Discussion in 'Strings' started by superstition, Oct 11, 2008.
That's my view.
Plus, putting gut in the name doesn't make it gut.
I don't even think natural gut is worth $25 a set. No string is worth that much since they all need to be replaced so quickly.
It depends upon the player. Not everyone breaks gut quickly and it retains its playability until it breaks.
It loses tension, doesn't it? All strings do.
Yea, I'd have to agree with BP here. Guts, natural and all, are really consumable goods. They don't last all that long to cost $20+ at each replacement. I know some people go thru 3+ packs a week, that really adds up fast.
Double post, sorry
Natural gut is the best string for tension maintenance. If you pre-stretch it properly, it will not lose that much tension and will be playable until it breaks.
Old school flat hitting players have used natural gut in a cost effective manner, in my experience. One or two months during the peak of the season, vs one or two synthetic re stringing per week. The multi's on the market don't come close and I find that the value of the so higher priced strings isn't really seen by the 4.5 and below group I service.
$25 too much for multi? Yes, most probably.
As for nat gut, if you gripe at it being $25, or even $30, come to Thailand. The VS Babolat is about US$75, stringing included.
definitely it is too much, but the mini-reel of K-gut comes to 10 dollars a stringjob.
I'm not the only person who has remarked that VS 17 plays the best when the mains have thinned, before it breaks.
My beef with high priced synthetic strings in general is that they seem to be price arbitrarily. I would guess the manufacturing of any string is less than a $1, so the manufacturing costs for the most and least expensive man made strings are almost the same. So to summarize, I feel like I am getting ripped of with expensive multis.
I'm sure VS costs a lot more to make than a nylon synthetic.
Oops... I accidentally clicked yes! Oh well.
To answer the question, IMO a multi shouldn't cost more than $12 a set. The KGUTs selling for over $20 probably costs Wilson just a few bucks.
I agree with BP when he noted no string is worth $25, but that is a lower price for a good quality gut. If you want to play gut, you have to pay the premium.
I noticed 3 votes for multi being worth $25..that is a joke. I bet I know at least 2 of the 3 "experts" that voted for. They are, IMO, the most clueless "experts" on tennis string.
As for me, I use gut. I string my own racquets and having gut actually saves me money and time. If I used my Gosen on a full racquet job, It would last maybe 3 sessions. But the gut lasts me much longer. I won't use anything lese but nat gut on my main racquets (at least in the mains). I don't mind crossing the Gosen.
1. No one experiences gut or multi in such an abstract way; they use a specific string. So the question needs to be answered.
2. There's only one string out that's $25 a set (and it's a "solid-core" multifilament, at that): Prince's Recoil. Since that's what you mean, apparently, now, why not ask it that way too?
3. And, Azzuri, there's really no need to guess who's "answered" what--when you click the "View Poll Results" link, it's there for all to see.
What do these people who vote in favor of that still unnamed multifilament still have to fear from you, though? Getting bashed elsewhere in the forum from afar too, I'd say--as you've just done to those still-nameless "experts" you're on such a crusade in here to do harm to.
It is actually 2 people but I guess some people have hard times reading...
Because this topic isn't just about Recoil. There is nothing stopping another company from pricing a string like that.
It's about the trend toward pushing the price of multis increasingly toward the price of natural gut. Kgut is also part of this topic, as is any other string that comes out at $20 or more.
i got pro supex maxim touch for 8 dollars and they play great
It's a *pocketbook* issue, then!?!!! When there remain plenty of other synthetics, even multifilaments, priced well below your price point, why should some other string's price even *matter* this much, to you and anyone else too.
Above it has been suggested that certain string characteristics may just be beyond your notice. Similarly, USRSA playtesters are listed by their NTRP rating, play style and racquet. Not every string appeals to everyone.
Is this poll then in fact just some claim you have that no string's cost should offend? Are you hiding it? This has more the character of a *rant*, then, and there's a forum just for that; why frustrate and detain yourself with this one.....
I saw 3, not sure what you were looking at.
you must've read read only half the posts. It really doesn't matter, but see what I posted on post 14. That should clear things up.
yes, I missed your post. Someone else voted for multi (maybe a friend of Valjean), so now its 3.
In all this time I never knew you could "view" who voted for what. I honestly had no clue, if I did I would not have noted 2/3...because you would be one to vote for multi. You're name is not on the list, so maybe you should really think....
Never mentioned your name at all. Funny how you come to this thread AFTER I did. You just make yourself look silly.
Bashed...I am not alone. Most people completely disagree with you.
If its not poly its not playable
The poll question is poorly phrased, as I said above. First it's poll results you don't do, but now it's whatever someone else has said, as well.
Furthermore, to take this thread as somehow a "vote" on "multis" as a whole, rather than a price point for some, completely changes its point (unless that's gone unstated this whole time--you and the OP can just have that one out). Apparently, then, right now, you'd need one of your own.
Finally, it actually doesn't matter, in real terms, what you and I think--who votes what--now does it? Last time I looked it up, this forum is free opinion. Unless you have something in mind to do about that, per se.... And that I wouldn't put past you, even.
I use Laseerfibre Supernatural Gut Prostock, and I thought it was that string the OP referred to since it has GUT in its name.
I really like this multi - and it plays best of all the multi's I've had the pleasure of testing, which include, Recoil (is this a multi at all), X-one, Xcel Power 2008, Kgut Pro & Gamma Professional.
Unfortunately TW does not sell it in 16 gauge anymore, so I'll have to get it elsewhere.
I use natural gut in all my main racquets, but I need 2 racquets for wet weather - and I use prime Multi strings in these 2 racquets, since natural gut is NOT an option in wet weather.
you are so much smarter than me, at least you think that. but the funny thing is I am in the 90% of the populas view..you are not even close. So while you continue to argue with me, 90% think you are wrong. I find that pretty funny.:lol:
we agree on one thing, this is a free forum based on opinion. But mine seesm to be correct most of the time. nhope I did not hurt your feelings. I know how much you like to get my posts deleted towards you.
on to the topic. No multi costing anywhere near $25 is worth the price. No multi costing $20 is worth the price, nor is $15 and not even $10. I have tried multi's and they are the worst price/performance strings on the market (IMO). They are not worth the cost because they don't last. They feel good/ok for a set or so, then they are mushy. At least there are many syn guts thancan cost less than $4 per racquet. Why pay all that money for a multi when a terrific gut costs nearly the same..KLIP LEGEND.
how often do you play in rain? I know gut can be tough to keep in humid/hot weather, but rain?
if the synthetic was as durable as kevlar and had the playability of gut, and the bite of a poly, then yes.
One thing we do agree upon: The poll isn't about multis, it's about their price. Whether that's the priority everyone in here has is in doubt. Whether a poll so dedicated attracts any but sanctimonious people, or would, is not.
But, then, that isn't about and over you, too. And, should it be?
you are either a lawyer or college professor..which one? Your writing is top notch (sincerely).
Yes..the price. Basically the reason I don't like them. if they were $5-$10 I would be OK w/them.
I don't play that often in the rain - but sometimes when it starts to rain a little bit we can continue for half an hour before the lines get too slippery.
I play on red clay and they can take a bit of rain and we can still play some solid tennis.
Also sometimes, when we play just after a rain delay, the balls and the red clay court is still a bit wet and this will affect the natural gut strings some what - so in these situations I take my two racquets strung with the prime multi strings and I play on until everything is dry.
Of course natural gut is better, but I still think the prime multis play pretty good for me. I also have 2 racquets strung with a hybrid of the thicker Babolat VS Touch 15L Gauge Natural Gut in the mains and Luxilon ALU Big Banger Fluoro 17 gauge in the crosses and I can play with this hybrid in some what wet weather without the natural gut being ruined totally because of its thicker gauge and also of course because Babolat VS Team nat gut and VS Touch Natural gut has a nice coating on the strings to make them more durable.
But a full nat gut setup of Babolat VS Team Natural Gut 17 gauge, which I have in my two Wilson K-Blade 98 would be ruined in just the slightest wet weather - unfortunately I speak from experience here - I ruined an expensive full nat gut Babolat VS Team 17 gauge string setup last month, when I played for about 20 minutes in wet weather - not rain, but after a rain delay, and the balls became a bit soaked from contact with the wet red clay - the natural gut started to look like hot spaghetti after 15 minutes.......but I had played with the strings for 10 hours, so it was about to go anyways, but still I learned that day, that water and natural gut is a bad bad combination :lol:
In my case, $25 gut is more value than $3-4 basic synthetic gut.
I voted big "NO" on the poll by the way.
I understand. That makes sense. We don't have any outdoor clay courts in our area. So playing in the rain on hard-court is not a good idea.
I also play Babolat 17g, but have a pack of Babolat 15g ready to be strung up. What is the difference in gauges? What are the effects for you?
I have been playing nothing but 17g strings for at least 2 years.
agreed. In my situation:
$25 for Klip Legend
.50 cents for Gosen Sheep (I buy the reel for $30..so each cross job costs me maybe 50 cents).
I string myself.
2 racquets for $26. That's $13 for each racquets. The gut will last me months on 1-2 days per week (2 hours per session). If I use Syn gut like Gosen on a full string job, it may last me 2 sessions (2 weeks). While the price will not get near the $13, its the time involved. Since I string myself, I waste much less time using natural gut. time is money.
Anyone serious about stringing and has an initial $200 investment can get their own stringer (Klipper or Gamma), a reel of good syn gut under $50 and a pack of Natural gut. The stringer would pay itself within a year or so.
I feel like the 17 gauge nat gut gives me more spin and control and less power, while the 15L gauge gives me me more power, less spin and more durability.
This is why I try to hybrid the 15L gauge nat gut with a poly in the crosses, because the poly gives me some extra spin, that otherwise lacks in the thicker 15L gauge nat gut string.
I like to play around with this and test different string setups. I only play tennis for fun and don't have to have 5 racquets with the same string setup. So in fact I currently have 1 wet weather racquet with a Prime expensive multi, 2 racquets with a hybrid of 15L gauge Babolat VS Touch nat gut in the mains and a Luxilon Big Banger ALU Fluoro in the crosses, 2 racquets with a full Babolat VS Touch 16 gauge string setup and 2 with a full Babolat VS Team 17 gauge string setup.
My two Wilson K-blade 98 have a dense string pattern of 18X20, so I use the 17 gauge natural gut in these two racquets.
To me, NRG-2 feels stiffer than natural gut, not mushy. I prefer gut, though, because it has more resilience.
Never played NRG-2, but have heard its stiff. In my experience, most of the multi's I have played had little response to them..they felt dead/mushy very quickly.
Slightly off topic but in response so some posts above, I use gut (Babolat Tonic) because my shoulder hurts with any other string. I would pay more for gut, now matter what the price, or I would quit playing tennis. I have tried expensive multi's like K-gut, but my arm still hurts.
I didn't vote because I think the 'truth' (for lack of a better term) is, like most things, somewhere in the middle. If I had a choice of paying $25 for a multi versus $25 for natural gut, I'd buy natural gut every time. But, from a pragmatic standpoint, my choices are much more varied than that. I have found that a livley gut doesn't suit me from a feel standpoint. I prefer the lower end guts that have a more solid, deader feel like Pacific Classic or Tough Gut, or Klip Legend. Between those two, I find the wear pattern and performance window to be better with Pacific.
But! I string for several people who like a higher end gut like Prime or Team. And when you consider using a hybrid with a multi that costs $10 - 12/set like Power Line, NRG, or PowerFibre, then you find a great utility for a multi. The resultant string job really has two-fold best of, cost and performance.
I have also found that, probably because of my history with poly, that prefer a deader feeling string. Multis typically have less feel than gut. I am going to experiment with an all-gut job soon, but find my proclivity to be cheap one of the leading factors holding me back (I just can't bear to cut out a $30 experiment and feel guilty for wasting a set of gut).
Given the narrow view of one or the other, then I think it's absolutely true that natural gut out performs any/all multis in terms of tension maintenance, power, and overall performance. But given the current climate of hybrids, I think that most players realize it doesn't have to be an all/nothing proposition. A hybrid, for 90% of the world's playing population will perform as well as an all-gut set up given that the natural gut is used in the mains.
You can have your cake and eat it too!
Based on what you said, though, I don't see anything to support a $25 multi. So, how is the true somewhere in the middle?
You may want to try NRG-2 17.
Same here. I sometimes hybrid value natural gut with something better than basic mono's (like soft polys, or polyolefins strings < $10) though.
I too have paid for my stringer too for the situation like this.
If you send me some, I will try it. If I like it, I will buy it..but honestly I use Nat gut and have no reason to try a multi (one that I pay for). But I do have a couple string sets I got from Samster (The MOJO set up in the cross ISO) that will be put into my next gut string job. I want a low powered cross..hopefully it holds up well (at least as long as the Gosen).
If your budget can afford natural gut that's fine. But, you can't say all multis are bad. We're not talking about a multi that costs $25 in this case. The competition in the price range of NRG-2 is barely natural gut, if at all. Some argue that durability/tension holding of natural gut is superior so it saves money in the long run. That's true for non string breakers. But for string breakers, maybe not. I usually buy VS instead of NRG-2 myself, but sometimes I haven't had the money and bought NRG-2 instead and it's a better substitute than other strings I've tried.
It's hyperbolic to dismiss multis entirely in my view.
good point. was not thinking along those lines. I never break string.
will try the ISOSpeed control and classic control. guess I will see how it goes.
NRG 2 at $6 a set is definitely worth it. Thanks fleabay!
Try reading the post next time...
The true is that multis, less expensive than gut, have a place in stringing. You don't have to go completely one way or the other.
True. If they didn't have a place in the market then they wouldn't be marketed. Also, they're much easier for home stringers.
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