Accepting that you cannot use poly strings

[Shroud]

Be careful ashaway makes a copoly called monogut. Its silver and afaik its their version of alu power. They sell a hybrid with monogut and monogutzx:

Ashaway Crossfire ZX Tour 16L/1.27 String | Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com

For monogut zx only its this one:

Ashaway MonoGut ZX 16/1.27 String | Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com

Though i don’t ever recall using a full bed. For me its more of a cross. For prestretching just pull on one end and it should stretch at least a FOOT if not 2 ft permanently. Iirc. Once it stops stretching it will outlast pretty much every string. Even kevlar mains bow down to zx crosses.

Fwiw if i wouldn’t shred it in 20 min i would probably be using gut/zx if I wanted a soft spin friendly combo

 

[Shroud]

One of the things that makes you get so much spin with poly is the lack of power. So being very powerful sounds counterproductive in that sense.

Makes sense. But spin is also from launch angle and snap back which monogut zx is great at. I might be wrong but I bet the “its powerful” reports are from stringings where the zx wasnt prestretched or permanently elongated prior to stringing. You can pull on it and it will stretch over a foot. Just think of that happening in a stringbed. You will get lots of power from tension loss and its higher launch.

Now if it is prestretched properly it will have some of the best tension maintenance out there and is highly durable as a cross. You can get way more time from zx than most polys.

 

[TBM]

One of the things that makes you get so much spin with poly is the lack of power. So being very powerful sounds counterproductive in that sense.

I watched a video that stated that strung at 52 it might feel like a rocket launcher, and strung at 60 might feel dead as a board. So presumably it might have an ideal amount of power at the right tension.

 

[tele]

[

One of the things that makes you get so much spin with poly is the lack of power. So being very powerful sounds counterproductive in that sense.

one of the things, yes, but monogut zx is very slippery, and IME it makes an appreciable difference in spin production (based on a perception of what was happening with my kick serve and forehands−I have not done any measurements), assuming you are not so wary of of the power that you stop using full swings.

ultimately, it was too powerful for my tastes, but if someone likes power but wants more spin than, say, a full bed of biphase or gut, it is an option worth trying in the crosses in my opinion.

 

[weelie]

It's around £22+ postage for a set of ZX in the UK and there is no black version available. I've seen the crossfire review, but I'm still not confident that it's going to be soft enough for me.

I'll consider buying some ZX. It might be an ideal string for the cold winter months.

Any ideas on tension for a full bed in a dunlop CX 200 OS on a constant pull machine?

I always have to question whether it's even worth bothering when I can get a reel of Velocity MLT for £60.

In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!

I'm 4 sessions (approx 8 hours) into my experiment with this string combo. Strung kevlar mains at 60 and Zyex crosses at 40 Lbs (in my Angell 95). Wow!!! Easy spin, with proper technique. Extreme control. Absolutely 0 discomfort. I can't recommend this combo highly enough. There were a few...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

 

[ey039524]

btw if I wanted a soft spinny string bed that was affordable I would try ashaway liberty/ monogut zx. Super soft yet decent spin. If money wansn't a big deal can't think of a better arm and spin friendly setup than natural gut/ monogut zx. If I didn't shred the gut in 20 min I would still be using that combo I bet.

It's around £22+ postage for a set of ZX in the UK and there is no black version available. I've seen the crossfire review, but I'm still not confident that it's going to be soft enough for me.

I'll consider buying some ZX. It might be an ideal string for the cold winter months.

Any ideas on tension for a full bed in a dunlop CX 200 OS on a constant pull machine?

I always have to question whether it's even worth bothering when I can get a reel of Velocity MLT for £60.

Long time zx user here. I only use it in black on outdoor courts. Used to play gut/ZX at 40 lbs in the lowest ra frames I could find (7.5 Pro staff, but now phantom p line, and even older/softer 80s Prince frame powerflex 90). Used babolat elastocrosses and would get 2-3 months of 4.5 level doubles out of one string job.

I used multis in place of gut when testing new frames. Loved axon multi, too.

Now, using soft polys crossed w ZX at 30 lbs. I've tried ultra cable black, cream, and have a reel of cyberflash. I honestly can't tell the difference at this tension.

Zx as a full bed sounds weird. I hated it. As a cross, it's great.

As a dubs player, I'm always looking for pocketing touch/feel, hence the soft frames and low tensions. Yeah, I may spray returns, but then I blame myself for not enough topspin. My elbow thanks me.

 

[Happi]

Long time zx user here. I only use it in black on outdoor courts. Used to play gut/ZX at 40 lbs in the lowest ra frames I could find (7.5 Pro staff, but now phantom p line, and even older/softer 80s Prince frame powerflex 90). Used babolat elastocrosses and would get 2-3 months of 4.5 level doubles out of one string job.

I used multis in place of gut when testing new frames. Loved axon multi, too.

Now, using soft polys crossed w ZX at 30 lbs. I've tried ultra cable black, cream, and have a reel of cyberflash. I honestly can't tell the difference at this tension.

Zx as a full bed sounds weird. I hated it. As a cross, it's great.

As a dubs player, I'm always looking for pocketing touch/feel, hence the soft frames and low tensions. Yeah, I may spray returns, but then I blame myself for not enough topspin. My elbow thanks me.

Do you string gut and zx at the same tension. And what about poly / zx ? Do you prestretch zx ?

I only tried zx in full bed snd did not like the Sound and feel. Still have some black zx and I might want to try it out as a cross.

 

[Shroud]

Do you string gut and zx at the same tension. And what about poly / zx ? Do you prestretch zx ?

I only tried zx in full bed snd did not like the Sound and feel. Still have some black zx and I might want to try it out as a cross.

When you did full bed was it prestretched?

 

[TBM]

I'm trying out my old Pure drive + 2015 tomorrow morning strung with HEAD Lynx 1.20 at 43lb/40lbs.

I can feel that it has nice pocketing just from bouncing the ball on it.

My theory is that this one was probably below spec on RA originally, and has probably softened up some from being restrung so many times.

 

[ey039524]

Do you string gut and zx at the same tension. And what about poly / zx ? Do you prestretch zx ?

I only tried zx in full bed snd did not like the Sound and feel. Still have some black zx and I might want to try it out as a cross.

No, I don't like prestretching b/c I like loose tensions. I used to string gut mains at 40 lbs and ZX crosses at 36, but I also used to string them w/ proportional stringing tensions via Sergetti formula (didn't really notice a difference). Now I'm stringing at 30 lb poly mains x 26 lb ZX crosses. And, I'll cut my mains out every other string job and keep the crosses.

 

[Happi]

No, I don't like prestretching b/c I like loose tensions. I used to string gut mains at 40 lbs and ZX crosses at 36, but I also used to string them w/ proportional stringing tensions via Sergetti formula (didn't really notice a difference). Now I'm stringing at 30 lb poly mains x 26 lb ZX crosses. And, I'll cut my mains out every other string job and keep the crosses.

Thanks, I also like the tension loss and never prestretch, but somehow zx could be different, so good to know your way.

I always cut out the crosses and keep the mains, I have to get my head around how to do the opposite and weave the mains.

 

[Happi]

When you did full bed was it prestretched?

No just normal. I cut out the strings before the big drop in tension as I did not like the sound and feel ? I did not mind the power. I am ready to give zx another try as cross string.

 

[teachingprotx]

I don’t pre stretch either personally.
But with this info from yall , I’m gonna before I string it up

 

[ey039524]

Thanks, I also like the tension loss and never prestretch, but somehow zx could be different, so good to know your way.

I always cut out the crosses and keep the mains, I have to get my head around how to do the opposite and weave the mains.

You have to tie off crosses on crosses. It looks cleaner, anyway.

I don’t pre stretch either personally.
But with this info from yall , I’m gonna before I string it up

I would try not pre stretching first, if that's your usual. I would never pre stretch my gut, either.

 

[teachingprotx]

Well damn now I’m all jacked up ….. stretch . Pre -stretch , high tension .. low tension .. its madness.
I must have her

 

[Shroud]

Well damn now I’m all jacked up ….. stretch . Pre -stretch , high tension .. low tension .. its madness.
I must have her

Just be careful on the knots. Hand pull for sure. No nicks or it will break.

I agree with most of this though it doesn’t really go into prestretching as much. Some good points about the machine settings

 

[TBM]

I tested out three rackets today over 2+ hours.

Dunlop CX 200 OS (my main racket):
String: Head velocity MLT 16 black
Tension: 54lbs (contant pull machine). Perfect tension for this racket.

The performance of this racket / string combo is really great. It feels plush on impact and has great spin and control. The 105 head also mitigates any jarring shanks as the string bed is large and forgiving. I feared that it wouldn't work well with a multi, but as the strings and frame are lower on the power scale it played great.

Prince ATS tour 98
String: Head velocity MLT 16 Black
Tension: 52lbs (constant pull machine). The tension felt perfect.

This frame is low powered and also feels plush on contact. It felt stable on both wings and was easy to serve with. I didn't notice a high launch angle as per the TW review, but that might be because I was using a multi. This feels more comfortable than the Artengo TR960 control tour that I tested a few weeks back. Really positive first impressions.

Babolat pure drive plus 2015
String: Head lynx blue 1.20
Tension: 43/40lbs (constant pull). I have no issues controlling poly at this tension.

This racket is a bit of a unicorn. I felt no jarring sensations on mishits, and the overall feel is quite comfortable. No TE flare-ups whilst playing etc. It's so easy to hit a powerful serve with little to no effort. I've used several other pure drive models and they have all hurt my arm, so I still wouldn't recommend any pure drive for TE /GE sufferers. This is a racket that I'll only take out from time to time. I prefer the feeling of more plush rackets anyway, but it's nice to have a pure drive in my collection that doesn't destroy my arm.

 

[teachingprotx]

Just ordered monogut zx 16 black.

 

[teachingprotx]

My first kiss with monogut zx. Sheeeewwww weeeeee. That kink “ sound is acoustically offensive to my ears . Wow…. But.. I could get over it but I didn’t care for it .
Bottomed out a lot on me when hitting higher balls . Felt great on flat drives . Spin felt good enough but the ball pocketing was lacking for me .. I’ll be giving it another shot . And get back .

 

[Shroud]

My first kiss with monogut zx. Sheeeewwww weeeeee. That kink “ sound is acoustically offensive to my ears . Wow…. But.. I could get over it but I didn’t care for it .
Bottomed out a lot on me when hitting higher balls . Felt great on flat drives . Spin felt good enough but the ball pocketing was lacking for me .. I’ll be giving it another shot . And get back .

Sounds like a full bed. Never did one myself but that sounds right. Imho zx is best as a cross.

Anyhow did you manually prestretch to elongate the string by a ft?

 

[tele]

My first kiss with monogut zx. Sheeeewwww weeeeee. That kink “ sound is acoustically offensive to my ears . Wow…. But.. I could get over it but I didn’t care for it .
Bottomed out a lot on me when hitting higher balls . Felt great on flat drives . Spin felt good enough but the ball pocketing was lacking for me .. I’ll be giving it another shot . And get back .

I have only used zx as a cross, but I felt a dramatic difference in pocketing between around 320 swingweight and around 330 swingweight, with the latter having more.

 

[teachingprotx]

No pre-stretch. Too lazy ..
full bed …. I’m all or nothing . I can’t do hybrid string ..
I’ll see if it can loosen up a bit … more later when I have another proper hitting lesson

 

[Shroud]

No pre-stretch. Too lazy ..
full bed …. I’m all or nothing . I can’t do hybrid string ..
I’ll see if it can loosen up a bit … more later when I have another proper hitting lesson

well then try increasing the tension by 10 lbs next time. Its a stretchy string. FWIW the noise is probably not the string so much as low tension. Every racquet has a resonance frequency and if you get there by low tension the sound and vibes are not good. Been there. For one stick is was in the high 30s. ZX can lose lots of tension initially.

 

[vokazu]

My 400 g racquet is really comfortable with full poly of Babolat Pro Hurricane Tour 17 (55 lbs mains, 53 lbs cross).

 

[ey039524]

I hated the sound of a full bed of ZX, too. Love it as a cross, and it doesn't make a weird sound, either.

 

[tele]

I hated the sound of a full bed of ZX, too. Love it as a cross, and it doesn't make a weird sound, either.

i also did not notice a major difference in sound with it in the crosses

 

[TennisViking]

Hi to everyone in this great thread

I had a pretty bad spell of tennis elbow for over 1 year; luckily it has now passed. I have now played 3 months without it. Not sure how I got over it but kept on doing a lot of exercises for the arm/shoulders and used a good elbow brace while playing. Also avoided playing too much with at the least one day break between sessions. Now I don't need the brace anymore.
Pretty interesting that when it started it came all of a sudden, and when I finally got over it, seems the final recovery happened quite suddenly.

I reverted back to a full bed of X-One (1.34) in my Ezone 100 (2022). Also liked the Isospeed Control Classic 1.30, but the X-One is the one I really love. I will definitely not use full bed poly anymore as for my game the X-One works pretty well. Still, I would love to somehow improve the spin potential slightly while still having as much comfort as possible. I need the easy power of the Ezone 100 so unfortunately I can't start using a 98" racquet (cartilage damage in knee and not getting any better).

I am thinking of doing a hybrid with the X-One in the mains and some soft string in the crosses that might be of some help in the spin department. I string the X-One at 24 kg (53 pounds).
I was thinking of these strings in the crosses:

Tecnifibre Multifeel (Black)
Babolat RPM Soft
String project Magic

There are probably many other good options. Please share your advice and also at what tension would be good to string the crosses. I have two similar racquets so will try to test this in one racquet while keeping the X-One in full bed in the other frame.

 

[TBM]

Hi to everyone in this great thread

I had a pretty bad spell of tennis elbow for over 1 year; luckily it has now passed. I have now played 3 months without it. Not sure how I got over it but kept on doing a lot of exercises for the arm/shoulders and used a good elbow brace while playing. Also avoided playing too much with at the least one day break between sessions. Now I don't need the brace anymore.
Pretty interesting that when it started it came all of a sudden, and when I finally got over it, seems the final recovery happened quite suddenly.

I reverted back to a full bed of X-One (1.34) in my Ezone 100 (2022). Also liked the Isospeed Control Classic 1.30, but the X-One is the one I really love. I will definitely not use full bed poly anymore as for my game the X-One works pretty well. Still, I would love to somehow improve the spin potential slightly while still having as much comfort as possible. I need the easy power of the Ezone 100 so unfortunately I can't start using a 98" racquet (cartilage damage in knee and not getting any better).

I am thinking of doing a hybrid with the X-One in the mains and some soft string in the crosses that might be of some help in the spin department. I string the X-One at 24 kg (53 pounds).
I was thinking of these strings in the crosses:

Tecnifibre Multifeel (Black)
Babolat RPM Soft
String project Magic

There are probably many other good options. Please share your advice and also at what tension would be good to string the crosses. I have two similar racquets so will try to test this in one racquet while keeping the X-One in full bed in the other frame.

In all honesty, you aren't going to be able to add much spin using a multi/ multi hybrid.

Tecnifibre multifeel will keep the strings straighter for longer if that's something you care about.

Using just X-one for an extended period of time will improve your spin potential the most. The more you get used to it the more you'll adjust to its capabilities and it will gradually feel more predictable.

 

[tele]

Hi to everyone in this great thread

I had a pretty bad spell of tennis elbow for over 1 year; luckily it has now passed. I have now played 3 months without it. Not sure how I got over it but kept on doing a lot of exercises for the arm/shoulders and used a good elbow brace while playing. Also avoided playing too much with at the least one day break between sessions. Now I don't need the brace anymore.
Pretty interesting that when it started it came all of a sudden, and when I finally got over it, seems the final recovery happened quite suddenly.

I reverted back to a full bed of X-One (1.34) in my Ezone 100 (2022). Also liked the Isospeed Control Classic 1.30, but the X-One is the one I really love. I will definitely not use full bed poly anymore as for my game the X-One works pretty well. Still, I would love to somehow improve the spin potential slightly while still having as much comfort as possible. I need the easy power of the Ezone 100 so unfortunately I can't start using a 98" racquet (cartilage damage in knee and not getting any better).

I am thinking of doing a hybrid with the X-One in the mains and some soft string in the crosses that might be of some help in the spin department. I string the X-One at 24 kg (53 pounds).
I was thinking of these strings in the crosses:

Tecnifibre Multifeel (Black)
Babolat RPM Soft
String project Magic

There are probably many other good options. Please share your advice and also at what tension would be good to string the crosses. I have two similar racquets so will try to test this in one racquet while keeping the X-One in full bed in the other frame.

monogut zx will boost snapback as a cross and is very soft at 55 lbs

also, congratulations on getting over tennis elbow!

 

[veelium]

So the Orange X-One Biphase 1.24 / Multifeel black 1.30 experiment ended in X-One breaking after less than 3 hours (Black Ace 97). Thanks again to @Happi for the trial set.
Also honestly just played better tennis with the Prestige with Rip control / Hawk rough hybrid that followed after it. Might be the racquet as it was the first time trying it but damn it's hard to be completely happy with a complete non-poly setup.

 

[Solemn]

So the Orange X-One Biphase 1.24 / Multifeel black 1.30 experiment ended in X-One breaking after less than 3 hours (Black Ace 97). Thanks again to @Happi for the trial set.
Also honestly just played better tennis with the Prestige with Rip control / Hawk rough hybrid that followed after it. Might be the racquet as it was the first time trying it but damn it's hard to be completely happy with a complete non-poly setup.

Highly recommend Multifeel Black 130 / YPTA 125 if you are willing to consider poly in the crosses! I find the MFb to be more durable than the X-One Biphase with the solid core and the YPTA is pretty easy on it too. In my experience, the mains snapback and play well right up to the end before it snaps (YY22EZ98). YMMV!

 

[ChanterRacquet]

Highly recommend Multifeel Black 130 / YPTA 125 if you are willing to consider poly in the crosses!

My son played NRG2/YPTA for a quick min between fullbeds of NRG2 and now YPTA. It was a solid setup, Tecnifibre multis are hard to beat!

 

[Happi]

So the Orange X-One Biphase 1.24 / Multifeel black 1.30 experiment ended in X-One breaking after less than 3 hours (Black Ace 97). Thanks again to @Happi for the trial set.
Also honestly just played better tennis with the Prestige with Rip control / Hawk rough hybrid that followed after it. Might be the racquet as it was the first time trying it but damn it's hard to be completely happy with a complete non-poly setup.

You must be hitting harder than me or with more spin did you like the feel og the Orange X1 ?

 

[Tmano]

So the Orange X-One Biphase 1.24 / Multifeel black 1.30 experiment ended in X-One breaking after less than 3 hours (Black Ace 97). Thanks again to @Happi for the trial set.
Also honestly just played better tennis with the Prestige with Rip control / Hawk rough hybrid that followed after it. Might be the racquet as it was the first time trying it but damn it's hard to be completely happy with a complete non-poly setup.

It is interesting because i broke multifuel 1.25 with velocity in one hour with the PKBlackAce but velocity full bed so far has been good for 3.5 hours.

 

[veelium]

You must be hitting harder than me or with more spin did you like the feel og the Orange X1 ?

Yeah feel was good. Enjoyed the string but just breaks too quickly for me. I'll try the second half of the set in a denser pattern.

It is interesting because i broke multifuel 1.25 with velocity in one hour with the PKBlackAce but velocity full bed so far has been good for 3.5 hours.

Velocity 1.25 full bed lasted twice as long for me compared to multifeel black 1.25. I preferred playability of the multifeel though.

 

[Tmano]

Yeah feel was good. Enjoyed the string but just breaks too quickly for me. I'll try the second half of the set in a denser pattern.


Velocity 1.25 full bed lasted twice as long for me compared to multifeel black 1.25. I preferred playability of the multifeel though.

i agree with you that multifuel is a better string but 1 jour in nothing. I found velocity rather powerful while most of the people on here have a different opinion It could be also the racquet to be more powerful than i thought.

 

[TBM]

I've hit with Yonex Poly tour Air a few times now and I really like it.

I haven't really noticed a massive tension drop over about 4+ hours of play.

Feels less plasticy than head lynx and Volkl cyclone tour and more controlled that Head Velocity MLT.

No control issues but maybe that's because I'm used to switching between multis and polys on a regular basis.

It's worth trying if you haven't already.

 

[Move]

I can still hit with poly strings but not on cold, windy and wet winter days. Too much risk for injury. On these occasions i switch to hybrid : Triax/MSV co-focus or a full bed of Triax
When playing nearly every day in spring / summer i sometimes also use the hybrid to prevent overplaying and hurting my elbow tendons. I do however use a Theraband everyday just as a precaution and to keep the tendons strong and elastic

 

[TBM]

I can still hit with poly strings but not on cold, windy and wet winter days. Too much risk for injury. On these occasions i switch to hybrid : Triax/MSV co-focus or a full bed of Triax

It's the same story for me. I usually only play indoors over the winter as the cold weather really takes its toll on me no matter how I stretch / warm up.

It's a shame that indoor tennis is so expensive as it means I cannot play very often.

 

[Move]

It's the same story for me. I usually only play indoors over the winter as the cold weather really takes its toll on me no matter how I stretch / warm up.

It's a shame that indoor tennis is so expensive as it means I cannot play very often.

Over here (Netherlands) the number of indoor tennis courts is decreasing rapidly, they change them in padel boxes. Luckily the winters are not that cold anymore like 30 years ago

 

[TBM]

Over here (Netherlands) the number of indoor tennis courts is decreasing rapidly, they change them in padel boxes. Luckily the winters are not that cold anymore like 30 years ago

There is one indoor court near me and its £20 an hour. I'm not sure how that compares to other places but it feels a lot to me. At least it gives me an excuse to recover from any minor injuries over the winter.

 

[movdqa]

Over here (Netherlands) the number of indoor tennis courts is decreasing rapidly, they change them in padel boxes. Luckily the winters are not that cold anymore like 30 years ago

We were hitting indoors a few months ago and someone walked onto the empty court next to ours and was inspecting the surface, lighting, etc. He walked over to talk to us when we were done and asked us questions about the court. We used to have three courts but they turned one into a hockey rink so we only have two right now. Many years ago, the pickelball players put tape down on the tennis courts which resulted in the tennis players ripping it up because it was a tripping hazard. The pickelball players lobbied for space so the club put down temporary lines for them on the basketball court. The basketball players lobbied and the pickelball players were moved to a different facility.

This guy wanted to permanently take one of the remaining two tennis courts for pickelball exclusively. I asked why as they already had a facility for it and he explained that it was about the surface. Indoor pickelball is usually played on a fast surface like wood and they use a particular ball for it. Outdoor pickelball is usually played on a surface like tennis hardcourts. This guy wanted their traditional outdoor surface indoors and the only way to get that would be our current tennis courts. I only learned this by talking to one of our tennis guys that also played pickelball. Our club has three facilities in the area and one facility has wood floors in areas for basketball, volleyball, badminton and soccer. Another only has wood and synthetic fiber surfaces. Ours has wood and tennis hardcourts.

So I sent out a group text to a bunch of the active tennis players and they got to work discussing it and our one guy made some contacts and then reassured us that we were fine. The indoor courts are pretty quiet during the summer but they get really busy mid to late fall until mid to late spring.

The ideal solution in my opinion would be to build a second field house with tennis court surfaces or give us back our third court. I do not know if the amount of tennis demand justifies it. We do have players that come here from out-of-state to use our courts because court time is $16/hour and it's $26 - $42 / hour at the other club in the area.

 

[optic yellow]

This guy wanted their traditional outdoor surface indoors

total *****

Also nb the true "traditional" court is absolutely the indoor hardwood.

 

[veelium]

There is one indoor court near me and its £20 an hour. I'm not sure how that compares to other places but it feels a lot to me. At least it gives me an excuse to recover from any minor injuries over the winter.

Damn, so cheap.

 

[TBM]

Damn, so cheap.

£40-£60 to play a full match is really expensive to me. I'm sure other places are even more expensive but I think that kind of price is extortionate.

I'm presuming your local indoor courts are crazy expensive?

 

[veelium]

£40-£60 to play a full match is really expensive to me. I'm sure other places are even more expensive but I think that kind of price is extortionate.

I'm presuming your local indoor courts are crazy expensive?

Not much more but more.
There are off-times like 8am or 9pm where it's around £20 (converting from euro with 1.2 rate).
The busy times it's around £30 and otherwise around £25.

 

[Move]

total *****

Also nb the true "traditional" court is absolutely the indoor hardwood.

I once read that "Kolya" Davydenko engrained his flawless baseline strokes on an indoor, wooden tennis court in Germany back in the days
Sorry for derailing the thread about (not) using poly strings ....

 

[AJBM]

Try Tecnifibre HDMX... the closest to a poly feeling without the pain!
Solinco Vanquish is also a stiff and control poly... worth a try!

Solinco Vanquish is not a poly but a multi. A nice one too!