just tosses the ball, and brings it down into the court with only a wrist snap and very little arm motion. Then he demonstrates how to integrate the snap into the regular serve motion.
If he has no problem using the word snap, neither do I. Without the snap, the ball lands outside the service line, and the faster the attempted serve, the more the snap becomes important.
stormholloway
Legend
Yeah, you mean the 'cobra serve'? It's crap.
NBMJ is dead wrong. I just read an article by Vic Braden which completely dismisses any active wrist snap. It's bogus.
The word snap is just a word and last time I checked you don't hit a tennis ball with words. I'm not a great tennis player by any stretch but if you're going to the baseline to serve and then pronating your wrist you're wasting your time and your body. It's simply wrong. I explained it in detail above. If you want to debate my points then by all means.
As for the ball landing outside of the service line without an active wrist snap, that's also false. The 'wrist snap' is simply what the wrist does in response to the accelerating racquet head. The racquet face has no choice but to hit the ball down because you're hitting the ball at the peak of your reach. The racquet face must ultimately swing down. It's centripetal force.
NBMJ is dead wrong. I just read an article by Vic Braden which completely dismisses any active wrist snap. It's bogus.
The word snap is just a word and last time I checked you don't hit a tennis ball with words. I'm not a great tennis player by any stretch but if you're going to the baseline to serve and then pronating your wrist you're wasting your time and your body. It's simply wrong. I explained it in detail above. If you want to debate my points then by all means.
As for the ball landing outside of the service line without an active wrist snap, that's also false. The 'wrist snap' is simply what the wrist does in response to the accelerating racquet head. The racquet face has no choice but to hit the ball down because you're hitting the ball at the peak of your reach. The racquet face must ultimately swing down. It's centripetal force.
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