A Smooth/Round Poly or Co Poly To Cross With Natural Gut

tomato123

Professional
Well, I'm all in with gut/poly. I bought more than I intended. But I can't wait to start.

I took a lot of thought into my choices, between this forum of opinions as well as others. Did many comparisons in Tennis Warehouse University as well.

I have 3 RF97s and am planning to keep at least one as my current full poly of CT 16g.

I'll be stringing one up now with gut and Head Hawk. My initial plan was to play out each one to it's fullest before trying another gut/poly. I'll be playing with my CT sporadically as well.

I'm wondering if stringing one at a time is the best way to go. Should I do two at a time? 3? I need some opinions.
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Don't think you can go wrong with either way, but it seems like it would be good to keep it simple and go for one at a time so you can get a sense of how the strings play throughout its lifespan and take the time to let your strokes groove with them.

Upside to doing two at a time would be having a direct side by side comparison, but if you end up liking one over the other, what would you do with the other one that you don't like as much?
 

Moosch

New User
That was my thinking too tomato. @USPTARF97, was that for the other thread? Lux gut is what I'm going to be sticking to for my testing for now. The Max power though I was thinking long and hard about. However, I had shoulder surgery a few years ago and wanted something a little softer in a poly. Round and soft/comfortable is also what I'm going for. I may end up still getting it just to see how it feels. It's very inexpensive.
 

g4driver

Legend
@Moosch and @USPTARF97

Both of you know my appreciation for VCT 1.30mm and have one frame with Lux 1.30mm / Head Hawk 1.25mm, which is buttery soft with loads of power. Someone on this thread didn't care for Head Hawk. It is the only smooth poly i will use with Natural Gut. Head Hawk is a very slick round poly with no power. This is what Head Hawk prefect with gut as it tames the power of gut.

I have had two more very good 4.5 guys converted to VCT 1.30mm. These are not "4.5V" rated guys.. meaning vanity 4.5 players who basically have 4.5 ratings from 20+ years ago and get beat up on my very strong 4.0 players. These are 4.5 guys who are much closer to 5.0 than 4.0 ratings. The both switched to VCT 1.30mm after trying several strings.

One using three 16x18 Prince TexExtreme Warrior 100 frames and the other using three APDs.

Just thought both you might appreciate that info.
 
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Sardines

Hall of Fame
Now that I've snapped the VST16 with Tecnifibre Pro Redcode Wax 18g cross, I'll give my 1 cent:

Tension: 58lbs mains 53lbs cross 2% prestretch setting.

Compared to Yonex Poly Tour Fire 17 1.2mm:

Fresh off the stringer onto the court, the VST16/TPRW combo had very good bite and feels stiffer than the YPTF. This lends to a crisper feel. After about 2 sets, the tension did drop a bit, and the string bed had more power than the similarly string YPTF setup. I then rallied for 40 mins to really break in the strings. Even though the string bed had more power, the bite was as good as YPTF. With singles, this extra power would be more useful. I liked it after 2+ hrs of play. Stringmeter read 43lbs on the crosses before and 39lbs after the session. Feel was ok, on par with YPTF, but neither did much to give me superb feel with the SV98+. Volleys did feel a little looser, but nice power.

2 days later, I played 5.5/6.0 doubles and the tension drop was noticeable but not bad. I had to slightly adjust my swing to hit more spin, but the wax coating kept the spin going pretty well. Good power and spin, with feel even improving with the tension loss. I noticed a bit more fraying on the gut because of the added spin production. Stringmeter read 38lbs before and 36lbs after.

3 days after, I hit 30 mins then played 2 singles sets with a heavy hitting 5.5. I expected the tension to drop drastically but it didn't feel bad, like a gentle drop. The 1st set, topspin was still good, but by the 2nd set, the serves and groundies flew slightly. I suspect the wax coating was wearing out. Stringmeter read 34lbs before and 31lbs after the session. More fraying on the 3rd and 4th main around the 5th cross down, my usual hitting zone area.

4th session: I sprayed dry type silicone spray for the first time, thin coat. Spin production came back and tension loss seemed to have plateaued slightly to a comfortable tension. The control was still good, with the power being controlled by the extra bite. The spray seemed to work for the entire 2+ hr session, which was surprising since usually with a single coat, it doesn't. Still fraying was quite evident with the opponents big serve.

The gut finally snapped around the 12th hr mark, which put it on par of durability with YPTF. I did not have the opportunity to use the Playsight courts to check on veracity of my feel. Overall, it's a more powerful version of YPTF. I'd probably string it 1-2lbs higher to temper the power. I was ready to cut the string really because it was a bit too powerful for me to enjoy off the serve and low volleys especially, but quite nice to have off the ground and crunching high volleys and overheads.
Spin felt the same but I think YPTF's SIF coating lasts a bit longer, since I don't spray until the 5th or 6th session.
Tension maintenance was good, with a slightly steeper curve from YPTF.
Feel got better after the initial stiffness. YPTF has a more linear feel in tension loss.

Overall, I liked the TPRW as a cross for hybrid. And it is cheaper than the YPTF in reel form by 20%, which is significant. YPTF is more linear and has overall playability in a control string. TPRW has a bit of a tension curve then plays steadily as it tension loss begins to lineate after the initial curve. I'll have to experiment with tension to see if I can improve on it.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
That was my thinking too tomato. @USPTARF97, was that for the other thread? Lux gut is what I'm going to be sticking to for my testing for now. The Max power though I was thinking long and hard about. However, I had shoulder surgery a few years ago and wanted something a little softer in a poly. Round and soft/comfortable is also what I'm going for. I may end up still getting it just to see how it feels. It's very inexpensive.

On my RF97A I use MaxPower 1.25 crosses with ToughGut 1.25 mains. 61# mains/56# crosses. I may try Lux gut to compare, but I do really like ToughGut, it gives nice spin and playability duration with MaxPower (10-20 hours for me, depending on hitting partners).
 

tomato123

Professional
@Moosch - thought it was really interesting you had Black Knight on your list, and I happened to get a set from Tier One's discount package and really liked their Firewire Boost poly, but after @IowaGuy motivated me to revisit natural gut/poly in another thread I decided to use the Black Knight as a cross because of the great tension maintenance numbers and relative softness compared to other polys that are known for tension maintenance. And since Tier One advertises Black Knight as their most control oriented string, I thought it might work out as a pair with natural gut. I know some people have said Black Knight plays similarly to a round poly although it is 6-sided, but when I was stringing it I could definitely tell it was shaped. However, my hope is that it still pairs well as a cross string in the similar vein as RPM team in that it's not a "sharp" shaped string and still facilitates good snapback without digging into the gut.

So my current setup is Lux natural gut 16 and Black Knight 17 at 55/52 lbs on my Prince Phantom 93P, and I went out for my hitting session with my coach and I kind of had a mini breakthrough when we just focused on my topspin mechanics and letting the strings/racquet do the work in producing the power. I was very happy with how this combo played, but the only question will be durability since I do not know how much the shape of the Black Knight strings will affect the natural gut mains. But much appreciated for all the discussion here :)
 

Moosch

New User
@tomato123 that's exactly why Black Knight was one of my options as well. I'm also using Lux natural 16 in my testings. I'd love to hear your updates on how it plays, and if it can last despite being shaped, but not sharp.
 

tomato123

Professional
@tomato123 that's exactly why Black Knight was one of my options as well. I'm also using Lux natural 16 in my testings. I'd love to hear your updates on how it plays, and if it can last despite being shaped, but not sharp.

Going at about 5 hours now and still plays excellent, and feel/control is excellent as well, but my hope is to get into double digit hours for me to feel like it's worthwhile. Definitely like Lux gut over Klip.

How have you been liking Head Hawk as your cross?
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
That was my thinking too tomato. @USPTARF97, was that for the other thread? Lux gut is what I'm going to be sticking to for my testing for now. The Max power though I was thinking long and hard about. However, I had shoulder surgery a few years ago and wanted something a little softer in a poly. Round and soft/comfortable is also what I'm going for. I may end up still getting it just to see how it feels. It's very inexpensive.

Those are my favorites to use with VS Gut mains @ 57/54 in the RF97.
4g 1.25 and Max Power 1.25 would be my first two choices due to playability, durability and tension maintenance. No issues with the string bed being too stiff.
 
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Moosch

New User
@tomato123 that's great to hear that Black Knight is still going strong for you. I'll definitely try that if you end up giving it the green light in the end. I do like the Head Hawk so far. I'm about 10 hours in and no issues so far. Only thing is it took some adjustment for me since I have been hitting with full poly setups. No complaints yet.

@USPTARF97 At some point I think I will give the Max Power a shot. I have tons of strings to go through, probably will take me a year or more lol but I'll add it to the list for sure. And are you talking about 4G soft? or just the 4G?
 

LeftyJunk

Rookie
Tension suggestion please!

I play with the new Pure Strike 16x19 with a full bed of Ytex's soft poly Square-X at 48-50lbs.

I recently had a buddy give me some Wilson Natural Gut 16g and I have some Kirschbaum Max Power 18 (1.20) as well. Is the poly too thin for a cross with gut?

I would love to try a gut/poly hybrid but do not know where I should start with tension...
 

USPTARF97

Hall of Fame
@tomato123 that's great to hear that Black Knight is still going strong for you. I'll definitely try that if you end up giving it the green light in the end. I do like the Head Hawk so far. I'm about 10 hours in and no issues so far. Only thing is it took some adjustment for me since I have been hitting with full poly setups. No complaints yet.

@USPTARF97 At some point I think I will give the Max Power a shot. I have tons of strings to go through, probably will take me a year or more lol but I'll add it to the list for sure. And are you talking about 4G soft? or just the 4G?

The regular 4g. Have never tried 4g soft. My arm is fairly sensitive to full poly in the RF97 but with Gut/poly can string 57/54-59/56 with 4g crosses and feel nothing in the arm.
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
Tension suggestion please!

I play with the new Pure Strike 16x19 with a full bed of Ytex's soft poly Square-X at 48-50lbs.

I recently had a buddy give me some Wilson Natural Gut 16g and I have some Kirschbaum Max Power 18 (1.20) as well. Is the poly too thin for a cross with gut?

I would love to try a gut/poly hybrid but do not know where I should start with tension...

It all depends on your game and how you play. Going from full poly to gut/poly hybrid can be a huge change for some. If you want a bit more control, string @ 58-59lbs gut, 52-53lbs poly. Note the Max Power 18 is stiffer than your Ytex, lowering the tension a bit is a good way to keep it from being too harsh.

I use 18g as a cross for the feel. Thinner crosses have less surface contact, so they tend to allow a bit more main string movement. I like it that way. YMMV
 

LeftyJunk

Rookie
It all depends on your game and how you play. Going from full poly to gut/poly hybrid can be a huge change for some. If you want a bit more control, string @ 58-59lbs gut, 52-53lbs poly. Note the Max Power 18 is stiffer than your Ytex, lowering the tension a bit is a good way to keep it from being too harsh.

I use 18g as a cross for the feel. Thinner crosses have less surface contact, so they tend to allow a bit more main string movement. I like it that way. YMMV
Thank you! That definitely gives me a starting point! I am mainly a baseline basher that doesn't have a problem making my way to the net when the opportunity presents itself.
 

tomato123

Professional
@tomato123 that's great to hear that Black Knight is still going strong for you. I'll definitely try that if you end up giving it the green light in the end. I do like the Head Hawk so far. I'm about 10 hours in and no issues so far. Only thing is it took some adjustment for me since I have been hitting with full poly setups. No complaints yet.

@USPTARF97 At some point I think I will give the Max Power a shot. I have tons of strings to go through, probably will take me a year or more lol but I'll add it to the list for sure. And are you talking about 4G soft? or just the 4G?

12 hours in with Black Knight crosses and still holding and the tension maintenance is still fantastic although it did loosen up a bit (but barely noticeable and easily adjusted for). I think it will go for another few hours before it breaks, but I like it enough to stick with it. At the same time I don't think I would recommend this outside an 18x20 pattern frame. I think something like Head Hawk or Wilson Revolve will still be a better all around cross string unless you are looking for something very specific. For me Black Knight maximizes control and tension stability, and the relative softness allows me to string a little tighter than I would with other poly strings. I don't believe it is as spin friendly as the other options as well, but heavy topspin and extended baseline rallies are not a big part of my game. So while it works for me, I don't think it's something I would encourage others to try since there are so many time tested and universally great options out there. Unless they really wanted to experiment or they're hoping for a very specific outcome.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
Now that I've snapped the VST16 with Tecnifibre Pro Redcode Wax 18g cross, I'll give my 1 cent:

Tension: 58lbs mains 53lbs cross 2% prestretch setting.

Compared to Yonex Poly Tour Fire 17 1.2mm:

Fresh off the stringer onto the court, the VST16/TPRW combo had very good bite and feels stiffer than the YPTF. This lends to a crisper feel. After about 2 sets, the tension did drop a bit, and the string bed had more power than the similarly string YPTF setup. I then rallied for 40 mins to really break in the strings. Even though the string bed had more power, the bite was as good as YPTF. With singles, this extra power would be more useful. I liked it after 2+ hrs of play. Stringmeter read 43lbs on the crosses before and 39lbs after the session. Feel was ok, on par with YPTF, but neither did much to give me superb feel with the SV98+. Volleys did feel a little looser, but nice power.

2 days later, I played 5.5/6.0 doubles and the tension drop was noticeable but not bad. I had to slightly adjust my swing to hit more spin, but the wax coating kept the spin going pretty well. Good power and spin, with feel even improving with the tension loss. I noticed a bit more fraying on the gut because of the added spin production. Stringmeter read 38lbs before and 36lbs after.

3 days after, I hit 30 mins then played 2 singles sets with a heavy hitting 5.5. I expected the tension to drop drastically but it didn't feel bad, like a gentle drop. The 1st set, topspin was still good, but by the 2nd set, the serves and groundies flew slightly. I suspect the wax coating was wearing out. Stringmeter read 34lbs before and 31lbs after the session. More fraying on the 3rd and 4th main around the 5th cross down, my usual hitting zone area.

4th session: I sprayed dry type silicone spray for the first time, thin coat. Spin production came back and tension loss seemed to have plateaued slightly to a comfortable tension. The control was still good, with the power being controlled by the extra bite. The spray seemed to work for the entire 2+ hr session, which was surprising since usually with a single coat, it doesn't. Still fraying was quite evident with the opponents big serve.

The gut finally snapped around the 12th hr mark, which put it on par of durability with YPTF. I did not have the opportunity to use the Playsight courts to check on veracity of my feel. Overall, it's a more powerful version of YPTF. I'd probably string it 1-2lbs higher to temper the power. I was ready to cut the string really because it was a bit too powerful for me to enjoy off the serve and low volleys especially, but quite nice to have off the ground and crunching high volleys and overheads.
Spin felt the same but I think YPTF's SIF coating lasts a bit longer, since I don't spray until the 5th or 6th session.
Tension maintenance was good, with a slightly steeper curve from YPTF.
Feel got better after the initial stiffness. YPTF has a more linear feel in tension loss.

Overall, I liked the TPRW as a cross for hybrid. And it is cheaper than the YPTF in reel form by 20%, which is significant. YPTF is more linear and has overall playability in a control string. TPRW has a bit of a tension curve then plays steadily as it tension loss begins to lineate after the initial curve. I'll have to experiment with tension to see if I can improve on it.

Very interesting you found Red Code Wax powerful, that is exactly my experience with the 1.25 gauge version, if YPTF is less powerful I may enjoy that more.
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
Very interesting you found Red Code Wax powerful, that is exactly my experience with the 1.25 gauge version, if YPTF is less powerful I may enjoy that more.
I now use 8% prestretch and it's a lot better. The 'wax' coating isn't as good as the YPTF infused silicone. It's apparently discontinued, so I'm stocking up!
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Some of you are weird, I dont have any issues with this huge tension drops.

Currently 8hours of hitting with gut/alu power and its great.

If anything its that 1st hour where the strings need to get played in and after that initial period its smooth and nice and consistent.
 

fjcamry

Semi-Pro
It all depends on your game and how you play. Going from full poly to gut/poly hybrid can be a huge change for some. If you want a bit more control, string @ 58-59lbs gut, 52-53lbs poly. Note the Max Power 18 is stiffer than your Ytex, lowering the tension a bit is a good way to keep it from being too harsh.

I use 18g as a cross for the feel. Thinner crosses have less surface contact, so they tend to allow a bit more main string movement. I like it that way. YMMV

I’m also using 18g soft round poly as crosses. I use kirschbaum proline ll 17L (1.20) , sometime known as 18g . But I use kirschbaum multifibre 16g mains at 58/54 in my weighted Graphene speed pros 18/20. It has good tension maintenance while being softer than regular 17g (1.25)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

fjcamry

Semi-Pro
Tension suggestion please!

I play with the new Pure Strike 16x19 with a full bed of Ytex's soft poly Square-X at 48-50lbs.

I recently had a buddy give me some Wilson Natural Gut 16g and I have some Kirschbaum Max Power 18 (1.20) as well. Is the poly too thin for a cross with gut?

I would love to try a gut/poly hybrid but do not know where I should start with tension...

I’m also using kirschbaum proline ll 17L (1.20) in my crosses with kirschbaum multifibre 16g mains at 58/54 in my weighted graphene speed pros 18/20. I think it too has great tension maintenance from its factory prestretch? and only when it starts to loose control maybe after 3 weeks playing with do I restring .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

fjcamry

Semi-Pro
Thank you! That definitely gives me a starting point! I am mainly a baseline basher that doesn't have a problem making my way to the net when the opportunity presents itself.

Then you will definitely appreciate the added touch on the mains for volley and control from the max power 18g crosses


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
Some of you are weird, I dont have any issues with this huge tension drops.

Currently 8hours of hitting with gut/alu power and its great.

If anything its that 1st hour where the strings need to get played in and after that initial period its smooth and nice and consistent.
Haha, well I like going out to play on a freshly strung frame. I try to start with the tension I'm most prefer. To each their own. Not everyone is like you, nor should they be. Too drastic a tension drop from copolys in the crosses can cause the launch angle to change enough to affect someone's game. It certainly does affect mine. I find it's easier to adjust to balls getting softer and fluffing up, than tension dropping below optimal.


How is this thread still alive?
Blame @aaron_h27! He quoted me so I felt obliged to reply with new info. LOL
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
I now use 8% prestretch and it's a lot better. The 'wax' coating isn't as good as the YPTF infused silicone. It's apparently discontinued, so I'm stocking up!

I don't have a pre-stretch function, gonna try raising the tension 2 lbs

It's definitely a nice cheap poly, might get another reel also.
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
I don't have a pre-stretch function, gonna try raising the tension 2 lbs

It's definitely a nice cheap poly, might get another reel also.
If you have a reel, cut out 4.5m, tie 1 end to something secure, and get a luggage scale and pull however many % you want. Helps with coil memory too. I see my stringer getting his kid to do this for me. This way, you'll also be able to accurately gauge how much string you need for the cross and maximize your reel.
 

landcookie

Semi-Pro
I now use 8% prestretch and it's a lot better. The 'wax' coating isn't as good as the YPTF infused silicone. It's apparently discontinued, so I'm stocking up!
Is this for real? The yptf getting discontinued? Anyway, my stringer recommended the poly tour spin g in a hybrid once, it has the same infused silicone thing.

Any advantages of going up 1.25 for the PTF? I play at 4-4.5 level so would be getting much longer life out of the stringbed, which may affect how the poly cross ages.

Has anyone here tried RS Lyon crosses as well?
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
Is this for real? The yptf getting discontinued? Anyway, my stringer recommended the poly tour spin g in a hybrid once, it has the same infused silicone thing.

Any advantages of going up 1.25 for the PTF? I play at 4-4.5 level so would be getting much longer life out of the stringbed, which may affect how the poly cross ages.

Has anyone here tried RS Lyon crosses as well?
No. It's the PRCW. YPTF is still in the market.
 

landcookie

Semi-Pro
The gut is the string that breaks first. I don't get more than 12 hrs usually on 16g gut. So I go with thinnest for maximum feel and comfort!
Gotcha! Makes sense. I don't break strings as fast so maybe will start off with the 1.25 to see how it plays.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
The gut is the string that breaks first. I don't get more than 12 hrs usually on 16g gut. So I go with thinnest for maximum feel and comfort!

I never break strings, but my strings loose too much tension after about 10-12 hrs, thinking about going thinner but im worried it will raise the launch angle too much.

Im using 1.25 now
 

Sardines

Hall of Fame
The power difference, as most of the differences, are negligible, except the silicone coating vs the PE, and of course the 40% difference in price. PTF is prestretched at the factory. PRCW is not. That is the biggest difference. Personally, PTF is a slightly deader and stiffer PTP.


Very interesting you found Red Code Wax powerful, that is exactly my experience with the 1.25 gauge version, if YPTF is less powerful I may enjoy that more.
 

aaron_h27

Hall of Fame
The power difference, as most of the differences, are negligible, except the silicone coating vs the PE, and of course the 40% difference in price. PTF is prestretched at the factory. PRCW is not. That is the biggest difference. Personally, PTF is a slightly deader and stiffer PTP.

Ok gotcha, since red code wax is discontinued ill most likely be switching to PTF or Max Power. Thanks
 
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