A Visit to The Music City Challenger: Frames and Playing Styles

J011yroger said:
The thing that gets me is 149 in the WORLD...16 in the USA. So there are what 7-8 guys in the country who can make a living playing tennis?

P.S. the 16th highest payed Baseball player in the country is Mike Hampton at a cool $14.5M

J
Click to expand...

Yes. That's just about right.

It DOES make you wonder where all that money the USTA raises every year IS going, doesn't it? It would NOT appear it's being channeled to 'Grass Roots Tennis', unless you guys know something I don't. ;)

CC
 
NoBadMojo said:
ya i figured that was your source....the bleeding ear syndrom will become pandemic on the TW forum when fed changes to a MP sized frame.............;O
Click to expand...


In all fairness Mojo, you do know of my affection for the Wilson HPS 6.0 95 Euro, as well as the Volkl Tour 10 Gen 2, Tour 10 VE MP, and C10 Pro.

So, if Federer does break his word to me and change to a midplus, relief is still available.

Or, maybe someone on the forum can find a new way to calculate head size and prove the K90 is actually a K93, or K94, or something more "MP-like".

;) CC
 
Craig A. Clark said:
In all fairness Mojo, you do know of my affection for the Wilson HPS 6.0 95 Euro, as well as the Volkl Tour 10 Gen 2, Tour 10 VE MP, and C10 Pro.

So, if Federer does break his word to me and change to a midplus, relief is still available.

Or, maybe someone on the forum can find a new way to calculate head size and prove the K90 is actually a K93, or K94, or something more "MP-like".

;) CC
Click to expand...

I don't use the K90 because it is a mid, I use it because it is a solid box beam frame, that feels solid. If Wilson made the 95 box beam like the ps95s of old I would definately take it for a spin (pun intended) as long as it still felt like I was hitting the ball with an oldsmobile.

All the oval beam frames out there just feel like tinny pieces of garbage.

J
 
I remember seeing Mike Hampton pitch in the minor leagues, oh so many years ago. I had no idea he would ever make it to the show. Pretty cool.

I have no idea what the USTA does with their money, it seems they spend it on office furniture and expense accounts, but maybe that's just some distorted perception of mine.
 
Craig A. Clark said:
In all fairness Mojo, you do know of my affection for the Wilson HPS 6.0 95 Euro, as well as the Volkl Tour 10 Gen 2, Tour 10 VE MP, and C10 Pro.

So, if Federer does break his word to me and change to a midplus, relief is still available.

Or, maybe someone on the forum can find a new way to calculate head size and prove the K90 is actually a K93, or K94, or something more "MP-like".

;) CC
Click to expand...

recognize the pattern.....

defiance ---> denial ----> twisting things about to fit ---> insults ---> bleeding from the ears ----> Spontaneous Human Combustion

you will notice there are some TW forum members never heard from since it was confirmed that 'C'mon' Hewitt switched from a Mid to a MP. ;O
 
J011yroger said:
I don't use the K90 because it is a mid, I use it because it is a solid box beam frame, that feels solid. If Wilson made the 95 box beam like the ps95s of old I would definately take it for a spin (pun intended) as long as it still felt like I was hitting the ball with an oldsmobile.

All the oval beam frames out there just feel like tinny pieces of garbage.
Click to expand...
Yup, I agree 100%! :D
 
NoBadMojo said:
recognize the pattern.....

defiance ---> denial ----> twisting things about to fit ---> insults ---> bleeding from the ears ----> Spontaneous Human Combustion

you will notice there are some TW forum members never heard from since it was confirmed that 'C'mon' Hewitt switched from a Mid to a MP. ;O
Click to expand...

Mojo-Nator,

I hope you didn't think any of what I said was insulting. :confused: I was just jokin' around man.

BTW, did Hewitt switch? I think I must have missed that debate/discussion.

Best,

CC
 
Craig A. Clark said:
Mojo-Nator,

I hope you didn't think any of what I said was insulting. :confused: I was just jokin' around man.

BTW, did Hewitt switch? I think I must have missed that debate/discussion.

Best,

CC
Click to expand...

no..not at all....hope you didnt think what i said was insulting..i was just messin' w. you w. some reality based humour ;)

yes, hewitt switched to a larger headed frame and there was lots of denial and bleeding from the ears going on
 
Craig A. Clark said:
Yes. That's just about right.

It DOES make you wonder where all that money the USTA raises every year IS going, doesn't it? It would NOT appear it's being channeled to 'Grass Roots Tennis', unless you guys know something I don't. ;)

CC
Click to expand...

Of course the money goes to grass roots, only there's those pesky gopher tunnels that lead to a few other backyards.
 
Over here in Canada a lot of the top juniors that i know of are power hitters, but they follow in to the net. However, I wouldn't say they are all-courters, most of them like to rally from the baseline a lot, and you don't see to many, if any, backhand slices...

So of course, Canadian tennis is behind... haha
 
NoBadMojo said:
no..not at all....hope you didnt think what i said was insulting..i was just messin' w. you w. some reality based humour ;)

yes, hewitt switched to a larger headed frame and there was lots of denial and bleeding from the ears going on
Click to expand...

OK, good. ;) Actually I thought what you wrote before was pretty funny.

As for the bleeding ears, allow me to recommend cotton balls, 'cause I doubt Hewitt will provide the same kind of humanitarian response as afforded me by Fed. ;)

CC
 
hey craig,

I caught some of the matches yesterday and today. I probably was sitting near you and didn't realize who you were.
I saw a guy named bloomfield from GBR play yesterday. Big unorthodox serve, great one hander. The guy is sort of built like Stich.
I watched a blond guy from south africa Van der merwe
beat the american Philip Simmonds. Van der Merwe had a really good one hander. I left while David Martin and Fritz Wolmarans were playing. Wolmarans was a tough serve and volleyer.
An interesting side note is that I saw Vijay Paul play. He got a wild card because he plays at Vandy. I used to play against his Dad in Middle States tourneys ( new jersey) I would have liked to talk to young VJ but I had to get back to my medical conference.

paul
 
Mike, give me a few days to sort through them (I took hundreds) and get them up on my imageshack account. I guess I'll put them here to make then easy to find. Does that work for you?
 
Fee said:
Mike, give me a few days to sort through them (I took hundreds) and get them up on my imageshack account. I guess I'll put them here to make then easy to find. Does that work for you?
Click to expand...

Sure, works fine. Thanks and look forward to them.
Mike
 
Craig A. Clark said:
BTW, did Hewitt switch? I think I must have missed that debate/discussion.
Click to expand...
Yes, Hewitt switched from a Mid to a MP and then quickly made his earliest exit from the US Open ever and then hasn't been heard from since. Looks like he should have stuck to his Mid. ;)
 
paulmaben said:
hey craig,

I caught some of the matches yesterday and today. I probably was sitting near you and didn't realize who you were.
I saw a guy named bloomfield from GBR play yesterday. Big unorthodox serve, great one hander. The guy is sort of built like Stich.
I watched a blond guy from south africa Van der merwe
beat the american Philip Simmonds. Van der Merwe had a really good one hander. I left while David Martin and Fritz Wolmarans were playing. Wolmarans was a tough serve and volleyer.
An interesting side note is that I saw Vijay Paul play. He got a wild card because he plays at Vandy. I used to play against his Dad in Middle States tourneys ( new jersey) I would have liked to talk to young VJ but I had to get back to my medical conference.

paul
Click to expand...

Hi Paul,

Yes, we were probably only separated by a few feet!! ;) I'm friends w/ his coach, Ian D. and we sat together and talked as he charted VP's match!

Please let me know the next time you are in town. I hope to be back 'in the swing' of tennis by the Thanksgiving Holiday.

Best,

CC
 
BreakPoint said:
Yes, Hewitt switched from a Mid to a MP and then quickly made his earliest exit from the US Open ever and then hasn't been heard from since. Looks like he should have stuck to his Mid. ;)
Click to expand...

:) I am suprised he made the change too. I'd think that it would take a good while to 'get used to' a new frame and that pros probably can't/don't want to take that time, especially if they've already enjoyed the kind of success Lleyton has over the years.

Can you think of examples of other pros who have benefitted from a change of frame mid-career?

Best,

CC
 
Craig A. Clark said:
Can you think of examples of other pros who have benefitted from a change of frame mid-career?
Click to expand...
Oh, come on Craig, that's waaayy too easy! ;) The one and only Roger Federer, who went from an 85 to a 90 mid-career and the rest is, as they say, "history". :D


(Then there's also Davydenko, who's ranking took off after he switched to the Prince O3 Tour.)
 
Craig A. Clark said:
So, what did you think of it? Was it the 'Pro' version or the 'Regular'? CC
Click to expand...

It was the midplus, I wanted the mid, but was unable to get ahold of it from my friends in low places.

It was wierd. I thrashed it against a couple of former future playing pros, and it just felt off. It didn't have much sting, I wouldn't call it gutless, but it was just the next thing above gutless. Might have been the bogus strings.

It felt real nice in the hand, looked real nice, looked like it would volley well.

I am gonna crack a few serves with it and report.

One of the pros currently plays the microgel radical, and he hit the prestiege and agreed that it was wierd, like the weighting was off.

I thrashed his bat for a while and was quite impressed with how solid it felt, and how it had nice pop.

I hope the mid is better, and I hope that the bogus demo strings are messing with the MP, cuz it looked sweet stat wise.

J
 
P.S. I switched between the Pros Radical, the tripple secret prestiege, and my leaded up N90s with not much trouble at all, not much jiving with my timing, or difficulty controlling the ball. Sure they all hit different balls, but said balls generally went where I wanted them to go.

I let the other pro on court thrash my N90 instead of his babolat, and he did just fine with that, just like the radical user did just fine with the prestiege.

Go figure.

J
 
BreakPoint said:
Oh, come on Craig, that's waaayy too easy! ;) The one and only Roger Federer, who went from an 85 to a 90 mid-career and the rest is, as they say, "history". :D


(Then there's also Davydenko, who's ranking took off after he switched to the Prince O3 Tour.)
Click to expand...

You are so right. I can't believe I didn't think of those guys. ;) I also think Roddick's ranking also shot up after he put down the POG OS in favor of the PD+. CC
 
Let's not forget Gene Mayer. Was nowhere in the rankings, shot up to #4 as soon as he started using the POG OS.
 
J011yroger said:
It was the midplus, I wanted the mid, but was unable to get ahold of it from my friends in low places.

It was wierd. I thrashed it against a couple of former future playing pros, and it just felt off. It didn't have much sting, I wouldn't call it gutless, but it was just the next thing above gutless. Might have been the bogus strings.

It felt real nice in the hand, looked real nice, looked like it would volley well.

I am gonna crack a few serves with it and report.

One of the pros currently plays the microgel radical, and he hit the prestiege and agreed that it was wierd, like the weighting was off.

I thrashed his bat for a while and was quite impressed with how solid it felt, and how it had nice pop.

I hope the mid is better, and I hope that the bogus demo strings are messing with the MP, cuz it looked sweet stat wise.

J
Click to expand...


Yes, very interesting. Those lousy demo strings are always an issue. Thinking back a few generations in the Head line, I loved the i Prestige mid but always felt the weight DISTRIBUTION on the i Prestige MP was strange-it never 'felt right' to me for some reason. On the other hand the FXP Prestige MP felt GREAT, and the FXP Prestige MID felt awkward (to me). Go figure! ;) CC
 
J011yroger said:
P.S. I switched between the Pros Radical, the tripple secret prestiege, and my leaded up N90s with not much trouble at all, not much jiving with my timing, or difficulty controlling the ball. Sure they all hit different balls, but said balls generally went where I wanted them to go.

I let the other pro on court thrash my N90 instead of his babolat, and he did just fine with that, just like the radical user did just fine with the prestiege.

Go figure.

J
Click to expand...

I have seen this time and again amongst better players. ;) Good players can hit the ball well w/ just about any frame. It comes down to what they play BEST using. ;) CC
 
Craig,

Do you think that, rather than having witnessed the 're-birth' of a game style', the reason why so many of the guys you saw are playing at a lower-than-tour level is because of their game style?
 
AndrewD said:
Craig,

Do you think that, rather than having witnessed the 're-birth' of a game style', the reason why so many of the guys you saw are playing at a lower-than-tour level is because of their game style?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same - upcoming promising players have 2 handed backhands, play a baseline game, and don't use mid-sized racquets. Maybe that is why the players in this tournament are stuck at the Challenger level.
 
Craig A. Clark said:
Excellent point! :) Forgot about that one too. When did Connors change over to the T2000? CC
Click to expand...
Well, I know Connors was already using the T-2000 when he won 3 out of 4 Slams in 1974 and I believe he was using it well before then.

If we want to talk about the most drastic changes, we can talk about the pros that switched from wood to graphite mid-career since that's like a night and day change. The first one that comes to mind is John McEnroe who switched from his Dunlop woodie to the Max200G in mid-1983 and then went on a tear for the rest of '83 and all of '84 (the year he went like 86-3 or something like that). :)
 
sureshs said:
I was thinking the same - upcoming promising players have 2 handed backhands, play a baseline game, and don't use mid-sized racquets. Maybe that is why the players in this tournament are stuck at the Challenger level.
Click to expand...

and maybe these arent all 'young up and comers'....maybe the field is a mixture of 'young and going nowhere', 'young and up and coming', and 'been around the block journeymen'. dont think one challenger event is indicative of anything...it's just a miniature slice of a big pie at one moment in time, but thanks to Craigster for taking the time to post his observations.
 
sureshs said:
I was thinking the same - upcoming promising players have 2 handed backhands, play a baseline game, and don't use mid-sized racquets. Maybe that is why the players in this tournament are stuck at the Challenger level.
Click to expand...
Huh? The guys that play in the Futures and Challengers ARE where the upcoming promising players come out of. That's why they call the tournaments "Futures". :o
 
These are the ones in the main draw:

Anderson, Kevin RSA 222
Kuznetsov, Alex USA 210
Baker, Jamie GBR 226
Levy, Harel ISR 203
Bogdanovic, Alex GBR 154
Mello, Ricardo BRA 194
Bogomolov Jr., Alex USA 181
Querrey, Sam USA 60
Bozoljac, Ilia SRB 214
Ram, Rajeev USA 227
Delic, Amer USA 84
Reynolds, Bobby USA 116
Fleishman, Zack USA 133
Spadea, Vincent USA 79
Gambill, Jan-Michael USA
Vemic, Dusan SRB 170
Isner, John USA 145
Warburg, Sam USA 147
Kendrick, Robert USA 113
Witten, Jesse USA 208
Kim, Kevin USA 185
Young, Donald USA 141
 
Craig A. Clark said:
Yes, very interesting. Those lousy demo strings are always an issue. Thinking back a few generations in the Head line, I loved the i Prestige mid but always felt the weight DISTRIBUTION on the i Prestige MP was strange-it never 'felt right' to me for some reason. On the other hand the FXP Prestige MP felt GREAT, and the FXP Prestige MID felt awkward (to me). Go figure! ;) CC
Click to expand...

Exactly how we both felt about the microgel MP. The weight was right, the balance was right, but the weight was in the wrong spot.

So it felt good in hand, good on dry swings, but very strange when you hit the ball.

J
 
I went the wole weekend and im going this whole week. Its very easy to getup and close to ALL the players, ask about equipment, practice, experiences etc. also i sat in the stringingroom for an hour. guy told me they were getting about 200 rackets this week.btw im 13, im going tommorow afternoon
 
I stopped by after work today and saw the end of match between Miranda (rank 237 from PERU) and Oudsema (rank 335 from USA). They had to play tie break to decide the match as both were fairly even. Miranda is the shorter guy (5' 9") but he was serving some bombs. They traded aces back and forth the last couple games I watched.

The courts seemed fast to me. I played on them before and I thought they were fast because I served several aces while I was playing doubles when rained out one day. Trust me, I suck and I managed to crack more aces than usual. It is fast compared to the outside Vandy courts. May be things are just faster indoors. Anyway, there were aces left and right when these guys played. Also, groundstrokes were pretty fast as well as they both hit fairly flat. I don't know, tired? Going for the kill?

The short guy ended up winning, 7-6 in the 3rd set. Isner is playing tomorrow night so I will probably see how fast he serves.
 
Last edited:
AndrewD said:
Craig,

Do you think that, rather than having witnessed the 're-birth' of a game style', the reason why so many of the guys you saw are playing at a lower-than-tour level is because of their game style?
Click to expand...

That's a fair question and un-knowable, in so far as I can tell. ;) What I can tell you is that this kind of tournament is one notch below the ATP level, and generally speaking they were playing a more attacking, all court kind of style than I have witnessed amongst them in years past. Best, CC
 
sureshs said:
I was thinking the same - upcoming promising players have 2 handed backhands, play a baseline game, and don't use mid-sized racquets. Maybe that is why the players in this tournament are stuck at the Challenger level.
Click to expand...

Again, I can't say with certainty much of anything based on my observations at this one tournament. However, think back on the a series of #1 players:

Federer 1HBH, mid
Sampras 1HBH, mid
Moya, 2HBH, MP
Kafelnikov 2HBH, MP
Rafter, 1HBH, MP
Agassi, 2HBH, MP/OS
Courier, 2HBH, mid
Edberg, 1HBH, mid
Becker, 1HBH, mid
Lendl, 1HBH, mid
McEnroe, 1HBH, mid
Borg, 2HBH, mid

Looks like both 'camps' are well represented to me. ;)

Best,

CC
 
I may see you there, Craig. Thinking about heading there this weekend if the right players are playing on Sat and Sun...
 
Craig A. Clark said:
Again, I can't say with certainty much of anything based on my observations at this one tournament. However, think back on the a series of #1 players:
Looks like both 'camps' are well represented to me. ;)

Best,

CC
Click to expand...

Heck, it will be fun to see how the 2 opposite K90 users play out.

Age Vs. Youth

Eastern Vs. Western

One Hand Vs. Two Hands

Precision Skill and Strategy Vs. Brute Strength and Ignorance.

J
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Just Switched From 6.1 Tour Line to Flexpoint Prestige MP
Replies
0
Views
592
djicha
D
big bang
PJ on the classics?
Replies
0
Views
859
big bang
big bang
saram
Head PJ article. And why James switched back to Dunlop.
Replies
38
Views
8K
RacquetCraft
R
BounceHitBounceHit
Observations on the frames of The Stanford Champions' Tour
Replies
24
Views
4K
BounceHitBounceHit
BounceHitBounceHit
Leelord337
I love the ATP challenger tour
Replies
10
Views
2K
bigserving
bigserving
Back
Top