A new tour calendar proposal

[Deleted member 688153]

Right, so first things first, I've decided to stop bagging slow HC.
I prefer fast HC, but slow HC is good too because dat variety.
And yes, that means I will now match Miami.

But we do need more fast HC/grass to balance out the slow surfaces, so here is my proposed tour calendar.

The ITF speed numbers are terrible, but I will use their speed categories to illustrate how fast I would like each court to be.

Category 1 - Slow
Category 2 - Medium-Slow
Category 3 - Medium
Category 4 - Medium-Fast
Category 5 - Fast

And I will mention the bounce too (low, medium, high).

=================
In chronological order:

ATP 500 Doha - HC Category 4, medium bounce
ATP 1000 Dubai - HC Category 4, medium bounce

ATP 500 Brisbane - HC Category 3, medium bounce
Australian Open - HC Category 2, medium bounce

ATP 1000 Indian Wells - HC Category 3, medium bounce
ATP 1000 Miami - HC Category 1, medium bounce

ATP 500 Monte Carlo - Red Clay Category 1, high bounce
ATP 500 Madrid - Blue Clay Category 2, medium bounce
(run these at the same time like Basel and Valencia, so you can choose)

ATP 1000 Rome - Clay Category 1, high bounce
Roland Garros - Red Clay Category 1, high bounce

ATP 500 Halle - Fast Grass Category 5, low bounce
ATP 500 's-Hertogenbosch - Modern Grass Category 5, low bounce
(run these at the same time, so you can choose)

ATP 1000 Queens - Modern Grass Category 5, low bounce
Wimbledon - Fast Grass Category 5, low bounce
(That's right, bring back fast grass, baby!)

ATP 500 Montreal - HC Category 3, medium bounce
ATP 500 Toronto - HC Category 4, medium bounce
(Split up the Canada Masters and run these two 500s at the same time, so you can choose)

ATP 1000 Cincinnati - HC Category 5, low bounce
US Open - HC Category 5, medium bounce
(Make the US Open faster)

ATP 500 Beijing - HC Category 4, medium bounce
ATP 1000 Shanghai - HC Category 5, low bounce

ATP 500 Basel - Carpet Category 5, medium bounce, indoors
ATP 500 Valencia - HC Category 5, medium bounce, indoors
(BRING BACK CARPET YO, and run these at the same time, so you can choose)

ATP 1000 Paris - Carpet Category 5, low bounce, indoors

World Tour Finals
Rotate between:
- HC Category 2, low bounce, indoors
- HC Category 5, low bounce, indoors
- Carpet Category 5, low bounce, indoors

=================

Also, make all events not mentioned into 250s if they aren't already, and make it mandatory to play at least one 500 on each of the three primary surfaces, in addition to all seven Masters being mandatory.

If they implemented this calendar, I would watch every tournament.

 

[Inanimate_object]

I'm sure they will revamp the entire tour, Shanghai the tournament directors, and revamp the entire season for your liking.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

I'm sure they will revamp the entire tour, Shanghai the tournament directors, and revamp the entire season for your liking.

So are you going to discuss the merits/demerits of what I have suggested, or just be nasty like always?

Yes, these changes are not likely to happen due to everyone's annoying preference for status quo preservation, but I wouldn't have suggested the above if I didn't honestly think it would be an improvement.

I think adding variety to the tour would be good.
What say you?

 

[Inanimate_object]

Beyond this, there are things with your master plans that I see as problematic

First and foremost, we are not mix and matching pizza toppings. Things are where they are for a very good reason. How and why would the ATP split up the Roger's cup to run 2 competing events in the same region? The Roger's cup is the premier Canadian tournament, it has no competitors in this regard. Why would it sabotage itself, double its costs and downgrade its prestige only to concurrently visit markets which already share fans? Montreal is not known as a particularly high yield event anyways.

2nd, carpet is NOT coming back to professional tennis. The ATP cannot mandate its use because the player's council expressly voted to abolish carpet surface from the professional tour. Guess who was a vocal leader in that vote? You guessed it, Roger Federer.

You say, you aren't against slow surfaces, yet you've turned arguably one of the slowest surfaces on tour, Bercy, into a fast indoors event??? You want to unilaterally raise the speed of the tour. The only exercise is you trying to hide it by claiming you'd leave Miami as it is.

Look at all the events you propose - this is endemic of the REAL problem on tour. You want higher quality play? I've got an idea that would yield better results and is equally, if not more unrealistic. Cut down the number of friggin' tour level tournaments!

Expedite the World tour finals to mid October at the latest. The North American Hardcourt season is untouchable because of its position as revenue leader throughout the season. That means you've gotta start shaving off weeks from the Euro-clay and possibly IW-Miami conundrum. I'd like if there was room to carve out a proper grass season. But all in all, I'd rather my tennis players fit, fresh and ready to go on molasses, than exhausted, spent and playing on ice.

PS I'd love to add a grass masters to the tour, but never at the expense of Monte Carlo, and I'm not even that crazy about clay. And if I had to choose, Halle must be a Masters if ATP wants to rekindle the German market. The British market is WAY oversaturated at this point.

 

[Grgisme]

French Open in November - Mud

Wimbledon in January - Ice

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Beyond this, there are things with your master plans that I see as problematic

First and foremost, we are not mix and matching pizza toppings. Things are where they are for a very good reason. How and why would the ATP split up the Roger's cup to run 2 competing events in the same region? The Roger's cup is the premier Canadian tournament, it has no competitors in this regard. Why would it sabotage itself, double its costs and downgrade its prestige only to concurrently visit markets which already share fans? Montreal is not known as a particularly high yield event anyways.

Then keep Canada as it is.
These are only tentative suggestions, and you raise valid points about changing Canada like that.

2nd, carpet is NOT coming back to professional tennis. The ATP cannot mandate its use because the player's council expressly voted to abolish carpet surface from the professional tour. Guess who was a vocal leader in that vote? You guessed it, Roger Federer.

They seriously did that? Laaame.
Why would they go and do a thing like that, Federer included?
My god, even the players don't want the tour to be more exciting. :neutral:
It's a losing battle I fight.

You say, you aren't against slow surfaces, yet you've turned arguably one of the slowest surfaces on tour, Bercy, into a fast indoors event??? You want to unilaterally raise the speed of the tour. The only exercise is you trying to hide it by claiming you'd leave Miami as it is.

Most of the tour's courts are quite slow, adding more fast ones restores balance.
I have suggested slowing the AO further from its current medium status, and my goal is really to make the tour more polarized like it once was.
Paris was lightning fast until about 2011 by the way, I would like to see that restored.
Miami should be mud slow, and AO/IW should be very slow too.

Look at all the events you propose - this is endemic of the REAL problem on tour. You want higher quality play? I've got an idea that would yield better results and is equally, if not more unrealistic. Cut down the number of friggin' tour level tournaments!

Maybe, but more fast courts would mean the players get less worn out, too.
Okay, ditch the mandatory 500 stipulation I suggested.
My calendar only has seven Masters anyway, down from nine.

Expedite the World tour finals to mid October at the latest. The North American Hardcourt season is untouchable because of its position as revenue leader throughout the season. That means you've gotta start shaving off weeks from the Euro-clay and possibly IW-Miami conundrum. I'd like if there was room to carve out a proper grass season. But all in all, I'd rather my tennis players fit, fresh and ready to go on molasses, than exhausted, spent and playing on ice.

Well I've done that by reducing the three clay MS to one, and making the other two into simultaneous 500s (and bringing back the blue clay).
Barcelona becomes a 250 under my plan, so you have the two 500s in MC's calendar spot, and then Rome earlier than it is now. Much more compact.
IW/Miami should become one-week tourneys and maybe Miami could become a 500 too, reducing that section of the calendar further.

PS I'd love to add a grass masters to the tour, but never at the expense of Monte Carlo, and I'm not even that crazy about clay. And if I had to choose, Halle must be a Masters if ATP wants to rekindle the German market. The British market is WAY oversaturated at this point.

Agree here, although MC is already a non-mandatory, so making it a 500 equals basically no difference.
Yeah, maybe make Halle a 1000 instead, it's better than Queens anyway, but the facilities are so small, they would have to improve them.

 

[merwy]

One problem I have with your view is that you only see things in terms of quickness of the court but you don't seem to think of variety in surfaces at all. The idea of removing two of the three clay m1000s seems preposterous to me and makes it look like you have a personal issue with the surface. Maybe where you live you don't have it that much but everywhere in South America and Europe it's the most common surface, and that is where all the top players come from nowadays..
I already don't like the fact that clay is seen as such a secondary surface behind hc, but OTOH I see that it works better this way. I'd hate it if it were to become even more obscure though.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

One problem I have with your view is that you only see things in terms of quickness of the court but you don't seem to think of variety in surfaces at all. The idea of removing two of the three clay m1000s seems preposterous to me and makes it look like you have a personal issue with the surface. Maybe where you live you don't have it that much but everywhere in South America and Europe it's the most common surface, and that is where all the top players come from nowadays..
I already don't like the fact that clay is seen as such a secondary surface behind hc, but OTOH I see that it works better this way. I'd hate it if it were to become even more obscure though.

Nah, I like clay, probably more than HC.
I don't suggest removing any clay tournaments, just making them 500s/non-mandatory to reduce the calendar and make room for grass and carpet.

HC is the primary surface these days though, but maybe reducing the number of HC tourneys could work (I have already suggested re-introducing carpet).

 

[adil1972]

can somebody please explain
what is meant by 128Q in 5th line below,

128S mean 128 singles player
64D/32X 64 doubles teams / 32 mixed doubles teams

1) Australian Open
2) Melbourne, Australia
3) Grand Slam
4) A$40,000,000 – Hard
5) 128S/128Q/64D/32X
6) Singles Draw – Doubles Draw – Mixed Draw

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_ATP_World_Tour#January

 

[jm1980]

can somebody please explain
what is meant by 128Q in 5th line below,

128S mean 128 singles player
64D/32X 64 doubles teams / 32 mixed doubles teams

1) Australian Open
2) Melbourne, Australia
3) Grand Slam
4) A$40,000,000 – Hard
5) 128S/128Q/64D/32X
6) Singles Draw – Doubles Draw – Mixed Draw

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_ATP_World_Tour#January

It means the qualifying draw has 128 players

 

[adil1972]

It means the qualifying draw has 128 players

ok thanks for the info

i dont understand so many qualifying players

 

[jm1980]

ok thanks for the info

i dont understand so many qualifying players

Only 16 of them make it to the main draw, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Australian_Open_–_Men's_Singles_Qualifying

 

[adil1972]

Only 16 of them make it to the main draw, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Australian_Open_–_Men's_Singles_Qualifying

thanks again jm1980

 

[vanioMan]

I saw ATP Dubai 1000 and ATP Canada 500 and I stopped reading.

No offense or disrespect, but I don't get some people desire or obsession over Dubai becoming a Masters.

 

[jm1980]

I saw ATP Dubai 1000 and ATP Canada 500 and I stopped reading.

No offense or disrespect, but I don't get some people desire or obsession over Dubai becoming a Masters.

To artificially inflate Federer's achievements. Nothing more.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

I saw ATP Dubai 1000 and ATP Canada 500 and I stopped reading.

No offense or disrespect, but I don't get some people desire or obsession over Dubai becoming a Masters.

I think we could leave Canada as it is then.
Maybe that change is a bridge too far, another poaster pointed out why it would be silly too.

And if Dubai didn't become a Masters either, that would reduce the number of mandatory tournaments, which could be a good thing.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Blade0324]

I'm not going to spend much time on this but simply say I for one am glad carpet is gone and while I know it's an unpopular opinion but I would get rid of grass too. I personally like to slower surfaces and would be in favor of basically having red clay and then either slow gritty hard courts or a medium speed hard court be for every tournament.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

I'm not going to spend much time on this but simply say I for one am glad carpet is gone and while I know it's an unpopular opinion but I would get rid of grass too. I personally like to slower surfaces and would be in favor of basically having red clay and then either slow gritty hard courts or a medium speed hard court be for every tournament.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.