A massive moment?

That may be the first major match in many years where one of the big three simply didn’t look capable of beating a much younger opponent.

We’ve all seen it in the old days with Rosewall against Connors, McEnroe against Agassi, Agassi against Nadal. Matches where, no matter what the older player did, they simply didn’t look capable of winning: they looked rather like a remnant of a previous generation whose time has passed.

This match had that feeling.

Is this the natural tennis order finally being restored?
 

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
Hope so. But time and time again we’ve said this and nothing come out of it. But eventually we’ve got to be right.
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
That may be the first major match in many years where one of the big three simply didn’t look capable of beating a much younger opponent.

We’ve all seen it in the old days with Rosewall against Connors, McEnroe against Agassi, Agassi against Nadal. Matches where, no matter what the older player did, they simply didn’t look capable of winning: they looked rather like a remnant of a previous generation whose time has passed.

This match had that feeling.

Is this the natural tennis order finally being restored?
Obviously you have never played tennis or any competitive sport at a high level. He had his chances today. Zverev was just too clutch in the big moments which is a great turnaround for him.

He lost to David Goffin last year at the WTF in a less competitive match. Did you get "that feeling" then too?
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
Djokovic vs. Khachanov was that match.
Djoker's pusher-style just didn't work. Of course, he claimed he was ill and stuff
Like today no excuses, it was peak Fed. Just like at Paris it was peak Djokovic. Everyone is constantly improving and reaching new heights, therefore every single match that's played they raise the bar a little more.
 

Newballs

Professional
Seriously?
Did you just wonder out of the ether to post this?
Rog has been done for a while now (by his lofty standards).
 
Obviously you have never played tennis or any competitive sport at a high level. He had his chances today. Zverev was just too clutch in the big moments which is a great turnaround for him.

He lost to David Goffin last year at the WTF in a less competitive match. Did you get "that feeling" then too?
Why would I say one of the big three looked old against a young player after a match against a guy three weeks short of 27 years of age? That would be absurd. To even suggest it is an embarrassment.

Never mind playing sport at a high level, do you even watch tennis outside of Federer matches?
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
If you take the Big 3 out, weak field is all you have left. Not great players.
Well, my point is that I want to see the new generation prove themselves and force the Big 3 out. I don't want the Big 3 to just go away and leave nothing behind (obviously).
IOTW, I've been expecting the new generation of world-beating elites forever
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
Why would I say one of the big three looked old against a young player after a match against a guy three weeks short of 27 years of age? That would be absurd. To even suggest it is an embarrassment.

Never mind playing sport at a high level, do you even watch tennis outside of Federer matches?
Yep, I've never watched matches outside Federer despite my favorite being Lleyton Hewitt. Alright. I can say I've watched more matches outside Federer than you have made insightless troll threads based around your hatred of Roger Federer.

Why wouldn't you? You aren't the most well versed guy in terms of tennis knowledge despite the fact you try to hide behind euphemisms and eloquent typing to distract people from the very simple fact that you have zero idea what you're talking about.
 
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Deleted member 307496

Guest
Why would I say one of the big three looked old against a young player after a match against a guy three weeks short of 27 years of age? That would be absurd. To even suggest it is an embarrassment.

Never mind playing sport at a high level, do you even watch tennis outside of Federer matches?
Yep, I've never watched matches outside Federer despite my favorite being Lleyton Hewitt. Alright. I can say I've watched more matches outside Federer than you have made insightless troll threads based around your hatred of Roger Federer.

Why wouldn't you? You aren't the most well versed guy in terms of tennis knowledge despite the fact you try to hide behind euphemisms and eloquent typing to distract people from the very simple fact that you have zero idea what you're talking about.
 

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
I never felt like he couldn't win the match until the ballboy incident. I knew it was over then. He had just belted a BH and had the upperhand in the point. No reasonable observer ever thought the match was unwinnable for Federer. OP is getting worse with every thread displaying his hate for Federer with ridiculous and utterly asinine remarks.
 
Yep, I've never watched matches outside Federer despite my favorite being Lleyton Hewitt. Alright. I can say I've watched more matches outside Federer than you have made insightless troll threads based around your hatred of Roger Federer.

Why wouldn't you? You aren't the most well versed guy in terms of tennis knowledge despite the fact you try to hide behind euphemisms and eloquent typing to distract people from the very simple fact that you have zero idea what you're talking about.
If you think 26 years and 11 months is young for a tennis player you’re clearly new to the game.

Stick around. You’ll get the hang of it.
 
I never felt like he couldn't win the match until the ballboy incident. I knew it was over then. He had just belted a BH and had the upperhand in the point. No reasonable observer ever thought the match was unwinnable for Federer. OP is getting worse with every thread displaying his hate for Federer with ridiculous and utterly asinine remarks.
Goodness. Are we not allowed to say that Federer is finally looking his age, and today was possibly the emergence of a genuine young talent?

You’d better ask for this thread to be deleted along with the others remotely critical of Roger. Then you can have your little safe space.
 

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
Goodness. Are we not allowed to say that Federer is finally looking his age, and today was possibly the emergence of a genuine young talent?

You’d better ask for this thread to be deleted along with the others remotely critical of Roger. Then you can have your little safe space.
That's not what you said. You said he wasn't capable and that's a damn joke. He just took your boy to three sets in Paris, won Basel and topped his group in the WTF. Stop talking out of your *** and someone around here might just take you seriously.
 
That's not what you said. You said he wasn't capable and that's a damn joke. He just took your boy to three sets in Paris, won Basel and topped his group in the WTF. Stop talking out of your *** and someone around here might just take you seriously.
I said this may be a turning point. The first time a young player looked as if he had one of the big three’s numbers.

It really isn’t a remotely controversial comment if you’re actually a tennis fan and have followed the game for any length of time.

Rosewall has the most slams of any male player; it wasn’t a “damn joke” or an insult to say that he didn’t look capable of beating Connors in the Wimbledon final. It was simply a statement of fact.

As is this thread.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
I said this may be a turning point. The first time a young player looked as if he had one of the big three’s numbers.

It really isn’t a remotely controversial comment if you’re actually a tennis fan and have followed the game for any length of time.

Rosewall has the most slams of any male player; it wasn’t a “damn joke” or an insult to say that he didn’t look capable of beating Connors in the Wimbledon final. It was simply a statement of fact.

As is this thread.
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Roger had 2 critical points in the first set at 15-30 where he hit unforced errors, including a 2nd serve slice return long. He could have jumped on him early and rode the momentum, but he just missed. Might have been a very different story. Then he obviously had his chances in the tiebreaker. So I wouldn't say he looked "incapable" of beating his younger opponent. But he just got outplayed from the ground, and he had no serve to bail himself out, which would have cost him against any opponent.

This also is far from the first time Roger's looked like this. Check out the Coric matches in Halle & Shanghai.
 

metsman

Talk Tennis Guru
This says more about how bad Federer was than about how good Zverev was
yeah, like it's good that a crappy Fed isn't waltzing into the YEC final, but when he still gets kinda close to it against the best of the next gen it's still pretty sad.

Oh well, Zverev has played well this week so that's something. But we know he can play well in B03 (well being relative to this era).
 

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
I said this may be a turning point. The first time a young player looked as if he had one of the big three’s numbers.

It really isn’t a remotely controversial comment if you’re actually a tennis fan and have followed the game for any length of time.

Rosewall has the most slams of any male player; it wasn’t a “damn joke” or an insult to say that he didn’t look capable of beating Connors in the Wimbledon final. It was simply a statement of fact.

As is this thread.
5-7 in the first and on serve until the last game and up a break in the 2nd set is incapable of beating someone you say. Total rubbish.
 

Poisoned Slice

Bionic Poster
giphy.gif
 
Roger had 2 critical points in the first set at 15-30 where he hit unforced errors, including a 2nd serve slice return long. He could have jumped on him early and rode the momentum, but he just missed. Might have been a very different story. Then he obviously had his chances in the tiebreaker. So I wouldn't say he looked "incapable" of beating his younger opponent. But he just got outplayed from the ground, and he had no serve to bail himself out, which would have cost him against any opponent.

This also is far from the first time Roger's looked like this. Check out the Coric matches in Halle & Shanghai.
I understand what you are saying, but I’m talking about matches at major events.

Even Agassi had ‘critical’ moments in the first set against Nadal at Wimbledon in 2006, but it never felt as if he was going to win.

It’s a feeling thing. If you’ve watched the game through as many generations, changes of racquet, changes of surface as I have you get a feeling for these things.

For the first time, I got that feeling today with one of the big 3.

Time will tell who is right.
 
5-7 in the first and on serve until the last game and up a break in the 2nd set is incapable of beating someone you say. Total rubbish.
It was a straight sets defeat for one of the Big 3 in a major tournament, where the young victor didn’t really have to break into a sweat.

A potential turning point in tennis.

Exciting!
 

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
It was a straight sets defeat for one of the Big 3 in a major tournament, where the young victor didn’t really have to break into a sweat.

A potential turning point in tennis.

Exciting!
I'm fine with Zverev doing some damage in the future. If you read the match thread, you'll see that. I'll be pulling for him tomorrow in fact. The point I'm trying to make is that Federer was never out of the match. He was very much in it, but the better guy won today.
 
I'm fine with Zverev doing some damage in the future. If you read the match thread, you'll see that. I'll be pulling for him tomorrow in fact. The point I'm trying to make is that Federer was never out of the match. He was very much in it, but the better guy won today.
I disagree. He went down without much of a fight at all. A significant moment, I feel.

And it’s hardly a surprise that you would be pulling for him tomorrow. Why weren’t you pulling for him today?
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
I understand what you are saying, but I’m talking about matches at major events.

Even Agassi had ‘critical’ moments in the first set against Nadal at Wimbledon in 2006, but it never felt as if he was going to win.

It’s a feeling thing. If you’ve watched the game through as many generations, changes of racquet, changes of surface as I have you get a feeling for these things.

For the first time, I got that feeling today with one of the big 3.

Time will tell who is right.
I shall defer to your 150 year old wisdom :rolleyes:
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
If Zverev defeats Novak Djokovic tomorrow, then yes it will be something of a turning point - the first time a Next Gen player wins one of the 5 biggest tournaments in tennis, and beating 2 of the big 3 to do so. Until then, it’s just a Bo3 victory over a 37-year old man.

Really though, we need Zverev or someone else from his generation to win a slam. Only then will they have truly proven they belong in the big time.
 

Pheasant

Legend
I don’t feel that Fed is at the point that he will be dominated by Zverev just yet. If Fed and Zverev meet at the 2019 AO, I would still bet on Fed. Fed is much more of a roller coaster these days, however. It is amazing how he looked great against Kandy, yet horrible against Zverev. Fed can play like a world #3 one match, then like a world #80 the next match.

With that being said, I highly doubt that Fed will finish in the top 5 in 2019. I predict that Fed will finish 8th in 2019. And this time, he won’t be able to change rackets to bail him out
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
A massive moment?

Grand slam winners this year

AO = Federer
RG = Nadal
W = Djokovic
USO = Djokovic


Top three ranking positions

1 = Djokovic
2 = Nadal
3 = Federer

When this changes, then we have a massive moment. Zverev has potential, and the right attitude, he wants to be out there and be the best, but until he wins this title, it is not a massive moment. Beating a 37 Federer 7-5, 7-6 isn't Federer getting crushed, that is a difference of a few points here and there. IF he can pull out a win tomorrow in the final, then lets talk about a real change, at the moment, it is nothing we haven't seen before, a player beats one of the big three and then promptly loses to the next one. Have to beat them all.
 
A massive moment?

Grand slam winners this year

AO = Federer
RG = Nadal
W = Djokovic
USO = Djokovic


Top three ranking positions

1 = Djokovic
2 = Nadal
3 = Federer

When this changes, then we have a massive moment. Zverev has potential, and the right attitude, he wants to be out there and be the best, but until he wins this title, it is not a massive moment. Beating a 37 Federer 7-5, 7-6 isn't Federer getting crushed, that is a difference of a few points here and there. IF he can pull out a win tomorrow in the final, then lets talk about a real change, at the moment, it is nothing we haven't seen before, a player beats one of the big three and then promptly loses to the next one. Have to beat them all.
Some of that is true. Which is why I used a question mark in the thread title rather than an exclamation mark.

But pointing out who won the slams and their ranking positions this season past is -obviously- utterly redundant when discussing major turning points in tennis.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
A massive moment?

Grand slam winners this year

AO = Federer
RG = Nadal
W = Djokovic
USO = Djokovic


Top three ranking positions

1 = Djokovic
2 = Nadal
3 = Federer

When this changes, then we have a massive moment. Zverev has potential, and the right attitude, he wants to be out there and be the best, but until he wins this title, it is not a massive moment. Beating a 37 Federer 7-5, 7-6 isn't Federer getting crushed, that is a difference of a few points here and there. IF he can pull out a win tomorrow in the final, then lets talk about a real change, at the moment, it is nothing we haven't seen before, a player beats one of the big three and then promptly loses to the next one. Have to beat them all.

I agree and arguably, even winning this tournament isn’t enough. It’s winning a slam.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Some of that is true. Which is why I used a question mark rather than an exclamation mark.

But pointing out who won the slams and their ranking positions this season past is -obviously- utterly redundant when discussing major turning points in tennis.

Not really.

There is no turning point until someone new holds one of the big events, those are the current holders, and that will not change after Zverev win today. Lets see him step up tomorrow and beat Djokovic, should Novak be there and then you will be onto something. We have seen this played out many times before, not easy to take out the trio of Federer Nadal and Djokovic, if one doesn't get you, the other most likely will.
 
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