A tale of three Italians and the source of Clostebol: Battaglino, Bortolotti and Sinner - one got four years, two 'no fault, no negligence'!

[Rovesciarete]

There has been hardly any interest of the fate of Battaglino or Bortolotti after they tested positive but a media storm after it happened to the Nr.1 player of the tour. Journalists, players and posters alike have been confounded by the news and few have read one report and hardly any I guess all three before commenting. ITIA has made them all available on their website and after a close study is quite easy to understand why two could got the 'no fault, no negligence' outcome:

ITIA report 'Stefano Battaglino': Stefano argued that the tournament physio transmitted clostebol into his body with his treatment but could no produce a plausible source as the physio could not be contacted and was thus unavailable. As a result he was banned for four years. Short sections like names blackened.

ITIA report 'Marco Bortolotti': Marco argued that he got it through the use of a cream containing clostebol and could satisfactorily provide both source and transmission. The specifics are blackened due to privacy. His case when public only after it was ruled that Marco had 'no fault, no negligence'. He never stopped playing but it was his planned off-season anyway*, as he said in this interview.

ITIA report 'Jannik Sinner': Jannik argued that his physio treated a cut with a spray containing clostebol and transmitted it by massages into his skin damaged by dermatitis. He could quickly provide both source, bought by his athletic coach and the transmission through he wound of his physio. No specifics are blackened. His case went only public after he was cleared with 'no fault, no negligence'. He also didn't stop playing as he was able to quickly pinpoint a plausible reason.

A relevant study about clostebol's transmission mechanisms and decay!


*BTW his Visa got denied by the US as he played in Iran in 2015!

 

[Rovesciarete]

A key analysis by Edmund Willison to understand the specific Italian context:

Italy has quite clearly been in the midst of a clostebol crisis, of some form or another, for much of the past decade. A decade in which clostebol detection methods have become more sensitive.

According to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), half of the world’s clostebol cases come from Italy. A statistic partially explained by the fact that Italy is one of the only remaining countries in which clostebol is still sold.

 

[Bartelby]

It's a universal truth that drugs that are generally useful will be taken off the market due to scare campaigns.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

It's a universal truth that drugs that are generally useful will be taken off the market due to scare campaigns.

The vast majority of Italians use Trofodermin as intended to treat cuts and abrasions.
It is perfectly safe. Available OTC. There is absolutely no public safety factor here so scare campaigns are irrelevant.
The only question is whether the OTC access to the public should be restricted should because a very small minority are abusing it to gain athletic advantage.
Obviously not.

 

[Bartelby]

Russians and other East Europeans used Meldonium for no documentable benefit before it fell victim to a politically-oriented scare campaign.

If Clostebol is useful then I don't see that misuse in sports should result in people being deprived of a useful medication.

 

[canta_Brian]

Russians and other East Europeans used Meldonium for no documentable benefit before it fell victim to a politically-oriented scare campaign.

If Clostebol is useful then I don't see that misuse in sports should result in people being deprived of a useful medication.

Sounds like banning meldonium did these Russians and east Europeans a favour then.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Russians and other East Europeans used Meldonium for no documentable benefit before it fell victim to a politically-oriented scare campaign.

What do you mean it was being used for no documentable benefit? It was primarily being used to treat heart conditions.

According to the drugmaker’s website, meldonium is primarily used to treat heart-related conditions — like angina pectoris and heart failure — that block blood and oxygen to the heart muscle. The drugmaker also says meldonium can also improve “physical capacity and mental function” in healthy people.

 

[Bartelby]

Saved then a dollar per tablet essentially.

Sounds like banning meldonium did these Russians and east Europeans a favour then.

 

[Bartelby]

The manufacturer claimed that but no one has done any research other than a self-interested party, so it has no documented benefit for anything.

As someone who steadfastly ignores the mountains of evidence in favour of AGW then to claim this benefit as scientifically documented is laughable.

What do you mean it was being used for no documentable benefit? It was primarily being used to treat heart conditions.

According to the drugmaker’s website, meldonium is primarily used to treat heart-related conditions — like angina pectoris and heart failure — that block blood and oxygen to the heart muscle. The drugmaker also says meldonium can also improve “physical capacity and mental function” in healthy people.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

The manufacturer claimed that but no one has done any research other than a self-interested party, so it has no documented benefit for anything.

As someone who steadfastly ignores the mountains of evidence in favour of AGW then to claim this benefit as scientifically documented is laughable.

It was commonly prescribed by Doctors in Eastern Europe and Russia.

Protective Effects of Meldonium in Experimental Models of Cardiovascular Complications with a Potential Application in COVID-19

Right ventricular (RV) and left ventricular (LV) dysfunction is common in a significant number of hospitalized coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) patients. This study was conducted to assess whether the improved mitochondrial bioenergetics by cardiometabolic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Meldonium has a good safety profile and a long period of elimination in humans. In clinical practice, meldonium is used in the complex therapy of chronic heart failure . In addition, it has been shown that meldonium improves exercise tolerance in patients with stable angina .
Overall, these results suggest that treatment with meldonium can be beneficial for COVID-19-related cardiovascular complications.

 

[Bartelby]

You're a scientific illiterate. This is home-town hero research.

It was commonly prescribed by Doctors in Eastern Europe and Russia.

Protective Effects of Meldonium in Experimental Models of Cardiovascular Complications with a Potential Application in COVID-19

Right ventricular (RV) and left ventricular (LV) dysfunction is common in a significant number of hospitalized coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) patients. This study was conducted to assess whether the improved mitochondrial bioenergetics by cardiometabolic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Meldonium has a good safety profile and a long period of elimination in humans. In clinical practice, meldonium is used in the complex therapy of chronic heart failure . In addition, it has been shown that meldonium improves exercise tolerance in patients with stable angina .
Overall, these results suggest that treatment with meldonium can be beneficial for COVID-19-related cardiovascular complications.

 

[Rovesciarete]

It's a universal truth that drugs that are generally useful will be taken off the market due to scare campaigns.

The vast majority of Italians use Trofodermin as intended to treat cuts and abrasions.
It is perfectly safe. Available OTC. There is absolutely no public safety factor here so scare campaigns are irrelevant.

Can confirm and changed my mind. If it is x more useful than competitors with only potential harm y it would be wrong to deny access to millions just to protect a small number of professional athletes. Not the job of the regulators, but the one of sport institutions and athletes.

 

[Raiden]

It is verly clear that this is not only doping but state sponsored doping.

The very fact that clostebol is available over the counter with no doctor ordered prescription is proof of that. Basically the Italian cycling lobby led to it being legal so that the athletes would individually buy it (and circumvent having to go thru a distributor).

The active ingredient was invented by East Germans to scam the Olympics and other events. Not to apply it in the country's first aid system. Nowadays no other country sells this product except Italy (and at times Brazil and that too is a doping program as far as I'm concerned — Brazilians copying Italians who copied East Germans.

 

[Sandokan]

It is verly clear that this is not only doping but state sponsored doping.

The very fact that clostebol is available over the counter with no doctor ordered prescription is proof of that. Basically the Italian cycling lobby led to it being legal so that the athletes would individually buy it (and circumvent having to go thru a distributor).

The active ingredient was invented by East Germans to scam the Olympics and other events. Not to apply it in the country's first aid system. Nowadays no other country sells this product except Italy (and at times Brazil and that too is a doping program as far as I'm concerned — Brazilians copying Italians who copied East Germans.

I hope that you were joking, because this is too damn funny to be involuntary humour.
Let me translate into images what you are saying. You envision a typical Italian pharmacy choke full of gym rats, giant muscular culturists, dwarving the smaller cyclist next to them, built to pedal up the mountains. And sportsmen from every discipline, from tennis to football, from basketball to volleyball, track & field, swimmers and what not. All lining in front of the cash register, excited to stock up on the coveted Trofodermin creme or Trofodermin spray, that miraculous muscle builder and performance enhancer that makes those risky purchases of proviron, deca-durabolin, winstrol, or trenbolone on the black market a thing of the past.
Because, as every elite athlete knows, there is nothing better to dope with than a substance used in the mythical golden era of the 1960' sixties in East Germany, which combines the two great benefits of a low potency and extremely long detection times, as its metabolites stay in the system for up to a month after exposure.
That's why I'm sure you were joking

 

[vokazu]

If Clostebol is useful then I don't see that misuse in sports should result in people being deprived of a useful medication.

LOL, what next?

EPO is useful too, it helps make red blood cells and increase the amount of oxygen carried to muscles.

Cocaine is useful, it's a stimulant that speeds up the workings of the brain.

 

[Bartelby]

It's a useful drug that should, indeed, be widely available and used for the intended purpose.

It is verly clear that this is not only doping but state sponsored doping.

The very fact that clostebol is available over the counter with no doctor ordered prescription is proof of that. Basically the Italian cycling lobby led to it being legal so that the athletes would individually buy it (and circumvent having to go thru a distributor).

The active ingredient was invented by East Germans to scam the Olympics and other events. Not to apply it in the country's first aid system. Nowadays no other country sells this product except Italy (and at times Brazil and that too is a doping program as far as I'm concerned — Brazilians copying Italians who copied East Germans.

 

[Bartelby]

Cocaine is something that I'm not against being illegal. It is far less damaging than alcohol.

LOL, what next?

EPO is useful too, it helps make red blood cells and increase the amount of oxygen carried to muscles.

Cocaine is useful, it's a stimulant that speeds up the workings of the brain.

 

[mattennis]

Now Battaglino knows what he should have done to get a "no fault, no negligence" verdict.

 

[ChaelAZ]

The vast majority of Italians use Trofodermin as intended to treat cuts and abrasions.
It is perfectly safe. Available OTC. There is absolutely no public safety factor here so scare campaigns are irrelevant.
The only question is whether the OTC access to the public should be restricted should because a very small minority are abusing it to gain athletic advantage.
Obviously not.

If Clostebol is useful then I don't see that misuse in sports should result in people being deprived of a useful medication.

I mean, both can be true here. Athletes can easily apply for a TUE for more benign, and even banned substances for approved medical needs. So if they live. in a country where Closetbol is present in everyday used products, they should know that and be applying for it when there is even a slight chance of exposure. That said, again looking at the trace amounts found WADA can also know this and with proper documentation know this was a no0fault infraction.

 

[Sandokan]

LOL, what next?

EPO is useful too, it helps make red blood cells and increase the amount of oxygen carried to muscles.

Cocaine is useful, it's a stimulant that speeds up the workings of the brain.

EPO is used to treat anemia caused by chronic kidney disease. Should people suffering from it be deprived of treatment because that product can be abused by athletes to increase their performance.
As for cocaine. all drugs should be legalized and highly taxed, eliminating criminality and violence and transforming a black hole that consumes billions of dollars into a source of revenue

 

[Rovesciarete]

EPO is used to treat anemia caused by chronic kidney disease. Should people suffering from it be deprived of treatment because that product can be abused by athletes to increase their performance.

Mostly agree.

As for cocaine. all drugs should be legalized and highly taxed, eliminating criminality and violence and transforming a black hole that consumes billions of dollars into a source of revenue

Idem, although not all.

 

[newman]

There has been hardly any interest of the fate of Battaglino or Bortolotti after they tested positive but a media storm after it happened to the Nr.1 player of the tour. Journalists, players and posters alike have been confounded by the news and few have read one report and hardly any I guess all three before commenting. ITIA has made them all available on their website and after a close study is quite easy to understand why two could got the 'no fault, no negligence' outcome:

ITIA report 'Stefano Battaglino': Stefano argued that the tournament physio transmitted clostebol into his body with his treatment but could no produce a plausible source as the physio could not be contacted and was thus unavailable. As a result he was banned for four years. Short sections like names blackened.

ITIA report 'Marco Bortolotti': Marco argued that he got it through the use of a cream containing clostebol and could satisfactorily provide both source and transmission. The specifics are blackened due to privacy. His case when public only after it was ruled that Marco had 'no fault, no negligence'. He never stopped playing but it was his planned off-season anyway*, as he said in this interview.

ITIA report 'Jannik Sinner': Jannik argued that his physio treated a cut with a spray containing clostebol and transmitted it by massages into his skin damaged by dermatitis. He could quickly provide both source, bought by his athletic coach and the transmission through he wound of his physio. No specifics are blackened. His case went only public after he was cleared with 'no fault, no negligence'. He also didn't stop playing as he was able to quickly pinpoint a plausible reason.

A relevant study about clostebol's transmission mechanisms and decay!


*BTW his Visa got denied by the US as he played in Iran in 2015!

I was curious about the blood levels involved, to summarize one of the relevant findings in this study and contrast with Sinner's levels:

For reference, Sinner's detected dose measured 8 days apart, were each virtually identical - around 120pg/ml.

Study in Experiment 3 had a participant apply the steroid cream to their hands in a typical dose, waited 30 minutes, and had people several people shake this person's hand briefly. In THOSE people's blood tested about 5 hours later (handshake people), the detected amount was 100-500pg/ml. The handshake people's dose became undetectable around 2 days after exposure.

In Experiment 1 - they applied 1g of cream 3x times (5mg of clostebol) directly in a massage, the detectable amount peaked at over 30,000pg/ml about 1-2 days and after 11 days was still at 800pg/ml.

The only way to maintain a small dose 8 days between, is continually get a teeny bit from a physio massaging you everyday like in Experiment 3. If he'd been doping prior to the tournament and then *stopped*, the 2nd test would've had zero while the first test would've had the trace amounts. I think it's pretty clear that a certain subset of people have already made up their mind, but when you dig into the data, Sinner's defense does seem plausible.

 

[uscwang]

The vast majority of Italians use Trofodermin as intended to treat cuts and abrasions.
It is perfectly safe. Available OTC. There is absolutely no public safety factor here so scare campaigns are irrelevant.
The only question is whether the OTC access to the public should be restricted should because a very small minority are abusing it to gain athletic advantage.
Obviously not.

The question is are there clean alternatives in Italy for Italian athletes/trainers/physios to use or is clostebol their only choice and this nonsense have to keep going?

 

[uscwang]

There has been hardly any interest of the fate of Battaglino or Bortolotti after they tested positive but a media storm after it happened to the Nr.1 player of the tour. Journalists, players and posters alike have been confounded by the news and few have read one report and hardly any I guess all three before commenting. ITIA has made them all available on their website and after a close study is quite easy to understand why two could got the 'no fault, no negligence' outcome:

ITIA report 'Stefano Battaglino': Stefano argued that the tournament physio transmitted clostebol into his body with his treatment but could no produce a plausible source as the physio could not be contacted and was thus unavailable. As a result he was banned for four years. Short sections like names blackened.

ITIA report 'Marco Bortolotti': Marco argued that he got it through the use of a cream containing clostebol and could satisfactorily provide both source and transmission. The specifics are blackened due to privacy. His case when public only after it was ruled that Marco had 'no fault, no negligence'. He never stopped playing but it was his planned off-season anyway*, as he said in this interview.

ITIA report 'Jannik Sinner': Jannik argued that his physio treated a cut with a spray containing clostebol and transmitted it by massages into his skin damaged by dermatitis. He could quickly provide both source, bought by his athletic coach and the transmission through he wound of his physio. No specifics are blackened. His case went only public after he was cleared with 'no fault, no negligence'. He also didn't stop playing as he was able to quickly pinpoint a plausible reason.

A relevant study about clostebol's transmission mechanisms and decay!


*BTW his Visa got denied by the US as he played in Iran in 2015!

It is comical when all three are put together.

 

[Sandokan]

Idem, although not all.

We all have our own preferences, don't we?

 

[Sudacafan]

Cocaine is something that I'm not against being illegal. It is far less damaging than alcohol.

Which of Maradona addictions you think majorly contributed to kill him?

 

[Sudacafan]

It is comical when all three are put together.

Could be because Sinner's last name in not Italian?

 

[Sudacafan]

Cocaine is useful, it's a stimulant that speeds up the workings of the brain.

That's the reason why governments ban its use: it enhances the intelligence of the voters.

 

[Sandokan]

The question is are there clean alternatives in Italy for Italian athletes/trainers/physios to use or is clostebol their only choice and this nonsense have to keep going?

The main problem, in my view, is that athletes, especially those at the mid to low levels, semi-pro, who are the majority of those who tested positive, do not live among themselves, with their trainers and physios who are mostly aware of doping risks. They live with their families, maybe with a girlfriend/wife, maybe with children, maybe still with mom and dad and maybe even some old grandparent, whoever they might be, they are just regular folks who likely know next to nothing about doping and have Trofodermin in their medicine cabinet, as a tried and tested remedy for little cuts. Even if they see the doping sign, they would not care because they are not athletes. They would have to know that by using that product they endanger the athlete in their family because of the high transmissibility through skin contact. This is definitely something that is not common knowledge as it is becoming only recently a problem due to the extremely high levels of sensitivity reached by anti-doping tests.
Can we stop for a moment to think how sensitive a test is if by analyzing your urine it detects that another person has used a clostebol-based creme? I think this should induce some thinking of how many false positives in terms of doping suspects such a test is generating. When one does not know anymore whether what is being detected in the urine "belongs" to the person from whom the urine was collected, there is a serious issue.

It is comical when all three are put together.

Actually it makes a lot of sense: two of them were able to provide a reconstruction that was compatible with the test data and satisfied the experts and one didn't. So the first two had their provisional suspensions lifted, they were able to play as the investigation proceeded and their stories became public only at the end of the investigation, at the same time of the verdict who was an acquittal for both of them. The third player's inability to provide a verifiable reconstruction that was compatible with the test data and satisfied the experts resulted in the provisional suspension being enforced and in a final verdict of 4-year suspension. The procedure is very clear. More than comedy I see tragedy because I do not believe the third one deserved a harsh punishment, but since his account was not fully verifiable, under the existing rules there is no possible leeway in the determining punishment

 

[Sandokan]

Could be because Sinner's last name in not Italian?

Kinda like Agassi's and Sampras' last names being not USian?

 

[NeutralFan]

Cocaine is something that I'm not against being illegal. It is far less damaging than alcohol.

Any research paper to support your claim?

 

[Rovesciarete]

The procedure is very clear. More than comedy I see tragedy because I do not believe the third one deserved a harsh punishment, but since his account was not fully verifiable, under the existing rules there is no possible leeway in the determining punishment

Thanks for also pointing out the tragedy of the third with a tournament physio ghosting him - no uproar about that by the great defenders of 'equal justice'....

 

[Bartelby]

I'm relying on a friend who researched the matter. If you take either substance and are addicted to neither, then there is less harm in cocaine. To me, that seems plausible.

Any research paper to support your claim?

 

[NeutralFan]

I'm relying on a friend who researched the matter. If you take either substance and are addicted to neither, then there is less harm in cocaine. To me, that seems plausible.

I have read that Alcohol is 1000 times more harmful than Marijuana but didnt read about Coke

 

[Rovesciarete]

Very happy for Bortolotti but I wonder how WADA can justify its appeal against Sinner after not doing so in the in his case. Most likely because the source of contamination was an employee. Still this highly unusual appeal creates the impression of an unequal treatment of the Nr.1 player due to his ranking and status:

The Player has asserted that he did not intend to cheat and did not knowingly ingest clostebol. (blackened out) He asserts that he was involuntarily contaminated with clostebol


In support of his explanation, the Player provided (among other things): (blackened out)


As part of its investigation into the Player's explanation for the clostebol metabolite detected in his sample, the ITIA has sought advice from the Laboratory as to the scientific plausibility of the Player's explanation. The Laboratory performed calculations based on the Player's exposure to the clostebol and the concentration detected in his sample and confirmed (based on scientific literature) that the Player's explanation was credible.

Sadly this impression in conjunction with the poor handling of the well known cases of the Chinese swimmers and Halep will likely further damage its reputation

 

[thrust]

What do you mean it was being used for no documentable benefit? It was primarily being used to treat heart conditions.

According to the drugmaker’s website, meldonium is primarily used to treat heart-related conditions — like angina pectoris and heart failure — that block blood and oxygen to the heart muscle. The drugmaker also says meldonium can also improve “physical capacity and mental function” in healthy people.

Which is why Sharapova used it, as I doubt, she had any heart problems.

 

[Gazelle]

Am I right or do all three Italians have the same substance and same excuse?

 

[Rovesciarete]

Am I right or do all three Italians have the same substance and same excuse?

Reading would help to understand the reasoning...

 

[vokazu]

Which is why Sharapova used it, as I doubt, she had any heart problems.

If I remember it correctly she said she took meldonium as a medical treatment for pre-diabetes. Other news said she has magnesium deficiency and her family has a history of heart issues and diabetes.

 

[Sandokan]

Am I right or do all three Italians have the same substance and same excuse?

No. Marco Bortolotti got it through his girlfriend, which was redacted from the ITIA docs for reasons of privacy and I have learnt it from someone in the know.
In my view the explanation of the Italian case is very simple: Trofodermin, a medication to treat cuts and scrapes which contains a combination of clostebol acetate and neomycin, has been a very popular product in Italy, used in many households for many years, as a cream and a spray. Clostebol has been discovered to be transmitted by skin contact and its metabolites are detectable in the urine for up to a month. Since athletes happen to live with other people, i.e., partners, children, mom and dad, grandparents, who might have used the cream, the sources for a contamination of a few pL are not that hard to divine. As I said, this is a product somewhat ingrained in the Italian mind as the go to remedy to cure little cuts and scrapes. It has a sign on the box that it is considered a doping agent, but those who use it are not athletes, and the sign does not say it transmits by skin contact.

That is the simple story behind the "explosion of clostebol cases" in Italian sports that has garnered so much attention, mostly involving athletes ranked in not particularly high positions, with trace amounts found and little perspective of anything to gain by doping (especially with a product from the '60s). Just to stay with tennis, Battaglino was ranked around 300 and Bortolotti 700.
Since this product has been sold in Italy forever, why all of a sudden all these cases are exploding now? The obvious answer is because the antidoping tests are becoming more and more sensitive and a set of old rules does not take that evolution into account by punishing anything above zero.

My question is: don't we think we entered nonsensical territory, when we realize that the tests being used can detect in a person's urine if another person has used an OTC cream with clostebol?

 

[RSJfan]

.

 

[Sandokan]

Very happy for Bortolotti but I wonder how WADA can justify its appeal against Sinner after not doing so in the in his case. Most likely because the source of contamination was an employee. Still this highly unusual appeal creates the impression of an unequal treatment of the Nr.1 player due to his ranking and status:




Sadly this impression in conjunction with the poor handling of the well known cases of the Chinese swimmers and Halep will likely further damage its reputation

In my view, this decision was terrible. WADA is not contesting Sinner's explanation. It's not claiming that this was an attempt of doping. It's basically saying that it does not believe that Sinner can be considered not responsible for errors made by his team members. In other words, WADA wants to disqualify for 1 or 2 years, ruining his reputation and career, a 23 years old kid that it recognizes has not done anything wrong just because he had surrounded himself with a team that he did not double-guessed any second. And based on a set of old rules that punish even the ridiculously low amount of substance that gets found thanks to the current tests, able to detect if a third person, other than the urine provider, has used a forbidden substance.
If this sounds disgustingly legalese that does not care for justice, let's remember what CAS is. CAS is the tribunal who took away the bronze medal from Jordan Chiles, first by ruling without evidence that the US request for review had arrived a few seconds too late, despite fully knowing that the judges had made an error, and afterwards, when evidence was provided that the request was made in the allowed time, it refused to review the matter fully knowing that its verdict was wrong, by calling its decisions final.

In other words, WADA appealed a decision made by an independent tribunal of experts on the basis of an investigation conducted by ITIA (the agency WADA has delegated to manage doping in tennis) following all the rules set up by WADA. While recognizing that the player is innocent, it addressed its request for heavy punishment, based on some formal respect of the rules, to a tribunal that has showed that formal respect of the rules is what it abides by, not any sense of justice.
It is very hard to see any of this as anything else than an attempt of WADA to regain some credibility by presenting itself as inflexible enforcer of the rules after the Chinese swimmers debacle. It just decided to do it by throwing ITIA under the bus and showing a complete disregard for the integrity of the sport of tennis, not even trying to hide its heavy hand in affecting the results by announcing its decision while Sinner was playing. I cannot think of another sport which would have accepted so passively such a heavy intrusion that alters the level playing field. Tennis leadership is weak.

 

[RSJfan]

Am I right or do all three Italians have the same substance and same excuse?

Clostebol, Battaglino, Bortolotti and Sinner. I count four Italians and zero prohibited substances.

 

[RSJfan]

…I cannot think of another sport who would have accepted so passively such a heavy intrusion to alter the level playing field. Tennis leadership is weak.

While WADA’s ostensible purpose of “harmonizing anti-doping policies” sounds like a nice idea WADA was birthed from the corrupt IOC and it has been a disaster. The US has already moved to assert independent authority to investigate these WADA criminals by passing the Rodchenkov Act. The tennis powers that be should withdraw from the WADA code. The NBA, NFL and MLB, among other sports leagues, do just fine without WADA interference.

 

[Bartelby]

The independent tribunal made an error in law. If dope is in your system then you have unintentionally doped, so a ban from one to two years is the norm.

In my view, this decision was terrible. WADA is not contesting Sinner's explanation. It's not claiming that this was an attempt of doping. It's basically saying that it does not believe that Sinner can be considered not responsible for errors made by his team members. In other words, WADA wants to disqualify for 1 or 2 years, ruining his reputation and career, a 23 years old kid that it recognizes has not done anything wrong just because he had surrounded himself with a team that he did not double-guessed any second. And based on a set of old rules that punish even the ridiculously low amount of substance that gets found thanks to the current tests, able to detect if a third person, other than the urine provider, has used a forbidden substance.
If this sounds disgustingly legalese that does not care for justice, let's remember what CAS is. CAS is the tribunal who took away the bronze medal from Jordan Chiles, first by ruling without evidence that the US request for review had arrived a few seconds too late, despite fully knowing that the judges had made an error, and afterwards, when evidence was provided that the request was made in the allowed time, it refused to review the matter fully knowing that its verdict was wrong, by calling its decisions final.

In other words, WADA appealed a decision made by an independent tribunal of experts on the basis of an investigation conducted by ITIA (the agency WADA has delegated to manage doping in tennis) following all the rules set up by WADA. While recognizing that the player is innocent, it addressed its request for heavy punishment, based on some formal respect of the rules, to a tribunal that has showed that formal respect of the rules is what it abides by, not any sense of justice.
It is very hard to see any of this as anything else than an attempt of WADA to regain some credibility by presenting itself as inflexible enforcer of the rules after the Chinese swimmers debacle. It just decided to do it by throwing ITIA under the bus and showing a complete disregard for the integrity of the sport of tennis, not even trying to hide its heavy hand in affecting the results by announcing its decision while Sinner was playing. I cannot think of another sport who would have accepted so passively such a heavy intrusion that alters the level playing field. Tennis leadership is weak.

 

[Sandokan]

While WADA’s ostensible purpose of “harmonizing anti-doping policies” sounds like a nice idea WADA was birthed from the corrupt IOC and it has been a disaster. The US has already moved to assert independent authority to investigate these WADA criminals by passing the Rodchenkov Act. The tennis powers that be should withdraw from the WADA code. The NBA, NFL and MLB, among other sports leagues, do just fine without WADA interference.

I fully agree, I just think tennis is weak because there are too many organizations and not a clear leader that could take this kind of decisions. I definitely see a difference between suspending a player for years or for a couple of games as in the NFL. I am not sure I fully agree with the NFL suspension policy, but I respect their decision to play by their own rules and be coherent without being threatened by an external entity that has the right of appeal whenever it feels like, and shows no qualms in disrupting the competition.
And frankly, I do not even feel I have the right to judge some need to dope when you play a game in which 300/400 lbs monsters are constantly trying to roll over you and detach your head from the rest of the body

 

[Sandokan]

The independent tribunal made an error in law. If dope is in your system then you have unintentionally doped, so a ban from one to two years is the norm.

It is very strange that such an error in law gets discovered only in this case as there have been many others in which unintentional led to acquittal. The only difference is that in this case there was no provisional suspension. And by the way, if that were the case, why investigate at all? Just automatic suspension as soon as the test results are known.
Can you please point out the section of the rules that states that?

 

[Rovesciarete]

In my view, this decision was terrible. WADA is not contesting Sinner's explanation. It's not claiming that this was an attempt of doping. It's basically saying that it does not believe that Sinner can be considered not responsible for errors made by his team members. In other words, WADA wants to disqualify for 1 or 2 years, ruining his reputation and career, a 23 years old kid that it recognizes has not done anything wrong just because he had surrounded himself with a team that he did not double-guessed any second. And based on a set of old rules that punish even the ridiculously low amount of substance that gets found thanks to the current tests, able to detect if a third person, other than the urine provider, has used a forbidden substance.
If this sounds disgustingly legalese that does not care for justice, let's remember what CAS is. CAS is the tribunal who took away the bronze medal from Jordan Chiles, first by ruling without evidence that the US request for review had arrived a few seconds too late, despite fully knowing that the judges had made an error, and afterwards, when evidence was provided that the request was made in the allowed time, it refused to review the matter fully knowing that its verdict was wrong, by calling its decisions final.

In other words, WADA appealed a decision made by an independent tribunal of experts on the basis of an investigation conducted by ITIA (the agency WADA has delegated to manage doping in tennis) following all the rules set up by WADA. While recognizing that the player is innocent, it addressed its request for heavy punishment, based on some formal respect of the rules, to a tribunal that has showed that formal respect of the rules is what it abides by, not any sense of justice.
It is very hard to see any of this as anything else than an attempt of WADA to regain some credibility by presenting itself as inflexible enforcer of the rules after the Chinese swimmers debacle. It just decided to do it by throwing ITIA under the bus and showing a complete disregard for the integrity of the sport of tennis, not even trying to hide its heavy hand in affecting the results by announcing its decision while Sinner was playing. I cannot think of another sport who would have accepted so passively such a heavy intrusion that alters the level playing field. Tennis leadership is weak.

Reflects most of my thoughts and it reminds me of the old Latin saying: Summum ius summa iniuria est - “The greatest right is the greatest injury.”

A maxim meaning that granting a party the maximum extent of its rights may do an extreme injustice to the party against whom the right is asserted. ... ...

 

[Bartelby]

So what cases are you referring to where unintentional doping led to acquittal?

The recent decisions of the ITIA may have become more lenient than I suggested in post #45.

But if this is so then it needs to be tested in CAS as it seems a departure from what used to be the case.

It is very strange that such an error in law gets discovered only in this case as there have been many others in which unintentional led to acquittal. The only difference is that in this case there was no provisional suspension. And by the way, if that were the case, why investigate at all? Just automatic suspension as soon as the test results are known.

 

[RSJfan]

…I do not even feel I have the right to judge some need to dope when you play a game in which 300/400 lbs monsters are constantly trying to roll over you and detach your head from the rest of the body

Let he who takes the first hit to the head cast the first stone.