abandon the term 'backhand slice'

dozu

Banned
Basically the term 'slice' has every player started on the wrong foot.

Beginners see the pros swing the stick from high to low, plus they see the back spin on the ball in super slow-mo, plus they call it the 'slice'...... so guess what... they literally slice the ball!

and what happens? they slice at it - i.e. chop at it... ball floats up, no pace, a sitting duck.

this stroke is not taught properly even at the Division I level - not to mention at the high school level, every kid I have hit with produce the exact choppy sitting duck with their slice.

I have only correct a small number of people on this stroke - people I know well enough so they don't take offense, or people who are willing to listen.

the teaching community, and the TV commentators, should all call it the backhand drive, the backhand 'knock', the backhand tap -what have you.

when I correct people on this stroke, the first thing I tell them is to forget about the term 'slice'; the 2nd thing I ask them to do is to try to hit the ball with NO SPIN - ZERO..... all of a sudden they all produce this penetrating thing of beauty.

of course even if the intention is to hit a ball with no spin - in reality the ball does come with underspin, because the impact is with an open racket face.

whoever invented the term 'slice' should be shot - that person definitely didn't know how to hit it properly... he probably just watched from the sidelines and went - hm, how should this shot be called.... because it looks like a high to low chop... let's call it the 'slice' !

the rest is history - millions of tennis fans played their whole lives without knowing why their 'slice' doesn't look like the 'slice' on TV !
 

coyfish

Hall of Fame
Lol so what should they call it?? . . . the backspin low recovery shot ??

Its definately not a "driving" shot or a "knock." I think slice is fine because the emphasis on the shot is backspin. And pro's do slice down and out on the slices. More so than beginners are taught. At first its best to slice using as you mentioned . . . an out in front motion. When you get better you can really take a vertical cut at the ball to generate a lot more spin and still keep it low.

Take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXM3I9E4E8&feature=related

I think what your saying pertains well to beginners learning how to slice. Once you improve however the shot becomes more of a vertical (racket motion).

I think the slice shot should not be taught until higher levels unless special circumstances warrant it. I play usta tournies at 4.5. Sometimes I play 3.0-3.5 level guys who slice 9/10 of their backhands. Why do they do it?? Because for most its an easier and lazier shot. I know for me it is. Slices are great but only under approach or defensive circumstances. Or maybe if you want to change pace. When you use it in a neutral ralley which I see all the time . . . gives the opponent the chance to dictate. I for one LOVE ripping at slices.
 

Frank Silbermann

Professional
When you hack down on the ball with heavy underspin it's a _chop_. Writers call them slices because they feel it is insulting to say that a player's stroke is a chop, but a chop is what it is when you hack down sharply.

The reason they feel the word "chop" has a negative connotation is that fifty years ago most players had only one backhand. The aggressive players tried to hit it flat, but often they could not avoid a bit of underspin -- these were called _slices_. Those who could _only_ hack down sharply with heavy underspin tended to lose in the early rounds to serve-and-volley players -- unless they could cover their backhands by getting to the net first. Hence, the chop was considered an "inferior" stroke, and to this day, no one wants to insult a pro by saying that it's what he hits.

Nowadays, however, the game is different. You have very few net-rushers, and even those players who chop many backhands have the capability of driving the ball when they must. The reason they chop instead of slicing is because with today's monster western forehands people figure that you must either bounce it hard with topspin _above_ their ideal strike zone, or float it softly _below_ the opponent's power zone. They don't dare hit a true slice, because it will enter the opponent's kill zone with decent-but-not-overpowering pace, and today's players will kill such a ball.

But if your opponent is at the net, or if your opponent _doesn't_ use an extreme grip that becomes weak with very low balls, then the slice is better than the chop. But that's not today's game.

The (relatively flat) slice may be the best all-around backhand if you can only hit it one way, but there is no situation in which it is the very _best_ shot. And for today's players, nothing but the best will do, whether it's a chop to an opponent's western groundstroke, or a topspin attack.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
when I correct people on this stroke, the first thing I tell them is to forget about the term 'slice'; the 2nd thing I ask them to do is to try to hit the ball with NO SPIN - ZERO..... all of a sudden they all produce this penetrating thing of beauty.

Hmmm. . . . This makes a lot of sense.

After all, when I hit a BH volley, I don't think about producing underspin. The underspin comes all by itself if I hit a penetrating shot.

I'll see if approaching the BH non-slice in this way will give me a decent shot.

Thanks!!!
 

dozu

Banned
a little bit of clarification -

there are actually 2 variaties of this shot - on the pro tour you see them also -

1) thru impact the wrist is released - this is the Federer type... adds more spin to the ball, but more difficult to learn, because you need to time the swing with the release of the wrist

2) fixed wrist - this is what I tell struggling players to do - basically you have a straight arm, and hold the racket about 90 degrees to the arm, so you have a big L, then just use the shoulder to swing the big L into the ball, with NO intention to create spin. a body turn is essential.... if the back of your right shoulder has an eye... that eye needs to 'see' the ball... the body turn also produce some tension in your back muscle, which is where the power comes from.. the shoulder is basically where the big L attaches to the power stored in your big back muscle. The swing path of the racket head feels very much on the same line as the intended ball flight, therefore this shot should be very stable, accurate and penetrating....... as opposed to a 'chop' shot, where the racket path and the ball flight form a big angle, and therefore quite difficult to time, and there is no power behind such a 'glancing blow'

Gonzo, Haas are 2 examples of this type. Ken Rosewall is the classic example.

-------------

notice when Gonzo/Haas/Rosewall at finish, the big L is still there... compare that to Federer, at the finish the L before the swing is no more at the finish, because the wrist is released.
 
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dozu

Banned
Take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXM3I9E4E8&feature=related

I think what your saying pertains well to beginners learning how to slice. Once you improve however the shot becomes more of a vertical (racket motion).

.


see my explanation of the 2 varieties of this shot - and i think we agree that the Federer type should not be taught to the player who doesn't know how to hit it yet.... not necessarily a beginner.... I see college players serving up backspin sitting ducks as well.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Yeah, Haas, Fed, NADAL, and every pro are just hackers!
Since they all use a heavy underspin one handed shot, on occasion, a SLICE, it's for sure a weak and attackable ball .... :):):)
And of course, you can beat them every time.
 

yellowoctopus

Professional
I see college players serving up backspin sitting ducks as well.

Guilty:oops:

Although, I still insist on using my, er, slices; simply because it varies the pace and the spin that I give my opponent. It is when I don't execute the shot well that I get the a**-whipping
 

coyfish

Hall of Fame
Doesn't really matter what type of "slice" you use. Once you get better it becomes more and more vertical than horizontal.

Look at mauresmo's. Maintains that 90 degrees through impact but the motion is still very up and down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx93slCtYfw&feature=related

I think a better way to classify slices are defensive or offensive. Defensive have a lot of backspain and often float up and deep to give recovery time. Most pro slices float a good foot over the net and land near the baseline. Lots of people love to pretend that if your slice doesn't touch the tape then it sucks. That is not to be confused with a slice that lands near the service line. Thats a bad slice thats asking for trouble.

The other type of slice is the offensive which is usually used as an approach shot. Less stress on backspin but more stress on keeping it low, deep, and "driving."
 

dozu

Banned
Look at mauresmo's. Maintains that 90 degrees through impact but the motion is still very up and down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx93slCtYfw&feature=related

this is exactly why amateurs get into trouble - fooled by the visual. In this clip.... pay attention to the racket path from start of the swing to the contact... it is very much inline with the intended ball flight. Mauresmo happned to be hitting a high incoming ball, and therefore the racket head travels only slightly from high to low until impact. After the impact, the human body determines that the arm has to go down (in this particular case).

Amateurs look at a video like this, and fooled into thinking that this is a vertical chop-down... actually it is not... when I teach people on dealing with the high balls, I tell them to feel that they are using the racket to 'press-down' the ball, again, with NO intention to create spin. The back spin again is a side-effect of the open racket face.

so look at this Gonzo clip, where he 'knock back' a chest high ball, with no intention for spin.. and the ball leaves with just a touch of underspin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qohK70lEIE8

Also.. in this Federer clip, watch at 0:45 when Kolshriber had to handle the low ball.... at the point of contact, the racket is actually from low to high thru the ball with an open face... why? because federer's ball is low and he had to hit UP... again, racket path matches the intended ball flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvY0qP4mCXg

Even if you look at Fed's shots, it's no different, the racket path is very close to the intended ball flight, especially on his 'driving slice', except he throws his wrist a little bit.

When I teach this shot to people, they always get improvement on the low balls first, because the low to high swing path easily gets rid of the chopping motion... on the high balls, they may have some problem to get rid of the chop, until I tell them to envision this 'press-down' sensation.

The other sensation I tell them to feel is the 'bite' thru impact - this 'bite' feel is caused by the temporary deflection of the string bed which the ball sinks into for a few milli sseconds at impact. This is not possible with a 'glancing blow' where the string bed simply rubs past the ball. The more the racket path matches the ball flight, the ball sinks into the string bed more, hence the more bite, or penetration..... the impact should feel 'heavy'.

Another drill I use to help people feel the 'no spin intention', is let them hit badminton backhands (using shuttles of course!), they instantly realize how pointless it is trying to chop at the bird :)
 
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Kevo

Legend
I think people have a hard time understanding spin in tennis because they think of actually turning the ball with racquet motion and not with the contact point.

You can hit a very hard driving ball with a chop motion as long as you don't contact the underside of the ball. What tends to happen is people think they need to roll the ball along the strings by dragging the strings along the bottom of the ball. This produces the moonball effect because of the contact location being underneath the ball.

Anyone who's played enough pool to understand how to apply english with a cue ball can understand this quite well. The direction of the ball is controlled by the racquet face angle and the point of contact. That's why you can hit a slice serve into the service box without actually swinging directly towards the service box.
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
I'll second that emotion... the slice bh can be really tricky to teach.

I grew up playing on grass courts and a solid slice was the first backhand I ever embraced, but no players around these days can much relate to it. Heck, it even looks like Andy Roddick only got kind of good at it this year!

This stroke isn't something that I think should be "retrofitted" into many games after players have gotten their fundamentals together. If someone decides on either a one or two handed backhand for topspin, the slice just gives that player a more complete skill-set. I'd say that it's so tough to teach because it demands that the student sort of forgets what they know for a half-hour as you work on it. If this stroke was looked upon as more of a fundamental, it wouldn't be such a big deal... and there might be some more consistent players out there, too...

...I have a dream!...
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Basically the term 'slice' has every player started on the wrong foot.

Beginners see the pros swing the stick from high to low, plus they see the back spin on the ball in super slow-mo, plus they call it the 'slice'...... so guess what... they literally slice the ball!

and what happens? they slice at it - i.e. chop at it... ball floats up, no pace, a sitting duck.

this stroke is not taught properly even at the Division I level - not to mention at the high school level, every kid I have hit with produce the exact choppy sitting duck with their slice.

I have only correct a small number of people on this stroke - people I know well enough so they don't take offense, or people who are willing to listen.

the teaching community, and the TV commentators, should all call it the backhand drive, the backhand 'knock', the backhand tap -what have you.

when I correct people on this stroke, the first thing I tell them is to forget about the term 'slice'; the 2nd thing I ask them to do is to try to hit the ball with NO SPIN - ZERO..... all of a sudden they all produce this penetrating thing of beauty.

of course even if the intention is to hit a ball with no spin - in reality the ball does come with underspin, because the impact is with an open racket face.

whoever invented the term 'slice' should be shot - that person definitely didn't know how to hit it properly... he probably just watched from the sidelines and went - hm, how should this shot be called.... because it looks like a high to low chop... let's call it the 'slice' !

the rest is history - millions of tennis fans played their whole lives without knowing why their 'slice' doesn't look like the 'slice' on TV !

You think BH drive is a better and less-confusing term than BH slice? A BH drive is a BH hit hard and flat... about the furthest you can get from a slice.

Instead of worrying about your students pairing the term slice to their own visual of what a slice is... simply show them the slice stroke variations.

A regular (i.e. waist high) slice is like carving out a shallow "C" in the air. The racquet goes from high to low and back to high in the shape of a "C"... if viewing from the side. Another visual is carving out a smile.

BTW, if pros are hitting a slice from high to low... that's only half the slice story. Explain to your students that occasionally a high BH slice requires hitting from high to low, only... since you can't get under the ball enough to "carve out the smile".

In racquet sports, this type of shot has always been called a slice. It's called a slice in ping pong, squash, racquetball, tennis, etc. So, tell us again why we should all change because a few of your students are hitting the stroke incorrectly?
 
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fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
BTW, I forgot to note this earlier, but I'd be willing to bet that the clip of Amelie Mauresmo's stroke is a short slice or even a drop shot. She's not driving through that ball at all. Is it just me?
 

fruitytennis1

Professional
Coyfish (I for one LOVE ripping at slices.)
Enjoy trying to hit my sidespin slice cough i mean drive... 3/5 times a person will just shank the ball.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Coyfish (I for one LOVE ripping at slices.)
Enjoy trying to hit my sidespin slice cough i mean drive... 3/5 times a person will just shank the ball.

I have a decent natural slice, too... with heavy sidespin. Love watching it bounce, slide and then take off to the receiver's right :)
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Basically the term 'slice' has every player started on the wrong foot.

Beginners see the pros swing the stick from high to low, plus they see the back spin on the ball in super slow-mo, plus they call it the 'slice'...... so guess what... they literally slice the ball!

and what happens? they slice at it - i.e. chop at it... ball floats up, no pace, a sitting duck.

this stroke is not taught properly even at the Division I level - not to mention at the high school level, every kid I have hit with produce the exact choppy sitting duck with their slice.

I have only correct a small number of people on this stroke - people I know well enough so they don't take offense, or people who are willing to listen.

the teaching community, and the TV commentators, should all call it the backhand drive, the backhand 'knock', the backhand tap -what have you.

when I correct people on this stroke, the first thing I tell them is to forget about the term 'slice'; the 2nd thing I ask them to do is to try to hit the ball with NO SPIN - ZERO..... all of a sudden they all produce this penetrating thing of beauty.

of course even if the intention is to hit a ball with no spin - in reality the ball does come with underspin, because the impact is with an open racket face.

whoever invented the term 'slice' should be shot - that person definitely didn't know how to hit it properly... he probably just watched from the sidelines and went - hm, how should this shot be called.... because it looks like a high to low chop... let's call it the 'slice' !

the rest is history - millions of tennis fans played their whole lives without knowing why their 'slice' doesn't look like the 'slice' on TV !

I agree with you that some terms need some better defining in this area.

I think the term slice is much like when used to define the serve, as they both have a degree of sidespin (as a couple of posters mentioned)
What we use when talking of slice, is like this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1a_-94peLE&NR=1
see how fed puts the side component to this shot? for us, this is the slice BH.
that sidespin is how you keep the ball from getting away and floating.

different from the chip BH. Our chip BH is more of a bunt, but does deliver some amount of that direct underspin. ON this one, you don't chop thru the same, as it will lead to the ball tending to float or sit up. It's more what you had in the Gonzo vid.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
First of all - sorry but for most people the slice is an easier shot. Yes they don't always get it right - but they don't always rip beautiful topspin backhands either...

Secondly the name is fine. Stop tilting at windmills..
 

thejoe

Hall of Fame
I don't think you realise how much this is going to help me. I was complaining only yesterday about my short, crap, floaty slice. Thanks.
 

Blake0

Hall of Fame
a little bit of clarification -

there are actually 2 variaties of this shot - on the pro tour you see them also -

1) thru impact the wrist is released - this is the Federer type... adds more spin to the ball, but more difficult to learn, because you need to time the swing with the release of the wrist

2) fixed wrist - this is what I tell struggling players to do - basically you have a straight arm, and hold the racket about 90 degrees to the arm, so you have a big L, then just use the shoulder to swing the big L into the ball, with NO intention to create spin. a body turn is essential.... if the back of your right shoulder has an eye... that eye needs to 'see' the ball... the body turn also produce some tension in your back muscle, which is where the power comes from.. the shoulder is basically where the big L attaches to the power stored in your big back muscle. The swing path of the racket head feels very much on the same line as the intended ball flight, therefore this shot should be very stable, accurate and penetrating....... as opposed to a 'chop' shot, where the racket path and the ball flight form a big angle, and therefore quite difficult to time, and there is no power behind such a 'glancing blow'

Gonzo, Haas are 2 examples of this type. Ken Rosewall is the classic example.

-------------

notice when Gonzo/Haas/Rosewall at finish, the big L is still there... compare that to Federer, at the finish the L before the swing is no more at the finish, because the wrist is released.

First off, slice is more of a touch and feel shot, kind of like the drop shot, but drop shot has a much more extreme touch and feel. The wrist release is more advanced, but is overall the same kind of slice as a slice with no wrist release in it. It just requires better timing and feel of the ball.

Theres a lot of variety in slices, but here are the basic 2.

The deep floater slice, these are the ones where you sort of chop down on the ball more, that go deep and sit up more then skid.

Then theres the shorter skidding slice, these are the ones you hit through the ball more, that usually tend to go shorter and skid.
 

dozu

Banned
I don't think you realise how much this is going to help me. I was complaining only yesterday about my short, crap, floaty slice. Thanks.

you are welcome.

Now that we get the terminology out of the way - let's just call it the BH drive - enough to distinguish from the topspin BH..... let's look at the progression to get you from hitting the floaty duck to a laser like drive shot.

Again - the key elements are intention on hitting with no spin, racket path matches close to the intended ball flight, good body turn (so you swing the arm-racket big L with your back muscle).

some drills you can use - hitting badminton backhands... the bird can't spin, therefore your brain will tell you not to try to create spin at all.

contact point - compared to the topspin 1hbh, the contact point is not quite as forward, because you want to feel the sensation that the ball comes in and sinks into the racket to create 'bite'.... just experiment.

now, here is the kicker - people who struggle with this shot has seen their sitting ducks floating so much, they generall have been chopping DOWN more and more, just to compensate the float. When they first learn from me, the balls start to get more penetrating, but most of them land short, or go straight into the net...... you have to realize, this is a GOOD thing. you are on the right path!

since you have been chopping down so much, once you get that 'bite', the balls have to go into the net... LOL :)

I generally just tell them, keep doing the samething, the brain will adjust over time, so the swing path will gradually flatten out, or even from low to high (on low balls).

As with anything, it takes practice - a few thousand balls should get you there... to make this shot a reliable weapon.

This shot is extremely beneficial for players from 4.0 down, or from 40 up... LOL :)

if you are 14 and can run around the court like rabbit, you can muscle back the 2hbh all day long, but if you are 40+, you will see the value of letting the left hand off the racket :) and get you an extra big step of reach...

and because this shot has the racket path matching the ball flight, it has great margin for error... in other words, if you hit a little early or late, the result is still acceptable.... as opposed to a topspin 1hbh or a chop-down slice, the racket goes thru a very different direction from where the ball wants to go, and therefore the optimal contact zone is much smaller.

now go out there and hit laser like low skidding drives and impress your friends :)
 

wihamilton

Hall of Fame
Pros back in the day (Ken Rosewall for example) hit through their slice backhands much more than they do today. Federer's slice typically has a significant high-to-low component.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvxvXaJ5HMs

Because pros hit so much harder today, coming through the ball on a slice backhand isn't necessary to hitting a penetrating shot. In fact, they'd probably hit the ball too hard / lose control. The more vertical swing plane allows pros to control the ball better and hit a slice that really bites when it bounces.

Edit: I think what dozu is saying -- come through the ball more -- can really help at the club level. The ball isn't moving nearly as fast so a more horizontal swing plane can work well.
 
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ttbrowne

Hall of Fame
this is exactly why amateurs get into trouble - fooled by the visual. In this clip.... pay attention to the racket path from start of the swing to the contact... it is very much inline with the intended ball flight. Mauresmo happned to be hitting a high incoming ball, and therefore the racket head travels only slightly from high to low until impact. After the impact, the human body determines that the arm has to go down (in this particular case).

Amateurs look at a video like this, and fooled into thinking that this is a vertical chop-down... actually it is not... when I teach people on dealing with the high balls, I tell them to feel that they are using the racket to 'press-down' the ball, again, with NO intention to create spin. The back spin again is a side-effect of the open racket face.

so look at this Gonzo clip, where he 'knock back' a chest high ball, with no intention for spin.. and the ball leaves with just a touch of underspin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qohK70lEIE8

Also.. in this Federer clip, watch at 0:45 when Kolshriber had to handle the low ball.... at the point of contact, the racket is actually from low to high thru the ball with an open face... why? because federer's ball is low and he had to hit UP... again, racket path matches the intended ball flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvY0qP4mCXg

Even if you look at Fed's shots, it's no different, the racket path is very close to the intended ball flight, especially on his 'driving slice', except he throws his wrist a little bit.

When I teach this shot to people, they always get improvement on the low balls first, because the low to high swing path easily gets rid of the chopping motion... on the high balls, they may have some problem to get rid of the chop, until I tell them to envision this 'press-down' sensation.

The other sensation I tell them to feel is the 'bite' thru impact - this 'bite' feel is caused by the temporary deflection of the string bed which the ball sinks into for a few milli sseconds at impact. This is not possible with a 'glancing blow' where the string bed simply rubs past the ball. The more the racket path matches the ball flight, the ball sinks into the string bed more, hence the more bite, or penetration..... the impact should feel 'heavy'.

Another drill I use to help people feel the 'no spin intention', is let them hit badminton backhands (using shuttles of course!), they instantly realize how pointless it is trying to chop at the bird :)

I'm going to disagree.


First: Mauresmo IS slicing the ball. The racket IS going from high to low in a slicing action. I know this because my slice is the same. My pro is trying to get me in the habit of hitting more thru the ball rather than more slice because it is a more consistant ball. But when I exaggerate my slice, it's tough. The pros, however, don't have to worry about this so the exaggerated motion from top to bottom.

Second: The Gonzo clip IS NOT a slice backhand. That actually looks like he is throwing up a lob or something. Not a slice.

Third: Fed is going from low to high on every shot. Differences are in the first clip's he is stopping his hitting arm a little short of the V that he usually makes. The "agressive" slice is done by a high to low action with more forward action and both of his arms end up in the V.

Fourth: Kolshriber has found himself trying to return Fed's slice that is severly hugging the ground. But his action is still a high to low. He hits the ball and his racket travels DOWN after he hits the ball. It's almost touching the ground before it comes up.

You may teach beginners that the easiest way to begin to hit the slice is to come more thru the ball, but for these clips showing pros hitting the ball, that not the case.
 

dozu

Banned
Pros back in the day (Ken Rosewall for example) hit through their slice backhands much more than they do today. Federer's slice typically has a significant high-to-low component.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvxvXaJ5HMs

Because pros hit so much harder today, coming through the ball on a slice backhand isn't necessary to hitting a penetrating shot. In fact, they'd probably hit the ball too hard / lose control. The more vertical swing plane allows pros to control the ball better and hit a slice that really bites when it bounces.

Edit: I think what dozu is saying -- come through the ball more -- can really help at the club level. The ball isn't moving nearly as fast so a more horizontal swing plane can work well.

I agree with this observation.... the swing path does vary a little based on the incoming ball's pace and spin... but we are venturing into more advanced territory that the struggling slicers cannot understand yet.... when club players have a solid foundation on this shot, they can experiment on what type of swing path creates the most bite.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Pros back in the day (Ken Rosewall for example) hit through their slice backhands much more than they do today. Federer's slice typically has a significant high-to-low component.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvxvXaJ5HMs

Because pros hit so much harder today, coming through the ball on a slice backhand isn't necessary to hitting a penetrating shot. In fact, they'd probably hit the ball too hard / lose control. The more vertical swing plane allows pros to control the ball better and hit a slice that really bites when it bounces.

Edit: I think what dozu is saying -- come through the ball more -- can really help at the club level. The ball isn't moving nearly as fast so a more horizontal swing plane can work well.

IMO, he is missing that the term slice deals with the side spin aspect, as it does in the serve. I had one of the old timer pros explain that to me. Underspin with a side component, hence slice.
 

dozu

Banned
IMO, he is missing that the term slice deals with the side spin aspect, as it does in the serve. I had one of the old timer pros explain that to me. Underspin with a side component, hence slice.

let's hope we don't confuse people who are trying to get rid of the chop...

again, the spin is never the intent. if you hit the outside of the ball to get it to go cross court, you can't help putting some side spin on it.

the intent is to create the bite. at the club leve.. 4.0 and down, the easiest way is to just let the racket go where you want the ball to go. There are a few post here saying that at more advanced level, the swing becomes more vertical... that maybe true, but the intent is never the spin.... it is the BITE.
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
let's hope we don't confuse people who are trying to get rid of the chop...

again, the spin is never the intent. if you hit the outside of the ball to get it to go cross court, you can't help putting some side spin on it.

the intent is to create the bite. at the club leve.. 4.0 and down, the easiest way is to just let the racket go where you want the ball to go. There are a few post here saying that at more advanced level, the swing becomes more vertical... that maybe true, but the intent is never the spin.... it is the BITE.

actually the slice spin is working outside to the inside as you bring the stroke across your body to avoid floating.
IMO, overall you are describing what we refer to as a chip, (like a bunt) where driving the path is more the intent than any spin amount. We mostly use this to "chip under" when you have them pulled wide and deep, by using a low, short chip to the other side of the court, causing them to chase not only across the court, but up shorter in the court too.

In this case, we would be in full agreement. That shot should not be called a slice, but instead called a chip, hence we have done away with that improper terminology. Most people use chip and slice interchangeably, and IMO that is incorrect. I was in hopes that this was the intent of your thread to sort this terminolgy out.
 

dozu

Banned
actually the slice spin is working outside to the inside as you bring the stroke across your body to avoid floating.
IMO, overall you are describing what we refer to as a chip, (like a bunt) where driving the path is more the intent than any spin amount. We mostly use this to "chip under" when you have them pulled wide and deep, by using a low, short chip to the other side of the court, causing them to chase not only across the court, but up shorter in the court too.

In this case, we would be in full agreement. That shot should not be called a slice, but instead called a chip, hence we have done away with that improper terminology. Most people use chip and slice interchangeably, and IMO that is incorrect. I was in hopes that this was the intent of your thread to sort this terminolgy out.


The above does make sense.
 
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