A general discussion - Should there be a roof at all big non-slam events?

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Well, as we've seen this year in Indian wells & now Miami masters, the rain has disrupted play & the scheduling afterwards would inevitably end up being unfair to some players; which is a sad outcome.

Throughout the last few years, we've been witnessing abrupt & unpredictable rain delays due to the Climate Change that has been slowly but steadily creeping up to every part of the world.

At this stage, all slams have roofs over at least 2 main courts, with RG's 2nd show court (court Suzanne Lenglen) joining the party this year. AO has the highest number of them all with 3 roofs. Despite that, I think that slams should consider having 4 courts with retractable roofs.

In my opinion, to adapt to these weather abnormalities which are only going to increase in the numbers in future; and to make sure that the flow of the non-slam tournaments; especially the big ones such as master's 1000s and 500s, should have roofs over the top two show courts.

Ofcourse, there are indoor tournaments & some outdoor ones as well with roofs such as Madrid, Halle, Shanghai etc.

The money should be spent on infrastructure as well, to make sure the sport doesn't have the "lag factor".

To summarise, I've suggested two things here and would love to hear from you guys about it. You may vote and share your opinions as well.

1) Increse the number of roofed courts at slams to 4.
2) Build roofs on 2 show courts at Master's 1000s and 500s.

 

[TripleATeam]

Yeah. We need rooves since rain happens, and can be nonstop for days. That sort of delay is unacceptable for competitors (and for fans), as it can make them play multiple rounds in a day.

Rain delay on that level might not happen often, but it does happen. Even the possibility of it happening should be incentive to have at least 20% of the courts be equipped with rooves.

 

[Hitman]

Yes.

 

[StrongRule]

Clay courts definitely should never have roofs. We don't have a clay slam anymore since 2019.

 

[Hitman]

Clay courts definitely should never have roofs. We don't have a clay slam anymore since 2019.

Madrid and RG both have roofs. Rome should get one also. Only MC won't get away with it, since it is a club, and the set up is temporary.

 

[StrongRule]

Madrid and DO both have roofs.

Fixed.

 

[insideguy]

Guys Wimbledon and the French didnt have roofs for 100 years. They always had rain delays. Forever. And half this board hated that they were building roofs there. Now you want roofs everywhere.

 

[InsuranceMan]

Yeah the roofs are just going to pop out of thin air because TTW thinks so. Construction? Money? Multiuse venues? What are those? While we’re at it I wonder what TTW thinks about me getting a new car, would love an Audi R8. Audi needs to hook me up then, but I need “at least 2”

 

[insideguy]

Yeah the roofs are just going to pop out of thin air because TTW thinks so. Construction? Money? Multiuse venues? What are those? While we’re at I wonder what TTW thinks about me getting a new car, would love an Audi R8. Audi needs to hook me up then, but I need “at least 2”

All tournaments in England need roofs! And the ones in Germany and Italy too. And South America! And France! They all need roofs cause I want to watch my tennis when I want to watch it! Wait lets just move all tournaments to places where there are roofs! I think Charleston is next for the WTA they need a roof to!

 

[InsuranceMan]

All tournaments in England need roofs! And the ones in Germany and Italy too. And South America! And France! They all need roofs cause I want to watch my tennis when I want to watch it! Wait lets just move all tournaments to places where there are roofs! I think Charleston is next for the WTA they need a roof to!

Wow, I understand there’s a money issue in tennis and we can’t even pay our players well enough to do right by them…

But damn they need to all shell out for roofs because I say so because I’m bored. This rain is just unconscionable

 

[taster]

Yeah the roofs are just going to pop out of thin air because TTW thinks so. Construction? Money? Multiuse venues? What are those? While we’re at it I wonder what TTW thinks about me getting a new car, would love an Audi R8. Audi needs to hook me up then, but I need “at least 2”

Well said.
Of course there's always a cost benefit analysis involved, at what point does the loss in revenue incurred by rain delays offset the huge costs of roofs. Presumably that threshold hasn't been met.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Yes.

Yes yes but in yellow

 

[Hitman]

Fixed.

Hamburg also had a roof. The more roofs the better.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Clay courts definitely should never have roofs. We don't have a clay slam anymore since 2019.

So you're basically saying we should let rain wash away entire sessions or days?
Not exactly good for tennis imo.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Yeah the roofs are just going to pop out of thin air because TTW thinks so. Construction? Money? Multiuse venues? What are those? While we’re at it I wonder what TTW thinks about me getting a new car, would love an Audi R8. Audi needs to hook me up then, but I need “at least 2”

You're comparing apples to oranges here.
Tournaments don't lack money, and spending it on infrastructure is the best thing.

 

[Hitman]

So you're basically saying we should let rain wash away entire sessions or days?
Not exactly good for tennis imo.

Roofs help with the natural progression of the tournament, it also means, certain players are not put at a disadvantage of playing catch up, while other players are safely a round or even two rounds ahead.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Roofs help with the natural progression of the tournament, it also means, certain players are not put at a disadvantage of playing catch up, while other players are safely a round or even two rounds ahead.

Definitely, tournaments would progress at the pace they should be moving ahead.
Because let's face it, the climate change is inevitably going to disrupt the predictability of weather even more in the upcoming years; so the earlier we prepare the better.

 

[Hitman]

Definitely, tournaments would progress at the pace they should be moving ahead.
Because let's face it, the climate change is inevitably going to disrupt the predictability of weather even more in the upcoming years; so the earlier we prepare the better.

Even without climate change, tennis needs to move forward. The main events on the tour should have roofs in place. It is also good for the paying fans who don't get short changed due to washouts, plus all the manic scheduling will always leave someone with the short straw.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Yeah. We need rooves since rain happens, and can be nonstop for days. That sort of delay is unacceptable for competitors (and for fans), as it can make them play multiple rounds in a day.

Rain delay on that level might not happen often, but it does happen. Even the possibility of it happening should be incentive to have at least 20% of the courts be equipped with rooves.

Clay courts definitely should never have roofs. We don't have a clay slam anymore since 2019.

Yes.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Even without climate change, tennis needs to move forward. The main events on the tour should have roofs in place. It is also good for the paying fans who don't get short changed due to washouts, plus all the manic scheduling will always leave someone with the short straw.

Yes, the scheduling messups can be brutal. If I remember correctly, Djokovic happened to play about 3 matches in a 36 hour window at Rome in 2021.
Rafa was screwed badly at times too, and so was Roger.

 

[nolefam_2024]

If there are roofs, then will Rafans accept that Roof or No roof a win is a win?

 

[Hitman]

Yes, the scheduling messups can be brutal. If I remember correctly, Djokovic happened to play about 3 matches in a 36 hour window at Rome in 2021.
Rafa was screwed badly at times too, and so was Roger.

Yep, and how exactly does that lead to good quality? Treat the event as an outdoor event, and only use the roof if it is absolutely needed.

 

[MichaelNadal]

They all probably will eventually. Though some places are going to lose their iconic aesthetics bc of it

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Yep, and how exactly does that lead to good quality? Treat the event as an outdoor event, and only use the roof if it is absolutely needed.

Well thank you

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

They all probably will eventually. Though some places are going to lose their iconic aesthetics bc of it

Well, if the roof is retractable, the iconic aesthetics can still be maintained in some form.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

It very rarely rains at Indian Wells. Something like 98% of the matches proceed without rain delay. Maybe more.
Tough to justify building a roof. Ideally, the surface/conditions should be consistent throughout a tournament.
Instead of suddenly shifting an outdoor event to indoors. Tennis at Palm Springs is meant to be played outdoors.
Just let it be.

 

[taster]

Even without climate change, tennis needs to move forward. The main events on the tour should have roofs in place. It is also good for the paying fans who don't get short changed due to washouts, plus all the manic scheduling will always leave someone with the short straw.

Climate change is something of a none sequitur in this context. We're specifically talking about rain, and while it's true there's been an increase in precipitation over the last hundred years, it's incremental - there's no paradigm shift in it's behaviour - yes, it's getting wetter, but very very slowly (see IPCC).
And what's crucial is the number of matches effected by weather. If the overwhelming majority aren't effected - and that's the case, your building a roof for those occasional bad years, and the revenue that is presumably lost (can you quantify that?) must justify the high cost of a roof.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

It very rarely rains at Indian Wells. Something like 98% of the matches proceed without rain delay. Maybe more.
Tough to justify building a roof. Ideally, the surface/conditions should be consistent throughout a tournament.
Instead of suddenly shifting an outdoor event to indoors. Tennis at Palm Springs is meant to be played outdoors.
Just let it be.

Treat the tournament as an outdoor one and only use the roof for the time rain is pouring.
How does that change playing conditions?

 

[BeatlesFan]

For those demanding a roof at IW, the average rainfall in March is 0.28 inches (7.8 mm) and most years no rain falls in March. I realize Larry Ellison is a billionaire, but the climate absolutely does not require a 220 million dollar retractable roof. It's utterly insane in a place that gets so little rain. Talk about not being cost effective.

In contrast, Miami's annual rainfall is 62 inches. IW is 7 inches.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Treat the tournament as an outdoor one and only use the roof for the time rain is pouring.
How does that change playing conditions?

Ideally, an outdoor tournament should strive to hold all of its matches outdoors. Likewise an indoor tournament matches should be held indoors.
Some players play much better outdoors vs indoors. And vice versa.
Suddenly moving an outdoors Indian Wells Final to indoors abruptly changes the playing conditions of the tournament.
Tennis has a longstanding outdoor tradition.
Indian Wells is best left as is. Rain delays are very very rare there.

But *IF* a roof is to be built, not one penny of taxpayer funds should be used. It needs to be funded *PRIVATELY!*

There is nothing more obscene than Ellison and his billionaire friends going cap in hand to taxpayers to fund a roof when California is falling apart.

 

[StrongRule]

So you're basically saying we should let rain wash away entire sessions or days?
Not exactly good for tennis imo.

Sure, it's better to play in insufferable conditions which are only good for players like Djokovic, because they turn clay into basically red hardcourt.

 

[soldat]

It very rarely rains at Indian Wells. Something like 98% of the matches proceed without rain delay. Maybe more.
Tough to justify building a roof. Ideally, the surface/conditions should be consistent throughout a tournament.
Instead of suddenly shifting an outdoor event to indoors. Tennis at Palm Springs is meant to be played outdoors.
Just let it be.

I think all stadium courts deserve a roof, if the engineering technology and costs allows for it.

Tennis is a leisure sport, modern wealthy countries have additional resources which can be invested in such activities, so I think adding a retractable roof wherever possible is going to be only positive for the sport.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

I think all stadium courts deserve a roof, if the engineering technology and costs allows for it.

Tennis is a leisure sport, modern wealthy countries have additional resources which can be invested in such activities, so I think adding a retractable roof wherever possible is going to be only positive for the sport.

In the case of Indian Wells, the State of CA should not be investing one penny to add a roof. Not one penny.
It needs to be entirely funded thru private donations. Let them raise the price of their $50 hamburgers and $20 sodas.

But we know that will never happen. Indian Wells officials will shamelessly come begging cap in hand to fund a roof.

 

[MeatTornado]

Of course it would be nice if all events magically had a bunch of retractable roofs.

But if I was in charge of a tournament, its very unlikely I could justify the expense.

 

[soldat]

In the case of Indian Wells, the State of CA should not be investing one penny to add a roof. Not one penny.
It needs to be entirely funded thru private donations. Let them raise the price of their $50 hamburgers and $20 sodas.

But we know that will never happen. Indian Wells will shamelessly come begging cap in hand to fund a roof.

Those that stand to profit are actually the construction firms and the downstream supply chain.

I like tennis as a sport a bit more than football or soccer, so as long as the costs allow for it I think the state of CA could pay for a new roof. They could e.g. vote to reduce their tax commitment to military suppliers and divert some resources to the promotion of tennis, adding new retractable roofs where it makes sense.

To be fair, only players playing in those particular tournaments in those courts would benefit, so another possibility would be to devote resources to create more tennis tournaments and leagues in the process so the courts get more use as well.

Retractable roofs, year round leagues and tournaments, combined with advertising and ticket sales, this kind of concentrated effort could see tennis become the no. 1 most popular and viewed sport in the US.

 

[Impetus]

I think It's charming the weather also has an opinion.

It's good to be bored every now and then and wait for what you really want. Instant gratification doesn't make us happier.

 

[CHIP72]

LOL, some people act as if all these tournaments need to do is snap their fingers and voila, the roofs are installed! Money is not an issue!

In an ideal world, of course many tournaments would have retractable roof stadiums, in some cases on multiple courts. But unless you've been living under a rock, you know we aren't living in an ideal world. Retractable roofs are a "nice to have" at Masters (and lower level) events but not a "must have". If they can be built, that would be great, but if they can't/won't, so be it.

 

[CHIP72]

So you're basically saying we should let rain wash away entire sessions or days?
Not exactly good for tennis imo.

If you want to pony up the $150 million USD to build a roof (the cost for the roof covering/surrounding Ashe Stadium that was built between late 2014 and mid-2016) or a similar amount, be my guest.

 

[The Blond Blur]

If there are roofs, then will Rafans accept that Roof or No roof a win is a win?

There’s a difference between using a roof when it’s needed due to rain vs using it when there’s not a cloud in the sky No need to try and derail the thread.

 

[DSH]

Clay courts definitely should never have roofs. We don't have a clay slam anymore since 2019.

Because of the organizers, Roland Garros became the DO and defined the slam race forever.

 

[DSH]

 

[mtommer]

Yeah the roofs are just going to pop out of thin air because TTW thinks so

But, but.....TTW posters want it. They have to.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

If you want to pony up the $150 million USD to build a roof (the cost for the roof covering/surrounding Ashe Stadium that was built between late 2014 and mid-2016) or a similar amount, be my guest.

If it did cost $150000000 to build just a couple of roof, I'm smelling something fishy & a massive corruption scandal.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Sure, it's better to play in insufferable conditions which are only good for players like Djokovic, because they turn clay into basically red hardcourt.

Djokovic won't even be around after 2025.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Ideally, an outdoor tournament should strive to hold all of its matches outdoors. Likewise an indoor tournament matches should be held indoors.
Some players play much better outdoors vs indoors. And vice versa.
Suddenly moving an outdoors Indian Wells Final to indoors abruptly changes the playing conditions of the tournament.
Tennis has a longstanding outdoor tradition.
Indian Wells is best left as is. Rain delays are very very rare there.

But *IF* a roof is to be built, not one penny of taxpayer funds should be used. It needs to be funded *PRIVATELY!*

There is nothing more obscene than Ellison and his billionaire friends going cap in hand to taxpayers to fund a roof when California is falling apart.

If taxpayers are fine with hundreds of billions of dollars being fed to arms' companies who feed the war in Ukraine, why do they have a problem with a few millions being spent on infrastructure development?

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

If taxpayers are fine with hundreds of billions of dollars being fed to arms' companies who feed the war in Ukraine, why do they have a problem with a few millions being spent on infrastructure development?

Congress funds wars if it is deemed to be in the interests of national defense and national security interests.
Not all taxpayers agree with arming Ukraine but at least there is a basis for considering it. Governments also fund public infrastructure such as roads.
Spending on public infrastructure such as broken roads and mass transportation is the top priority.

Indian Wells Garden, as a private entity, should fund the roof themselves.
Indian Wells earns plenty of profit, do they not? Why can't they build their own roof?

 

[MichaelNadal]

I'm still shook they managed to build one on Ashe. I remember it was hard for them to find a way to do it with the way the stadium was built.

 

[a10best]

Roofs can and should be built at Masters 1000s as the company earns enough profit and if they somehow don't currently they can use the enclosed stadium for concerts and other events off-season. With all the climate change believers building a roof is a no-brainer. Make a portion of the roof solar to save on electrical costs.

 

[Hitman]

Roofs can and should be built at Masters 1000s as the company earns enough profit and if they somehow don't currently they can use the enclosed stadium for concerts and other events off-season. With all the climate change believers building a roof is a no-brainer. Make a portion of the roof solar to save on electrical costs.

Can't be done over MC though, as that whole set up is temporary.