Accepting that you cannot use poly strings

[TennisViking]

if you have arm problems, are a flatter hitter and don‘t like high launch angles, then i don‘t know way you play with stiff 100 sq in frames with open patterns.

Valid point indeed. I do prefer tweener frames but without the open pattern. Ezone 100 is really good for me but the stiffness is a bit too much for time being. The Vcore 100 has a more open string pattern but I bought it as it is slightly less stiff. There aren’t many tweener frames with a 67 RA rating unstrung. The Vcore 100 is one of the few. I have tried a bunch of softer frames and so far they have been less than ideal for me. I play better and more consistent with 100 inch tweener frames.

 

[TennisViking]

You could also try stringing the crosses slightly tighter than the mains to reduce mains movement to some degree.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Hansen]

I play better and more consistent with 100 inch tweener frames.

have you tried the prince 100 p ? or a 100sq inch pro kennex frame ?

 

[TennisViking]

have you tried the prince 100 p ? or a 100sq inch pro kennex frame ?

Thanks. No, I haven’t tried any of those racquets. I did try the speed MP, Dunlop CX 400 Tour but I guess I prefer a bit wider beam (tweener style ). I have a Clash 100 as well but it lacks a bit of power I think and sometimes it launches the ball strangely.

 

[tele]

Thanks. No, I haven’t tried any of those racquets. I did try the speed MP, Dunlop CX 400 Tour but I guess I prefer a bit wider beam (tweener style ). I have a Clash 100 as well but it lacks a bit of power I think and sometimes it launches the ball strangely.

i think the new shift is supposed to be comfy despite its higher ra(it is flexy perpendicular to the plane in which ra is measured, iiuc), has a thick beam, and has a dense pattern. i have never hit with it, so launch angle might still be high, but it seems like it could check many of your boxes.

 

[TennisViking]

i think the new shift is supposed to be comfy despite its higher ra(it is flexy perpendicular to the plane in which ra is measured, iiuc), has a thick beam, and has a dense pattern. i have never hit with it, so launch angle might still be high, but it seems like it could check many of your boxes.

Yes, thanks. Most likely will demo it. Seems to have a nice string pattern indeed. I never thought string pattern can influence the launch angle so much…..

 

[Fintft]

Bit harsh Mike. Not everyone is the same as you. I string for a bunch of rec players (from 3.0 to 4.5) and none of them are having arm issues with poly. It's just about keeping a very close eye on the health of your arm (which is the first question I ask when someone comes to me as a client). If their arm is healthy and they're not playing excessively (or with excessive force), most people have no problems with poly. One guy refuses to cut it out and has played with dead Alu for 2 years without any problem at all. So go figure! I'd love to know the physiological differences that lead some people to have problems whist others remain fine (I suspect it's connected with pace/power levels as my clients tend to be softer hitters and clearly the harmful vibrations are amplified by power).

I wouldn't describe any of my clients as 'pro-wannabes'. It's more that people want a string which will last a long time... and I'm of the opinion that if something is working fine then there's nothing wrong with it.

Having said all of that, I totally agree that it's possible to play high level tennis without poly and technique is paramount. There's no doubt that poly can make it EASIER to play, and DOES enable higher performance...but that 'cheat code' often actually hinders the development of optimum technique. The best players are those that concentrated on technique long before using poly, and thus don't rely on snap-back to produce spin. Those players can switch between any frame with any strings and still achieve unbelievable spin and control. But it takes a huge amount of time and money (not to mention natural ability) to reach that level...and for most of us, we'd rather just play a couple of sessions a week using the cheat code!

I think these days there's a lot more awareness in the tennis industry (even amongst rec level stringers like myself) about arm health and the dangers of poly...so many people are given good advice as soon as any arm problems develop.

Nice post!
@mike schiffer It's also about technique, btw.

 

[Fintft]

i think the new shift is supposed to be comfy despite its higher ra(it is flexy perpendicular to the plane in which ra is measured, iiuc), has a thick beam, and has a dense pattern. i have never hit with it, so launch angle might still be high, but it seems like it could check many of your boxes.

@TennisViking The new Shift 300 (with added weight) is great for me with softer Maymi polies...Check its trhead, as it has power, spin etc.
But some people complained about pains in the elbow and/or wrist (not me, at least not yet after a couple of months of playing with it).

 

[mike schiffer]

Nice post!
@mike schiffer It's also about technique, btw.

I totally agree...I picked up the game after a layoff of 30 years from an extended bout of TE..... so if I come off as intense thats the reason....I now practice on the wall even more than I play with a partner.....to improve my technique mostly and sometimes finding another soul who wants to practice like the pro's is tough....But working on technique allows me to hit with extreme topspin or slice because of technique and not my string or racquet choice btw head graph 360 radical S(2018) with orange prince syn 16 modded with foam in the frame weighs 11.6 oz

 

[Fintft]

I totally agree...I picked up the game after a layoff of 30 years from an extended bout of TE..... so if I come off as intense thats the reason....I now practice on the wall even more than I play with a partner.....to improve my technique mostly and sometimes finding another soul who wants to practice like the pro's is tough....But working on technique allows me to hit with extreme topspin or slice because of technique and not my string or racquet choice btw head graph radical S(2018) with orange prince syn 16

Good, but neither me, nor my coaches are sure about the benefits of the wall practice, unless you do only one shot at the time or such?
Also, let's presume that you only have less advanced partners, than maybe you could defend more or execute more difficult shots/drills?

 

[mike schiffer]

the wall and regular partner (match) play is my formula....and the point I was trying to make was when I was younger and pretty much played practice matches almost exclusively...I did not progress like I do now....so the wall practice works for me this way.....and I have a variety of shots I can work out simulating match play on the wall....anyway to each his own.....and no more TE

 

[optic yellow]

Good, but neither me, nor my coaches are sure about the benefits of the wall practice, unless you do only one shot at the time or such?
Also, let's presume that you only have less advanced partners, than maybe you could defend more or execute more difficult shots/drills?

wut

 

[mike schiffer]

really so glad the sporting goods industry that gave us the wilson Profile that almost guaranteed TE in anyone foolish enuf {me} to wield it and lose 25 years of tennis time due to tissue scarring and joint inflammation and breakdown and then come up with a string that did something in the vicinity of the same and have a long string life but it really did some damage after an hour or two of it's prime string life.... those who can enjoy........enjoy.......but I love to see your comments about how your having degree's of incremental damage occur and what do you do.....your gonna mix the same poly with another poly and hope for a lesser degree of micro scarring and inflammation...good luck iron elbow players...cant understand it

 

[Fairhit]

really so glad the sporting goods industry that gave us the wilson Profile that almost guaranteed TE in anyone foolish enuf {me} to wield it and lose 25 years of tennis time due to tissue scarring and joint inflammation and breakdown and then come up with a string that did something in the vicinity of the same and have a long string life but it really did some damage after an hour or two of it's prime string life.... those who can enjoy........enjoy.......but I love to see your comments about how your having degree's of incremental damage occur and what do you do.....your gonna mix the same poly with another poly and hope for a lesser degree of micro scarring and inflammation...good luck iron elbow players...cant understand it

I tried poly one last time like 6 months ago, not even 4 hours of play and my elbow was hurting, never again, even if it makes me play like Roger, I prefer to play like me for a long time than play amazing for a couple of hours and never play again.

 

[robyrolfo]

Good, but neither me, nor my coaches are sure about the benefits of the wall practice, unless you do only one shot at the time or such?
Also, let's presume that you only have less advanced partners, than maybe you could defend more or execute more difficult shots/drills?

Not trying to sound rude, but you and your coaches should consider some of the great players that credit the wall with making them so good. McEnroe is the first that comes to mind, but he played with a wooden racquet and a continental grip, in a different era of tennis, right? Well, there is also a certain Novak Djokovic that says the wall is where he honed his skills, so...

 

[Fintft]

Not trying to sound rude, but you and your coaches should consider some of the great players that credit the wall with making them so good. McEnroe is the first that comes to mind, but he played with a wooden racquet and a continental grip, in a different era of tennis, right? Well, there is also a certain Novak Djokovic that says the wall is where he honed his skills, so...

Sure if you move like Joker, why not?
Besides, are you a coach?

 

[optic yellow]

Sure if you move like Joker, why not?
Besides, are you a coach?

What does moving like Djokovic have to do with it?

(Read this as a calm sober question not an aggressive challenge.)

 

[Fintft]

What does moving like Djokovic have to do with it?

(Read this as a calm sober question not an aggressive challenge.)

Do you have to ask?
Try taking a full swing at the ball, it is going to come back fast from the wall.
The only poster I remember here who can do a moderate pace wall practice of more then one shot is @Sir Weed .

 

[optic yellow]

Do you have to ask?
Try taking a full swing at the ball, it is going to come back fast from the wall.
The only poster I remember here who can do a moderate pace wall practice of more then one shot is @Sir Weed .

Try alternating groundstrokes with reaction shots or standing a bit further back.

 

[Fintft]

Try alternating groundstrokes with reaction shots or standing a bit further back.

Walls usually don't have room for you to stand further back.

 

[Icsa]

I perfected my shots using a wall, one by one. It is possible: learn to hit perpendicular so that the balls comes back to you, it's a good way to practice unit turn. You can hit as soft and as hard as you want, adjust the distance to the wall for that. Have a target or line that mimics the net and hit consistently the same spot. I developed my topspin backhand and volley at the wall, I couldn't have done it otherwise, nobody would have had the patience to feed me hundreds of balls to my backhand. I also practiced a lot of powerful but precise top-spin forehands. A side effect is that now it is super easy to hit balls down the line.

 

[optic yellow]

Walls usually don't have room for you to stand further back.

Where are you hitting on walls that don't have this? All three I use regularly have at least the standard baseline buffer depth behind them, two because they are aligned with a court.

 

[jmacdaununder2]

You can also hit hard, high & on the 2nd bounce on walls with decent room.

 

[Happi]

Poly with isospeed control crosses is quite popular here and a very comfy combo. But I also live in isospeed country so that might have something to do with it.

I just strung Cyber Flash mains and Isospeed professional Classic cross, seems like a very soft hybrid. I will play tonight so I will see how my arm takes it.

Have you or your team mates any experience with shaped poly and Isospeed control or prof as cross ? Thanks.

 

[veelium]

I just strung Cyber Flash mains and Isospeed professional Classic cross, seems like a very soft hybrid. I will play tonight so I will see how my arm takes it.

Have you or your team mates any experience with shaped poly and Isospeed control or prof as cross ? Thanks.

I strung Silver 7 tour mains with isospeed professional classic crosses for my brother.
I was worried it would break very quickly but he already used it for 5-6 hours without it breaking.
He likes it a lot and it feels very soft.

 

[Happi]

I strung Silver 7 tour mains with isospeed professional classic crosses for my brother.
I was worried it would break very quickly but he already used it for 5-6 hours without it breaking.
He likes it a lot and it feels very soft.

Great, good to know. What would you use in tension difference ? I strung Iso 1kg higher than poly mains.

 

[veelium]

Great, good to know. What would you use in tension difference ? I strung Iso 1kg higher than poly mains.

I used the same tension for both. I assume it doesn't matter too much. 1kg higher on the iso sounds reasonable too.

 

[Fintft]

Where are you hitting on walls that don't have this? All three I use regularly have at least the standard baseline buffer depth behind them, two because they are aligned with a court.

In our city, they don't.

 

[mike schiffer]

Isospeed professional classic 16 is one of my favorites for promoting a healthy elbow while giving gut like response......I string 2 lbs higher than syn gut and love the comfort.......Tennis wall play is what Borg did for hours on end to hear him tell it and it seemed to create a pretty good set of fundamentals for that guy..... the wall has been a consistent no B.S. non judgemental source of perfect feedback for my game without the coaches yelling good job after every shot ......I've seen the videos...The wall does not lie

 

[mike schiffer]

I perfected my shots using a wall, one by one. It is possible: learn to hit perpendicular so that the balls comes back to you, it's a good way to practice unit turn. You can hit as soft and as hard as you want, adjust the distance to the wall for that. Have a target or line that mimics the net and hit consistently the same spot. I developed my topspin backhand and volley at the wall, I couldn't have done it otherwise, nobody would have had the patience to feed me hundreds of balls to my backhand. I also practiced a lot of powerful but precise top-spin forehands. A side effect is that now it is super easy to hit balls down the line.

Good point...who is going to stand there and feed you the 10000 balls it takes to get let say.... the slice backhand become ingrained into your muscle memory .....I hit the wall with great enthusiasm on my practice days and can see the llttle degrees of progress that occur incrementally over time.... The last bit of wisdom I heard from one of the big time coaches was..."Dont bother trying to hit the Federer backhand....it's not possible......Guess what I'm working on now ......

 

[Fighting phoenix]

Not trying to sound rude, but you and your coaches should consider some of the great players that credit the wall with making them so good. McEnroe is the first that comes to mind, but he played with a wooden racquet and a continental grip, in a different era of tennis, right? Well, there is also a certain Novak Djokovic that says the wall is where he honed his skills, so...

Jimmy Connors spent a lot of time hitting against his garage door. The Intuitive Tennis guy on youtube also just posted a video about things you can do hitting against a wall to improve your game.

 

[robyrolfo]

Do you have to ask?
Try taking a full swing at the ball, it is going to come back fast from the wall.
The only poster I remember here who can do a moderate pace wall practice of more then one shot is @Sir Weed .

It's really not that difficult to do once you practice it a little. I have tons of videos of myself hitting against a wide variety of walls (see below).

I perfected my shots using a wall, one by one. It is possible: learn to hit perpendicular so that the balls comes back to you, it's a good way to practice unit turn. You can hit as soft and as hard as you want, adjust the distance to the wall for that. Have a target or line that mimics the net and hit consistently the same spot. I developed my topspin backhand and volley at the wall, I couldn't have done it otherwise, nobody would have had the patience to feed me hundreds of balls to my backhand. I also practiced a lot of powerful but precise top-spin forehands. A side effect is that now it is super easy to hit balls down the line.

This. The wall is free, doesn't get tired or bored, and usually does exactly what you ask it to do (unless it's not a perfect wall). Sure, getting balls fed to you is great, as is getting to see exactly where they land on the other side of the net, but for working on specific things and trying to get some "reps" in, the wall can't be beat.

In our city, they don't.

Wait, what? What city do you live in? You realize that it doesn't have to be a tennis wall, right? You can use racquet ball walls (which are everywhere where I live), or even just plain old walls! Again, I could show you video hitting against a bunch of different walls...

 

[optic yellow]

It's really not that difficult to do once you practice it a little. I have tons of videos of myself hitting against a wide variety of walls (see below).


This. The wall is free, doesn't get tired or bored, and usually does exactly what you ask it to do (unless it's not a perfect wall). Sure, getting balls fed to you is great, as is getting to see exactly where they land on the other side of the net, but for working on specific things and trying to get some "reps" in, the wall can't be beat.


Wait, what? What city do you live in? You realize that it doesn't have to be a tennis wall, right? You can use racquet ball walls (which are everywhere where I live), or even just plain old walls! Again, I could show you video hitting against a bunch of different walls...

Racquet ball courts work but do actually have legitimate concerns with available space.

 

[jmacdaununder2]

Oh to live in a city without walls...poetry, absolute poetry.

 

[Fairhit]

The wall was where I learned to slice.

Because of the pandemic I wasn't able to play for almost 9 months, the wall of the squash court was the one that let me hit a ball again.

 

[Hawks9451]

@TennisViking The new Shift 300 (with added weight) is great for me with softer Maymi polies...Check its trhead, as it has power, spin etc.
But some people complained about pains in the elbow and/or wrist (not me, at least not yet after a couple of months of playing with it).

What are the best Mayami polys?

 

[TennisJrDad]

I string more Tour Hex than anything else for the higher end players

What are the best Mayami polys?

 

[Fintft]

What are the best Mayami polys?

Yeah, Tour Hex.

 

[ccmtennis]

I've mainly used poly strings over the years due to the added control/ spin they provided.

For most of that time I did not have any pain, but after I tried the 2018 pure drive a few years ago, my elbow and shoulder have been very sensitive to poly in any racket, and trust me ive tried every poly out there that is reported as being "comfortable".

For some reason even my 93p with a hybrid makes my shoulder sore if I play a few times a few a week.

However, when I use a multi I never get any pain, which I have to accept at this point is the way forwards.

I'd like to hear from some people who are in a similar situation.

Did you just come to terms with the negatives that come along with using multi strings over poly (Break quickly / worse spin)?

Ive tried quite a few multis but none of them give me the confidence of poly.

I personally have had such severe TE to the point my MRI showed the tendon was partially torn. I have tried many multis but just could never gel with any of them due to the control and feel. I ended with a solid core syn gut (OG sheep micro) on the mains and poly cross ( cyclone) and it gives me comfort and the best of both worlds. I think a good syn gut is underrated and multis are overrated just MHO

 

[Fairhit]

I personally have had such severe TE to the point my MRI showed the tendon was partially torn. I have tried many multis but just could never gel with any of them due to the control and feel. I ended with a solid core syn gut (OG sheep micro) on the mains and poly cross ( cyclone) and it gives me comfort and the best of both worlds. I think a good syn gut is underrated and multis are overrated just MHO

I went the syn gut route as well, people swear by multis but i´ll keep playing with syn gut for the foreseeable future.

 

[Fighting phoenix]

I went the syn gut route as well, people swear by multis but i´ll keep playing with syn gut for the foreseeable future.

Love me some gamma tnt or professional syn gut! I hate the way the high end Multis fray

 

[robyrolfo]

Racquet ball courts work but do actually have legitimate concerns with available space.

That is true, they do have somewhat limited space, but they are still usable. And NYC has them everywhere.

Because of the pandemic I wasn't able to play for almost 9 months, the wall of the squash court was the one that let me hit a ball again.

For some reason in NY they even closed the outdoor parks during the pandemic, so it wasn't even possible to hit alone on a racquetball court. I had to resort to hitting on the sides of buildings.

 

[TheBlackburnMorb]

I've not seen any tennis walls in the north of England. If I had one close I'd be on it all the time.

I've finally tried Volkl classic synthetic gut in another racket other than my c10 pro. Used 17 guage in my Prestige tour (2021) at 55lbs and it felt amazing. Soft with great spin. The sensation when hitting the sweet spot with this racket and string is so addictive.

It might be too early to say, but I think I like it more than any multi I've tried.

With regards to the prestige tour, I was worried about the RA with my bum shoulder, but I've had no issues and won all 4 matches I've played with it. Couldn't be happier after being out injured for so long.

 

[mike schiffer]

Love to hear all your comments on synth gut....Glad we have the multi's polys, etc....more choices the better....However my return to synth gut was out of lack of choices at the time .....new living arrangement and no racquet of my own...but bought a wilson ncode 5 force with Prince synth 16 on C-List and I was impressed by the simple sturdy construction of a wilson 90's racquet and the predictable comfy response of 10 year old Prince syn gut.....Spiky sharks and grapplestuff not withstanding....enjoy the variety and breadth of choices our sport offers but I gotta call out some of the B.S when they prove harmful and the most informed experts out there seem to have an agenda pushing stiff racquets and strings just cause the pro's use them.....The pro's like Laver and Borg also used full bed gut racquets and did not seem to have control issues or arm/elbow problems like now....I will say this in closing...once you have experienced elbow-shoulder issues...you DO NOT ever want to feel those telltale twinges again...The healing process is long and reoccurring.....just ask joker

 

[jmacdaununder2]

If even Fed and Joker still use gut mains full poly beds clearly aren’t the be all & end all.