A Three Way Tie in the Slam Race

[Fedforever]

This is from Jon Wertheim earlier:

• I bet we’ve gotten this 10 times since the U.S. Open. “Can’t the Big Three agree on a number—say, 21—and end this race in a three-way tie.” It would unite and not divide fans, salving wounds likely to be born by two of the three camps. It would be a fitting conclusion to a three-man race that features three capable and charismatic candidates.

It seemed to raise some interesting questions:

Would it ease fan tensions or exacerbate them?

How are Rafa and Novak ever going to retire? Fed will presumably get too old but how will Rafa and Novak be able to retire and leave the field clear for the other?

 

[MichaelNadal]

I see nothing "fitting" about it. Nadal has flipped the table, now I wanna eat

 

[Deleted member 743561]

 

[UnderratedSlam]

I´d love it.

But ony if Rafa and Novak have a brief time as leaders. Just because of RF´s fans.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Just because of RF´s fans.

Why complain about Fed fans when there have been literally 500 threads since July with the theme "40-15?"

As if the other two fan bases are angelic? And bear in mind, the Djokovic and Nadal fan bases unite in hatred/envy of Fed, so it's just endless, tiresome invective and jealousy.

 

[scotus]

H2H.

 

[Tshooter]

This is from Jon Wertheim earlier:

• I bet we’ve gotten this 10 times since the U.S. Open. “Can’t the Big Three agree on a number—say, 21—and end this race in a three-way tie.” It would unite and not divide fans, salving wounds likely to be born by two of the three camps. It would be a fitting conclusion to a three-man race that features three capable and charismatic candidates.

Jon’s saccharine writing is fine on GOAT and other inconsequential matters but I don’t find it as welcome when he stutters to take a position one way or the other on anything significant and remotely controversial.

 

[Phoenix1983]

No sir.

 

[GabeT]

Sure, why not.

 

[maratha_warrior]

No way .

Fed was adjusted GOAT way back in 2007 by media and tennis establisent , and he is a slam leader since 2009 . Enjoyed a decade being called GOAT .

Nadal and Djoker deserves and needs to win more slams ,and be Slam Leader and GOAT , for half a decade atleast . True Justice

 

[helterskelter]

Nadal is most likely to win the race, so his fans will vote no.

Federer is least likely to win the race but less likely than Djokovic to finish third, so his fans will split on the basis of risk aversion and degree to which they view second as significantly preferable to third.

Djokovic is more likely to win the race than Federer, but also more likely to finish third, so his fans will also split based on risk aversion and acceptance of second.

 

[Fedforever]

Nadal and Djoker deserves and needs to win more slams ,and be Slam Leader and GOAT , for half a decade atleast

But how would this work? What if Nadal and Novak kept swopping the lead? Would we all be saying "Nadal is GOAT, Djoko is GOAT" as the lead changed?

 

[Phoenix1983]

Nadal is most likely to win the race, so his fans will vote no.

Federer is least likely to win the race but less likely than Djokovic to finish third, so his fans will split on the basis of risk aversion and degree to which they view second as significantly preferable to third.

Djokovic is more likely to win the race than Federer, but also more likely to finish third, so his fans will also split based on risk aversion and acceptance of second.

I'm a Federer fan and simply don't want this era to finish 'tied', whoever is at the top. So your theory is nonsense.

 

[helterskelter]

I'm a Federer fan and simply don't want this era to finish 'tied', whoever is at the top. So your theory is nonsense.

I did assume that people’s preferences were only about their favorite and of course that isn’t true, so my “theory” is certainly a simplification, but nonsense is too strong. Probably you said it partly because you didn’t like me noting that Federer is unlikely to win the race outright. But we all know that that is now true.

 

[Phoenix1983]

I did assume that people’s preferences were only about their favorite and of course that isn’t true, so my “theory” is certainly a simplification, but nonsense is too strong. Probably you said it partly because you didn’t like me noting that Federer is unlikely to win the race outright. But we all know that that is now true.

Incorrect again.

 

[maratha_warrior]

But how would this work? What if Nadal and Novak kept swopping the lead? Would we all be saying "Nadal is GOAT, Djoko is GOAT" as the lead changed?

yeah . Once Djokodal cross 20 ,they can keep changing GOAT throne year after year until one of them wins it finally. Last man standing wins the race here .

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

No way, madlad needs his titles, like, RIGHT NAO.

 

[Fedforever]

yeah . Once Djokodal cross 20 ,they can keep changing GOAT throne year after year until one of them wins it finally. Last man standing wins the race here .

For the sake of argument if one won 26 and the other 25 would that not make a nonsense of GOATness? Declaring one was indisputably "better" based on such a small difference?

 

[helterskelter]

Incorrect again.

I was writing on my phone before so I didn't explain myself fully, so here I clarify:

The "assumption" in my "theory" (really just a "claim") was akin to that which (neoclassical) economists often make, which for our purposes we can call "rational fan-interest." In other words, I assumed that fans' only desire is that their favorite player does as well as they can possibly do. If that assumption held, then fans' preferences for the Slam race would be based only on which options maximize the status of their favorite player. I think that if that assumption were correct, then my "theory"/claim would indeed be correct. Of course, the assumption doesn't hold, as fans have - as you stated - preferences that are what we might call "non-rational" (note: non-rational does not mean "irrational"). That is, they have preferences that are not about their rational fan-interest, and they don't just want the best outcome for their player. For example, you claim that you don't want a tie, and this is a preference that is not always going to work out in the interests of your favorite, Federer. A logical corollary of not wanting a tie is that you prefer the Slam race to end up Nadal 21, Federer 20, Djokovic 17 than for it to end up Nadal 20, Federer 20, Djokovic 18. From the perspective of rational fan-interest, this is a surprising preference. Or, put better, it shows that fans' preferences are not in fact motivated by rational fan-interest, and hence that you are right that my "theory"/claim is a simplification.

 

[Tiki-Taka]

That would be quite something. Wouldn't mind that happening if it's a 21 three way tie so all of them win at least one more time. But that is a big ask. They are getting quite old.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Fed fans looking to negotiate after years of entitlement. Sorry, we won't be negotiating Rafa and Djoker will both overtake Fed.

 

[Fedforever]

Fed fans looking to negotiate after years of entitlement. Sorry, we won't be negotiating Rafa and Djoker will both overtake Fed.

This sounds like you are unworried which out of them ends up on top.

 

[ForehandRF]

I´d love it.

But ony if Rafa and Novak have a brief time as leaders. Just because of RF´s fans.

You criticise only RF fans it seems, but you ignore the bitter and salty ones from the rival fanbases.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

..

 

[RaulRamirez]

If their careers culminate in a three-way tie, it would somehow be fitting, and acceptable. But, I wouldn't make a deal with a devil/angel to bring this about. Let's see how it plays out. Tennis-wise, I want compelling matches, no career-ending injuries, respectful rivalries, and something resembling informed, civil discussions. If my favorite(s) don't finish at the top of the slam mountain, that's okay.

 

[Sudacafan]

Why complain about Fed fans when there have been literally 500 threads since July with the theme "40-15?"

As if the other two fan bases are angelic? And bear in mind, the Djokovic and Nadal fan bases unite in hatred/envy of Fed, so it's just endless, tiresome invective and jealousy.

When Fed retires, Rafa and Nole fan bases will start to hate each other.

 

[ForehandRF]

No way .

Fed was adjusted GOAT way back in 2007 by media and tennis establisent , and he is a slam leader since 2009 . Enjoyed a decade being called GOAT .

Nadal and Djoker deserves and needs to win more slams ,and be Slam Leader and GOAT , for half a decade atleast . True Justice

If one of them breaks Fed's slam record he will hold the slam record maybe for decades, not just one.

 

[maratha_warrior]

For the sake of argument if one won 26 and the other 25 would that not make a nonsense of GOATness? Declaring one was indisputably "better" based on such a small difference?

I was joking a bit .
but tbh I feel a player needs to win 2 slams more than the 2nd best to be adjusted GOAT .

 

[maratha_warrior]

If one of them breaks Fed's slam record he will hold the slam record maybe for decades, not just one.

yeah . and I think both Nadal and Djokovic understands that . I don't think they will hang up rackets atleast 4 more years .

 

[UnderratedSlam]

You criticise only RF fans it seems, but you ignore the bitter and salty ones from the rival fanbases.

Clearly you must have missed some of the arguments I´ve had with a few Rafa and Novak fans...

Besides, just wait if/when Novak and/or Rafa overtake the record... I will be all over them if they start talking nonsense.

 

[ForumMember]

No Rafa fan is going to accept a Tie here. It is like offering a draw in Chess when the other guy is about checkmate you.

 

[Fedforever]

At the moment No wins for all fans.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

When Fed retires, Rafa and Nole fan bases will start to hate each other.

Imagine the salt if he outlasts them both.

 

[tennis_pro]

No Rafa fan is going to accept a Tie here. It is like offering a draw in Chess when the other guy is about checkmate you.

LMAO you wish.

 

[tennis_pro]

If one of them breaks Fed's slam record he will hold the slam record maybe for decades, not just one.

Honestly, there's no way to know.

Even if a new Boris Becker came to the scene now and the mug generations continued he'd be winning Slams left right and centre. I don't think the 20 Slam record will last long even if it's Federer's record still.

 

[BH40love]

Pete Sampras GOAT

 

[RelentlessAttack]

I don’t care who wins it but I prefer no tie. Don’t want current troll wars to continue forever

 

[The Blond Blur]

Jon Wertheim has to be either stupid or the most naive person to walk the face of the earth. A 3 way tie would only make things worse not "unite" people Right now Ol' Rog is the GOAT, RAFA is a close 2nd, and Joker is a close 3rd. Whoever gets the slam record in the end will sit on the throne alone.

 

[DSH]

 

[Towny]

As much as a 3 way tie would seem 'fitting', I envisage there would be a near incessant attack on Federer to reduce him to third place. Weak era and head to head threads would be all the rage. Not my idea of fun. Would rather Fed finishes ahead but if one or both of Djokodal surpass Fed, it wouldn't be the worst thing.

I also wouldn't want to make any kind of 'deal' anyway. Let it play out as it is going to play out.

 

[RS]

As much as a 3 way tie would seem 'fitting', I envisage there would be a near incessant attack on Federer to reduce him to third place. Weak era and head to head threads would be all the rage. Not my idea of fun. Would rather Fed finishes ahead but if one or both of Djokodal surpass Fed, it wouldn't be the worst thing.

I also wouldn't want to make any kind of 'deal' anyway. Let it play out as it is going to play out.

Djokovic and Nadal will be had a go at for the "weak era" as well. Look at the recent threads about the USO draw.

 

[Towny]

Djokovic and Nadal will be had a go at for the "weak era" as well. Look at the recent threads.

Weak era had become a dismissal argument of choice for all fan bases. Want to put Nadal down? Weak clay era, weak 2010, weak USO draws etc. For Djokovic, it's 2014-16 which is attacked. But the original and still most used weak era argument is against Fed's 2004-07 slam wins. It's basically a meme at this point. Yeah Fed fans have come up with their own arguments as I mentioned above, but it's largely as a reaction to Fed's prime being branded a weak era. Same with the H2H. Some Fed fans are really highlighting his recent success against Nadal as something to denigrate Nadal. But Federer has been criticised for the H2H with Nadal since around 2006

Edit: misread your original post. Yeah there's pushback both ways. I just think that if they're all on the same level, there will be a concerted effort to push Fed into third place. I've seen so many comments such as 'third wheel' and that Fed will be in 'third place, where he belongs'. Maybe it will become unbearable in the short term but will be the best ending to this era in the long term.

 

[weakera]

Why complain about Fed fans when there have been literally 500 threads since July with the theme "40-15?"

As if the other two fan bases are angelic? And bear in mind, the Djokovic and Nadal fan bases unite in hatred/envy of Fed, so it's just endless, tiresome invective and jealousy.

40-15

 

[RS]

Weak era had become a dismissal argument of choice for all fan bases. Want to put Nadal down? Weak clay era, weak 2010, weak USO draws etc. For Djokovic, it's 2014-16 which is attacked. But the original and still most used weak era argument is against Fed's 2004-07 slam wins. It's basically a meme at this point. Yeah Fed fans have come up with their own arguments as I mentioned above, but it's largely as a reaction to Fed's prime being branded a weak era. Same with the H2H. Some Fed fans are really highlighting his recent success against Nadal as something to denigrate Nadal. But Federer has been criticised for the H2H with Nadal since around 2006

Edit: misread your original post. Yeah there's pushback both ways. I just think that if they're all on the same level, there will be a concerted effort to push Fed into third place. I've seen so many comments such as 'third wheel' and that Fed will be in 'third place, where he belongs'. Maybe it will become unbearable in the short term but will be the best ending to this era in the long term.

Yes. It is all bad. You even had threads about 2012 being a weak era lol and was possibly the best year (or at least among the top)
It was mainly Sampras fans and Djokovic fans i think Nadal fans respected Roger more because he was part of that era but that is not the case recently.
This forum is at its worst right now.

 

[Towny]

Yes. It is all bad. You even had threads about 2012 being a weak era lol and was possibly the best year (or at least among the top)

Just LOL at calling 2012 a weak era. I guess anything is a weak era if your favourite player isn't winning

 

[ForehandRF]

The fact that 2007-2013 was stronger than other periods in the Open Era, arguably stronger than the 80s, that doesn't make all slams won outside that period less valuable.Making my favorite player look better by making your favorite one look worse it's some sort of doctrine on TW.

 

[Dilexson]

Nah.

 

[tacou]

lol the question I have is who has asked for the Big 3 to agree on a number and then just go out and achieve it? Wertheim suggests it's a pretty common take..

 

[titoelcolombiano]

This sounds like you are unworried which out of them ends up on top.

I would like Rafa at # 1 please.