A Way of Measuring Your Serve Power

user92626

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Hello, I have this question...


With lack of a radar gun, is it generally a good test of your serve speed by observing where your receiving opponents stand?

If they stand behind the baseline to adequately return your serve, is it safe to say you serve at least 80+ mph?

I watch WTA and notice receivers stand a little behind baseline and the serve clock often shows the serves to be 100+, 110 or even 130 mph.
 
I doubt it, serve return positioning is personal preference a lot of the time. Eg. Some people stand further back returning kick serves to take a full swing at the ball, while standing close to the baseline to take a hard serve as a half-volley-type shot and guide it in.
 
It depends on how smart your opponents are. There's this one 3.5 joker that I play with and he stands about 4 feet away from the SERVICE line for serves. Sometimes it works for him with really weak servers, but he doesn't scoot back for bigger servers.

My point being, some people are not smart enough players to adjust their return position. If you're a 4.0 or 4.5 and people are standing 5 feet behind the baseline, it's probably a sign you've got a decent serve.
 
Hey there's also a clown like that in my group. He's very competent with volleys and to boost everyone serves like crap. I only better my serve recently, like in the last two weeks, so we'll have to see. But it's kinda nerve racking to see someone making a mock out of your serve. LOL.

Anyway, I'm talking about opponents in general, minus good returners and those with preference.
 
I would say not at all. Regardless of level, where a player stands usually just speaks about their ability on the return of serve and says nothing about the ability or pace of your serve.

I play a lot of 3.5 and some 4.0 players and I consider my serve a weapon. I have seen 4.0 guys stand anywhere from 1ft to 5ft behind the baseline and have seen 3.5 guys stand inside the baseline and both of them return with equal success.

I consider my return game to be pretty well for the 3.5 to 4.5 level serves I have seen and I will never give up an inch on the baseline. I usually stand no more than a foot behind the baseline to receive and the only adjustments I make are right or left once I see what spots they can and can't hit or moving up if I feel like their second serve has no pace on it and I want to attack it.
 
Some players like to stay a bit further back and take bigger cuts at the ball. Doesn't really help though, some pro players step in on 100mph kick serves on or a little inside the baseline.

Only way I could think of is if it hits the back fence then it's past a certain range, but you cant tell by how high the ball is when it reaches the fence. Can't say for certain that hitting the back fence requires a 60mph serve or anything though.

I've heard of a Ipod App that can help you record your serve speed through sound..not sure how that works or where its at. Oh and theres a website you can use to find out how fast you serve if you can video yourself. Here it is...http://www.donthireddy.us/tennis/speed.html
 
sometimes i move right in, to within 5 feet of service line to see how server handles it, i can generally also get serves back at my level from there though they reaction returns. Some serves fall to pieces on it. If second serves are not strong i also come right in to let them know the return will get slammed at them unless its a good serve. Normally i stand on base line or just behind if it is fast. Sometimes i also cheat towards my left to let them think i prefer my FH return, and if they try and still place to my BH, they have to place it very well. That also tends to work well.

So where i stand is really down to my strategy and not just what the server is doing, its about trying to take a bit of his advantage away.
 
If they CAN stand 2' inside the baseline and successfully return your first fastest serve, your serve is not that fast.
If they need to stand 3' behind the baseline to BLOCK your fastest serves, your serve is going pretty good.
Talking at the 4.5 tournament level.
If they stand 6' behind the service line and return your serve half the time, your serve is slow.
 
LeeD said:
If they CAN stand 2' inside the baseline and successfully return your first fastest serve, your serve is not that fast.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this. This has more to do with the returner's ability/preference than the server's ability.

Just because they can successfully block back a fast serve from 2' inside the baseline, doesn't mean it wouldn't be more effective to stand behind the baseline and take a bigger cut on the ball with the serve being at a fast pace.
 
Discussion.....
At the 4.5+ level.
If they stand 2' inside the baseline, they are contacting the ball there or a foot to 2 closer in at contact. Good returners are moving forward.
If you get your serve returned consisitently against that positioning, your serve is certainly NOT 125+ or anywhere close to 140.
Certainly you have no placement at all. Just hit it right at them, and watch how they comically jump awkwardly out of the way!
All sorts of good players can stand in against my second topspin serves.
NONE of them up to 5.5 can stand inside the baseline and consistently return my first flats, including some current Div1's.
Of course, the current trend is to stand back some and take a semifull swing at the ball, so they stand 4' behind the baseline to start.
 
LeeD said:
Discussion.....
At the 4.5+ level.
If they stand 2' inside the baseline, they are contacting the ball there or a foot to 2 closer in at contact. Good returners are moving forward.
If you get your serve returned consisitently against that positioning, your serve is certainly NOT 125+ or anywhere close to 140.
Certainly you have no placement at all. Just hit it right at them, and watch how they comically jump awkwardly out of the way!
All sorts of good players can stand in against my second topspin serves.
NONE of them up to 5.5 can stand inside the baseline and consistently return my first flats, including some current Div1's.
Of course, the current trend is to stand back some and take a semifull swing at the ball, so they stand 4' behind the baseline to start.
Click to expand...

They might be able to block a return from 2' in, but if they want to hit a *good* return, then they have to stand back. Doesn't mean the serve is weak because they can block it form 2' in.
 
Let's argue for the fun of it....
At the 4.5 PLUS level, if they just get it back with a slice, you punish the next ball and win the point, thus your serve is effective enough.
If they need to stand back 4' to hit a neutralizing return, your serve is good enough again.
If they stand back 4' and lose most points on your serve, your serve is good enough.
Idea of the serve is to WIN the point. Not necessarily win it with that serve, but to start the point in an offensive pattern.
 
A good benchmark is if people can even see the ball. When they respond negatively, you have just reached the 100mph+ range.
 
nereis said:
A good benchmark is if people can even see the ball. When they respond negatively, you have just reached the 100mph+ range.
Click to expand...

This made me laugh. Too bad it isn't true.:)

I've sat at the baseline watching and almost being hit by serves over 130mph, and they weren't at all difficult to see, but they were harder to call if they were close to the line.

A radar gun is still the easiest way.
 
Radar guns are fun but unfortunately are not that accurate - at least the ones I've seen. You really want to get the speed just as the ball comes off the racquet when its traveling as fast as its going to go. I think the racquet and the ball together screws up a lot of the readings although they have gotten a lot better recently.

Where a player stands to receive serve "generally" is a good indication of speed and the playing surface. For instance, one can step in a speck on Har-Tru as compared to a fast surface.

Many/most of the time I find myself 6 feet (first serve) or more behind the baseline on receiving but there are times when I can get inside the baseline and take the ball on the rise with more of a block stroke. Really depends on how the server moves the ball around. If your way back and the server is good on wide stuff then your going to miss a lot. So it really depends on the surface, the skill of the server of being able to move the ball around, singles/doubles, how well your seeing the ball, etc.
 
WildVolley said:
This made me laugh. Too bad it isn't true.:)

I've sat at the baseline watching and almost being hit by serves over 130mph, and they weren't at all difficult to see, but they were harder to call if they were close to the line.

A radar gun is still the easiest way.
Click to expand...

Makes you think about how hard it is to be a line keeper.
 
Lol I'm a big server so everyoone I play with stands halfway between the baseline and backfence.

But when I hit a underhand drop serve, that doesnt mean its going 80mph. (+ Other occasions too).

Other than radar, use a camera that can count the frames it takes for ur serve to get from contact to service box. Here's the site, http://donthireddy.us/tennis/speed.html
I dunno much about the accuracy of this since I dont understand anything below the first part of the page lol.

A more faster way without any technology involved is judging from how much the back tarp (for indoor courts without backfences) bends back from the force of the serve. I guess it heavily depends on the tarp material, size, thickness etc. But if you know the speed of a serve and how much it bends the tarp, then its approximate enough to judge any increase/decrease in speed from the bending of the back tarp. For added precision, I take how much the ball "jumps" into the back after its bounce as a factor. Serves reaching around 100mph almost seem to elongate the ball after the bounce (server's perspective)
^ The above technique only works best for flatter serves. Second serves with the added RPM messes up the tarp bending.
 
Does it matter? The real question is how effective it is. Flat, kick, slice, up the T, out wide, etc. The real test of the serve is how many points you win with it, not how fast it is.
 
BMC9670 said:
Does it matter? The real question is how effective it is. Flat, kick, slice, up the T, out wide, etc. The real test of the serve is how many points you win with it, not how fast it is.
Click to expand...

Speed matters a lot in serving. I doubt I or anyone would fail to return any type of serves, flat, kick, slice, junk, that go 40 mph!

In fact, what's more tricky & unpredictable than "junk" serve by low level players? Do you lose to those guys on serve?
 
BMC9670 said:
Does it matter? The real question is how effective it is. Flat, kick, slice, up the T, out wide, etc. The real test of the serve is how many points you win with it, not how fast it is.
Click to expand...

well an effective serve should be atleast around 80mph. Of course placement, spin are all important but speed is sometimes too belittled.
 
user92626 said:
Speed matters a lot in serving. I doubt I or anyone would fail to return any type of serves, flat, kick, slice, junk, that go 40 mph!
Click to expand...

That's the other end of the spectrum. It matters, but I just think guys are too obsessed with MPH. If a player has good mechanics and can hit variety, chances are their pace is decent as well. May not get to 100 MPH, but enough to keep the returner off balance. As guys try and eek out another few MPH, their first serve percentage drops.
 
An effective serve wins you free points or sets you up to dictate the point.
Mph is only 1 of many characteristics that make up an effective serve.
A serve is not effective simply because of mph.
I'm sure you guys know many people (as I do) that can hit the ball like a cannon but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
CHEERS!
 
user92626 said:
Hey there's also a clown like that in my group. He's very competent with volleys and to boost everyone serves like crap. I only better my serve recently, like in the last two weeks, so we'll have to see. But it's kinda nerve racking to see someone making a mock out of your serve.
Click to expand...

Not really... I've had people do that to me, more so on second serves, but I know that most people don't have anywhere near the tennis skill required to return my second serve consistently from such a position. Even fewer can do something with that return. So if they come up, I just hit my second serve and take the free error. I'm just that confident in my serve because I know it's good and that it's reliable.
 
What's even funnier about the "stand 4 feet from the service line" guys is when they call every serve out that is close because they can't return it. I had a guy like this at my club last season. My first serve is at least hard enough to warrant standing maybe 2-3 feet inside the baseline..this guys standing 3 feet from the service line and calling balls hitting on top of the line "out"..... with authority!!!

Do a little drill..take a ball and put it 2 inches behind the service line..now stand 4 feet behind the service line..can you see any green/blue whatever color the court is between the ball and the service line? Maybe if you're 8 feet tall.

In other words, you can't possibly "see" a serve out that is actually less than 4 or so inches long when it is in front of you..you can only assume.
 
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