A two handed volley?

Inken

New User
I would like to ask everybody and especially 'Tennis Mastery' if one could play a two handed volley. I remember you mentioned in one of your posts that one should not play a two handed volley because you said a one handed volley can be mastered by everybody, it just requires the correct technical skill.

But: I do play the two handed forehand for a while now and I feel so happy and comfortable with it that I thought why not try a double handed volley. So I practiced a bit and was surprised how well it went. Actually, it felt much more comfortable than a one handed volley. I try to hit with a slight underspin and when I have to stretch out I just let go the left hand and play a normal one handed volley. Even the swinging volleys work well with the two handed forehand.

So my question is: Is there a special reason why one should not play a two handed volley? If not, is there anything I should pay attention to or note?
Thanks for any help.
 

Clay lover

Legend
Some plays with a 2hbh slice volley like Davydenko. People like Serena and Agassi regularly goes for 2 handed bh drive volleys.

Yet to see someone with a 2 handed FOREHAND volley though.
 

mightyrick

Legend
Some plays with a 2hbh slice volley like Davydenko. People like Serena and Agassi regularly goes for 2 handed bh drive volleys.

Yet to see someone with a 2 handed FOREHAND volley though.

He's retired now, but Santoro did both 2-handed forehand and backhand volleys.
 

CoachingMastery

Professional
I would like to ask everybody and especially 'Tennis Mastery' if one could play a two handed volley. I remember you mentioned in one of your posts that one should not play a two handed volley because you said a one handed volley can be mastered by everybody, it just requires the correct technical skill.

But: I do play the two handed forehand for a while now and I feel so happy and comfortable with it that I thought why not try a double handed volley. So I practiced a bit and was surprised how well it went. Actually, it felt much more comfortable than a one handed volley. I try to hit with a slight underspin and when I have to stretch out I just let go the left hand and play a normal one handed volley. Even the swinging volleys work well with the two handed forehand.

So my question is: Is there a special reason why one should not play a two handed volley? If not, is there anything I should pay attention to or note?
Thanks for any help.

Good question! There are a few pros and very highly skilled players who do volley with two hands. Done correctly, it offers some of the same components or advantages of the two-handed groundstroke. Namely, a more stable, repeatable swing or stroke path.

However, from a learning standpoint, the problem I have in recommending the two handed volley is that when a beginner has both hands on the racquet, they tend to do things that are similar to their groundstroke pattern, assuming, of course, they are using two hands on their ground game. They often pull over the ball with their non-dominant hand...which is fine for a swinging two-handed volley, but not generally what we want to do with more conventional reaction or low hit balls to our volley.

That said, yes, players can learn to volley well with two hands, just as learning any shot: They need to stay within the desired swing components they want to master and not let something less desired enter the stroke.

And, of course, just like the two-handed groundstroke, a player can always let go and volley a further reaching shot with one hand.

Since you are using two hands on your ground game go ahead and work your volley with two hands within the dynamics of said fundamentals! You will probably develop a very solid volley, if you haven't already. (But, be sure to work your one-handed volleys too!)
 

salsainglesa

Semi-Pro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwLXMRNI0sU

I just watched a video, and i think it seems to be more dificult to get away from shots at your body, besides the obvious reach deficit.
But I think this two handed volley could be very steady and a good weapon to use, I been meaning to try it, i believe drop volleys from hard shot could be enhanced this way, but I have yet to give it a real shot.
It must surely have some advantages, why focus on its shortcomings?

by the way the grips are both eastern.
 

papa

Hall of Fame
Although I have no problems with a two handed volley, I think you'll find reaction time "could" be a spec slower which "might" be an issue along with reach.

However, many players have difficulty with pace and spin at the net and using two hands seems to keep the racquet a lot more steady through the stroke - in other words you might cut down on off-center hits because you can hold the racquet steadier with two hands.

Shots into the body, which are very common at higher levels, are IMO, more difficult also.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Where I think the 2H volley really falls apart is on the approach volley. When we do drills in my clinics on approach volleys (volleys from a deep position, often requiring you to dig out a ball from below the net), the 2H players struggle.

I think it might be partly a balance thing and partly an extension thing. With one hand, you can lengthen your finish and place the ball deeper; with two hands, there is a tendency to swing or to bunt the ball. I also thing it is tougher to move through the ball with 2H volley because of the balance that is lost when you can't take the non-dominant hand back for balance.

The funny thing, though, is that most folks don't find the need for an approach volley until they start playing at an intermediate or advanced level. By then, they are used to using two hands and are kind of stuck.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Use the right shot at the right time.
Approach shots, always 1 hand underspin.
Hitting forcing shots off short balls, do what comes naturally, probably topspin.
Volleys, the best doubles player in the world in the early '70's, FrewMcMillian from SA, used 2 handed underspin volleys for both sides. GeneMayer, a doubles specialist and finalist in several grandslams also used 2 handed underspin volleys on both sides. JimmyConnors, during his ascent to #1, used a 2hbh slice volley.
As said, 2 hands puts more body into the shot, insures shoulder turn and weight forwards, so a lot of fundamentals are covered there. Imagine if you basically had TWO forehand volleys, you'd be much better...:shock:
 

jb193

Rookie
I have been using it for about 6 weeks, with mediocre success. It sure feels good when I make good contact... I do have the bad habit of coming over the ball as CoachingMastery alluded to before.. I rarely come to the net and when I do, I want to be aggressive so this is something that I want to continue to work on....
 

Tennis Dunce

Semi-Pro
^^I'd really analyze a lot of Jimmy Connors footage and his various forays to the net...he was quite skilled at sniping volleys...a la Nalbandian.
 

Carolina Racquet

Professional
A few of the posts named a handful of pros who used two handed volleys. They were pretty unconventional, translated to say they had unique skills to pull off this shot at the highest level.

I used to hit two hands w my backhand volley at a time when I was only a baseliner and was drawn to the net.

When I developed my one handed bh volley, my game took off and I became an all-court player.

With that said... unless you're talented enough to pull off an unconventional shot, work on the more conventional volleying technique for better play.
 

Tennis Dunce

Semi-Pro
It's all about the feet when you volley. Most people associate with volleying toward the ball, but most important, being able to get out of the way and maintain the proper balance for a confident winner. With 1 hand bh its tough enough, especially on world tennis stage, IMHO I believe this is exacerbated when 2 hands are used.
Plus a much larger slot is opened up and exploited (DTL) with passing shots that can be even less precise but effective regardless. Even easier CC passing replies are also established. It's lower %...and tennis is a game of %'s.
 
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CoachingMastery

Professional
A few of the posts named a handful of pros who used two handed volleys. They were pretty unconventional, translated to say they had unique skills to pull off this shot at the highest level.

I used to hit two hands w my backhand volley at a time when I was only a baseliner and was drawn to the net.

When I developed my one handed bh volley, my game took off and I became an all-court player.

With that said... unless you're talented enough to pull off an unconventional shot, work on the more conventional volleying technique for better play.

I agree with this. However, while some so-called unconventional play is truly that, (idiosyncratic or personal evolution), there are some methods that one must look at with an open mind. (Personally, I teach one-handed volleys, never two.)

But, look at what was said about the two-handed backhand prior to--and even during--Connors/Borg/Evert eras. This was terribly "unconventional" and it would take another ten to fifteen years before we would see a true revolution within that shot. (10 to 15 years for pros to finally see the value, train enough players, have enough of those players look to turn pro, and then enough of those players to rise to the top.)

The bottom line for me as an instructor and lecturer: If the technique can be taken to the highest levels without significant restructuring, then it can be taught and learned. If it has limitations within this concept, then no, it should not.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Seriously here, guys...
If you are a baseliner and hasn't learned to volley yet, a 2hbh volley cannot be judged on it's merit whether it works or not, since you CANNOT volley.
A 2hbh volley is easy to teach and easy to learn. Think UNDERSPIN. It's basically a weakhanded forehand volley with all your body weight behind it;.
A 2hbh volley can easily defend itself, by letting go with one hand!
A 2hbh volley has almost as much reach as any volley, just let go with one hand!
Just like the 2hbh topspin groundie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:shock::shock:
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Well, if you let go with one hand, then it ain't a 2H volley, no? :)

Why use a shot that is inherently limited (2H volley) when there is a better alternative (1H volley) that does not require you to make split second decisions about how many hands to use while people are blasting the ball at you.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
YOU hit a 2hbh, as do about 70% of the modern generation of players.
YOU have to decide when to let go when your opponent's shot drives into your body or is hit really wide, and you need to cover the singles alleys playing singles.
Same thing with volleys.
EVERY 2hbh player who plays good tennis lets go on wide shots and on shots hit hard into his body. If they can do it, it must be not too hard to emulate, eh?
And 1hbh volleys, on the backhand side, is much harder to teach, for players used to using 2hbh's.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
YOU hit a 2hbh, as do about 70% of the modern generation of players.
YOU have to decide when to let go when your opponent's shot drives into your body or is hit really wide, and you need to cover the singles alleys playing singles.
Same thing with volleys.
EVERY 2hbh player who plays good tennis lets go on wide shots and on shots hit hard into his body. If they can do it, it must be not too hard to emulate, eh?
And 1hbh volleys, on the backhand side, is much harder to teach, for players used to using 2hbh's.

Sorry, but I absolutely and totally disagree that 2HBH players cannot learn to hit very good 1HBH volleys or that is hard to teach them this. I was taught from the beginning that volleys are hit with one hand in continental grip.

I would certainly agree that once a player has learned to hit a 2HBH volley it will be difficult to change, but that is simply because it is hard to change any tennis stroke, especially if the player has not been made to understand the change or if people keep erroneously telling her that 1HBH volley is "much harder to teach."

I have a lot of teammates and tennis pals. By this point, we are all 3.5s and 4.0s. 90% or more hit a 2HBH groundstroke. Of these, a very large percentage hit a 1HBH volley anyway. A few used to hit a 2HBH volley and, having grown weary of being bad volleyers who couldn't volley unless they were close to the net, decided to change to one hand and are doing very well with it. The others have decided to stick with 2HBH volleys and just figure that they will simply not be very good at net. And they aren't.

Hit whatever volley however you want to hit it. But let's stop fibbing to beginners and suggesting that they can't learn to hit their volleys with one hand. 'Cause they most certainly can, and they will want to once they understand the many reasons that using one hand is superior.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Good question! There are a few pros and very highly skilled players who do volley with two hands. Done correctly, it offers some of the same components or advantages of the two-handed groundstroke. Namely, a more stable, repeatable swing or stroke path.

However, from a learning standpoint, the problem I have in recommending the two handed volley is that when a beginner has both hands on the racquet, they tend to do things that are similar to their groundstroke pattern, assuming, of course, they are using two hands on their ground game. They often pull over the ball with their non-dominant hand...which is fine for a swinging two-handed volley, but not generally what we want to do with more conventional reaction or low hit balls to our volley.

That said, yes, players can learn to volley well with two hands, just as learning any shot: They need to stay within the desired swing components they want to master and not let something less desired enter the stroke.

And, of course, just like the two-handed groundstroke, a player can always let go and volley a further reaching shot with one hand.

Since you are using two hands on your ground game go ahead and work your volley with two hands within the dynamics of said fundamentals! You will probably develop a very solid volley, if you haven't already. (But, be sure to work your one-handed volleys too!)

This is such a good post and answer!
 

CoachingMastery

Professional
Sorry, but I absolutely and totally disagree that 2HBH players cannot learn to hit very good 1HBH volleys or that is hard to teach them this. I was taught from the beginning that volleys are hit with one hand in continental grip.

I would certainly agree that once a player has learned to hit a 2HBH volley it will be difficult to change, but that is simply because it is hard to change any tennis stroke, especially if the player has not been made to understand the change or if people keep erroneously telling her that 1HBH volley is "much harder to teach."

I have a lot of teammates and tennis pals. By this point, we are all 3.5s and 4.0s. 90% or more hit a 2HBH groundstroke. Of these, a very large percentage hit a 1HBH volley anyway. A few used to hit a 2HBH volley and, having grown weary of being bad volleyers who couldn't volley unless they were close to the net, decided to change to one hand and are doing very well with it. The others have decided to stick with 2HBH volleys and just figure that they will simply not be very good at net. And they aren't.

Hit whatever volley however you want to hit it. But let's stop fibbing to beginners and suggesting that they can't learn to hit their volleys with one hand. 'Cause they most certainly can, and they will want to once they understand the many reasons that using one hand is superior.

Cindy has made a very astute point. There is a common misconception that players who learn two-handed backhand groundstrokes, (and two-handed forehands, for that matter), they will have difficulty learning one-handed strokes. (Namely the one-handed volley and the one-handed backhand slice.)

This would be like saying that a player who hits a slice serve can't hit a drop shot...they are totally different shots that are either learned or not.

Certainly, today, we see many 'training camps' focus so much on the topspin game from the base line, (usually with two-handers hitting nowadays), that it could be ASSUMED that such players can't hit a one-handed shot. But this is completely false.

As Cindy did say, a playere who first learned to volley with two hands will indeed have difficulty in transitioning to learning to hit the same volley with one hand. This is obvious when players are first taught to use eastern grips on the serve and volley first and then realize the limitations and try to break the habit and finally start to use a continental...they will almost always go back.

But if players are taught correctly, they can be taught to volley, serve and hit slice backhands even if they hit groundstrokes with two hands.

As stated, they are totally different shots that are either learned or not. (Ever notice the number of slice backhands by ALL the two-handers out there on tour today?)
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
2hbh volleys are easy with double continental grip, your weak hand dominating just like a lefty forehand volley, for righties.
Now if your left hand is useless, then hit one hand volleys.
I"m a lefty player, and my right hand is stronger since birth. Easy to hit 2hbh underspin volleys, and not that bad switching to 1hbh volleys as I got over 40 years of age.
36 years ago, my 2hbh volley was stronger, more consistent, and easier to hit than 1hFOREhand volleys, plus my backhand overheads were great, I could hit swinging topspin 2hbh volleys, and naturally let go to reach wide balls, just like you 2hbh groundie players do now.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
^The left hand is not useless when one is hitting a 1HBH or 1HFH volley.

As it was explained to me, the left hand is key for balance. I don't know whether this is true for everyone, but having the LH go backward as the hitting arm goes forward through the stroke is essential for balance. I would feel that my follow-through was abbreviated if I tried to hit a low volley with two hands. It would be possible to get some slice and not just block the ball, but that takes quite a lot of skill. Or more precisely, way more skill than my 3.5/4.0 2HBH friends have when the ball is deep in the court and below net level.

But if it works for you, Lee, you are not alone. There are a few WTA players who volley very well with 2H volleys (a Chinese player comes to mind, and Bartoli isn't half bad either). Then again, you have Radwanska, who has a terrible terrible terrible 2HBH volley. Poor kid.

Cindy -- who hasn't seen a lot of great 2HBH overhead smashes in her day
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Your examples are of women baseliners who can't volley to begin with.
Watch vids of Connors, McMillian, Mayer, Segura volleying. 2hbh, high rackethead, torso moving forwards, UNDERSPIN every shot, and the most forcing volleys on the pro MEN'S tour. Double conti grip, body turned slightly sideways, just like a 1hbh volley, but with more control and more body mass behind the shot.
Don't watch groundstoking women volley when they don't want to be at net anyways.
 

mucat

Hall of Fame
I hit a lot of 2H volley when play doubles. They are usually quick reflex shot against hard shot from the opponents and they are usually on my BH side. For me, it is a necessity when playing against hard hitters in doubles.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Your examples are of women baseliners who can't volley to begin with.
Watch vids of Connors, McMillian, Mayer, Segura volleying. 2hbh, high rackethead, torso moving forwards, UNDERSPIN every shot, and the most forcing volleys on the pro MEN'S tour. Double conti grip, body turned slightly sideways, just like a 1hbh volley, but with more control and more body mass behind the shot.
Don't watch groundstoking women volley when they don't want to be at net anyways.

Of the current top 25 male pros, which ones use a 2HBh volley? How about the top 50?

Even the weakest male volleyers (I'm lookin' at you, Soderling and pre-2011 Monfils) use 1HBH volley.
 

Tennis Dunce

Semi-Pro
Your examples are of women baseliners who can't volley to begin with.
Watch vids of Connors, McMillian, Mayer, Segura volleying. 2hbh, high rackethead, torso moving forwards, UNDERSPIN every shot, and the most forcing volleys on the pro MEN'S tour. Double conti grip, body turned slightly sideways, just like a 1hbh volley, but with more control and more body mass behind the shot.
Don't watch groundstoking women volley when they don't want to be at net anyways.

This is one interesting grip.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Double conti, used by McMillian, Mayer, and Connors, is the accepted 2hbh volley grip, just like volleying with one hand. And underspin is the chosen stroke, just like one hand.
Cindy. 50 years ago, only Segura used a 2hbh, and everyone said..."look at the top 50 players, only ONE uses 2hbh, so it's no good, right"
That is EXACTLY what you are saying.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Double conti, used by McMillian, Mayer, and Connors, is the accepted 2hbh volley grip, just like volleying with one hand. And underspin is the chosen stroke, just like one hand.
Cindy. 50 years ago, only Segura used a 2hbh, and everyone said..."look at the top 50 players, only ONE uses 2hbh, so it's no good, right"
That is EXACTLY what you are saying.

So you are thinking maybe the 2HBH volley is the Wave Of The Future among the top male tennis pros? :)
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Well, we know a 1hbh volley is no good, wont' work, is history.
Those aforementioned players on my other post had much more pace and control with their 2hbh volleys than anyone had with ONE HAND, forehand or backhand. That's why Frew and Bob were #1 doubles for at least 5 years on the men's tour. And Gene was a doubles specialist, not hitting any volleys with one hand unless stretched wide.
In tennis, as in every other endeavor in life, if you hit your first offensive shot with power, precision, and boldness, the opponent's responce will be weak and indecisive. That's why some players choose the 2hbh volley. It's stronger than the forehand volley, much stronger than the 1hbh volley.
Now do you have to ask me why? If you do, you volley at a low level right now.
And why doesn't more top players use the 2hbh volley? Because taught from a wee lad or laddie, they all stay at the baseline!....and listen to naysayers like you who've never seen a good strong 2hbh volley.
 

Inken

New User
Thanks everybody for joining the discussion and mentioning important things. You gave me a lot to think of!
I think I'll go for a two handed volley on both sides - because it 'feels good', and even pros do it. And play the one handed volley from time to time - because it seems to be the 'right' way to do it.
Thanks again!
 

Zachol82

Professional
So my question is: Is there a special reason why one should not play a two handed volley? If not, is there anything I should pay attention to or note?
Thanks for any help.

I do a 2hbh volley. It works.

A downside would probably be limitation of reach. However, I can always use my 1hbh volley as well so not like it matters =]

I did not do a 2hbh volley because I consciously wanted to. It just somehow happened and I have no clue why, but I react to shots toward my backhand side with 2 hands instead.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Well, first thing we're taught, when volleying, is to hold conti strong hand and support the racket with the other hand right at the top of the handle. If you grip slips down 2", you can hit a double conti volley.
Double conti volley makes you turn sideways, short prep, short followthru, body weight behind shot, all attributes to a good 1hbh volleys except you get more weight behind you shot.....another good thing.
You can always let go and hit with normal hand or let go and hit with weak hand, both of which works just fine with practice.
 

Inken

New User
It's essential to use conti grip with the right hand for fh and bh volleys. The left hand is kind of support and stabilizing the stroke. (two handed volleys do not work with eastern grip for right hand).

With conti grip you can play really good volleys with underspin, especially with the double handed forehand - even if nobody can believe that ;-)
 

papa

Hall of Fame
Rather interesting discussion. I do see players frequently struggle with the volley - mechanics, timing and strength. My concern, at least at the moment, is reaction time and the grip change from side to side - maybe the grip change is not necessary.

There are a couple of advanced players that I volley with frequently that use two hands but both seem to have difficulty when we are doing reflex type shots - if you work them side to side the stroke seems to break down or the ball starts to play them.

Have others experienced this and what have you found to be good solutions.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Solution is double conti volley, like McMillian, Mayer, and Connors.
Your practice buds might not be good volleyers. Not everyone volleys well.
For instance, given one on one point blank volleying practice, I normally LOSE. Now put me in a point situation, and my volleys are a full level and a half above my playing level.
The two situations are entirely different.
 

papa

Hall of Fame
Solution is double conti volley, like McMillian, Mayer, and Connors.
Your practice buds might not be good volleyers. Not everyone volleys well.
For instance, given one on one point blank volleying practice, I normally LOSE. Now put me in a point situation, and my volleys are a full level and a half above my playing level.
The two situations are entirely different.

Well, I volley with lots of players that are extremely good at net also but I hear you.

What I'd be interested in is whether you change hands from side to side and if you do what about reflex shots. My guess is that you don't and that probably gives you the time. However, I have seen players juggling the racket from side to side which to me seems difficult and time consuming.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Personally, I never used a 2 hand forehand volley. I used 1hand forehand volleys.
But during a short violent run in A/Open and Q events, almost every volley I could reach was hit 2hbh underspin, with penetration, placement, consistency, and body weight. It was stronger than my 1hbh volley, but I wasn't about to change in the middle of match play during the season.
Gotta understand, body build was 5'11" and about 130 then, so maybe not the strongest player on the courts. By my second year of tennis, I'd seen all those A/Open women hitting 2hbh groudies, so I did also. And one GilHoward, a flat serving A/Open Men, had 2hbh backhand volleys which were better than his forehand volleys. Those days, mid '70's, Frew was tops, Gene a top college player, Connors an up and comer, and several other Open players (well played Open) used 2hbh volleys.
It's been said a modern player cannot compete playing the volley game against the new rackets and the 2hbh groundstroke. So maybe, given a 2hbh volley, maybe they can take advantage of the bigger technology and stronger volley of the 2hbh. Certainly worked for groundies.
 
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