A Tactic For Matches

[thomas daniels]

In your tennis matches.

Start recognizing patterns of play and then start coming up with own ways to neutralize those patterns during the match.

By the way.

"Never try the same tactics or patterns on an opponent who has beaten you before".

I know.

It sounds like a no-brainer right?

But I see juniors doing this all the time here in Kansai.

And before you shake your head...

You are probably doing it yourself now and don't even know it!!

So what we are talking about here is..... Patterns of Play.

Every player has their own favorite patterns for matches.

The better you can get at studying, and recognizing these patterns, the better you will get at neutralizing your opponents, no matter who it may be.

The tactic is called.

Broken Rhythm Method.

This would be patterns that you can use to negate your opponent from playing their own patterns against you.

Just keep this in mind.

All players like to find their timing and rhythm in matches by using cross-court topspin shots during points.

So.

You could break that pattern by throwing in a slice here and there during the point, to break their rhythm.

My favorite pattern of play to break their rhythm is this one though.

First, a heavy topspin crosscourt shot, followed by a biting slice(which they usually miss, but if they don't, their return will most likely be short, so step in and hit an approach shot flat down the line and close the net and finish off the point.

"You can do this off- the backhand side, on the forehand, try to vary the angles that you use on your cross court shots and then go straight down the line. on all short balls."

The question I have for you guys is this...

"How well do you recognize patterns during your matches?"

And.

"How well are you at neutralizing those patterns before the match is finish"?

 

[PittsburghDad]

Only one pattern will matter in the near future. Inside out forehands. Who can get there first and who can control from there. Then the game will catch up and we will see patterns innovate some more.

This isn't hard to see. It's happening on the ATP Tour as we speak.

 

[thomas daniels]

Only one pattern will matter in the near future. Inside out forehands. Who can get there first and who can control from there. Then the game will catch up and we will see patterns innovate some more.

This isn't hard to see. It's happening on the ATP Tour as we speak.

One strike tennis, but did you see the match yesterday with Fed and Nadal? Did you see the patterns they were using? No, my friend, there will always be patterns of play at every level of the game, you can bank on that!!

 

[PittsburghDad]

One strike tennis, but did you see the match yesterday with Fed and Nadal? Did you see the patterns they were using? No, my friend, there will always be patterns of play at every level of the game, you can bank on that!!

Yes. There will always be patterns. But I believe the near future, and at the top, will be the battle to get to the inside out. And then everything will develop and play off of that.

 

[rogerroger917]

What you posted is not patterns of play. You do not even know what it means. You posted shot selection.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Only one pattern will matter in the near future. Inside out forehands. Who can get there first and who can control from there. Then the game will catch up and we will see patterns innovate some more.

This isn't hard to see. It's happening on the ATP Tour as we speak.

For Pros, I'd agree to some extent. But at the rec level? I don't think so. Maybe for people playing >= 5.0.

Then again, as younger players start moving up and replacing the older ones, so might the game you envision.

 

[PittsburghDad]

For Pros, I'd agree to some extent. But at the rec level? I don't think so. Maybe for people playing >= 5.0.

Then again, as younger players start moving up and replacing the older ones, so might the game you envision.

I don't care about the rec game to be honest. It's not even comparable.

 

[rogerroger917]

Yes. There will always be patterns. But I believe the near future, and at the top, will be the battle to get to the inside out. And then everything will develop and play off of that.

Actually you are correct. It already happened.

The position left of the center hash is the most played spot for right handed players top of the ATP. Why? I/o fh. Pattern is deep to opponent backhand pushing him back, next ball you hit is sharper angle off the court. 3rd shot is into open court inside in fh winner. Or if opponent recovers fast to cover their fh corner you hit behind him to backhand and approach. Next volley is put away or overhead winner.

This is statistically charted already and the academy kids are absolutely practicing patterns like this. Based on ATP play. My son drills this for 2 years now. Among other patterns. The data is being utilised by the better coaches now.

 

[PittsburghDad]

Actually you are correct. It already happened.

The position left of the center hash is the most played spot for right handed players top of the ATP. Why? I/o fh. Pattern is deep to opponent backhand pushing him back, next ball you hit is sharper angle off the court. 3rd shot is into open court inside in fh winner. Or if opponent recovers fast to cover their fh corner you hit behind him to backhand and approach. Next volley is put away or overhead winner.

This is statistically charted already and the academy kids are absolutely practicing patterns like this. Based on ATP play. My son drills this for 2 years now. Among other patterns. The data is being utilised by the better coaches now.

Yep. It's coming on us fast. Get that drop right foot, shuffle down. They are going to need it! . It's RIDICULOUS the options you have from that position. And the go to is STILL a forehand over the low of the net into big space. Absolute green light.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

In your tennis matches. Start recognizing patterns of play and then start coming up with own ways to neutralize those patterns during the match.

By the way. "Never try the same tactics or patterns on an opponent who has beaten you before".

I know. It sounds like a no-brainer right?

But I see juniors doing this all the time here in Kansai.

I don't like using absolutes like "always" and "never".

For example, if Jones beat me 6-4 6-4, I would hardly consider that a crushing loss and would have no problem trying the same strategy again; perhaps I simply didn't execute very well the prior time?

Or what if, even though he had beaten me, I have also beaten him? Do I toss my Plan A? I'd argue "no".

So what we are talking about here is..... Patterns of Play.

Every player has their own favorite patterns for matches.

The better you can get at studying, and recognizing these patterns, the better you will get at neutralizing your opponents, no matter who it may be.

The tactic is called.

Broken Rhythm Method.

This would be patterns that you can use to negate your opponent from playing their own patterns against you.

Just keep this in mind.

All players like to find their timing and rhythm in matches by using cross-court topspin shots during points.

There's another absolute ["all players"].

Not everyone is identical. Pushers, a very large category, may fall outside of your definition. Big servers too.

You could break that pattern by throwing in a slice here and there during the point, to break their rhythm.

I think this is sound. Although I can't say I've ever broken someone's rhythm merely by throwing in a slice here and there. Breaking a rhythm usually requires more.

My favorite pattern of play to break their rhythm is this one though.

First, a heavy topspin crosscourt shot, followed by a biting slice(which they usually miss, but if they don't, their return will most likely be short, so step in and hit an approach shot flat down the line and close the net and finish off the point.

Most opponents I can think of can take my heavy TS CC and give me back an equally heavy TS CC, perhaps better.

And they wouldn't miss my slice; again, they might send it back with interest.

"You can do this off- the backhand side, on the forehand, try to vary the angles that you use on your cross court shots and then go straight down the line. on all short balls."

The question I have for you guys is this...

"How well do you recognize patterns during your matches?"

And.

"How well are you at neutralizing those patterns before the match is finish"?

Recognizing is one thing; taking action and neutralizing is significantly more difficult. I'm not opposed to your suggestions but I think there may more to it than what you outline.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I don't care about the rec game to be honest. It's not even comparable.

And I don't care about the pro game for the same reason [at least, from the standpoint of what I'm capable of].

 

[rogerroger917]

I've been studying patterns of play with my son's coaches past 3 years with the specific intent of matching winning patterns to my son's game. We live and breath winning tennis matches and this coach comes in here and says hit a slice they will miss. No the good players do not miss because you slice.

Please quantify your tips being for beginner or semi competent players. Not suitable for advanced competitors.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

And I don't care about the pro game for the same reason [at least, from the standpoint of what I'm capable of].

Obviously, because if I did care about the pro game, I wouldn't S&V!

 

[thomas daniels]

Yes. There will always be patterns. But I believe the near future, and at the top, will be the battle to get to the inside out. And then everything will develop and play off of that.

Okay, nice come back, my friend!!!

 

[PittsburghDad]

And I don't care about the pro game for the same reason [at least, from the standpoint of what I'm capable of].

Great. I wasn't commenting on your posts for a reason. We aren't talking the same sport. Nothing to discuss. Not trying to be a jerk. Your clearly a very solid person. I'm just saying, we aren't dealing in the same tennis.

 

[PittsburghDad]

I've been studying patterns of play with my son's coaches past 3 years with the specific intent of matching winning patterns to my son's game. We live and breath winning tennis matches and this coach comes in here and says hit a slice they will miss. No the good players do not miss because you slice.

Please quantify your tips being for beginner or semi competent players. Not suitable for advanced competitors.

This. .

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Okay, nice come back, my friend!!!

@PittsburghDad - consider yourself one of the few that disagreed with what Mr. Daniels said and somehow avoided being called a "stupid clown" or an "energy vampire". If it were me or @rogerroger917 or @Shroud or @styksnstryngs, we would have gotten the disapproval treatment. And you got 3 exclamation points to boot.

 

[PittsburghDad]

Obviously, because if I did care about the pro game, I wouldn't S&V!

Well. I don't know. Had a chance for my daughter to hit with the practice partners for the Mexican Davis Cup team. (long story, super cool). These guys were brutal. And the entire point of all of there play was to ADVANCE. Couldn't really s and v, however these guys get to net as soon as humanly possible. Always looking to hurt the opponent and GET FORWARD. I think serve and volley has ALOT to foreshadow.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Great. I wasn't commenting on your posts for a reason. We aren't talking the same sport. Nothing to discuss. Not trying to be a jerk. Your clearly a very solid person. I'm just saying, we aren't dealing in the same tennis.

Understood. You're looking at it perhaps from the viewpoint of what your daughter is/might be facing. I'm looking at it from an adult rec perspective. If I get insanely good, I might have to think about your perspective. But it's unlikely I'll improve that much.

 

[PittsburghDad]

@PittsburghDad - consider yourself one of the few that disagreed with what Mr. Daniels said and somehow avoided being called a "stupid clown" or an "energy vampire". If it were me or @rogerroger917 or @Shroud or @styksnstryngs, we would have gotten the disapproval treatment. And you got 3 exclamation points to boot.

I'm honored. Maybe.

 

[PittsburghDad]

Understood. You're looking at it perhaps from the viewpoint of what your daughter is/might be facing. I'm looking at it from an adult rec perspective. If I get insanely good, I might have to think about your perspective. But it's unlikely I'll improve that much.

Yes. And I have huge respect for the guys getting better. It takes alot of effort.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Well. I don't know. Had a chance for my daughter to hit with the practice partners for the Mexican Davis Cup team. (long story, super cool). These guys were brutal. And the entire point of all of there play was to ADVANCE. Couldn't really s and v, however these guys get to net as soon as humanly possible. Almost looking to hurt the opponent and GET FORWARD. I think serve and volley has ALOT to foreshadow.

Interesting. Maybe S&V isn't going to the Smithsonian after all!

 

[PittsburghDad]

Interesting. Maybe S&V isn't going to the Smithsonian after all!

I don't think it is at all. It's just too beautiful and perfect. I think we have yet to see the evolution of it. But I really feel it has a place.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I've been studying patterns of play with my son's coaches past 3 years with the specific intent of matching winning patterns to my son's game. We live and breath winning tennis matches and this coach comes in here and says hit a slice they will miss. No the good players do not miss because you slice.

Please quantify your tips being for beginner or semi competent players. Not suitable for advanced competitors.

He either believes the tips are applicable to everyone or that the board contains no advanced competitors. His tone suggests we've never studied the game before or even read, say, *Winning Ugly*.

 

[rogerroger917]

He either believes the tips are applicable to everyone or that the board contains no advanced competitors. His tone suggests we've never studied the game before or even read, say, *Winning Ugly*.

I have quite a few men players I know who are 50 years old. They play 4.0 league. They all read winning ugly. These are old men. Who play doubles.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I don't think it is at all. It's just too beautiful and perfect. I think we have yet to see the evolution of it. But I really feel it has a place.

Maybe if they went back to wooden racquets and only playing on grass. I still have a Jack Kramer racquet with the screw press somewhere...

But I do enjoy seeing the evolution of the game.

 

[Shroud]

I have quite a few men players I know who are 50 years old. They play 4.0 league. They all read winning ugly. These are old men. Who play doubles.

I never finished. I checked out at the proper stretching part and well he was going to make me into a pusher so I bailed.

 

[styksnstryngs]

@PittsburghDad - consider yourself one of the few that disagreed with what Mr. Daniels said and somehow avoided being called a "stupid clown" or an "energy vampire". If it were me or @rogerroger917 or @Shroud or @styksnstryngs, we would have gotten the disapproval treatment. And you got 3 exclamation points to boot.

Hey! I'm only a rookie! What's your excuse?

 

[SinjinCooper]

Only one pattern will matter in the near future. Inside out forehands. Who can get there first and who can control from there. Then the game will catch up and we will see patterns innovate some more.

This isn't hard to see. It's happening on the ATP Tour as we speak.

This was 1990. If you're there, say hi to Jim Courier. He was the guy who really broke through with a forehand, better-than-you fitness, and a willingness to devote himself mind, body, and soul to the God of Running Around Backhands No Matter How Far Out of Position It Leaves You.

At the top level, the best players have long since developed techniques and tactics to exploit that tendency. That's why it died as a slam winning strategy around Roddick.

You see it in high level junior tennis in the U.S. because there isn't any high level junior tennis in the U.S. There's just this. Tha ABC approach to junior development. Serve, FH, Fitness. It sticks around because it's so simple. Means adherents improve as much as possible as fast as possible, and anyone trying to develop a more complete game is certain to drop in the rankings until they're much older. No time for that sort of development in Western society. Scholarships and sponsorships are at stake. Hell, I preach it myself.

Same strategy has been shown over and over since the turn of the century to have a limited ceiling.

You'll always see good players trotting out the Bollettieri Three Step. But you'll never see them at the top. That ship has sailed. Gone the way of S&V. Can still win that way...just not at the top.

 

[PittsburghDad]

This was 1990. If you're there, say hi to Jim Courier. He was the guy who really broke through with a forehand, better-than-you fitness, and a willingness to devote himself mind, body, and soul to the God of Running Around Backhands No Matter How Far Out of Position It Leaves You.

At the top level, the best players have long since developed techniques and tactics to exploit that tendency. That's why it died as a slam winning strategy around Roddick.

You see it in high level junior tennis in the U.S. because there isn't any high level junior tennis in the U.S. There's just this. Tha ABC approach to junior development. Serve, FH, Fitness. It sticks around because it's so simple. Means adherents improve as much as possible as fast as possible, and anyone trying to develop a more complete game is certain to drop in the rankings until they're much older. No time for that sort of development in Western society. Scholarships and sponsorships are at stake. Hell, I preach it myself.

Same strategy has been shown over and over since the turn of the century to have a limited ceiling.

You'll always see good players trotting out the Bollettieri Three Step. But you'll never see them at the top. That ship has sailed. Gone the way of S&V. Can still win that way...just not at the top.

No doubt the inside out started with Nick B's crew. But I think the ball is being hit so hard the strategy takes on new dimensions.
"Every single time I can hit an inside out, I will"
Novak.

 

[J011yroger]

This was 1990. If you're there, say hi to Jim Courier. He was the guy who really broke through with a forehand, better-than-you fitness, and a willingness to devote himself mind, body, and soul to the God of Running Around Backhands No Matter How Far Out of Position It Leaves You.

At the top level, the best players have long since developed techniques and tactics to exploit that tendency. That's why it died as a slam winning strategy around Roddick.

You see it in high level junior tennis in the U.S. because there isn't any high level junior tennis in the U.S. There's just this. Tha ABC approach to junior development. Serve, FH, Fitness. It sticks around because it's so simple. Means adherents improve as much as possible as fast as possible, and anyone trying to develop a more complete game is certain to drop in the rankings until they're much older. No time for that sort of development in Western society. Scholarships and sponsorships are at stake. Hell, I preach it myself.

Same strategy has been shown over and over since the turn of the century to have a limited ceiling.

You'll always see good players trotting out the Bollettieri Three Step. But you'll never see them at the top. That ship has sailed. Gone the way of S&V. Can still win that way...just not at the top.

Neither Serve, Forehand, nor Fitness starts with A, B, or C.

What kind of coach are you?

J

 

[J011yroger]

In your tennis matches.

Start recognizing patterns of play and then start coming up with own ways to neutralize those patterns during the match.

By the way.

"Never try the same tactics or patterns on an opponent who has beaten you before".

I know.

It sounds like a no-brainer right?

But I see juniors doing this all the time here in Kansai.

And before you shake your head...

You are probably doing it yourself now and don't even know it!!

So what we are talking about here is..... Patterns of Play.

Every player has their own favorite patterns for matches.

The better you can get at studying, and recognizing these patterns, the better you will get at neutralizing your opponents, no matter who it may be.

The tactic is called.

Broken Rhythm Method.

This would be patterns that you can use to negate your opponent from playing their own patterns against you.

Just keep this in mind.

All players like to find their timing and rhythm in matches by using cross-court topspin shots during points.

So.

You could break that pattern by throwing in a slice here and there during the point, to break their rhythm.

My favorite pattern of play to break their rhythm is this one though.

First, a heavy topspin crosscourt shot, followed by a biting slice(which they usually miss, but if they don't, their return will most likely be short, so step in and hit an approach shot flat down the line and close the net and finish off the point.

"You can do this off- the backhand side, on the forehand, try to vary the angles that you use on your cross court shots and then go straight down the line. on all short balls."

The question I have for you guys is this...

"How well do you recognize patterns during your matches?"

And.

"How well are you at neutralizing those patterns before the match is finish"?

Why are you still here?

J

 

[onehandbh]

No doubt the inside out started with Nick B's crew. But I think the ball is being hit so hard the strategy takes on new dimensions.
"Every single time I can hit an inside out, I will"
Novak.

Novak also has one of the best DTL and CC backhands.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Again, I'm not saying this isn't the past, present, and future of American junior tennis. It is, and has been for decades.

But that's also why it's a ship that's left port at high levels. The best players have been dealing with I/O FH junkies since they were toddlers for generations now.

Those who've adapted even to merely the extent that they can simply neutralize that stuff off the BH wing win by attrition, since they're running five steps for every ten of yours.

That said, it's still the best path to most players' ceilings, since those ceilings are limited for most, anyway.

And it's what I teach kids who started late and now need to play catchup to country club brats. You can't go back in time, so you have to exploit simplicity of gameplan and willingness to work harder off court.

 

[PittsburghDad]

Again, I'm not saying this isn't the past, present, and future of American junior tennis. It is, and has been for decades.

But that's also why it's a ship that's left port at high levels. The best players have been dealing with I/O FH junkies since they were toddlers for generations now.

Those who've adapted even to merely the extent that they can simply neutralize that stuff off the BH wing win by attrition, since they're running five steps for every ten of yours.

That said, it's still the best path to most players' ceilings, since those ceilings are limited for most, anyway.

And it's what I teach kids who started late and now need to play catchup to country club brats. You can't go back in time, so you have to exploit simplicity of gameplan and willingness to work harder off court.

What's your take on it in the women's game? It's really never been used there. And I'm not quite sure why.

 

[PittsburghDad]

Kyrygios' no back swing hard push dtl is a brutal adaptation to countering the I/O.

 

[rogerroger917]

This was 1990. If you're there, say hi to Jim Courier. He was the guy who really broke through with a forehand, better-than-you fitness, and a willingness to devote himself mind, body, and soul to the God of Running Around Backhands No Matter How Far Out of Position It Leaves You.

At the top level, the best players have long since developed techniques and tactics to exploit that tendency. That's why it died as a slam winning strategy around Roddick.

You see it in high level junior tennis in the U.S. because there isn't any high level junior tennis in the U.S. There's just this. Tha ABC approach to junior development. Serve, FH, Fitness. It sticks around because it's so simple. Means adherents improve as much as possible as fast as possible, and anyone trying to develop a more complete game is certain to drop in the rankings until they're much older. No time for that sort of development in Western society. Scholarships and sponsorships are at stake. Hell, I preach it myself.

Same strategy has been shown over and over since the turn of the century to have a limited ceiling.

You'll always see good players trotting out the Bollettieri Three Step. But you'll never see them at the top. That ship has sailed. Gone the way of S&V. Can still win that way...just not at the top.

The premise was not the run around forehand from side alley. It is controlling the point from the left side of the center. Fh to opponent backhand. And the time top pros spend there. I have subscribed to the braingame tennis website. The data used is from current players. Federer, etc.... They play from the spot left of the center hash most. Hitting fhs. The stats say this. The points won percentage says this. The match win stats say this. It is not the same as the Bolleteri method of only fh at all costs. When it's wide you hit a backhand to preserve court position. But the undisputed fact is that the top players in the ATP right now spend most of their time in a match standing hitting fhs from left of the center hash. Craig O'Shannessy has the breakdown of data. You can see it in a chart. It is not disbutable.

 

[J011yroger]

What's your take on it in the women's game? It's really never been used there. And I'm not quite sure why.

Women aren't fast enough to run around in the first place and if they do, they aren't fast enough to get to the dtl backhand from their opponent and flick the angle forehand winner.

Surrendering court position is a bad plan when you don't have speed.

Edit: Women's forehands are generally not weighty enough to make changing direction on them difficult/risky.

J

 

[styksnstryngs]

What's your take on it in the women's game? It's really never been used there. And I'm not quite sure why.

TBH I think it's a combination of the weaker forehands and stronger backhands. The relatively even strokes make it a waste of energy to run around the backhand. Movement also is not quite as good. The main thing, though, is that they simply cannot punish the forehand enough to justify exerting extra energy while leaving a large part of the court open for the opponent to blast a backhand DTL winner.

 

[iChen]

TBH I think it's a combination of the weaker forehands and stronger backhands. The relatively even strokes make it a waste of energy to run around the backhand. Movement also is not quite as good. The main thing, though, is that they simply cannot punish the forehand enough to justify exerting extra energy while leaving a large part of the court open for the opponent to blast a backhand DTL winner.

Really movement is like half of it. Also I’d say there’s only like a few to really be able to blast DTL winners with a backhand well even against big hitters, and I’d say like Stephens, Keys, Venus, etc.

 

[Limpinhitter]

In your tennis matches.

Start recognizing patterns of play and then start coming up with own ways to neutralize those patterns during the match.

By the way.

"Never try the same tactics or patterns on an opponent who has beaten you before".

I know.

It sounds like a no-brainer right?

But I see juniors doing this all the time here in Kansai.

And before you shake your head...

You are probably doing it yourself now and don't even know it!!

So what we are talking about here is..... Patterns of Play.

Every player has their own favorite patterns for matches.

The better you can get at studying, and recognizing these patterns, the better you will get at neutralizing your opponents, no matter who it may be.

The tactic is called.

Broken Rhythm Method.

This would be patterns that you can use to negate your opponent from playing their own patterns against you.

Just keep this in mind.

All players like to find their timing and rhythm in matches by using cross-court topspin shots during points.

So.

You could break that pattern by throwing in a slice here and there during the point, to break their rhythm.

My favorite pattern of play to break their rhythm is this one though.

First, a heavy topspin crosscourt shot, followed by a biting slice(which they usually miss, but if they don't, their return will most likely be short, so step in and hit an approach shot flat down the line and close the net and finish off the point.

"You can do this off- the backhand side, on the forehand, try to vary the angles that you use on your cross court shots and then go straight down the line. on all short balls."

The question I have for you guys is this...

"How well do you recognize patterns during your matches?"

And.

"How well are you at neutralizing those patterns before the match is finish"?

I subscribe to the Jack Kramer method of high percentage tennis.

 

[Topspin Shot]

The premise was not the run around forehand from side alley. It is controlling the point from the left side of the center. Fh to opponent backhand. And the time top pros spend there. I have subscribed to the braingame tennis website. The data used is from current players. Federer, etc.... They play from the spot left of the center hash most. Hitting fhs. The stats say this. The points won percentage says this. The match win stats say this. It is not the same as the Bolleteri method of only fh at all costs. When it's wide you hit a backhand to preserve court position. But the undisputed fact is that the top players in the ATP right now spend most of their time in a match standing hitting fhs from left of the center hash. Craig O'Shannessy has the breakdown of data. You can see it in a chart. It is not disbutable.

I've put more hours into studying math and stats as your son has into tennis. Be careful what you conclude from data. It can be incredibly misleading especially if it's being manipulated by someone trying to sell himself as a guru.

 

[rogerroger917]

I've put more hours into studying math and stats as your son has into tennis. Be careful what you conclude from data. It can be incredibly misleading especially if it's being manipulated by someone trying to sell himself as a guru.

It's a tool. And has absolutely helped his tennis. In fact the academy has adapted many of the tenets of the stats. The win is the most important. Actually the stats basically follow Wardlaw directional.

Moving away from grinding. Pushing forward.

 

[PittsburghDad]

TBH I think it's a combination of the weaker forehands and stronger backhands. The relatively even strokes make it a waste of energy to run around the backhand. Movement also is not quite as good. The main thing, though, is that they simply cannot punish the forehand enough to justify exerting extra energy while leaving a large part of the court open for the opponent to blast a backhand DTL winner.

I agree. Thanks for the response.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Hey! I'm only a rookie! What's your excuse?

I must just not "get it".

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

You'll always see good players trotting out the Bollettieri Three Step. But you'll never see them at the top. That ship has sailed. Gone the way of S&V. Can still win that way...just not at the top.

That's fine by me!

 

[Limpinhitter]

Women aren't fast enough to run around in the first place and if they do, they aren't fast enough to get to the dtl backhand from their opponent and flick the angle forehand winner.

Surrendering court position is a bad plan when you don't have speed.

Edit: Women's forehands are generally not weighty enough to make changing direction on them difficult/risky.

J

Steffi Graf.

 

[Wise one]

This was 1990. If you're there, say hi to Jim Courier. He was the guy who really broke through with a forehand, better-than-you fitness, and a willingness to devote himself mind, body, and soul to the God of Running Around Backhands No Matter How Far Out of Position It Leaves You.

At the top level, the best players have long since developed techniques and tactics to exploit that tendency. That's why it died as a slam winning strategy around Roddick.

You see it in high level junior tennis in the U.S. because there isn't any high level junior tennis in the U.S. There's just this. Tha ABC approach to junior development. Serve, FH, Fitness. It sticks around because it's so simple. Means adherents improve as much as possible as fast as possible, and anyone trying to develop a more complete game is certain to drop in the rankings until they're much older. No time for that sort of development in Western society. Scholarships and sponsorships are at stake. Hell, I preach it myself.

Same strategy has been shown over and over since the turn of the century to have a limited ceiling.

You'll always see good players trotting out the Bollettieri Three Step. But you'll never see them at the top. That ship has sailed. Gone the way of S&V. Can still win that way...just not at the top.

Again, I must complain most vociferously at the cretinous slugs who call themselves tennis coaches, who produce Wunderkinder that are all washed up at age 27. These 'coaches' should be put out of business, permanently!

I know of one young man who was a very good player who came to the net and won short points in high school, who was 'coached' in college to 'grind it out' from the baseline, get fitter, etc. Why? What kind of imbecile coaches this way?

Inside-out forehands, my ass!

 

[thomas daniels]

Again, I must complain most vociferously at the cretinous slugs who call themselves tennis coaches, who produce Wunderkinder that are all washed up at age 27. These 'coaches' should be put out of business, permanently!

I know of one young man who was a very good player who came to the net and won short points in high school, who was 'coached' in college to 'grind it out' from the baseline, get fitter, etc. Why? What kind of imbecile coaches this way?

Inside-out forehands, my ass!

You lost me there!! I teach my players to come in on all short balls.

 

[Wise one]

You lost me there!! I teach my players to come in on all short balls.

Huh? What are you talking about? These run-around forehands are usually hit from near the baseline, from what I have seen.