ACC tennis
- Thread starter Clemson_tennis
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That’s a maxi of 4.5 on the mens side, not a given. Many teams have fewer……
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silentkman
Professional
c'mon man, Tennis is a loss leader. I think a handful of teams (Stanford?) are self sufficient. a big crowd at a tennis match would maybe 1,000, plus its free. where is the money coming from?
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
Boosters and gifts straight to the team. Plus camp money. University of Minnesota historically had The Baseline Cub - which was a booster organization for tennis. Men's tennis still got axed during Covid. I don't think The Baseline Club ever paid all the costs for the men's and women's teams, but supplemented the money from the school. Some individual athletic program's boosters at a given school might make up a bigger percentage of the costs/budget. When Minnesota axed tennis and some other sports, I think there was an offer by someone or group of people to give a certain amount of money so the the programs or at least some of them could continue. The school still axed the programs.
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silentkman
Professional
Good info. I wonder what the men's enrollment at the school is? it sounds like a Title IX issue.
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
Very well could be. Title IX compliance isn't a one-time thing, but a continuous process. I'm not saying it definitely was a Title IX issue, just acknowledging that it could be a part of it.
silentkman
Professional
its 54% female at the school. I've heard of schools cutting programming because it just costing too much. At ODU, wrestling was cut because it cost 2 million a year. Remember football takes up 85 slots.
I see that he played his first dual match of the season in the round of 32 against Florida, leading 7-6, 4-5 against Siimar when the dual match ended.
Seth
Legend
FSU looked strong against UGA today. Doubles was quality.
Singles play was interesting. Most courts got it done for FSU, but some shaky starts. Antoine wrecked UGA’s #1, Quinn, in the first set. Second set Quinn got a second wind, but eventually lost it in two. Great match. Glad college tennis back in Tallahassee.
Singles play was interesting. Most courts got it done for FSU, but some shaky starts. Antoine wrecked UGA’s #1, Quinn, in the first set. Second set Quinn got a second wind, but eventually lost it in two. Great match. Glad college tennis back in Tallahassee.
Memphis v. Duke today. I believe the match starts at 6 PM EST. Memphis had a strong showing last weekend at the Yale Invitational. This will a real test for the Tigers. #GoTigersGo !
marco forehand
Semi-Pro
Seems like NC State is ready to disrupt the hierarchy of ACC women's tennis long term. Expect the match ups with Duke, UNC and UVA to be intense.
Duke men dropped a 4-3 match against Northwestern. Probably time for another contract extension for the Duke coach.
https://colleges.wearecollegetennis...corecard/B8EC39AB-2DC6-4BCC-82C2-339F59C170CB
https://colleges.wearecollegetennis...corecard/B8EC39AB-2DC6-4BCC-82C2-339F59C170CB
optimaltennis
Rookie
Saying long term, that is a little much. For this season, sure. It is now much, much harder to climb into the top tier of college tennis, where you consistently advance to Elite 8 or Final 4 of NCAAs, than 15 years ago. To me, the top tier of college teams will contend for the NCAA title most year, say 7-8 out of 10 years. Many teams will often have one or two incredible years, followed by a regression to the mean. For example, OU mens had a run of couple amazing years with Axel, Harris, Guilea, etc, but are now back in that 15-30 ranking. A solid achievement, but not necessarily contenting for titles. On the flip side, UNC women's were a solid, but uninspiring team in mid 2000s, but are in that top tier.
As for this current season, NC State should challenge Duke/UNC for the top of ACC. Duke and UNC are both super talented and deep, with virtually no drop off from 2-6 as everybody has elite players at line 1. NC State getting Nell Miller back would be massive as she brings elite doubles and experience in singles. UNC gets the edge as they host both Duke and NC State during the regular season. Additionally, don't sleep on UVA and Miami. Miami is missing Khodan from last year, otherwise, I would put them with Duke/UNC/NC State. UVA has a lot of skill down along with great talent up top.
marco forehand
Semi-Pro
I have not had a chance to watch ACC matches in person in recent years.
I did stream a number of matches (National indoors last year I watched multiple teams.
The thing that stood out to me in regards to NC State was their approach to doubles, which was very aggressive on all three courts.
Maybe I over value a coach having an approach and recruiting players who can play that way. If there is a wide disparity in talent most likely that will win out.
Not a NC State fan just noticing the improved talent in their line up and seeing signs of a decent coach.
I did stream a number of matches (National indoors last year I watched multiple teams.
The thing that stood out to me in regards to NC State was their approach to doubles, which was very aggressive on all three courts.
Maybe I over value a coach having an approach and recruiting players who can play that way. If there is a wide disparity in talent most likely that will win out.
Not a NC State fan just noticing the improved talent in their line up and seeing signs of a decent coach.
Liam Grennon
Professional
UVA player getting hooked at #6 singles:
This season, yes. Long term, not so sure. Shnaider is a one-time deal. Wanted to get out of Russia with the bans on Russian players at the time she committed.
agree with some of the Twitter responses stating most likely a retribution hook, unless the dude is a true sociopath
but what’s the point in a Radford vs UVA match, need a hundred of those to change outcome
Not a fan of retaliation calls. With all the coaches there, he could have asked for his match to be watched if he thought he was being egregiously hooked. That and he did it with a camera on his court = lack of awareness on many levels.
I played mediocre mid-major tennis, I suppose about like Radford. I also did a post-retirement volunteer assistant coaching gig, also at a mid-major. I wouldn't want that kid on my team, and I don't give a rat's ass what the other guy did. This is not how you solve a problem. Nobody's turning pro here. Good luck explaining this in your non-tennis job interview.
This is on the coaches, the Radford Coach, should have stepped in and overturned the call, by allowing his player to do this shows an moral and ethical problem with the coaching staff and team. I have seen this happen, reflects on poorly on the coaches and the team
on coaches and whoever decided to have a D1 team match without chair umpires, recipe for disaster any day of the week
every season we see egregious calls made WITH chair umpires, could’ve predicted this kind of thing without them
to be fair, appears there was a rover on the court next door, but was turned.
Now having done hundreds of matches with just 2 or 3 officials, the excessive cheating is only seen once in a blue moon and most know who those teams are, but what I saw on the video was pretty pathetic display, but who knows what happened leading up.
jrtennisparent
New User
According to the Radford player's sister (on Twitter) the UVA kid (Woodall) had hooked several times leading up to that.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
I don't get it about "cheating" or "hooking" in tennis matches. Before I cheat, I am going to ask myself: 1- Am I going to get any benefits from winning the match other than bragging rights? 2- Is it going to change my life for the better? 3- and this is the most important one, is it going to improve my academic or financial standing? In other words, am I going to gain anything financially? When I said financially, I mean a few million dollars, big enough for me to "cheat" or "hook" a call.
Since the answer is a resounding "no", why bother to cheat on a college tennis match? It tells me that the kid is not very bright and has no common sense.
hmmm... could have just been close calls and the player did not like it, out right cheating is honestly rare even in the unofficiated/roved matches. More players just do not like a close call 50/50 on who was correct.
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I see the "sisters" comment, I call BS, because if it was 3 calls then the player and coach should of had the official on the court to watch. That the player did not get an official to watch the court for 2 games, tells me 1 he did not want the official or 2 needs a better coach to inform him to get an official if this happened
Couldn't agree more. And in the age of viral video, if I'm this kid I'd go into every job interview wondering if the person on the other side of the desk might bring it up, and how I could possibly defend what I did. In a business interview, being a former D1 college athlete is a real selling point- particularly if you have no practical job experience to talk about. This guy turned his one (theoretically, anyway) source of potential differentiation into an issue that raises serious character questions. The only way to dig the hole deeper would be to explain that "the other kid hooked me three times". Maybe if he stays around for grad school, he can fall back on the internet's short attention span.
If it comes up, best thing that kid can say is he made a huge mistake. That and write a letter to UVA and his opponent apologizing. Tennis be damned, hope he sees this and publicly tries to right his wrong.
Right. You and I both know a few coaches that would have overturned it. I know one coach that may have even taken more drastic measures such as defaulting them as the toughest punishment, or on an easier side pulling them from the next match.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Why would UVA schedule "cupcake" Radford on its schedule? It seems ridiculous to me that UVA has Radford on its schedule. I guess beating VATech is not enough so it decided to put Radford, which is less than 25 minutes away from VATech. It is like Novak Djokovic playing some unknown ITF challenger.
On the other hand, what this kid did was bad but it is nowhere near that a former UVA alum Michael Shabaz did in the NCAA tournament. Anyone remember that? People in the DMV still talk about it after all these years.
Could have been the UVA coach doing an instate mid-major a favor playing them. There's also additional benefits such as playing guys who don't see much playing time, allowing players to work on strategies and tactics in real match situations with the likelihood of still winning, etc.
It's far from unusual for a top ranked team to have a smaller school visit them at home for an easy win. What would be unusual is if UVA played at Radford or away against an unranked non-P5 school.
As for Shabaz, he publicly recognized his terrible error in judgement and apologized. Doesn't make what happened right, but he at least he tried to say he was sorry. http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.com/2011/05/shabaz-retires-from-ncaa-semifinal.html
The last coach I worked under would have removed the kid from the court immediately. He routinely overruled his own players if he directly witnessed a counter hook.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
Lots of P5s-even the top 20 teams schedule matches-sometimes doubleheaders vs midmajors in January while others meet in the #1 vs 4 seed matches in NCAAs or ITA Kickoff. While usually the top P5s roll over the MMs, players should always take opponents seriously. Since you are an OSU alumni, I probably dont have to remind you that Kingsley lost to an Xavier player in straights in Jan '22-one of CK's 5 losses vs 19 wins that season. The scorelines of 0-4 dont reveal that a line or two might have been competitive with MM players occasionally taking a set and still battling in 2nd or 3rd when match clinched. My son who played MM had a couple matches vs players on top 20 teams where he was up a set and didnt get to finish.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Power-5 schools are in a no-win situation against MM schools. If it wins and that's expected but if it loses, then everyone starts to question its ranking. If the MM player beats a P5 opponent or just even wins a set, he/she can claim that "I can hang with the P5 boys". Almost all the times, P5s don't even play their top 6 against MMs and they probably lose the first set on purpose to train mentally.
I've seen both UVA and Radford play in person. UVA is like the NBA while Radford is more like the G league.
Horse______!
agree, only in rare circumstances do P5's not play their Top 6, they play these match so their players get matches to prepare for conference matches.
100%. And the notion a player would lose a set in a dual on purpose to test their own mental strength is preposterous.
Liam Grennon
Professional
There are also lower P5 teams that match up pretty comparably to some of the upper MM
Right. And in a handful of cases of the top MM's, the lower P5 teams can not beat them. MM coaches do have a challenge getting top ranked teams to play them. I know of a handful of P5 schools that avoid some of the better MM's to avoid the loss and rely on the competitiveness of their conference matches to boost their rankings.
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you mean like Memphis, Middle Tennessee, VCU, Wichita St, SMU, Tulsa
silentkman
Professional
That's enlightening since UVA is one of the elite programs in country.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
@JLyon and @andfor What has happened to UCF and USF? They were MMs that were ranked in top 20-also sometimes San Diego. Lot of internationals like to play in Cali or FL. Did the guys that used to play for UCF and USF decide to play for lower SECs instead? What's up with UCF-even the Roddick kid transferred out? You'd think with the Nat campus right there, UCF would recruit better. Seems like the top MMs with exception of Ivys and MTSU have dropped since pandemic. SEC even played hidden duals in fall 20 when everyone else except maybe Big 12 just practiced-look how Auburn has improved.
Also do you think with the rise in the use of UTR that there are fewer undiscovered players? Some of those guys who went to top MMs are now going directly or transferring to P5s. I think of the Brits-Memphis used to get a lot of them, e.g. Peniston who had a top career ranking of 123 and has earned 400K. With the rise of British progress tour and other UTR events, the P5 coaches can find the Brits now. They use to miss out since GB did not host as many Futures events as the rest of Europe and it seemed a lot of Brits just played LTA. Over the last 4-5 years there have been many more Brits on top P5s to the detriment of the MMs who used to draw them.
Also do you think with the rise in the use of UTR that there are fewer undiscovered players? Some of those guys who went to top MMs are now going directly or transferring to P5s. I think of the Brits-Memphis used to get a lot of them, e.g. Peniston who had a top career ranking of 123 and has earned 400K. With the rise of British progress tour and other UTR events, the P5 coaches can find the Brits now. They use to miss out since GB did not host as many Futures events as the rest of Europe and it seemed a lot of Brits just played LTA. Over the last 4-5 years there have been many more Brits on top P5s to the detriment of the MMs who used to draw them.
jcgatennismom
Hall of Fame
The bottom third of the big 10 could lose to some middle level MMs. Also GA State has beaten Clemson. Sure hope Geoff Young can do something with Purdue-for now the roster is mostly not his recruits, but I hope he can turn it around in future years-he certainly knows the Big10. If Notre Dame can get good Americans to come to the corn fields, maybe Purdue, Nebraska, etc have a chance.... Will be interesting to see how Mich State will do with high level recruit Baris-if team has a chance of reaching NCAAs with rankings in 40s-long shot but maybe
Hmmmm. Yes! You want to call out the match dodgers next or me?you mean like Memphis, Middle Tennessee, VCU, Wichita St, SMU, Tulsa
Congrats to UNC women on their 4-peat at Indoors. There’s no give in that lineup. Just a well oiled machine. They’ve gotta be the strong favorite at NCAAs. Very impressed by Tanguilig who was a good but not great junior. She’s a tremendous athlete. I read somewhere she could have played college basketball
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
And yet, they always underperform everytime in May when the NCAA championship comes around. They had the best chance to win in 2021 but choked under pressure. UNC women tennis is very much like the OSU men tennis team, my alum, disappointment every year in May
collegetennisisthebest
Rookie
What has happened to UCF and USF? They were MMs that were ranked in top 20-also sometimes San Diego. Lot of internationals like to play in Cali or FL. Did the guys that used to play for UCF and USF decide to play for lower SECs instead? What's up with UCF-even the Roddick kid transferred out? You'd think with the Nat campus right there, UCF would recruit better. Seems like the top MMs with exception of Ivys and MTSU have dropped since pandemic. SEC even played hidden duals in fall 20 when everyone else except maybe Big 12 just practiced-look how Auburn has improved.
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UCF lost to Nebraska on Sunday. UCF hired Roddick after he had taken Oklahoma to several NCAA finals. UCF has to be paying a very large salary. To Heighten the pressure on Roddick, the UCF women's team is showing improvement.
[/QUOTE]
UCF lost to Nebraska on Sunday. UCF hired Roddick after he had taken Oklahoma to several NCAA finals. UCF has to be paying a very large salary. To Heighten the pressure on Roddick, the UCF women's team is showing improvement.
collegetennisisthebest
Rookie
I think that strong favorite.....is an overstatement. Texas A&M really, really pushed UNC in the semis. Texas A&M is very good. Georgia women...have not been able to get Vecic Eligible.. If Vecic were to become eligible, Georgia would be the favorite to win it all. Kalbas is a classy guy. I do hope that UNC can win an outdoor natty.
UCF lost to Nebraska on Sunday. UCF hired Roddick after he had taken Oklahoma to several NCAA finals. UCF has to be paying a very large salary. To Heighten the pressure on Roddick, the UCF women's team is showing improvement.
[/QUOTE]
Virtually all of UCF's starters from its top 20 teams scattered to other schools- 2 to Texas A&M (including Roddick's nephew); A couple to Baylor; one's at San Diego (after stops at Cornell and Pepperdine; one to Charlotte; and their last good #1 guy turned pro- I believe only Pavel is left from the team that beat Wake a couple of years ago. I personally think Roddick is a great recruiter, and he also seems to go out of his way to expose his players to the pros training at Lake Nona. He apparently struggles with retention. And going into a Power 5 conference, you would think the program would be getting stronger.
