RF20Lennon
Legend
I have to admit. I LOLed at some point during our debate.
If you hadn't I would've failed as a poster
Admit it...Nole is not as dominant and consistent as Federer
- Thread starter TMF
- Start date
If you hadn't I would've failed as a poster
CYGS
Legend
RF20Lennon
Legend
CYGS
Legend
Okay, this one is tough to beat. Give me two/three years to train Djokovic how to beat that.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Will do! While you're at it. Train Fed to win 1-2 more. Thanks mate!
CYGS
Legend
That's your pokemon. Don't be lazy
E
Emperor of Belgrade
Guest
Well, at least one debate between two posters has been a friendly one.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Actually Gasquet was Top 10 when Nole was still playing for Wilson.
RF20Lennon
Legend
Like I've have mentioned before, Federer's streaks and numbers were accomplished when he was at Nole's current age or younger. Even if you give Nole another 6 years, he's not going to reach 23 straight semifinals, 7 straight Wimbledon finals, or 56 consecutive match wins on hard court. Federer's long list of records and streaks will not be broken by Nole, it's too late at the age 28.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
Roddick-Djokovic H2H: 5-4
All 5 wins are after 2008.
Slice'n'dice
Hall of Fame
If Nadal and Federer were to play a match now, Nadal would probably stil win. So I suppose Nadal is better than Federer right now.
3fees
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic has set so many records it isnt funny, winning 6 ATP M1ks in 2015 and 3 slams is only second to Rod Laver, Djokovic has matured and improved his clay court play and has a real chance at 4 slams this year and next year and possibly the year after.
As I said it some time ago, Federer will never beat Djokovic in a slam again, now he not only he has to keep Federer ,Nadal, Staniamal and Murray Down, he has watch out for being knocked by lesser player , like what happen Federer, losing in the 1st rnd of Shanghai M1K.
Cheers
3fees
As I said it some time ago, Federer will never beat Djokovic in a slam again, now he not only he has to keep Federer ,Nadal, Staniamal and Murray Down, he has watch out for being knocked by lesser player , like what happen Federer, losing in the 1st rnd of Shanghai M1K.
Cheers
3fees
The Fedfather
Legend
Not so sure about that. However, if this were to happen, it would mean either that Roger's level is below Rafa's or, which is more likely, that the 'always go to the backhand' tactic from Nadal still works and that mentally it's still hard for Roger to play against Rafa.
TommyA8X
Hall of Fame
Fed's done that for 4 years straight, so relax.Djokovic has set so many records it isnt funny, winning 6 ATP M1ks in 2015 and 3 slams is only second to Rod Laver, Djokovic has matured and improved his clay court play and has a real chance at 4 slams this year and next year and possibly the year after.
As I said it some time ago, Federer will never beat Djokovic in a slam again, now he not only he has to keep Federer ,Nadal, Staniamal and Murray Down, he has watch out for being knocked by lesser player , like what happen Federer, losing in the 1st rnd of Shanghai M1K.
Cheers
3fees
metsman
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic got destroyed by Nadal on clay in 2012. 2005-2010 Nadal was better than 2011, 2013-2014 versions that Djoker beat by a clear margin. It doesn't matter how Djoker did against 2011 2013-2015 Nadal. Federer at his peak/prime faced versions of Nadal that were better, and when Djokovic faced similar versions of Nadal he got taken to the cleaners worse than Fed did despite a favorable matchup.
Also Federer has other wins over Djoker on clay, including one in 08 when Djoker by games won% was as good as he was in 2012-2014 and that was a year in which he got to the semis of Hamburg, taking a set off peak Nadal, getting to the semis of the French, losing to peak Nadal, and winning Rome. His level that year on clay was not appreciably lower than 2012-2014 and Fed was still beating him comfortably in MC before he "quit".
Federer and Djoker are 4-4 on clay. Tied 1-1 at RG...Except Federer beat Djokovic close to his best form while Djoker beat a horrible Federer in the 12 semi and 12 Rome (hampered by the back injury he sustained at Madrid, serving crap and spraying errors both matches). If we are going to use that to predict how peak Fed does vs peak Djoker, those matches are advantage Fed.
Peak Djoker vs AARPerer: Rome 2015 and MC 2014 cancel each other out. Djoker should have comfortably won both matches given Fed sucks on clay these days but he got wrecked Monte Carlo, I'll give him a pass because he had an injured wrist apparently. Scratch, but really an edge to Fed.
The other two meetings...2008 MC like we already went over. 2009 Rome, Federer was in a deep rut after the AO and was still up a set and a break in that match which he blew. He had lost to Wawrinka in straights I think the previous week at MC. The 2008 MC win is convincing and over an in form Djokovic. Again, advantage to peak Federer in the peak Federer vs peak Djoker hypothetical.
Obviously the 2006 matches on clay don't mean anything. Remember this when Djokovic fans bring up 2014-2015 wins over Federer as if they mean anything...
The only argument Djokovic fans have is that Djoker beat prime, BUT NOT PEAK, nadal at Masters events ...except peak/prime Fed never faced prime nadal on dirt. And despite the matchup issue Federer pushed peak Nadal on dirt harder than Djoker ever did. So again advantage for peak Federer over peak Djokovic. So you really really have to reach to have a convincing argument for Djokovic>Federer on clay.
Slice'n'dice
Hall of Fame
Ah so h2h is ok to use to say Federer is better than Murray but not Nadal better than Federer. So you can have your cake and eat it too.
You think Murray plays at his best when he plays Federer now? He doesn't have any mental issues with playing him these days. He didn't used to when Federer was clearly a better player and it was only recently Federer turned the h2h in his favour. Federer has actually done considerably better against Murray when Murray has been a better and more established player. The fact is that since 2012 when they played Federer would be the more likely winner. Before then Murray going on the numbers. If the h2h based argument that you continue to apply to this is the case (which is weird for a Fed fan, yet so many use it), then Murray was a superior player before 2012 and Federer since then. Seems ridiculous.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
Federer beat Nadal last time they played in Basel but you'll probably say now that it wasn't on clay.
Nadal could only climb up to No.5 recently while Federer has been No.2 and 3 for a long time and can beat the No.2 Murray on any given day.
I am a Fedal fan and I wish Rafa the best but saying Nadal is better than Federer right now is beyond ridiculous.
mattosgrant
Banned
I think it comes down to Federer has figured out Murray's game completely now and perfected the tactics to use against him. It happens. So far Murray hasn't been able to counter this new situation.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
The Fedfather
Legend
I love cake, I can't help myself.
On a serious note, I don't know whether Murray plays his best against Federer so let's look at some other statistics, shall we? We'll start with the obvious one. In 2015 Federer reached the finals of 2 GS, Murray reached 1. In 2015 Federer defeated Novak Djokovic (reference point in tennis atm) 3 times while Murray was able to do it just once. Federer finished 2015 with 6 titles to Murray's 4. Andy has the edge in Masters 1000 titles (2-1), Roger was a WTF finalist. Finally, at the start of 2016 both played against Djokovic and I assume that you know who did better. Oh, and Andy managed to take a set off Roger in their last 5 matches, I guess that might be indicative in a way. So, going back to the initial argument, the suggestion that Murray's current level is higher than Federer's seems ridiculous.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Fans can skew stats as much as they want. Don't know what 171 replies are here for. Yes, Nole is not as dominant and consistent as Federer yet. Should be end of thread.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
BrooklynNY
Hall of Fame
TMF must hate tennis right now
mattosgrant
Banned
TMF has always hated tennis. His only pleasure is living some form of perverse artificial glory completely void in his own life through Federer, as if Federer's achievements and successes and whether he is GOATy or not or keeps his records or not is his own, and gaining some kind of sick pleasure from any failures of players he hates/has a burning jealousy of (eg- Serena, Nadal).
Slice'n'dice
Hall of Fame
On probably any other surface other than that (an even that is pushing it) Nadal would be the favourite and would probably win. I am using the posters logic and applying it to that, that's what my point is, it's ridiculous as clearly Federer is a far better player than Nadal at the moment but Nadal would still beat him more often than not. Which leads me to the next post....
Exactly this, which is what Nadal did to Federer, nothing to do with who is the better player. I don't think Nadal is a greater player than Federer, nor was he a better player overall at the time of many of his victories. Just like Federer isn't a better player than Murray because Federer does well against Murray/Murray does poorly against Federer these days.
I love cake, I can't help myself.
Well seeing as we all have our biases so lets look at it in objective terms. The rankings aren't biased, they assign points to results and then whoever has more points is higher in the rankings. Murray has more points and is someone who is a contender for all four grand slams instead of two. Half of the big events, Federer is essentially an irrelevance for. He could be beaten by anyone and everyone, of course he's still an excellent player and still has runs, but he doesn't have the consistency anymore, he wasn't the player he was, and the chances are, he is done winning slams.
I love Federer too but Murray is the better player overall these years, as I say, the rankings are objective, you are not.
BrooklynNY
Hall of Fame
3fees
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic is just reaching his prime and Federer never won 6 Master 1000's in a year, He'll probably win 6 again or 7 this year so relax.
Cheers
3Fees
TommyA8X
Hall of Fame
Djokovic has been in his prime for years.Djokovic is just reaching his prime and Federer never won 6 Master 1000's in a year, He'll probably win 6 again or 7 this year so relax.
Cheers
3Fees
Fed won 3 slams + WTF 3 times, and reached 4 slam finals 3 times as well.
Djokovic only managed this once so far. We're not gonna give some imaginary, potential titles he hasn't won yet this year.
That's pretty impressive, but as impressive as Federer, especially at the grand slam tournaments.
That's correct.56 match win streak on hard courts
Best Tennis Win Streaks
Longest WTA Match Win Streak:Martina Navratilova - 74 (1984)
Longest ATP Match Win Streak: Guillermo Vilas - 46 (1977)
Longest WTA Match Win Streak On Clay: Chris Evert - 125 (1973-1979)
Longest ATP Match Win Streak On Clay: Rafael Nadal - 81 (2005-2007)
Longest WTA Match Win Streak On Hard: Steffi Graf - 82 (1988-1990)
Longest ATP Match Win Streak On Hard: Roger Federer - 56 (2004-2006)
Longest WTA Match Win Streak On Grass: Martina Navratilova - 47 (1985-1987)
Longest ATP Match Win Streak On Grass: Roger Federer - 65 (2003-2008)
Longest WTA Match Win Streak On Carpet: Martina Navratilova - 48 (1986-1987)
Longest ATP Match Win Streak On Carpet: Ivan Lendl - 66 (1981-1983)
Most Consecutive WTA Singles Titles: Martina Navratilova - 13 (1984)
Most Consecutive ATP Singles Titles: Bjorn Borg - 8 (1979-1980), Ivan Lendl - 8 (1981-1982), John McEnroe - 8 (1983-1984)
Click on the hyperlink below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Roger_Federer
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
The Fedfather
Legend
delete post
Last edited:
E
Emperor of Belgrade
Guest
2005 WTF was played on carpet. The time span is from 2005 AO to 2006 Dubai I believe.
N
Navdeep Srivastava
Guest
Ya then it is possible.
The 56 match wins streak started after he lost to Safin in 2005 AO. His first match win was in 2005 Rotterdam, the 56th wins came in Dubai 2006.
The 2005 Master Cup in Shanghai was played on carpet.
Possible? It's a fact that he won 56 straight matches on hard court. No need to question this record.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Martina winning 13 titles in a row is just
N
Navdeep Srivastava
Guest
I think during this time she won 6 slams in a rowMartina winning 13 titles in a row is just
Fiero425
Legend
People were making such a big deal of Roger's age in comparison to Nole, but now they don't mention it in conjunction with the longevity of the man and the records he holds! That makes no sense; can't have it both ways! ;-)
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
Navratilova would have won back-to-back 2 CYGS had she not lost 1-2 to Chris Evert in AO '82.
AO was still played on grass back then but was different then W grass.
Fiero425
Legend
Navratilova would have won back-to-back 2 CYGS had she not lost 1-2 to Chris Evert in AO '82.
AO was still played on grass back then but was different then W grass.
AO was always a rotten place to play; bad grass, very windy, and you're dealing with bugs in your face while playing! It doesn't look much better except for the court! Close-ups show the players are munching flies and other small bugs swirling around their heads! ;-)
heftylefty
Hall of Fame
Djokovic is dominant now. Why try to make it less than what it is?
dr325i
G.O.A.T.
You really believe that Stan, Monfils, Isner, Berdych and Ferrer played better 8 years ago than today?
Similar threads
