A telling Zverev stat

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
Still yet to beat a top 50 player over best of five. Obviously bound to happen soon enough, but nevertheless. Doesn't quite match up with his ranking (likely top 5 after the Open) and BO3 success.

What's the reason? Just bad luck and coincidence? tightens up on the biggest stage? not confident in his ability to endure long matches? #MajoringInTheMinors?
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Eh, last year his losses to Murray, Thiem and Berdych were probably expected. Only the Evans loss at the USO was a poor result. He played well against both Nadal and Raonic this year at the AO and Wimbledon respectively. The Verdasco and now this loss were poor. I think he's just had quite the luck on his side that he hasn't faced a top 50 opponent before running into these players beforehand. I think it's mostly coincidence and he's only twenty anyway. Deep slam runs are going to happen sooner rather than later. Maybe he schedules differently in the future as well, who knows...

I don't think it means much tbh...
 
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Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
Eh, last year his losses to Murray, Thiem and Berdych were probably expected. Only the Evans loss at the USO was a poor result. He played well against both Nadal and Raonic this year at the AO and Wimbledon respectively. The Verdasco and now this loss were poor. I think he's just had quite the luck on his side that he hasn't faced a top 50 opponent before running into these players beforehand. I think it's mostly coincidence and he's only twenty anyway. Deep slam runs are going to happen sooner rather than later. Maybe he schedules differently in the future as well, who knows...
Fair point on the context.

All said, I do think that starting with Evans at the last USO, only his AO run against Nadal was 'out of reach'. Even there I think he scrambled past Haase the round before. Raonic was in terrible form this year and Z's well inside the top 10 now, the Verdasco loss was meek, and now against his much doubted peer Coric.

But yeah, I agree bad luck is a big part of it.
 

junior74

G.O.A.T.
Wasn't aware, @Sysyphus , but that's a heartbraker. Also; coming from M1000s win only to lose to Coric of all people...

Very disappointing to have no scalps at this stage. Looks more like mental fatigue than physical to me. He enters a whine mode from time to time.
 

The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
I mean at the start of Wimbledon 2001, Fed had only two wins over top 50 opponents at majors. Was seeded #15 going into the tournament, we all know what he did. I think you could find more examples of fine players like this.

Cause for concern if it keeps happening of course, but I don't expect it to, the streak will probably end at the AO next year.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Obviously he'll eventually beat a top 50 player in a slam, and I still think he's a very good player, but honestly the more I watch him the more I think he just doesn't have that one big weapon, like say a Tiafoe or Shapovalov type FH or a Kyrgios level serve for example. Only his BH is truly great, but if the FH is average and the serve is only good and not great, or special then he'll probably have a bigger overall problem on his hands.

I don't want to spell doom for Zverev quite yet so I hope my post is coming across in the right way. He is still young after all. All I'm really saying is that if he keeps trying to outgrind other players, with no big weapon(s) he'll always be susceptible to an upset. That's all I'll say for now.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
Zed has great serve and punishing shots on both wings.

What exactly was JCF's plan for Zverev yesterday ? Seemed more lack of strategy than anything . Grinding for entire sets 2 and 3 based on the belief that he was not going to lose . When Coric was not going away , Zed started playing his game but he came a cropper in the 2 TB.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
Who do you think out of Safina, Jankovic and Wozniacki was the better #1?
Good question. Out of the three, Safina. She was overall more consistent across all surfaces, more slam finals, no less than a semi at all four I think. So for me, out of three, she performed better overall in the bigger matches.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Still yet to beat a top 50 player over best of five. Obviously bound to happen soon enough, but nevertheless. Doesn't quite match up with his ranking (likely top 5 after the Open) and BO3 success.

What's the reason? Just bad luck and coincidence? tightens up on the biggest stage? not confident in his ability to endure long matches? #MajoringInTheMinors?
To expand a bit on my previous post, I'd say right now and at this particular tournament he looked like he tightened up knowing the draw was open for him. But I'd amend the last question a bit to read "too confident in his ability to endure long matches." Now let me be clear, it's great that he's fit and he seems very confident, but out grinding Coric over BO5 is not the way to go if you want to win a slam next Sunday. It will just be a practice in wasting energy and likely running out of gas over the 2 weeks. Unfortunately his game is not honed to be aggressive right now, but it needs to be if he wants to win a slam so he doesn't expend his energy on 50 shot rallies with Coric and the like. I believe he can do it. I'm just giving my 2 cents on what his problems might be.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Good question. Out of the three, Safina. She was overall more consistent across all surfaces, more slam finals, no less than a semi at all four I think. So for me, out of three, she performed better overall in the bigger matches.
Ironic though, considering you could also make a case for Safina being the biggest headcase/choker of the three.
 

Newcomer

Hall of Fame
Good question. Out of the three, Safina. She was overall more consistent across all surfaces, more slam finals, no less than a semi at all four I think. So for me, out of three, she performed better overall in the bigger matches.
But also was the most arrogant one. I'm happy she never won a slam. Sad I can't say the same about Azarenka.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
Ironic though, considering you could also make a case for Safina being the biggest headcase/choker of the three.
True. Which is why we are looking at a group of slamless number ones.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
But also was the most arrogant one. I'm happy she never won a slam. Sad I can't say the same about Azarenka.
I am not exactly a fan of her game or personality, just feel she was the 'better' number one of the three mentioned.
 

falstaff78

Hall of Fame
Still yet to beat a top 50 player over best of five. Obviously bound to happen soon enough, but nevertheless. Doesn't quite match up with his ranking (likely top 5 after the Open) and BO3 success.

What's the reason? Just bad luck and coincidence? tightens up on the biggest stage? not confident in his ability to endure long matches? #MajoringInTheMinors?
stunning stat, thanks!

31-10 in Bo3, including 20-3 after Monte Carlo 2017
0-3 in Bo5
 

TheAverageFedererFan

Professional
Yes it is kind of weird. I mean lets be honest here. Remember in the third round of the Aussie he lost to Nadal after being up 2 sets to 1? Had he won that, he probably would have got past Monfils. I'm not sure if he would have beat Raonic, maybe but I don't think he would have beat Dimitrov. So that was a good chance for him to reach a slam Quarter. Also he lost in the first round of the French Open. Considering how he won Rome he should have got to at least the Quarters. In Wimbledon 4th Round he was up 2 sets to 1 against Raonic. Had he pulled that out, he would have got a slam Quarterfinal losing to Federer.
 

TheAverageFedererFan

Professional
But this US Open was a huge chance for Zverev to reach his first ever Grand Slam Quarter, Semi or even Final! Considering how the draw was fairly weak for him. And winning Washington and Montreal I expected more from him at the US Open. Oh well. Maybe next year.
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
Still yet to beat a top 50 player over best of five. Obviously bound to happen soon enough, but nevertheless. Doesn't quite match up with his ranking (likely top 5 after the Open) and BO3 success.

What's the reason? Just bad luck and coincidence? tightens up on the biggest stage? not confident in his ability to endure long matches? #MajoringInTheMinors?
I think it's mental endurance
lack of consistency
being overrated
a plan B. His plan A is to grind, which he shouldn't even be doing, and then when his backhand doesn't do enough damage, he doesn't know what to do anymore


He has not beaten any top player who was actually playing well. His game is rather easy to figure out, he's arrogant and I think that when he's playing a guy who he thinks he should be beating and it's not going easy he starts doubting himself.

He has no go-to weapons. I can keep going on.

Still, we're not talking about beating top 10 players here. Not beaten a top 50 dude. That's ****ing pathetic.

Milos. I complained about you getting to YE#3. But at least you did well at the slams to get there. At least you beat some players at the big tournaments to get there. Milos, I may never like you, but you get all the respect I don't have for Zverev.

Hugs and kisses, Red Rick


Oh, and meanwhile, big lil bro Mischa has a #1 win at a slam. Lolz
 
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Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
I think it's mental endurance
lack of consistency
being overrated
a plan B. His plan A is to grind, which he shouldn't even be doing, and then when his backhand doesn't do enough damage, he doesn't know what to do anymore


He has not beaten any top player who was actually playing well. His game is rather easy to figure out, he's arrogant and I think that when he's playing a guy who he thinks he should be beating and it's not going easy he starts doubting himself.

He has no go-to weapons. I can keep going on.

Still, we're not talking about beating top 10 players here. Not beaten a top 50 dude. That's ****ing pathetic.

Milos. I complained about you getting to YE#3. But at least you did well at the slams to get there. At least you beat some players at the big tournaments to get there. Milos, I may never like you, but you get all the respect I don't have for Zverev.

Hugs and kisses, Red Rick


Oh, and meanwhile, big lil bro Mischa has a #1 win at a slam. Lolz
Brutal poast, LOL!

Didn't you use to be a Z fan?
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
Another point to make I think is that we talk a lot on TTW about mental muggery/weakness/midgets etc. We never distinguish between the different kinds. Zverev is a very good player when he's playing a big opponent in a Bo3, but he's an absolute mental midget when things are not going his way against an average opponent.
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
Brutal poast, LOL!

Didn't you use to be a Z fan?
Kinda. It was fun starting his thread, I was excited about him as a young player, but other things about him rub me the wrong way. The kit he was wearing was beyond ridiculous, and I'm really starting to believe he thinks very highly of himself.

I think one can be a fan of certain parts of players and hate the other things about the same player. I can praise players I don't like, hype players I loathe, flame players I love. I can rant about Murray's forehand deficiency until the end of days but when he's wobbling over court angrily, yelling at himself and clearly struggling with himself and the very purpose of his existence, how can I not love him.

I mean I love Roddick. I love his humour, I love the way he fights and talks and is self-depreciating and all. Doesn't mean I have to love his high bh volleys in 2nd set tiebreaks.
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
Kinda. It was fun starting his thread, I was excited about him as a young player, but other things about him rub me the wrong way. The kit he was wearing was beyond ridiculous, and I'm really starting to believe he thinks very highly of himself.

I think one can be a fan of certain parts of players and hate the other things about the same player. I can praise players I don't like, hype players I loathe, flame players I love. I can rant about Murray's forehand deficiency until the end of days but when he's wobbling over court angrily, yelling at himself and clearly struggling with himself and the very purpose of his existence, how can I not love him.

I mean I love Roddick. I love his humour, I love the way he fights and talks and is self-depreciating and all. Doesn't mean I have to love his high bh volleys in 2nd set tiebreaks.
Truer words were seldom spoken
 

Jaitock1991

Hall of Fame
Almost feels like it's become some kind of mental barrier to him. He's beaten the best on several occastions in BO3, and has two Masters 1000 titles to his name so he obviously has the game. He also took Rafa to 5 at AO this year, and should have arguably won that match. He'll get there I'm sure.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Almost feels like it's become some kind of mental barrier to him. He's beaten the best on several occastions in BO3, and has two Masters 1000 titles to his name so he obviously has the game. He also took Rafa to 5 at AO this year, and should have arguably won that match. He'll get there I'm sure.
This new generation only gets excited and motivated for matches when they play guys they used to pick in Topspin 3.
 

wangs78

Hall of Fame
I think Zverev's difficulty is mental. The guy is clearly cocky and his recent comments about his half of the draw indicate that he believes he should beat any player outside the Big 4. This attitude makes it very difficult for him to adjust his game when he falls behind in a match, especially if he wins the first set as he did against Raonic at Wimby and against Coric yesterday. He'll just keep playing his predictable, albeit very solid, game and get beaten.
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
Very good bump. Totally lost his head. Again. He radiates so much entitlement that the Ozzy's stop worrying about the gaping hole in the ozon layer.
 

jorjipy

New User
Still yet to beat a top 50 player over best of five. Obviously bound to happen soon enough, but nevertheless. Doesn't quite match up with his ranking (likely top 5 after the Open) and BO3 success.

What's the reason? Just bad luck and coincidence? tightens up on the biggest stage? not confident in his ability to endure long matches? #MajoringInTheMinors?

Well, he did beat Kyrgios in the Davis Cup earlier this year.....top 50 player, best of 5 sets....does that count?
 

jorjipy

New User
Still yet to beat a top 50 player over best of five. Obviously bound to happen soon enough, but nevertheless. Doesn't quite match up with his ranking (likely top 5 after the Open) and BO3 success.

What's the reason? Just bad luck and coincidence? tightens up on the biggest stage? not confident in his ability to endure long matches? #MajoringInTheMinors?

Well, he did beat Kyrgios in the Davis Cup earlier this year.....top 50 player, best of 5 sets....does that count?
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
Young guys generally take a few years on the best of 5-fitness level to be a real threat in slams. The last prodigy we really had was Nadal.



Reason #612 why Nadal is #Epic.

Which comes with a giant asterisk, don't you think? I doubt Zverev has access to Tio Toni's magical vitamin elixir. Those were the wild west days with ZERO real enforcement, never to be seen again, so not really a fair comparison.
 

Sysyphus

Talk Tennis Guru
Well, he did beat Kyrgios in the Davis Cup earlier this year.....top 50 player, best of 5 sets....does that count?
That is correct. Since I made this thread, Sascha has indeed scored his first ever top 50 win in a B05. It was only fitting that it be against his NextGen rival, Nick the Tank Kyrgios.

I firmly believe that with the right draw – maybe Sugita or someone like that in the first round – Zverev can also burst this bubble at the slam level already at the upcoming Roland Garros. #ExpectGreatThings
 

Red Rick

Talk Tennis Guru
That is correct. Since I made this thread, Sascha has indeed scored his first ever top 50 win in a B05. It was only fitting that it be against his NextGen rival, Nick the Tank Kyrgios.

I firmly believe that with the right draw – maybe Sugita or someone like that in the first round – Zverev can also burst this bubble at the slam level already at the upcoming Roland Garros. #ExpectGreatThings
Should be the biggest bestest headline in sports.

Especially if it happens at like the 4th round of Wimbledon

World Cup SF on page 31
Tour de France on page 32

Front page:
The legend is ascending
Alexander Zverev beats top 50 player
at Grand Slam for the first time

 
Still yet to beat a top 50 player over best of five. Obviously bound to happen soon enough, but nevertheless. Doesn't quite match up with his ranking (likely top 5 after the Open) and BO3 success.

What's the reason? Just bad luck and coincidence? tightens up on the biggest stage? not confident in his ability to endure long matches? #MajoringInTheMinors?
How many actual chances has he had at slams? He’s usually crashed out in early rounds before he reaches those guys, right?
To his credit, he took Nadal to 5 at the 2017 AO. Who else did that besides Fed that year?

Oh wait, this guy did:

 

Thomas195

Semi-Pro
Young guys generally take a few years on the best of 5-fitness level to be a real threat in slams.
Yeah, a bad blood Sampras managed to win his first USO despite having to play BO5.

A 17 year-old Chang managed to win FO 1989 despite playing 2 BO5s against top-class players.

Hewitt, Roddick, Federer.... all managed to win BO5 at young age.
 

Thomas195

Semi-Pro
Young guys generally take a few years on the best of 5-fitness level to be a real threat in slams.
Yeah, a bad blood Sampras managed to win his first USO despite having to play BO5.

A 17 year-old Chang managed to win FO 1989 despite playing 2 BO5s against top-class players.

Hewitt, Roddick, Federer.... all managed to win BO5 at young age.
 
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