Adding weight to butt if racket “dead weight”

[TheNadural]

Was listening to a Roman Prokes podcast where he mentioned that some customizers view adding weight in the butt of a racket to be “dead weight”

My question is - does adding weight to the butt - to simply lower balance - improve the racket performance, and if so, in what way.

Let’s say I am generally pleased with my racket spec. Recoil/hitting weight is sufficient.

What does adding 5g in the butt do?

Pickup weight - essentially unchanged
Swing weight - essentially unchanged
MGRI - essentially unchanged
Twist weight - essentially unchanged
Static weight - up 5g
Recoil weight - up ~5
Balance - down .5 cm

Trying to understand what benefit I get if recoil weight isn’t a concern. Does adding weight simply to lower the balance offer some other benefit?

 

[jm1972]

Increases polarization.

 

[talynen]

Was listening to a Roman Prokes podcast where he mentioned that some customizers view adding weight in the butt if a racket to be “dead weight”

My question is - does adding weight to the butt simple to lower balance improve the racket performance and in what way.

Let’s say I am generally pleased with my racket spec. Recoil/hitting weight is sufficient.

What does adding 5g in the butt do?

Pickup weight - essentially unchanged
Swing weight - essentially unchanged
MGRI - essentially unchanged
Twist weight - essentially unchanged
Static weight - up 5g
Recoil weight - up ~5
Balance - down .5 cm

Trying to understand what benefit I get if recoil weight isn’t a concern. Does adding weight simply to lower the balance offer some other benefit?

Outside of recoil weight the only thing I think is significant is that it makes the racquet easier to maneuver up at the net once you take the top hand off the racquet.

The more weight is in the handle, the less strain on your wrist joints during most volleying motions.

That being said, I mainly use handle weight to achieve recoil weight targets without exceeding the target swing weight. I wouldn't keep adding weight to the bottom of the handle if I already have enough recoil weight.

 

[mmazzini1]

I agree it is mainly "dead weight", ++ on modern racquets. More manouvrable at the net, better comfort/shock absorption, may be, tad better stability?

 

[jm1972]

I agree it is mainly "dead weight", ++ on modern racquets. More manouvrable at the net, better comfort/shock absorption, may be, tad better stability?

Maneuverable at the net - swingweight
Better comfort/shock absortion - recoil weight
Better stability - swingweight/twistweight

 

[eric42]

Would defeat the laws of physics to be able to add weight AND increase maneuverability. What's being perceived here is the change in balance. As already mentioned buttcap weight is mostly for recoil weight and stability.

 

[BlueB]

What does adding 5g in the butt do?
...
MGRI - essentially unchanged

That's wrong.

 

[tele]

It is going to alter the static weight/I ratio, More static weight will increase the MOI of the COM about your body, but “I" will stay the same (as will mgr/I (edit: virtually unchanged) due to the decrease in balance) so the MOI about your wrist will stay virtually unchanged. Different versions of this balance might feel for natural to different people.

 

[CosmosMpower]

More maneuverable

 

[talynen]

That's wrong.

not if it's close to the bottom of the handle. Adding weight at the exact bottom of the racquet theoretically would have zero impact on MGR/I, so anything sufficiently close to the bottom (say within the bottom inch of the handle) will have negligible impact, hence "essentially unchanged"

If you want to test this yourself, try adding weight at length location "0" on this worksheet https://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customizationReverse.php
then compare the before/after specs of a racquet with an MGR/I calculator.

 

[TheNadural]

Would defeat the laws of physics to be able to add weight AND increase maneuverability. What's being perceived here is the change in balance. As already mentioned buttcap weight is mostly for recoil weight and stability.

This is what I’m trying to understand. I have a OHBH and read about how I need a 8+pt headlight balance but I think that perception may be an artifact of the general approach to rackets when OHBH was the rule and not then exception. Rackets were heavier in general and in the case of a heavy racket, having more weight in the handle can make sense for certain players and strokes.

But does adding weight simply to adjust the balance make sense? I don’t think so once you have reached the level of comfort and shock absorption. I think that comes from a combination of recoil, swing, and twist - and you can kinda play with those dials to get the comfort/shock absorption you want and minimize static weight while doing so vs worrying about balance.

I guess I’m trying to understand if balance is useful for comparing two different rackets, but not useful as a spec to target when customizing a racket - if you are able to measure variables like swing and twist.

 

[Grafil Injection]

If you add weight to the bottom of the handle, as we know that lowers the balance point, but that also equates to lowering the centre of mass of the whole racket, which is why it feels easier to swing. At least up to a point within the typical range of racket balance variation.

The impact of the lower CoM may also extend the sweet-zone down, and allow a good contact feel slightly lower in the hoop, which will make a racket feel more manoeuvrable as that point is closer to your hand. Just like using a shorter racket.

 

[jm1972]

If you add weight to the bottom of the handle, as we know that lowers the balance point, but that also equates to lowering the centre of mass of the whole racket, which is why it feels easier to swing. At least up to a point within the typical range of racket balance variation.

The impact of the lower CoM may also extend the sweet-zone down, and allow a good contact feel slightly lower in the hoop, which will make a racket feel more manoeuvrable as that point is closer to your hand. Just like using a shorter racket.

Don't know how else I can break it to you: no.

 

[Moldyoak]

This is getting interesting.

I've been under the assumption that adding weight down under the grip at the butt really doesn't affect anything measurable other than balance.

 

[eric42]

This is getting interesting.

I've been under the assumption that adding weight down under the grip at the butt really doesn't affect anything measurable other than balance.

When you hit a ball, the impact attempts to rotate the racquet around its center of mass, which is in the middle-ish of the frame. The more weight in the buttcap (or the hoop), the more inertia the racquet has for resisting this rotation on impact. This means more energy is transferred to the ball, and less energy absorbed by the racquet and your hand. This is the long and short of recoil weight. Weight in the butt cap of course has less of an impact on recoil weight than weight in the hoop, but the effect still exists.

 

[Injured Again]

This is what I’m trying to understand. I have a OHBH and read about how I need a 8+pt headlight balance but I think that perception may be an artifact of the general approach to rackets when OHBH was the rule and not then exception. Rackets were heavier in general and in the case of a heavy racket, having more weight in the handle can make sense for certain players and strokes.

But does adding weight simply to adjust the balance make sense? I don’t think so once you have reached the level of comfort and shock absorption. I think that comes from a combination of recoil, swing, and twist - and you can kinda play with those dials to get the comfort/shock absorption you want and minimize static weight while doing so vs worrying about balance.

I guess I’m trying to understand if balance is useful for comparing two different rackets, but not useful as a spec to target when customizing a racket - if you are able to measure variables like swing and twist.

There are some specs to which I'm pretty sensitive and others to which I'm pretty insensitive so I might be a total outlier here. To me, the balance point affects the feel of swinging the racquet more than anything else. The racquet will want to pivot around its center of mass and I can sense that, especially on shots where the racquet rotates along its long axis. Those shots would be the serve and to a lesser extent the forehand if your technique has wrist lag. I hit a OHBH and any lengthwise rotation is so slow with my technique that balance doesn't seem to affect the feel from that side. On my backhand, I tend to rotate the racquet in a spinning motion, i.e., the racquet face stays oriented at the same angle but supination of my forearm rotates the head from below my wrist to above my wrist through the shot while the racquet face is primarily vertically oriented in the foot or two prior to and after the contact point.

In the end, I think it's mostly an individual thing which parameters you're going to notice and/or be affected by, depending on how you produce your shots and to a lesser extent what the weaknesses are in your technique that cause you to miss.

 

[Shroud]

I was putting 15g (left) and 18g (right) on the end of the buttcap. It certainly seemed to be more maneuverable

IMG 1243 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG 1243 hosted on ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[A_Instead]

I just put 13 grams at the end of my Blade 101l butt cap.
It definitely gave it more power and made it more solid.
I also have two overgrips and 2 grip collars.
Next phase will be lead in the hoop.

 

[TheNadural]

I was putting 15g (left) and 18g (right) on the end of the buttcap. It certainly seemed to be more maneuverable

IMG 1243 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG 1243 hosted on ImgBB

ibb.co

More maneuverable in what regard? Do you believe there is an associated performance improvement?

 

[Shroud]

More maneuverable in what regard? Do you believe there is an associated performance improvement?

It just seemed whippier and more solid. It was decades ago but once i had a racquet i plastidipped which looked cool but ended up at 16oz and was really hard to swing. I added a 25g brass weight to the butt and it was playable.

Post in thread 'Same swingweight, keep adding weight to the handle'

Dec 5, 2020

If I keep adding weight to the handle, how does racquet behavior change?

Does "maneuverability" really increase as racquet gets more head-light if swingweight remains the same?

I have had a few occasions where I was able to make a sluggish racquet playable by adding substantial weight to the handle.

I had a racquet I put plastidip on. I ended up adding a ton more weight than what I had anticipated and the racquet was over a pound when I got done with it. It was almost impossible to swing and time consistently. I fixed it by adding a 25g brass disc the buttcap. That stick was...

• Shroud

 

[TheNadural]

It just seemed whippier and more solid. It was decades ago but once i had a racquet i plastidipped which looked cool but ended up at 16oz and was really hard to swing. I added a 25g brass weight to the butt and it was playable.

Post in thread 'Same swingweight, keep adding weight to the handle'

Dec 5, 2020

If I keep adding weight to the handle, how does racquet behavior change?

Does "maneuverability" really increase as racquet gets more head-light if swingweight remains the same?

I have had a few occasions where I was able to make a sluggish racquet playable by adding substantial weight to the handle.

I had a racquet I put plastidip on. I ended up adding a ton more weight than what I had anticipated and the racquet was over a pound when I got done with it. It was almost impossible to swing and time consistently. I fixed it by adding a 25g brass disc the buttcap. That stick was...

• Shroud

I think you’re getting into are there benefits to counterbalancing a sledgehammer territory - which isn’t the same question I started this thread with

 

[Shroud]

I think your getting into are there benefits to counterbalancing a sledgehammer territory - which isn’t the same question I started this thread with

Well its the experience i have. And where does a racquet become a sledge hammer and the effects magically kick in?

Anyhow its a simple test with poster putty/ blue tak and some coins