A Few Questions About Ratings

[luckyskulls]

Sorry if this has been discussed...I looked for old thread, but couldn't find what I was looking for.

My USTA teams are waiting for year-end ratings to come out. Everyone's buzzing about who will get bumped and if they will appeal. Some questions I have:

-If you beat one or more benchmark players during the regular season, will you get bumped up? (I beat 3 benchmarks at 3.5 and 2 at 4.0, I'm rated a 3.5) My record was 13-3 (3.5) 4-8 (4.0), playing #1 singles always.

-Some people are looking on-line and "fake" registering for teams. If there season starts early, apparently ratings are already out?? They don't get to the point of paying, but just before...you can see the rating and lots of 3.5's (on a team that went to Sectionals) are listed as 4.0.

Thank you!

 

[JavierLW]

Sorry if this has been discussed...I looked for old thread, but couldn't find what I was looking for.

My USTA teams are waiting for year-end ratings to come out. Everyone's buzzing about who will get bumped and if they will appeal. Some questions I have:

-If you beat one or more benchmark players during the regular season, will you get bumped up? (I beat 3 benchmarks at 3.5 and 2 at 4.0, I'm rated a 3.5) My record was 13-3 (3.5) 4-8 (4.0), playing #1 singles always.

-Some people are looking on-line and "fake" registering for teams. If there season starts early, apparently ratings are already out?? They don't get to the point of paying, but just before...you can see the rating and lots of 3.5's (on a team that went to Sectionals) are listed as 4.0.

Thank you!

It doesnt matter if someone is a benchmark. Benchmark just means that their rating is partially based on matches played in the playoffs, it doesnt necessarily mean they are at the top of their level or anything.

If I take a wild guess at your record, I would guess you are getting rated up. (and you should want to)

Otherwise you never know until they come out.

Some areas have early start ratings and early start leagues. We dont have these here, so Im not sure where they show up. (perhaps under "find a rating?")

 

[luckyskulls]

It doesnt matter if someone is a benchmark. Benchmark just means that their rating is partially based on matches played in the playoffs, it doesnt necessarily mean they are at the top of their level or anything.

If I take a wild guess at your record, I would guess you are getting rated up. (and you should want to)

Otherwise you never know until they come out.

Some areas have early start ratings and early start leagues. We dont have these here, so Im not sure where they show up. (perhaps under "find a rating?")

Thanks for the info on benchmark players, didn't know that.

My goal for the season was to get bumped up. However, my closer friends are on the 3.5 team and will miss them. I also like playing 2 levels, for more matches and more exercise. There are only a handful of 4.5 teams in my city, so there aren't as many matches.

It's weird...often 3.5 is way to easy and 4.0 I struggled. (I did play in high school and full scholarship tennis with a Division 3 school....but that was....*cough* over ten years ago!!

 

[JLyon]

-Some people are looking on-line and "fake" registering for teams. If there season starts early, apparently ratings are already out?? They don't get to the point of paying, but just before...you can see the rating and lots of 3.5's (on a team that went to Sectionals) are listed as 4.0.

Thank you!

You are thinking of ESR ratings they are mid-year ratings for the Fall Season which falls under 2008 League Season.
The final year-end ratings do not come out until next month and then the appeals start flying in.

 

[amarone]

Some areas have early start ratings and early start leagues. We dont have these here, so Im not sure where they show up.

In Georgia they are shown on the USTA Georgia web site.

 

[raiden031]

If you won half your 4.0 matches, its a no-brainer that you would get moved up (assuming you aren't playing against 3.5 players in the 4.0 league). I've seen people go 1-1 at their own level and get moved up. Or people with a losing record only playing at their own level and get moved up.

 

[Islandtennis]

What JLyon said is correct. The year end ratings will not come out until all of the data from Nationals is added into the dynamic ratings.

 

[beernutz]

Thanks for the info on benchmark players, didn't know that.

My goal for the season was to get bumped up. However, my closer friends are on the 3.5 team and will miss them. I also like playing 2 levels, for more matches and more exercise. There are only a handful of 4.5 teams in my city, so there aren't as many matches.

It's weird...often 3.5 is way to easy and 4.0 I struggled. (I did play in high school and full scholarship tennis with a Division 3 school....but that was....*cough* over ten years ago!!

I think according to this: http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_13_7372.pdf?12/6/2004 4:12:22 PM
you should have self rated as at least a 4.0 and possibly 4.5 depending on how old you are now.

 

[luckyskulls]

I think according to this: http://dps.usta.com/usta_master/usta/doc/content/doc_13_7372.pdf?12/6/2004 4:12:22 PM
you should have self rated as at least a 4.0 and possibly 4.5 depending on how old you are now.

I've read the 4.0 rule before...but I'm computer rated a 3.5 for now. I had a good season a few years ago, then took time off to have a baby. (I'm 35)

People question my rating after matches, but I think it's because I hit the ball hard. Not necessarily consistent.

 

[beernutz]

I've read the 4.0 rule before...but I'm computer rated a 3.5 for now. I had a good season a few years ago, then took time off to have a baby. (I'm 35)

People question my rating after matches, but I think it's because I hit the ball hard. Not necessarily consistent.

So you self-rated at 4.0 then got computer rated down to 3.5?

 

[KFwinds]

If you won half your 4.0 matches, its a no-brainer that you would get moved up (assuming you aren't playing against 3.5 players in the 4.0 league). I've seen people go 1-1 at their own level and get moved up. Or people with a losing record only playing at their own level and get moved up.

Just to clarify, the guy didn't win half his matches at 4.0. He had a 4-8 record, so he played 12 matches and won 4 of them.

However, his record has absolutely no affect on his rating. Only the fact that he won some matches against players who were rated higher.

 

[cknobman]

It doesnt matter if someone is a benchmark. Benchmark just means that their rating is partially based on matches played in the playoffs, it doesnt necessarily mean they are at the top of their level or anything.

Im not sure about this one. Ive been told by the USTA league coordinator in my area that benchmark players are used to judge ratings for other players at the same level(hence the term benchmark). That means if someone beats a benchmark player they will get more computer points then if they beat a "self" or "computer" rated player.

So judging by the record posted by the OP I would have to say that it is a near certainty that a bump will come at the end of the year. Winning against benchmark players at your level and especially the level above you (despite your overall record) will give you enough computer points for a bump.

FYI... The reason I have a little more detailed info on this subject is because we had a problem on my 3.0 and mixed 6.0 team this year and had to find out what was going on from the USTA. We had a 3.0 player who had an excellent spring winning all but 1 of his matches and doint welll in tournaments also. He received a mid season 3.5 bump with according to the USTA you can play tournaments at 3.0 for the remainder of the calendar year but you had to play fall 3.5 USTA leagues. Well the mixed league is a summer leauge and had already started when the mid season bumps occured so he was allowed to continue playing as a 3.0. Well apparently at a tournament during the summer he beat too many of the wrong people because he receieved a call from the USTA. They told him he was not allowed to play and more 3.0 tennis PERIOD. They said he could not finish the season on the 6.0mixed unless he paired with a 2.5 partner, he could not play 3.0 tournaments, he could not go to any 3.0/6.0 sectionals or nationals. He was furious and so was the teams he played on. We contacted the USTA and demanded some official reasoning for what they did. They explained the entire rating system and what goes on. Everyone gets points for each win they aqquire at a given level. If you accumulate too many points too fast you get a strike on your record. Players who get strikes on their records are subject to get bumped and usually do. If a player gets 3 strikes they are considered OUT of the level and cannot play at that level for any reason any longer. That is what happened to my teammate he beat benchmark 3.0 and high rated 3.0 players and aqquired too many points too fast and recieved 3 strikes on his record, therefore immediatley disqualifying him from playing any more 3.0 tennis regardless of situation.

 

[JLyon]

Just an update on my end from an appeal rate. Apparently if you self-rate and fill out your player profile correctly played scrub #6-7 at an NAIA school 15 years ago you are a 4.5, but if you self-rate now and play currently at a DII school you can be a 4.0.

 

[Caswell]

Im not sure about this one. Ive been told by the USTA league coordinator in my area that benchmark players are used to judge ratings for other players at the same level (hence the term benchmark). That means if someone beats a benchmark player they will get more computer points then if they beat a "self" or "computer" rated player.

Think of a benchmark player as a proxy.

The USTA's goal is to treat the national winnners as the standard for their flight, and rate everyone accordingly. Someone who's played in reginals, sectionals, or nationals has match results that are fewer degrees of seperation from the national winners. Scores don't matter - you could go to reginals and get blown out 6-0, 6-0 in every match and still get tagged with a "benchmark" rating.

If you want more confirmation that benchmark does not mean the top of the flight, look at players who advance to championship level play in one flight and get bumped up to the next at the end of the year. A few guys on our 3.0 team last year got bumped up to 3.5, so they're at the low end of 3.5 but still have a "benchmark" rating.

Now, from what I understand the scores from championship level play have more weight in your year-end rating than the local results. It wouldn't surprise me if local play against a benchmark player was weighted differently, somewhere between pure local play and true championship level play. That doesn't always help though - if you win but have a close match with a benchmark player who's actually near the bottom of the flight it would bring you down even more.

 

[JavierLW]

Think of a benchmark player as a proxy.

The USTA's goal is to treat the national winnners as the standard for their flight, and rate everyone accordingly. Someone who's played in reginals, sectionals, or nationals has match results that are fewer degrees of seperation from the national winners. Scores don't matter - you could go to reginals and get blown out 6-0, 6-0 in every match and still get tagged with a "benchmark" rating.

If you want more confirmation that benchmark does not mean the top of the flight, look at players who advance to championship level play in one flight and get bumped up to the next at the end of the year. A few guys on our 3.0 team last year got bumped up to 3.5, so they're at the low end of 3.5 but still have a "benchmark" rating.

Now, from what I understand the scores from championship level play have more weight in your year-end rating than the local results. It wouldn't surprise me if local play against a benchmark player was weighted differently, somewhere between pure local play and true championship level play. That doesn't always help though - if you win but have a close match with a benchmark player who's actually near the bottom of the flight it would bring you down even more.

Right as I said, benchmark doesnt mean top of level.

I understand the same thing as you, half of their year end rating is based on their highest championship level play.

Local play is local play though whether it's against a benchmark, computer, or self rate. It's possible that they weigh those slightly diffrent (perhaps by counting them as more than a full match or less than a full match), but of course they would never tell us that and there is no way to know for sure.

(although everything that they did tell us about the rating system suggests how the local matchs are figured into the equation in general)

Just because someone got 3 strikes and happened to have played a benchmark player in the process is a coincedence probally. He could of just as easily beaten a computer or a self rated player and had the same thing happen.

It's even more likely in a lot of cases that your benchmark player has a LOWER rating (because half of their rating is based on chamipionship play where they didnt blow everyone away or even lost miserably), then your average successful computer ranked player. So beating them would do less for bringing up your rating.