A Question for the 5.0 players

[zill]

When you play a 4.5 how do you feel during the match? Obviously you will win comfortably with a one sided score line but how do you feel exactly during the match? Do you feel that you are 'unplayable' from the perspective of your 4.5 opponent? As in there is just 'no competition' between you and your 4.5 opponent?

 

[J011yroger]

4.5 and 5.0 are very wide ranges.

J

 

[Hawks9451]

I feel itchy and sometimes I need to pee really bad

 

[zill]

4.5 and 5.0 are very wide ranges.

J

Say a typical 4.5 vs a typical 5.0. Or are you saying it could be the case that a certain 4.5's games style may trouble a certain solid 5.0?

 

[zill]

When you play a 4.5 how do you feel during the match? Obviously you will win comfortably with a one sided score line but how do you feel exactly during the match? Do you feel that you are 'unplayable' from the perspective of your 4.5 opponent? As in there is just 'no competition' between you and your 4.5 opponent?

@MyFearHand ?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Say a typical 4.5 vs a typical 5.0. Or are you saying it could be the case that a certain 4.5's games style may trouble a certain solid 5.0?

The standard reply in lower level examples would push/slice/junk. However, I highly doubt that would bother a 5.0.

Another less common reply is S&V, only because it's so rare that the 5.0 likely never sees it. I played a low 5.0 [I'm mid-4.5] and lost 3&3 but I was happy that I was only broken once in the 1st set and that my net game was clearly giving him some trouble. After the match, I got the compliment "I could never get into a rhythm against you.".

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

When you play a 4.5 how do you feel during the match? Obviously you will win comfortably with a one sided score line but how do you feel exactly during the match? Do you feel that you are 'unplayable' from the perspective of your 4.5 opponent? As in there is just 'no competition' between you and your 4.5 opponent?

In general, the higher-level player tends to feel fairly confident that there is little to nothing the lower-level player can do to hurt him: everything the lower can dish out, the higher can take and then some. And yes, the lower can stretch to raise his game but likely that will come at the price of more errors. So the lower will win some points and even some games but the outcome is rarely in doubt.

 

[J D]

What J said. The ratings ranges are too big to predict. The ratings difference could be as little as .01, 4.49 vs. 4.50, or it could be as large as .99, 4.99 vs. 4.00. That’s a huge difference. In addition, you have the variable of style match ups. It’s possible that, in the first scenario, the 4.5 would win the majority of the matches.

That said, the average level 5.0 will straight set the average 4.5 easily, typically in the 6-0 to 6-2 range. If the 5.0 is having an off day or the 4.5 is en fuego, it could be competitive. Otherwise, it should be an easy day at the office for the 5.0.

Still, style match ups can matter quite a bit with one level difference. I’m a former 5.0 playing at a 4.5 level now due to age. When I play 5.0’s that try to hit through me or that use spin and depth as their big weapons, I’ll still give them fits. If they just run me side to side, short and long, I don’t last a set before my level drops off the table. (There is a reason the senior tour plays one set matches)

 

[zill]

In general, the higher-level player tends to feel fairly confident that there is little to nothing the lower-level player can do to hurt him: everything the lower can dish out, the higher can take and then some. And yes, the lower can stretch to raise his game but likely that will come at the price of more errors. So the lower will win some points and even some games but the outcome is rarely in doubt.

yes but what is going on in the 5.0’s head in the match? Is it ‘I am unplayed….’? Makes sense from what you have described.

 

[zill]

What J said. The ratings ranges are too big to predict. The ratings difference could be as little as .01, 4.49 vs. 4.50, or it could be as large as .99, 4.99 vs. 4.00. That’s a huge difference. In addition, you have the variable of style match ups. It’s possible that, in the first scenario, the 4.5 would win the majority of the matches.

That said, the average level 5.0 will straight set the average 4.5 easily, typically in the 6-0 to 6-2 range. If the 5.0 is having an off day or the 4.5 is en fuego, it could be competitive. Otherwise, it should be an easy day at the office for the 5.0.

Still, style match ups can matter quite a bit with one level difference. I’m a former 5.0 playing at a 4.5 level now due to age. When I play 5.0’s that try to hit through me or that use spin and depth as their big weapons, I’ll still give them fits. If they just run me side to side, short and long, I don’t last a set before my level drops off the table. (There is a reason the senior tour plays one set matches)

Let’s say 5.0 vs 4.5 in the same age group.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

yes but what is going on in the 5.0’s head in the match? Is it ‘I am unplayed….’? Makes sense from what you have described.

I can't answer that since I'm not a 5.0. I can only answer it from the viewpoint of the higher-rated player and I would think there's a lot of commonality with what a 5.0 would think.

 

[MyFearHand]

@MyFearHand ?

Against most 4.5s I’m pretty confident I can just win by not missing. Move the ball around a bit to big targets and never really have to pull the trigger. If they like to play long points too then they probably don’t like me coming to net so I’ll do that. I’m definitely never thinking I’m unplayable. The only two shots that I can really play first strike with are my serve and return. But I don’t blast a lot of winners, so no 4.5 is going to see me as unplayable. They’re probably going to feel like they can’t get the ball by me though and start hitting closer to the lines.

 

[zill]

They’re probably going to feel like they can’t get the ball by me though and start hitting closer to the lines.

That's good enough to be 'unplayable' imo. Djokovic doesn't blast a lot of balls past other players but am sure a lot of pros view Djokovic as 'unplayble'.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Against most 4.5s I’m pretty confident I can just win by not missing. Move the ball around a bit to big targets and never really have to pull the trigger. If they like to play long points too then they probably don’t like me coming to net so I’ll do that. I’m definitely never thinking I’m unplayable. The only two shots that I can really play first strike with are my serve and return. But I don’t blast a lot of winners, so no 4.5 is going to see me as unplayable. They’re probably going to feel like they can’t get the ball by me though and start hitting closer to the lines.

You going to be in SoCal anytime soon?

 

[MyFearHand]

That's good enough to be 'unplayable' imo. Djokovic doesn't blast a lot of balls past other players but am sure a lot of pros view Djokovic as 'unplayble'.

I think that’s quite a bit different cause he certainly does hit a lot of winners.

But more to the point I usually think of unplayable as unable to keep a rally going for long because they’re hitting winners or forcing errors. When you play against me you get a lot of playing (if you consider decent length rallies playing), so I wouldn’t say that’s unplayable.

 

[MyFearHand]

You going to be in SoCal anytime soon?

Ahhh you just missed me connecting through LAX last Saturday. No plans to go to SoCal in the foreseeable future although I do come to the SF area occasionally.

 

[d-quik]

I would guess that for the ones that don't delude themselves about their own ability, they would feel as if they can "get away" with suboptimal play and still win.

 

[user92626]

When you play a 4.5 how do you feel during the match? Obviously you will win comfortably with a one sided score line but how do you feel exactly during the match? Do you feel that you are 'unplayable' from the perspective of your 4.5 opponent? As in there is just 'no competition' between you and your 4.5 opponent?

I don't understand the point of your question. Are you specifically wanting to get into a 5.0 player's head and working your way out from there?

How did you feel when you played against @Curious ? I would assume it's something similar. Maybe, mayb not.

I frequently play against this one lower player. It's like how @S&V-not_dead_yet describes " So the lower will win some points and even some games but the outcome is rarely in doubt. "

I just mind my own plays. When I am bored and lackadaisical or trying new things, he would run up a few games which I like too since that gives me pressure, but when I tighten up my plays there's just no way he can beat me. Results have been the same for months now.

From my own perspective I just see there's a bunch of things (things that can "hurt" me) that lower players simply cannot do. It's like they play within a bubble.

 

[zill]

I would guess that for the ones that don't delude themselves about their own ability, they would feel as if they can "get away" with suboptimal play and still win.

Good way of putting it.

 

[zill]

I don't understand the point of your question. Are you specifically wanting to get into a 5.0 player's head and working your way out from there?

No actually. The reverse. I am finding playing other 4.5 suddenly easier now, As if I am on another level....

 

[optic yellow]

No actually. The reverse. I am finding playing other 4.5 suddenly easier now, As if I am on another level....

The worst part is ascending to 5.0 is that you can no longer **** talk your 4.5 friends when you beat them because you're supposed to.

 

[zill]

The worst part is ascending to 5.0 is that you can no longer **** talk your 4.5 friends when you beat them because you're supposed to.

Fine with me. Just as long as they are not angry at me for beating them ..... cough @Curious cough.

 

[Curious]

Fine with me. Just as long as they are not angry at me for beating them ..... cough @Curious cough.

 

[optic yellow]

Fine with me. Just as long as they are not angry at me for beating them ..... cough @Curious cough.

How do you know that's not because they think you were mean about beating them in the first place?

 

[optic yellow]

Christmas in Australia is the trippiest ****.

 

[zill]

How do you know that's not because they think you were mean about beating them in the first place?

The guy is playing/fooling around. That footage is the first time we played a set I beat him 6-0. He then wanted a best of three set match despite my swearing the first time we played. Beat him 6-0 6-0 6-0 the second time but without any swearing. He for some reason got angry after the triple bagel. The first bagel with all the swearing was apparently fine with him.

btw I swore in the footage because I wasn't happy with my own performance, got nothing to do with @Curious.

 

[Curious]

him 6-0 6-0 6-0 the second time but without any swearing.

Yeah no swearing the second time, just hysteric laughing at my errors!

 

[zill]

Yeah no swearing the second time, just hysteric laughing at my errors!

True, but 100% genuine though, wasn't a tactic or anything sinister like that. You ever tried to hold off laughing at something genuinely funny? I don't think it's healthy unless there is a gun pointed against your head.

 

[zill]

True, but 100% genuine though, wasn't a tactic or anything sinister like that. You ever tried to hold off laughing at something genuinely funny? I don't think it's healthy unless there is a gun pointed against your head.

Ah it was also a response from some comments you made to me at the change of ends that triggered it.

 

[Curious]

Ah it was also a response from some comments you made to me at the change of ends that triggered it.

Well anyway I guess you can also see that we shouldn’t have a hit again. We should at least agree on that.

 

[optic yellow]

True, but 100% genuine though, wasn't a tactic or anything sinister like that. You ever tried to hold off laughing at something genuinely funny? I don't think it's healthy unless there is a gun pointed against your head.

It's still, like, somewhat rude.

 

[zill]

It's still, like, somewhat rude.

True but you will understand when you hear the comments he made to me during the change of ends.

 

[optic yellow]

True but you will understand when you hear the comments he made to me during the change of ends.

Where do I hear those?

 

[user92626]

Well anyway I guess you can also see that we shouldn’t have a hit again. We should at least agree on that.

I say this with sincerity. Let it go, buddy. Zill seems fine enough on here. I cannot imagine he's completely unplayable at the court, personalitywise.

I play with a ton of jacka$$$es who are well below my standard. They are neither funny nor inspiring nor anything but I just suck it up and treat them nicely the same as everyone. Today I brought beer for everyone. Nothing better than Southern CA heat at noontime and cold beer and fried chicken.

Just get better and kick zill's arrrs

 

[Curious]

I say this with sincerity. Let it go, buddy. Zill seems fine enough on here. I cannot imagine he's completely unplayable at the court, personalitywise.

I play with a ton of jacka$$$es who are well below my standard. They are neither funny nor inspiring nor anything but I just suck it up and treat them nicely the same as everyone. Today I brought beer for everyone. Nothing better than Southern CA heat at noontime and cold beer and fried chicken.

Just get better and kick zill's arrrs

I know much more about him than you do. It might be entertaining for you to watch but not for me to deal with.

 

[J011yroger]

The biggest revelation of this thread is that Zill actually plays tennis!

I had no idea!

J

 

[zill]

Where do I hear those?

I know much more about him than you do. It might be entertaining for you to watch but not for me to deal with.

So what happened was I was experimenting with my fh at the time (have been the last 4 years but right now have settled on one) and unfortunately the fh I decided to use on the day was not working well. Basically uncomfortable to use. I resorted to hitting a lot of slices and 'weird balls' as @Curious would put it in the match with a topspin fh every now and again. It worked and Curious was having a bad time dealing with my balls. Curious got frustrated eventually and claimed that 'he had won' because I wasn't even hitting topspin and he should have instead played with a 3.0-3.5 buddy of his that he usually plays with who always hit junk balls and serve with a pancake grip. So with those comments in mind I think I can be excused to burst out laughing mid match.

 

[optic yellow]

So what happened was I was experimenting with my fh at the time (have been the last 4 years but right now have settled on one) and unfortunately the fh I decided to use on the day was not working well. Basically uncomfortable to use. I resorted to hitting a lot of slices and 'weird balls' as @Curious would put it in the match with a topspin fh every now and again. It worked and Curious was having a bad time dealing with my balls. Curious got frustrated eventually and claimed that 'he had won' because I wasn't even hitting topspin and he should have instead played with a 3.0-3.5 buddy of his that he usually plays with who always hit junk balls and serve with a pancake grip. So with those comments in mind I think I can be excused to burst out laughing mid match.

I'm confused by this.

 

[zill]

I'm confused by this.

What is confusing?

 

[optic yellow]

What is confusing?

I'm surprised you say those shots were making him struggle if he is used to playing against someone who junkballs.

 

[zill]

I'm surprised you say those shots were making him struggle if he is used to playing against someone who junkballs.

But my balls are 4.5 junk balls with more speed, spin, curvature and variety.

 

[optic yellow]

But my balls are 4.5 junk balls with more speed, spin, curvature and variety.

I wouldn't be confident about the variety part. The other things I almost acknowledged the possibility of in my previous post but let my laziness get the best of me. Laughing briefly (and in a friendly manner) at what he said is one thing but laughing at mishits is another. Like you know he is frustrated because you are giving him things he can't hit back and you are the better player, the responsibility is on you in this situation to exercise the self-restraint.

 

[zill]

Laughing briefly (and in a friendly manner) at what he said is one thing but laughing at mishits is another. Like you know he is frustrated because you are giving him things he can't hit back and you are the better player, the responsibility is on you in this situation to exercise the self-restraint.

The problem was the comments he made to me in the change of ends was not friendly. Actually quite sinister. Like I was wasting his time. What goes around comes around. If he didn't make those degrading comments I wouldn't have laughed at all.

 

[optic yellow]

The problem was the comments he made to me in the change of ends was not friendly. Actually quite sinister. Like I was wasting his time. What goes around comes around. If he didn't make those degrading comments I wouldn't have laughed at all.

Did you consider that if you're a better player giving him a bunch of balls he can't hit you pretty much are wasting his time? It sounds like you thought you could cruise trying another forehand but when that didn't work you resorted to using 4.5 level junk to beat him because you prioritized winning the match over your forehand practice. It is somewhat understandable this behavior aggrieved him.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

 

[travlerajm]

This thread feels like what it must feel like for bickering married couples who visit a marriage counselor, who teases out all of the sore spots and makes them relive them.

 

[Jonesy]

Is this even a question?

 

[optic yellow]

This thread feels like what it must feel like for bickering married couples who visit a marriage counselor, who teases out all of the sore spots and makes them relive them.

Resolving resentment is the key principle of the profession.

 

[zill]

Did you consider that if you're a better player giving him a bunch of balls he can't hit you pretty much are wasting his time? It sounds like you thought you could cruise trying another forehand but when that didn't work you resorted to using 4.5 level junk to beat him because you prioritized winning the match over your forehand practice. It is somewhat understandable this behavior aggrieved him.

You clearly don't know me. I didn't try a fh for the sake of trying it or for the fun of it. I had been searching for my fh for 4 years. I even postponed the match a week or so because I didn't feel I had a fh (any fh). Thought I had one and tried it on the day but didn't feel right either. Yes I was fully competitive with him because he kept saying he was going to beat me prior to the match. So no mercy from me sorry.

 

[optic yellow]

You clearly don't know me. I didn't try a fh for the sake of trying it or for the fun of it. I had been searching for my fh for 4 years. I even postponed the match a week or so because I didn't feel I had a fh (any fh). Thought I had one and tried it on the day but didn't feel right either. Yes I was fully competitive with him because he kept saying he was going to beat me prior to the match. So no mercy from me sorry.

Did he say why he thought he would beat you?