Actually S&V still works, it is the volley that isn't working anymore.

[Golden Retriever]

Thats why Dr. Ivo is almost unbreakable. If you have a good serve it is always a good play to finish off a weak and short return with a volley. In fact thats how the volley is utilized these days, it is used to finish off a weak and short return either from a service return or in the middle of a rally.

However volleys can't be used to replace groundstrokes like they used to. You can't just go from a neutral rally, hit a slice approach shot then go to the net and start volleying. You need a short and weak ball, some kind of opening before you venture to the net. The serve for one can give you that kind of opening thats why S&V still works.

 

[BreakPoint]

Serve and volley has been a part of tennis from the very beginning and always will be.

It's just too easy to hit volleys into the wide open court after you've pulled your opponent wide with a spin serve.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

so Federer needs to start to SV so that he has a chance v Rafa, Djoker and Murray.

5 losses in a row v Rafa
5 losses in a row v Murray
2 losses in a row v Djoker.

Time to change up his game and start to SV.

Serve and volley has been a part of tennis from the very beginning and always will be.

It's just too easy to hit volleys into the wide open court after you've pulled your opponent wide with a spin serve.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

The problem is that because of the returning, the first volley can be difficult to make into an offensive shot. But yes, I agree that it can be effective with the right variety of serves to a variety of locations in the box.

 

[egn]

so Federer needs to start to SV so that he has a chance v Rafa, Djoker and Murray.

5 losses in a row v Rafa
5 losses in a row v Murray
2 losses in a row v Djoker.

Time to change up his game and start to SV.

I think if Fed went back to the S+V or all court style he had in 2004 he could score a few wins for a while against the top 3 as it would be unexpected and helps his h2h with most of them. Gosh you think Fed would have done it by now after all he is so damn close apparently to Pete Sampras did he not learn anything from those exos?

 

[LanceStern]

I think if Fed went back to the S+V or all court style he had in 2004 he could score a few wins for a while against the top 3 as it would be unexpected and helps his h2h with most of them. Gosh you think Fed would have done it by now after all he is so damn close apparently to Pete Sampras did he not learn anything from those exos?

I was a huge advocate for this style of Federer back last year, and still am.

But when he tried an attacking, all court to the net game against Nadal, he got passed a lot.

I think volleying is the key to him beating the musketeers though. Because he's getting older and he's not going to be able to keep on going toe to toe, scrambling around the baseline versus the young'uns. It would wear him out quicker

 

[egn]

I was a huge advocate for this style of Federer back last year, and still am.

But when he tried an attacking, all court to the net game against Nadal, he got passed a lot.

I think volleying is the key to him beating the musketeers though. Because he's getting older and he's not going to be able to keep on going toe to toe, scrambling around the baseline versus the young'uns. It would wear him out quicker

Yea problem was he tried it the most in the French Open final...did he go to the net much in wimbledon.

 

[West Coast Ace]

Not sure the OP's premise is sound. Karlovic does it - because it's the ONLY way he could make a living as a tennis professional. He lacks the groundstrokes and mobility to play any other way.

And I agree that Fed should come to the net more - but only on good approaches. And because of the rackets and strings that's easier said than done. The defender can still hit a decent pass from bad positions.

 

[LanceStern]

Yea problem was he tried it the most in the French Open final...did he go to the net much in wimbledon.

I think he learned his lesson.

He did go to the net, but he often already won the point with a nice sharp forehand approach. He used the serve out wide to open court forehand very effectively.

The times I saw him at net, he was getting passed. Nadals' shots have so much spin that volleys are going to be kind of awkard, not direct put aways.

 

[BreakPoint]

And I agree that Fed should come to the net more - but only on good approaches. And because of the rackets and strings that's easier said than done. The defender can still hit a decent pass from bad positions.

But what approach shot is better than a big serve?

We're not talking about approaching the net off of a groundstroke, which is pretty much suicide these days, especially against the likes of Nadal. We're talking about serve AND volley, which is completely different from serve, hit a few groundstrokes, and then come into the net. We're also talking about crushing a return of serve into the corner and then following it into the net, which is also part of the S&V style.

The way I see it, there's only TWO opportunities to come to net in modern tennis - behind your own serve or behind your return off of your opponent's second serve. Why? Because when you're serving, your opponent is standing in the corner so there's a huge open court to hit your first volley into or to hit it behind your opponent while he's running to cover the open court. When your opponent in serving, he's standing near the middle of the court but if you can crush or slice a return deep into the opposite corner while he's still following through his service motion and off-balance, you can get him scrambling and force a weak reply from him which should make for an easy volley into the open court. Djokovic hit a few good returns like this today against Nadal but failed to follow his returns into the net and allowed Nadal to get away with a floating slice reply which Djokovic could have easily out away with a volley into the open court if he had only been at the net.

 

[LanceStern]

But what approach shot is better than a big serve?

We're not talking about approaching the net off of a groundstroke, which is pretty much suicide these days, especially against the likes of Nadal. We're talking about serve AND volley, which is completely different from serve, hit a few groundstrokes, and then come into the net. We're also talking about crushing a return of serve into the corner and then following it into the net, which is also part of the S&V style.

The way I see it, there's only TWO opportunities to come to net in modern tennis - behind your own serve or behind your return off of your opponent's second serve. Why? Because when you're serving, your opponent is standing in the corner so there's a huge open court to hit your first volley into or to hit it behind your opponent while he's running to cover the open court. When your opponent in serving, he's standing near the middle of the court but if you can crush or slice a return deep into the opposite corner while he's still following through his service motion and off-balance, you can get him scrambling and force a weak reply from him which should make for an easy volley into the open court. Djokovic hit a few good returns like this today against Nadal but failed to follow his returns into the net and allowed Nadal to get away with a floating slice reply which Djokovic could have easily out away with a volley into the open court if he had only been at the net.

Once again easaier said than done. I think it's much easier to hit a few good groundstrokes and force the short ball. Then hit an approach or outright winner and come to the net.

Definitely the easiest is coming behind a great serve. But coming in off a huge return is tough. It often takes the HITTER out of position, because you're going for a winner and are often planted to get as much force as possible. You leave yourself open too, because the returner will scramble to try to block the force back any direction.

 

[hoosierbr]

There are two kinds of players that made serve-and-volley work perfectly for them: guys with huge "pace" serves like Sampras and Krajicek and guys with huge "kick" serves like Edberg and Rafter.

As a player I'm of the latter mold and when I can get my serves to kick nice and high then the return tends to float and it makes my job a lot easier, the volley is much easier to put away when the return is floating just above your chest. The problem for those kinds of players was that service returns got better and they had to adapt. Edberg was already past his prime when that started to happen so he retired at 30, still had some years left in him though.

Rafter came along when service returns were better and he struggled for a while before he hit his stride. Injuries got the better of him, though he still could have played a little while longer. In his last year on tour even though his shoulder really hurt he still played well enough to take a run at a couple of the majors.

Guys like Sampras and Krajicek used more pace but enough spin as well so their serves were much harder to read than say Edberg, who basically did the same thing with each serve which, for him, worked fine. If someone came along who served like Sampras and volleyed as well Edberg that player would be Top 10 without a doubt.

In my opinion Roddick doesn't utilize his serve as he could. He has a great kicker out wide but uses it much too rarely. That's an easy serve-and-volley point for him and not a difficult volley either, especially since he's worked so hard to improve his net game.

Karlovic and Isner should, IMO, being kicking more serves and coming in behind them. They don't take advantage of their height in that regard and since Ivo plays a lot of serve-and-volley if he mixed a kicker or two in there every game he'd, I think, win a lot more matches.

 

[pmerk34]

Not sure the OP's premise is sound. Karlovic does it - because it's the ONLY way he could make a living as a tennis professional. He lacks the groundstrokes and mobility to play any other way.

And I agree that Fed should come to the net more - but only on good approaches. And because of the rackets and strings that's easier said than done. The defender can still hit a decent pass from bad positions.

The problem is that now your approaches need to be perfect on the pro tour. A good approach in 1990 at the pro level is considered a joke now with these strings. You used to see passing shots that went long all the time with the all gut set ups back then. Now the net rusher is target practice.

 

[gj011]

Karlovic does not serve & volley. He just serve.

 

[BreakPoint]

Once again easaier said than done. I think it's much easier to hit a few good groundstrokes and force the short ball. Then hit an approach or outright winner and come to the net.

Definitely the easiest is coming behind a great serve. But coming in off a huge return is tough. It often takes the HITTER out of position, because you're going for a winner and are often planted to get as much force as possible. You leave yourself open too, because the returner will scramble to try to block the force back any direction.

You can also slice a return deep into the corner which makes the ball bounce low and skid away so your opponent has to hit the ball up and since he's in the corner, you have an open court to hit the easy volley into.

As a surprise tactic, you can also chip the return short with backspin (basically a drop shot) as you approach the net which forces the server to stumble forward and dig up the shot and since the ball is so close to the net, they have to pop the ball up but you're standing right there for the putaway volley.

I employ both tactics regularly and they work and they're not that hard to do.

 

[LanceStern]

You can also slice a return deep into the corner which makes the ball bounce low and skid away so your opponent has to hit the ball up and since he's in the corner, you have an open court to hit the easy volley into.

As a surprise tactic, you can also chip the return short with backspin (basically a drop shot) as you approach the net which forces the server to stumble forward and dig up the shot and since the ball is so close to the net, they have to pop the ball up but you're standing right there for the putaway volley.

I employ both tactics regularly and they work and they're not that hard to do.

Isn't drop shots off the service return frowned on in professional tennis?

I don't know why, but I thought they were.

 

[BreakPoint]

Isn't drop shots off the service return frowned on in professional tennis?

I don't know why, but I thought they were.

Why, if they work?

The server certainly doesn't expect you to do it. Especially these days when nobody serves and volleys anymore, I think it's a great tactic. Obviously it wouldn't work so well against serve and volleyers.

 

[Cyan]

Karlovic does not serve & volley. He just serve.

True dat. ..................