Absolute 1st time stringer... what do I need to know?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by krisdrum, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    Just make sure you start and end the weave for the 1st and last weaves correctly. For example, if you start over the 1st main, you should end under the last main. If not, you have a miss weave. Just do a quick look to make sure you did not mis weave twice. You can also do a finger over the cross. It will become automatic to check unless you're drunk, watching the TV instead or suffering from lack of sleep.

    If you are doing an ATW variant, where you end the last main depends on how you are doing the ATW. But most will start and end the mains over or under. If you do a Box pattern where all the mains are installed, then the 1st paragraph applies.
     
  2. gmatheis

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    In general as long as you end opposite of what you start (start under and end over) you are usually fine. You would have to have a double misweave and those are usually pretty obvious.
     
  3. NuBas

    NuBas Hall of Fame

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    Yeah I always end up opposite of previous string when starting and ending but I do worry that I might misweave somewhere in the middle. I was wondering if there is like a technique to quickly check other than looking at it to see if its under/over. I tried running my finger across the weave to sort of feel for a misweave but that's just something I tried and not really done it often to use it as a technique for checking.
     
  4. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    One mis weave and your weaves at the 1st and last mains will be the same. 2 mis weaves and your weaves will appear to be right which is why I just run a finger over the weave. You can feel the ups/downs and identify why you are missing an up/down very quickly. You can also do a quick glance, but you said this takes too long. If you look, don't do it looking down. Bring your head down to the plane of the string bed. it is easier to see mis weave that way. But I just run my finger over the woven string.
     
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  5. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You should be able to see if there is a misweave stringing one ahead pretty easily. ON The one ahead should should see a a fairly straight string turn to peaks and valleys as you tension.
     
  6. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    I run my finger over the string to feel the peaks and valleys and do a quick visual inspection. I also try to ensure I am keeping track as I weave. Each step may slow me down slightly, but I am getting faster at weaving, so it can't be too much of a drag on my time.
     
  7. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Watch at 2:30 in this video:
     
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  8. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Here is another method to check for miss weaves. Never string ore than one ahead. After you tension a string run your tinger across the mains. If there is a miss weave the tone of the string will be higher on the one you missed because the two strings on each side hold the cross up off the main. If the non tensioned cross is not touching the main the pitch of the mossed main string will be noticeable higher. Go slowlly as you strum the strings so you don't miss the miss weave.
     
  9. CosmosMpower

    CosmosMpower Professional

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    You could mess up twice along the way and be correct on either end...just saying.

    After you string for a while you can just glance at the string bed at a shallow angle and it will be obvious if something is off.
     
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  10. buckeye_man18

    buckeye_man18 New User

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    I just quickly run my finger along the length of the string to feel the "bump" of every other weave.
     
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  11. jwocky

    jwocky New User

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    NuBas:

    You could view the string bed at a fine angle (i.e. along the string bed) and spot any missed weaves.

    - from throat to head (or vice versa) and see something like this. Can you spot the missed weave on that badminton racquet?

    - from 7 o'clock to 2 o'clock (or 5 o'clock to 11 o'clock) and you should see a pattern like this as you go along or on completion (it is the second picture in this talktennis thread).

    EDITED - changed from krisdrum to NuBas
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  12. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    Thanks, think this is for @NuBas. I'm pretty comfortable with double checking my weave at this point.

    And yes, able to spot the misweave on the badminton racquet and the 2nd and 3rd cross on that Prince.
     
  13. NuBas

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    Thanks that is what I was asking a quick method to check.
     
  14. NuBas

    NuBas Hall of Fame

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    I am a new stringer myself and just started a couple weeks ago. Initially I was apprehensive about stringing but I just went for it without doing much prep work other than watching a few videos, reading few posts, and looking up photos of my racquet strung. I found it to be very rewarding and the only difficult thing was the slight learning curve. It was easier than I expected and here at things I stumbled with in the beginning:

    1. Learning how to operate the stringer (mounting, drop weight, etc)
    2. How to initially clamp the starting strings
    3. Weaving, mostly because time consuming
    4. Tying off the knots

    Not much actually, you just have to find out your racquets skipped holes which I just went to Klippermate's website and where to begin on your racquet. After that the mains are very much straight forward and simple, tying off the knots being most annoying at the end. Stringing itself was easy and avoiding skipped grommets was easy, only annoying thing about stringing are the knots but that gets easier obviously. The most difficult I would say is learning how to operate the stringing machine and flying clamps which was time consuming. Overall I took over 2 hours initially and now can do it just under 2 hours which isn't too terrible at all for first time stringer doing poly.

    I'd say if you are handy like another poster mentioned or are good with your hands then its a very useful skill to learn.

    I do have a question though, how tight do I have to tighten the clamps cause once it was so tight the strings kind of deformed. Also when doing crosses I noticed I couldn't get the clamps to go all the way down/through and only clamp on the ends of the 'teeth'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  15. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    If you leave dents on the strings, clamps are too tight. Ghosting on NG or soft multis are normal. You will learn as you string how much pressure is required to close clamps without denting strings. Clamping crosses is normal to only use teeth. Mains are in the way.
     
  16. NuBas

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    Yeah I tend to tighten more when I see the clamps moving a bit after letting go of tension but I now know better than to make dents in the strings.
     
  17. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    That is drawback and is normal. When you pull the next main or cross, just make sure the clamp goes back into position. Since you use a DW?, just wiggle the tensioned string to transfer the tension around the turn to the clamped string. Takes 2 seconds.
     
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  18. jwocky

    jwocky New User

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    NuBas:
    One way to learn is to experiment.

    Find a way to note how tight you are setting the clamps you have (number of screw turns - depends on your clamp make).

    Cut off a test string - some small length four to six clamp widths - from whatever remnants/sets/reels you have and be systematic.

    Now, start at the loosest setting where you feel the clamp just about to grab the string, and mark a thin line on the clamp screw and the clamp body with nail polish or marking pen. From here observe what fraction of a screw turn is needed for the clamp to grip that specific string (brand, model, gauge, color - better would be a batch #) without marking the string. If you release the clamp and there is a mark loosen the setting slightly.

    Remember that the string is not under tension in the experiment. For actual stringing, you will need the clamp setting to be "a bit" tighter than this experimental clamp setting. Why? This is because under tension the string will stretch, which means the diameter will narrow. How much it narrows will depend on the ref tension as well the string specimen (brand, model, gauge, color, batch, etc).

    Keep notes!! Happy experimenting.

    It is way too early, so I may have typos or logic errors above. Please excuse them or I will correct them later.
     
  19. NuBas

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    Hmm great advice! Not sure if I am understanding well enough but I guess I could try your method and maybe hand pull to see if the string slips or whatnot and about marketing the clamp, I could mark a place on the dial a certain color for certain strings so that I can turn the knob to the correct color when I do a certain string.

    You've been giving me good examples thanks a lot! When I tighten the clamp, I don't do it loosest to just enough to grab, instead I tend to do it grab tight to begin with where I actually feel it really grabbing. Maybe I gotta go down a bit and just have it enough to grab instead of being so tight. Will experiment.
     
  20. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Believe it or not that is really easy. A 16 main racket usually skips 7$9 and / or 8. An 18 main racket usually skips 8$10 and / or 9. Simple as that.

    Let's assume you have a 16 main racket. If there is going to be a skip(s) they are going to be for a cross string(s.) mains are usually fairly evenly spaced so the grommet for a skipped hole will be closed to the two grommets on each side.

    Pay attention next time when stringing mains on a 16 main racket. After string the center 12 mains stop and look carefully. Sometimes it helps to rung in the outer 2 mains with no tension and look at the spacing. Does it look right? Try it just to see how easy it is.

    EDIT: I never look up patterns any more. All I need to know is the tension I need to string.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  21. krisdrum

    krisdrum Rookie

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    I went the opposite when I started, had my clamps just grabbing and they were too loose. I figured out within the first few jobs that I was getting slippage, since my measured tensions were way off compared to what I was pulling as reference tension. I tightened the clamps up and things got better. It is a fine line. You want the clamps to grip and not slip under tension, but you don't want them so tight they deform the string. jwocky's suggested experiment and observation should give you a better feel for that.
     
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  22. NuBas

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    Awesome, I did notice that pattern when looking a pictures of both string patterns, good to know its that simple. Right now only comfortable stringing my own but one day I might offer to string a friend's racquet.
     
  23. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Hall of Fame

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    As the kids say now-a-days...Like a Boss!
     
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  24. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    I strongly suggest you continue to look up stringing patterns. Plain old vanilla 16x19 and 18x20 you can guess at. You do not want to guess with over sized FAN shaped patterns. I do a lot of those from Wilson and Head (115-135 in^2) and they are not the same. I recently did a Ti.S6 which had been strung wrong by the prior stringer (not me.) You should also be aware that certain frames changed their skip mains and so you need to be aware of the frame's vintage.
     
  25. NuBas

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    I think I am getting better at weaving crosses, I used to try to weave without 'disturbing' the mains but now I see that I can sort of push on the mains to get my weaves through faster. I have another 2 questions though:

    1. So my racquet starts from the throat and the first two strings that I thread through before any tension pulled, I clamp those two strings with flying clamp. Taking one of those strings I thread through next grommet (third main) and then that is the first string I pull tension. Is that correct? I am sure its correct but for some reason after finishing mains, the 2 center strings always feels loose and when plucking it doesn't even make a high ping like other strings.

    2. When tying off the finishing knot for the mains on either right or left side, I noticed with poly there is some slack with the string on the outside of the grommet, you know when you pull to tie the knot, I always find that there is slack no matter how hard I try to pull so it sits super flush with the grommet/frame. Letting go of tension after tying the knot does take away some slack but I was wondering if there is a solution to that or is it just the way it is?

    Thanks everyone
     
  26. CosmosMpower

    CosmosMpower Professional

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    For #1 watch this video.

    or this one start at 1:40

    For #2. You can pull the slack out of the outside of the frame and stick a wooden toothpick or if you're careful an awl into the hole from the outside to hold the tension then tie your knot. You can also make sure you pull all the slack out and hold the tension while you rock the string back towards the frame to hold the tension and cinch the knot.
     
  27. NuBas

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    Thanks I've watched those videos long time ago and the first vid is different stringer, mine is drop weight flying clamp. Anyway thanks
     
  28. jwocky

    jwocky New User

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    Key is starting mains with flying clamps, so watch this. Should have been an easy G*le search.
     
  29. Wes

    Wes Rookie

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    @CosmosMpower
    Those really aren't particularly helpful, since @NuBas mentioned using flying clamps.

    Best method(s) for starting mains are going to be dependent on several factors.
    Fixed clamps vs. floating clamps... 6pt., 4pt., or 6pt. mounting... whether one has a starting clamp available to use or not... etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  30. jwocky

    jwocky New User

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  31. NuBas

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    I think Wes was referring to the comment prior to yours but I have seen a bit of that video you linked. I guess I need to look into getting starting clamp.

    @jwocky OK I watched the entire video this time and looks like he gave 3 really useful ways to do it and I guess I did do it correctly using the last method shown. Very helpful thanks! I will try other methods or just be more careful with the way I've been doing it cause always the center two strings don't make high pitched ping when plucked.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  32. jwocky

    jwocky New User

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    @NuBas - see above video from 2:23 mark, and use your second flying clamp where Irvin uses a starting clamp. You MAY need to adjust the flying clamp to be "slightly" tighter or, depending on your string type, place a wide enough piece of overgrip (or a business card or scrap leather) over the string before clamping outside the frame.
     
  33. NuBas

    NuBas Hall of Fame

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    Yeah thanks when I have a starting clamp I will do that but just randomly now watching vids found this video @ 2:05 mark which answered my slack question lol

     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
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  34. every7

    every7 Hall of Fame

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    Good luck with it. Once you have the equipment and have a few test runs it really becomes second nature, particularly if you're only stringing your own racquets and are used to the pattern(s).

    I bought a crappy Klippermate machine a few years ago and was daunted by the process but it really is very easy, even on a simple machine.
     
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  35. NuBas

    NuBas Hall of Fame

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    Yeah just waiting for a reel of Isospeed Baseline to be in stock and I'm gonna string like no tomorrow.
     
  36. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    For #1 that's normal and happens to everyone. After weaving all the mains the racket has been shortened and the length of the center mains is shorter giving you a Thur when you strum them. After stringing the crosses the racket side being pulled in stretches the frame back to normal length but at that time you can no longer strum the center mains.

    For #2 that's fairly normal specially when using flying clamps. As you clamp the outer main the clamp twists because of drawback which makes it even worse. Next time you string a racket and are ready to tie off the outer main instead of using your flying clamp take the flying clamp off and hold the outer main with a starting clamp. You may want to put a clothespin between the clamp and frame to protect the frame.

    Now finish the other side and use both flying clamp on that side with the flying clamps as close together as you can get them. This will help with drawback especially if you can use a Yonex loop. After inserting the tag end in the tie off grommet hand pull the string from the inside and place a toothpick in the grommet hole to hold the string in. This keeps tension on the string you're tying off. If you have a tight grommet you may not need the toothpick.
     
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  37. NuBas

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    Slightly off topic and don't wanna start thread but does anyone have experience using power pads and how they differ from dampeners?
     
  38. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Power pads were 1st used on wooden racquets back in the day. I used them back then as on wooden racquets the 1st main strings took a sharp bend near the openings for the strings to go through as there were no open throat woodens back then.
    The pads allowed the strings to enter the openings a little straighter so less likely of string to snap.
    This was the main reason for the use.All wooden racquets back then had them installed, and were typically replaced when strung.

    Today, the only time I would use is on some racquets were stringing with nat. gut where there would be a tendency for the string to snap near a grommet, and also I use them on some Prince Speedport racquets as on the Speedports the throat piece grommet is the only thing supporting the string in the throat area, as the actual racquet frame does not, and as result the string on those racquets can and do over time pull through the throat grommet, so the power pads gives some extra protection so less likely to pull through.
    From my personel use of them they do not dampen as much, as the string dampner will cause the sound to be muted, but I have not noticed the sound change with pads.
    I have really not noticed any significant feel or change with pads on the lower main strings.
    Most of the time pads are really not necessary, but they really don't hurt to use if that's what you like.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  39. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I buy leather off the auction site and cut them into strips then use side cutters to cut off pads. Some claim they deaden the sound of the string and they don't need dampeners. I've used them and think they are nothing like dampeners.
     
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  40. NuBas

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    That's interesting. I know it may not be the case but was hoping they would somehow enlarge the sweetspot plus dampen as dampeners do. I might try them at one point and I'm guessing its something I must experience for myself but just wondering how others feel about it if they have used it before and went back to dampeners or vice versa.
     
  41. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  42. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    Thx! That's good tip.

    I've been weaving straight across.
     
  43. NuBas

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    Hey guys is the same amount of strings used to string 16x19 gonnna be the same for 18x20, 40 feet? Also what is an acceptable amount of string that is gonna be wasted cause I want to minimize wasting strings but also obviously need enough to pull tension with or else it won't even reach the tension puller. Not sure if relevant but question is for 2 piece string method.
     
  44. Wes

    Wes Rookie

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    40' is almost always more than you will need, especially for a 16x19.
    If you're cutting from a reel...

    Quick reference formula:
    (length of mains x number of mains) + (length of cross x number of crosses) + (length to reach tensioner 2, or 4, more times) = total inches needed.
    Divide inches needed by 12 to calculate feet needed.

    For the detailed explanation, see post #5 here:
    https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...-length-of-string-needed.504455/#post-8494810

    If you tell me how many mains, how many crosses, the measured length of the longest main & longest cross - I'll show you the calculations.
    Also, what type of string(s) are you planning to use?
     
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  45. NuBas

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    Thanks yeah I am using poly from reel
     
  46. Wes

    Wes Rookie

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    Most polys don't stretch very much (compared to most other strings), so you shouldn't count on gaining any real length throughout the stringing process.

    So, it's an 18x20, correct?
    How many inches long (from outside of frame to outside of frame) is the longest (central) main?
    And same question for the longest cross?
     
  47. Wes

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    Delete.
    Double post.
     
  48. NuBas

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    Well I just learned the hard way. There wasn't enough string doing the last mains to reach my drop weight, I had to redo mains and waste strings. I should start measuring more accurately cause right now I'm using an unorthodox way of measuring my strings. Also to mention towards the end of my string jobs I waste around 12-24 inches of string cause I need some length to reach my drop weight grabber knob.
     
  49. Wes

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    @NuBas
    If you had answered the questions that I asked above (BEFORE marching ahead), I would have told you how much to use for the mains & crosses (and shown how I calculated the amounts).
    Not really sure why you chose to proceed, without a full understanding of what you were doing.
    Sorry to hear you now wasted string.

    If you'll provide the measurements, I'll show you the correct way to calculate it.
     
  50. NuBas

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    Yeah thanks I was half planning on stringing and didn't see your post and decided to do it today. I'll try to get measurements later and I wasn't too bummed about the string cause I took a risk I knew.
     

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