Abbreviated Service Motion

[Dan R]

I'm toying with changing my service motion from the traditional take back where you drop the racket down low, and then raise the serving arm up to the trophy position, and instead using an abbreviated motion similar to Roddick or Monfils. They draw the right elbow back, keeping the racket head above the waist, almost like drawing back the string of a bow - they move more directly into the trophy position. I'm hoping by simplifying the motion I can improve my timing and control - and it feels more natural to me. With the old motion I usually feel like the racket is wandering around lost somewhere behind my back, with the shorter motion I feel like the racket is cocked and I can trigger the release better as the ball drops into position. I'd be interested in hearing some pros and cons before I commit to taking the plunge.

Is there a clear preference for one or the other, or is this just a choice within an range of acceptable alternatives?

 

[xFullCourtTenniSx]

As long as you maintain a loose arm, it's just preference. The simplicity of an abbreviated motion helps some people fix small issues in their serves. For me, I had issues with too much upper body movement during the toss. Having an abbreviated body motion allowed me to simply focus on my toss instead of tossing and getting my racket in position (I had massive issues with toss consistency, now I have minor issues and am still slowly working on improving it). I still have a traditional motion, but it helped simplify the toss for me during practice. I like the more rhythmic feel of a traditional take back with a loose arm.

 

[Dan R]

Good point - I think it's probably easier to keep the arm relaxed when you have the racket hanging down. Keeping the racket up requires more tension in the arm, but I guess you have to relax as you drop. Someone once told me to serve like I was drunk, but then sober up just as I hit the ball.

 

[jm1980]

Good point - I think it's probably easier to keep the arm relaxed when you have the racket hanging down. Keeping the racket up requires more tension in the arm, but I guess you have to relax as you drop. Someone once told me to serve like I was drunk, but then sober up just as I hit the ball.

You need to be relaxed and loose getting to the trophy position and then just explode as you execute the racquet drop

 

[dimkin]

As long as you maintain a loose arm, it's just preference. The simplicity of an abbreviated motion helps some people fix small issues in their serves. For me, I had issues with too much upper body movement during the toss. Having an abbreviated body motion allowed me to simply focus on my toss instead of tossing and getting my racket in position (I had massive issues with toss consistency, now I have minor issues and am still slowly working on improving it). I still have a traditional motion, but it helped simplify the toss for me during practice. I like the more rhythmic feel of a traditional take back with a loose arm.

When my rythm is off I go to abbreviated, when I time my toss well - I go full ...

but then again I still haven't figured out my stance

 

[Chas Tennis]

I'm toying with changing my service motion from the traditional take back where you drop the racket down low, and then raise the serving arm up to the trophy position, and instead using an abbreviated motion similar to Roddick or Monfils. They draw the right elbow back, keeping the racket head above the waist, almost like drawing back the string of a bow - they move more directly into the trophy position. I'm hoping by simplifying the motion I can improve my timing and control - and it feels more natural to me. With the old motion I usually feel like the racket is wandering around lost somewhere behind my back, with the shorter motion I feel like the racket is cocked and I can trigger the release better as the ball drops into position. I'd be interested in hearing some pros and cons before I commit to taking the plunge.

Is there a clear preference for one or the other, or is this just a choice within an range of acceptable alternatives?

Look at Sharapova's serve. Look at Roddick's serve. Sharapova leaves out some of the earlier motion and goes to Trophy Position and waits for her toss to come down. Roddick goes to Trophy Position accelerating, doing external shoulder rotation (ESR) and building speed. Sharapova has none of that. High level servers use both methods to get to Trophy Position, see thread below.

I don't think that Roddick 'abbreviates' any of the important parts of the service motion. "Abbreviated serve" is a poorly defined term in most tennis usage. In addition, on one serve, I saw Roddick add a motion - some extra ISR before he starts the ESR to stretch the ISR muscles. It looked as if he added a small extra stretch shorten cycle(SSC)? (forearm & racket go down with some acceleration right before main ESR starts up.).

The question is - does Roddick have an 'abbreviated' service motion or does he add something?

Bigservesofthands had mentioned adding a little extra SSC to his unusual serving techniques. Maybe he can comment on those quick smaller SSCs that some servers might be using.

Thread with 'abbreviated' service motion discussions.
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...body-use-an-abbreviated-type-of-serve.549971/

 

[dgold44]

I switched to the Abbrev serve and find it much better. The timing on the traditional serve is very hard for some to grasp. The traditional serve has more pluses but also more negatives .

I start both arms around waist level and go up and try not to stop my hitting arm because that kills the shot.

 

[Power Player]

I find it is easier to have a loose arm when there is motion from the start. It creates momentum. A motion I copy is Raonic. I like having my grip towards the backhand like him and it's easy to do his takeback.

If you don't like his grip, a similar takeback is Berdych's.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I'm toying with changing my service motion from the traditional take back where you drop the racket down low, and then raise the serving arm up to the trophy position, and instead using an abbreviated motion similar to Roddick or Monfils. They draw the right elbow back, keeping the racket head above the waist, almost like drawing back the string of a bow - they move more directly into the trophy position. I'm hoping by simplifying the motion I can improve my timing and control - and it feels more natural to me. With the old motion I usually feel like the racket is wandering around lost somewhere behind my back, with the shorter motion I feel like the racket is cocked and I can trigger the release better as the ball drops into position. I'd be interested in hearing some pros and cons before I commit to taking the plunge.

Is there a clear preference for one or the other, or is this just a choice within an range of acceptable alternatives?

The timing that works best for me is a large separation between the toss and the windup with the racquet, and a windup that is long and gradually accelerating, with the largest possible arc ala Sampras and Edberg. However, most importantly, in my view, is for your toss to be in the right place, and to be set-up correctly at the peak of your toss. If you do that, how you got there is less important.

 

[dgold44]

The timing that works best for me is a large separation between the toss and the windup with the racquet, and a windup that is long and gradually accelerating, with the largest possible arc ala Sampras and Edberg. However, most importantly, in my view, is for your toss to be in the right place, and to be set-up correctly at the peak of your toss. If you do that, how you got there is less important.

No point in changing the classical serve if works as it's better

 

[oble]

I'm toying with changing my service motion from the traditional take back where you drop the racket down low, and then raise the serving arm up to the trophy position, and instead using an abbreviated motion similar to Roddick or Monfils. They draw the right elbow back, keeping the racket head above the waist, almost like drawing back the string of a bow - they move more directly into the trophy position. I'm hoping by simplifying the motion I can improve my timing and control - and it feels more natural to me. With the old motion I usually feel like the racket is wandering around lost somewhere behind my back, with the shorter motion I feel like the racket is cocked and I can trigger the release better as the ball drops into position. I'd be interested in hearing some pros and cons before I commit to taking the plunge.

Is there a clear preference for one or the other, or is this just a choice within an range of acceptable alternatives?

It's all personal preference to me. IMO, everyone has their own preference in timing various parts of the motion getting into the trophy pose, as long as it feels natural to what you and your body prefers to do to get there without screwing up your ball toss.

 

[jga111]

When I started to learn the serve properly (about 1.5 years ago) I started with an abbreviated motion, the trophy position.

Lately I've been studying the serve in more detail and experimenting with stance and various trophy setups. I have finally chosen a setup that I'm happy with.

My stance is platform where my feet stick to the ground and move very little. Pretty similar to Gasquet/Djokovic. My serve is no longer abbreviated. My whole game is based around rhythm and feel and I now toss before I start to raise my hitting arm. The hitting arm then motions with the racquet upwards before striking the ball with a loose shoulder. Like a pendulum, you learn to recognise the point when to do this at the point of maximising momentum. I find that Murray has a really good action in this way.

It's taken me ages to get here, and there is much improvement to be made, but I'm loving the new serve and will definitely see this one through.

 

[heninfan99]

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...body-use-an-abbreviated-type-of-serve.549971/

 

[sureshs]

However, most importantly, in my view, is for your toss to be in the right place, and to be set-up correctly at the peak of your toss.

All serve advice begins and ends with this, which is why most of it is of no use to rec players! A person who has a good toss also has an intrinsically better athleticism and balance, which makes the rest of his serve also good. So telling people to have a good toss is pointless, or at least that is what I have concluded.

 

[steve s]

Went this route when my shoulder was a problem. I now have a nice smooth motion with okay pop.

Now, if only the ball would go in the BOX.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I'm toying with changing my service motion from the traditional take back where you drop the racket down low, and then raise the serving arm up to the trophy position, and instead using an abbreviated motion similar to Roddick or Monfils. They draw the right elbow back, keeping the racket head above the waist, almost like drawing back the string of a bow - they move more directly into the trophy position. I'm hoping by simplifying the motion I can improve my timing and control - and it feels more natural to me. With the old motion I usually feel like the racket is wandering around lost somewhere behind my back, with the shorter motion I feel like the racket is cocked and I can trigger the release better as the ball drops into position. I'd be interested in hearing some pros and cons before I commit to taking the plunge.

Is there a clear preference for one or the other, or is this just a choice within an range of acceptable alternatives?

Note that there are simpler implementations of the abbreviated serve than those employed by Roddick and Monfils. They employ some elements that could make them a bit too challenging for some players. Take a look at the abbreviated motion of Jeff Salazenstein or Todd Martin. Look at motion that these guys developed late in their playing career or after they retired from the tour. Richard Gasquet has a pretty simple motion IIRC. Brady Heitte also has a decent instructional video on a simple abbreviated serve motion.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Jeff Salzenstein:
youtube.com/watch?v=HrU6C8eilkI&t=77s

Todd Martin:
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/martin_serve.php

 

[Todd Hicks]

I'm toying with changing my service motion from the traditional take back where you drop the racket down low, and then raise the serving arm up to the trophy position, and instead using an abbreviated motion similar to Roddick or Monfils. They draw the right elbow back, keeping the racket head above the waist, almost like drawing back the string of a bow - they move more directly into the trophy position. I'm hoping by simplifying the motion I can improve my timing and control - and it feels more natural to me. With the old motion I usually feel like the racket is wandering around lost somewhere behind my back, with the shorter motion I feel like the racket is cocked and I can trigger the release better as the ball drops into position. I'd be interested in hearing some pros and cons before I commit to taking the plunge.

Is there a clear preference for one or the other, or is this just a choice within an range of acceptable alternatives?

In reference to your post, bringing your serving arm behind your head while you toss the ball will put good natural spin on the ball and make it veer sharply to the left if you serve right-handed. Just make sure you keep this serve in the proper server's box.

 

[Dan R]

Jeff Salzenstein:
youtube.com/watch?v=HrU6C8eilkI&t=77s

Todd Martin:
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/martin_serve.php

The Salzenstein video is very close to what I have in mind- thanks for posting. I think that's a good example to copy. I actually got the idea of trying the abbreviated motion from watching a slo mo replay of Carson Wentz during the Eagles/Vikings game and wondering if that kind of motion would work for a tennis serve. Of course football and baseball players don't have the timing issues that tennis players have because in those sports they start with the ball in hand. However, the throwing motion is similar.

 

[Chas Tennis]

What is abbreviated, left out or reduced, in a serve to make it 'abbreviated' in your usage?

I'd say that those high level servers that start or pause at Trophy Position have abbreviated some of the earlier bimomechanically meaningful motions and therefore have an 'abbreviated' motion. Compare serving videos of Sampras and Sharapova.

But then Roddick is often said to have an 'abbreviated motion' and he is flying through Trophy Position.

Each body position has a state of velocities, muscle lengths, stretched muscles and activated muscles. The velocity shows in video if you can interpret the 2D video to give you 3D space. The states of muscles are not possible to see in videos. When someone starts from Trophy Position the velocities are very low, how are the stretched muscles?, the legs are probably stretched, which muscles are activated and when?. Usually you can figure out what the main stretch shorten cycles (SSCs) are. The elbow being forward or back often relates to lag and muscle stretching. Try to identify the SSCs that may be occurring. I hardly thought about the SSCs in my life before the last few years. Now I think they are the most important thing for athletics.

If the ball is tossed by flicking the wrist and keeping the arm still is that an abbreviated serving motion?

 

[Dan R]

What is abbreviated, left out or reduced, in a serve to make it 'abbreviated' in your usage?

I'd say that those high level servers that start or pause at Trophy Position have abbreviated some of the earlier bimomechanically meaningful motions and therefore have an 'abbreviated' motion. Compare serving videos of Sampras and Sharapova.

But then Roddick is often said to have an 'abbreviated motion' and he is flying through Trophy Position.

Each body position has a state of velocities, muscle lengths, stretched muscles and activated muscles. The velocity shows in video if you can interpret the 2D video to give you 3D space. The states of muscles are not possible to see in videos. When someone starts from Trophy Position the velocities are very low, how are the stretched muscles?, the legs are probably stretched, which muscles are activated and when?. Usually you can figure out what the main stretch shorten cycles (SSCs) are. The elbow being forward or back often relates to lag and muscle stretching. Try to identify the SSCs that may be occurring. I hardly thought about the SSCs in my life before the last few years. Now I think they are the most important thing for athletics.

If the ball is tossed by flicking the wrist and keeping the arm still is that an abbreviated serving motion?

I didn't coin the term, so I don't know if it has a precise definition. I believe it refers to what happens between the start of the swing and trophy position, not after. In the traditional swing (if that's what it's called) the racket drops down and travels in a loop back up to the trophy position. In the abbreviated swing the racket goes more directly to trophy omitting at least partially the loop, although most examples still have the racket poised just below the trophy position so there is still some movement up into trophy and down into the back scratch position. I'm sure there's a lot of variation, but I think we are talking differences in degree rather than in kind.

 

[Chas Tennis]

................................ I believe it refers to what happens between the start of the swing and trophy position, not after. In the traditional swing (if that's what it's called) the racket drops down and travels in a loop back up to the trophy position. In the abbreviated swing the racket goes more directly to trophy omitting at least partially the loop, although most examples still have the racket poised just below the trophy position so there is still some movement up into trophy and down into the back scratch position. I'm sure there's a lot of variation, but I think we are talking differences in degree rather than in kind.

Pete Sampras serve. Builds up external shoulder rotation rate (ESR) prior to Trophy Position which is just a momentary position - like all others but that it looks like a tennis trophy (and has some biomechanical function when other motions occur, leg thrust, trunk turn, etc.). Say that ESR rotates roughly 90 d. up to TP in an arch.

Red arrow indicates the biomechanically significant motion leading to Trophy Position. Pete has it and Maria does not. Blue angles - Upper arm straight out from the body as Ellenbecker discusses and elbow bent.

Maria Sharapova serve. She goes to Trophy Position with little ESR rotation rate and stops to wait for her high toss to drop. She has not built up ESR speed at TP. I'd call that abbreviated because she has left out motions that we can see in Sampras's serve in the above video.

Since Maria's serve is a high level serve and she leaves out all racket movements before Trophy Position, do you think that those motion are significant? I'd say that what Sampras does has biomechanical value in adding ESR rotation rate and with a bent elbow some forearm and racket head speed. Is that a 5 or 10% addition to serve pace? ??

Andy Roddick's serve. Now, who's serve is Roddick's serve most similar to?

 

[Power Player]

In far less words, keep it simple. At least at first.