Advancing from 5.5 to 6.0

Koaske

Rookie
First I'd like to say that I'm certainly not 5.5 or 6.0. Just wondering what's needed at that point to advance to the next level. Most NTRP infos just say "these players have national ranking and seriously consider of taking part in Satellite tournaments" or something like that. Is it just more consistency, better muscle strength , better strategies and improving strokes?
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
TOP notch consistancy, thats the KEY at that level. some say its strategy, stamina, but w/e you do, with out consistancy, you can not compete at that level. and DEFENSE. anyone can put away a floater, but getting them back with depth and pace is what seperates the different levels.

consistancy and defense imo is what makes you better when u get over the 4.0 hump.

but in perspective, everything else has to be better as well too.
 

Thanatos

Semi-Pro
donnyz89 said:
TOP notch consistancy, thats the KEY at that level. some say its strategy, stamina, but w/e you do, with out consistancy, you can not compete at that level. and DEFENSE. anyone can put away a floater, but getting them back with depth and pace is what seperates the different levels.

consistancy and defense imo is what makes you better when u get over the 4.0 hump.

but in perspective, everything else has to be better as well too.
I'd give my left b*$% for consistency.
 
I doubt if I will ever get to be a 5.0, so I may never know the answer. But I am guessing that the difference between a 6.0 and those at the next level below is unreal fitness, speed, and athletic abilities. I don't think that any amount of hard work can get a person to the 6.0 level unless he or she is also genetically gifted.
 

ferreira

Rookie
tennisplayer said:
I doubt if I will ever get to be a 5.0, so I may never know the answer. But I am guessing that the difference between a 6.0 and those at the next level below is unreal fitness, speed, and athletic abilities. I don't think that any amount of hard work can get a person to the 6.0 level unless he or she is also genetically gifted.
$$$$, lots of it, and lots of willpower, will likely do it. I suppose 6.0 is someone who can win a match or two in futures tournaments.I don't think you have to be genetically gifted. 6.5 and 7.0, though, are completely different stories. I think you have to be gifted mentally and pysically to make it to the 150's and even more so to make it to the 50's. Consistent Top 10 is basically being somewhat of a genius.
 

Tim Tennis

Professional
Koaske said:
First I'd like to say that I'm certainly not 5.5 or 6.0. Just wondering what's needed at that point to advance to the next level. Most NTRP infos just say "these players have national ranking and seriously consider of taking part in Satellite tournaments" or something like that. Is it just more consistency, better muscle strength , better strategies and improving strokes?
That is so interesting. A 5.0 to me is one hell of a good player. I would think to go from 5.5 to 6.0 would require some intangibles kicking in, like being able to read your opponent, find weaknesses, passive intimidation, understanding how to play the important points and percentages, tremendous self confidence, and "willpower", as Ferreria said.

It would be great to hear from someone that feels like they make the jump from 5.5 to 6.0. As for me I can't imagine playing on that level but it would be great.

I guess we could just look at the rating system.

You got to love the game.
 

Thanatos

Semi-Pro
tennisplayer said:
I doubt if I will ever get to be a 5.0, so I may never know the answer. But I am guessing that the difference between a 6.0 and those at the next level below is unreal fitness, speed, and athletic abilities. I don't think that any amount of hard work can get a person to the 6.0 level unless he or she is also genetically gifted.
Don't be so hard on yourself. Where there's a will, there's a way. It just takes alot of practice, learning the proper techniques, and of course money (lessons, indoor fees, ball machine, tournaments, etc.).
 
Thanks for the encouraging words, Thanatos. I know my limits, but that doesn't prevent me from trying my best to improve. It took a lot to get to 4.0 and then 4.5, and I'll be very happy if I can maintain enough fitness to stay here for a while!
 

Phil

Hall of Fame
ferreira said:
$$$$, lots of it, and lots of willpower, will likely do it. I suppose 6.0 is someone who can win a match or two in futures tournaments.I don't think you have to be genetically gifted. 6.5 and 7.0, though, are completely different stories. I think you have to be gifted mentally and pysically to make it to the 150's and even more so to make it to the 50's. Consistent Top 10 is basically being somewhat of a genius.
I don't agree. Probably 99.99999% of all non-professional tennis players, even if they threw all the money, time and willpower in the world into becoming a 6.0, could not do it. Those things will get you so far, and after that, it really depends on natural ability. I know some great players, 5.0's and 5.5's who have spent their lives playing, but will never reach 6.0. And then, 7.0 is on an entirely plane for talent and ability...
 
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SageOfDeath

Guest
I'm sorry but I don't believe that. I read somewhere that there was a pro and he started playing at 4 and played tennis 12 hours a day. I don't know how that works out maybe he's homeschooled? But anyways he became a pro.

I think becoming a 7.0 world class player takes an early start with the combination of $$$$, time, willpower.

The early start gives them better motor skills and cordination needed to play tennis even if they won't remember for a second at a young age of technique.

Its like school, put us long enough there and eventually we have to learn something.
 

Phil

Hall of Fame
SageOfDeath said:
I'm sorry but I don't believe that. I read somewhere that there was a pro and he started playing at 4 and played tennis 12 hours a day. I don't know how that works out maybe he's homeschooled? But anyways he became a pro.

I think becoming a 7.0 world class player takes an early start with the combination of $$$$, time, willpower.

The early start gives them better motor skills and cordination needed to play tennis even if they won't remember for a second at a young age of technique.

Its like school, put us long enough there and eventually we have to learn something.
Yeah, you might learn something, but you aren't gonna be no Einstein, even after 12 or 16 years of school. Fact is, no matter how much a person plays, or how much money they throw into it, they are, at some point, limited by their talent or lack thereof, except, of course for those who have pro ability. And most people do not start playing at 4; those who do, may or may not become a "6.0"; many just burn out.
 
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SageOfDeath

Guest
I don't believe that. If someone has the time, $$$, and willpower, god bless them, to become an einstein they will.

If anyone has played willingly for 15 years (starting at a young age), 10 hours a day (seriously) , had a coach to condition you, and had the willpower, raise your hand if you failed to become pro.

Anyone who raises their hand had to fail one of those conditions, or it was a complete joke.

Thomas Edison created the lightbulb, but before he did it, he created over 10,000 ways not to create a lightbulb. I wouldn't say he's a natural born genius, just a person who tried very very hard.
 

krnboijunsung

Semi-Pro
I think anybody has great potential equal to anybody else, it's just that most take forever reaching the potential, or something blocks their way to reaching it.

Say for instance Federer and Roddick. Roddick could turn to be Federer's level someday. Roddick could finally get a return game, a better backhand, and a more consistent forehand, and therefore reach Federer's level, it's just that Roddick might take a longer time doing it, while Federer is already at the high level he's in.
 

joe sch

Legend
Phil said:
I don't agree. Probably 99.99999% of all non-professional tennis players, even if they threw all the money, time and willpower in the world into becoming a 6.0, could not do it. Those things will get you so far, and after that, it really depends on natural ability. I know some great players, 5.0's and 5.5's who have spent their lives playing, but will never reach 6.0. And then, 7.0 is on an entirely plane for talent and ability...
I agree with Phil.
Just to compete at a 5.5 level, you need to be a very good athlete, in very good cardiovasular condition and be a very skilled tennis player. To get to this skill level in tennis usually takes a good part of a decade or some intense training with some outstanding coach(es). From 5.5 to world class is very much exceptional mental capability and god given talent.
 

Christopher

New User
Has anyone got a guide for a Brit as to what these levels are? I could maybe acess myself so I can understand what you guys mean.
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
Phil... 99.99999% dont make it to 6.0?

so 1/1 million tennis players will make 6.0? is that the truth statsically speaking? i mean, there might be 2000(if u take top 200 per age group, and some more) under 18 players per state that really plays seriously. some more or less, thats only about 100,000 in the US, not nearly 1 million. and im sure at least 3-5% of the 100,000 are 6.0 satelite players.
 

Cruzer

Professional
A 6.0 is going to be in the top 250-300 in the world. If you don't have the athletic talent to play in that company no amount of time or money is going to get you there.
 

kicker75

Rookie
I met a former satellite pro who was ranked about 230 in the world at one point, and this was his opinion. Basically, he said that once you get to 300 and up in the world, everyone can play the "technical" part of the game and are relatively in the same fitness level. In fact, he said, some of the lower ranked guys hit the baller harder than the top pros and some had better strokes in general. He said the difference was the mental game and the confidence. From his statement, I guess that's what seperates the higher levels from a 6.0.

Again, this is one person's opinion...
 
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SageOfDeath

Guest
Can you make decent dough if you actually get to a 6.0 level? I mean I always thought tennis wouldn't get me anywhere because I never thought I would get good enough to became a world class player but can you make money being a 6.0 player?

I mean even if you don't win a whole tournament you would still get some money from sponsers for using their product and for commercials right?
 
SageOfDeath said:
Can you make decent dough if you actually get to a 6.0 level? I mean I always thought tennis wouldn't get me anywhere because I never thought I would get good enough to became a world class player but can you make money being a 6.0 player?

I mean even if you don't win a whole tournament you would still get some money from sponsers for using their product and for commercials right?
You can be any 3.0+ tennis and make money. Its called tutoring and teaching. But yes, about 6.0+ you start raking in the cash.
 

theace21

Hall of Fame
Top level players must practice against similar players. Not going to make that jump with out playing on a outstanding college team or the pro satillite circuits. Many tournaments still have qualifiers, that you can maybe get into the main draw...
 
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SageOfDeath

Guest
yea of course you can get money from tutoring and teaching but it doesn't get you mucho $$$ does it?
 

phil10s

New User
I'm gonna ruffle some feathers here, but here goes.

You can get to 5.0, even if you started late in life (by late i mean teens or early 20s, maybe 30's if you're a jock).

5.5 is a big leap to make. I view 5.5 more for people coming down from above then people coming up from the bottom.

6.0- I think the NTRP Guidelines are dead on here. If you played Top College Tennis (D1 top teams,D2 top ranked as an individual, maybe top 10 ranked D3 in the country) then you are there.

I was an NTRP Verifier back before the USTA went to this self rating hoax (Casue they are lazy). This is the honest to god things you can hear other verifiers tell you in a closed room when they are debating what your level is. What they say to your face is their attempt to keep your business.

Also- If you wait for the Computer to "move you up" that far through playing in USTA Leagues, then use your hopes and dreams to play the lottery. Twice in ten years I have seen a 5.0 get moved up to 5.5, and there isnt even organized play for anything above 5.0 (Open, but some sections dont put those results in the "GREAT OZ" computer)

Truly... the difference between 5.5/6.0/6.5 is almost hard to describe. I'v even heard some national verifiers say that only the top 200 players in the world are 7.0's. I think thats just being picky.... but the whole setup is picky.

OK.. START THE DISAGREEMENT! Ha
 

dakels

Rookie
No argument here phil10s. I would agree with everything you said. I personally have always viewed 5.0 as a cutoff for most people. Beyond 5.5 starts to define pro calibre against those who put alot of recreational effort and time in with some athleticism. 6+ requires alot more then intense training. A person without exceptional talents is not going to get past 6.0 with just trained skill IMO. 6+ is a job/career not a sports hobby. Also from what I have seen most people do not make 6.0 later in their tennis life. It is a steady growth to high/pro level which is nurtured through their learning/training process. Meaning a person playing 20 years *for the most part* isnt going to all of a sudden work hard and go from 5.0 to 6+.

Oh and to the people saying 6+ is raking in the dough... they really aren't... I know several satellite players and 1 who is top 10 WTA. The satellite players make alot more money at the end of the day teaching for $80-100/hour at some rich club then they did touring. Touring costs a fortune so alot of the money they make is spent keeping you going hence why often until a player breaks a certain level, they typically do local (country/regional) tournaments. When they do travel, there is usually a network of places and contacts that a player will have arranged for them so they can avoid hotel costs to save money. Not to mention some may have to payback some earnings to their sponsors (fairly common outside of the US). Even the top 10 WTA player was not making a ton of money until she broke the top 30 and got alot more expensive sponsorship. In fact even then for a top 30 player she wasn't rich or anything. Now she is doing really well (mainly because she won a grand slam) and it has payed off but she never had much until now.

Unless you got great marketability (ala kournikova), until you win alot, you dont make much money in tennis. Its rather sad that a top 500 tennis player in the world might be LUCKY to take home $50k a year after all expenses paid, while a top 500 baseball player or basketball is probably in a $1+million/year contract.
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
yea... pro tennis player isnt the best paid sport.

not only do you have to pay TONS AND TONS of money as a youngster, even at that, the chance of you making the money as a pro is VERY slim. so anyone who is willing to pay their way to the pros (you HAVE to pay your way, unlike basketball and football, talent just isnt enough), chances are you will loose more money than you will eventually earn, which is nothing. still good experience...

wow now think about it, besides the enjoyment part, tennis really isnt a "financially" profitable sport if u want to excel at it.
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
SageOfDeath said:
yea of course you can get money from tutoring and teaching but it doesn't get you mucho $$$ does it?
well... the pro I work with, 3 hours, 10 kids its 34$ per kid so about 100$ per hour. then he has private lessons 50$ per hour. so he would earn a good 400-500$ per day teaching tennis in the summer. thats say... 20 days a month, 2 month of the summer... thats quite a bit of money. IF he does this every day, he would make over 10g, thats proly what my dad makes and he has a PHD and is an engineer at General Motors.
 

shindemac

Hall of Fame
My brother's coworker's brother is a touring pro. Looking at his record, he's still struggling at the future's level and he's ranked in the 800's. Futures usually have a 10000 total pot, and he gets maybe 100 or 2 each week he plays. I don't know anyone who can survive on that, but then I remember their parents are rich and probably support them.

Donnyz89, you must be young. 10000 a year is not a lot of money and anyone could make that working at mcdonalds. Your dad makes a lot more, probably 80k to 100k if not more.
 
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SageOfDeath

Guest
If you read his post he means 10,000 in 2 months of summer. But I agree that is still not a lot of money to get by.
 

shindemac

Hall of Fame
Yea, my bad. I think his post is a bit ambiguous. He does mention summer, then says if he did it everyday. Then he goes on to compare against his dad, who gets paid by a yearly salary. But looking more closely at the numbers, I think he means 10k a month, which would be good then. But then the pro would have to be teaching year round, but then how the heck can he travel and play in all those tournaments. Tennis pros get the short end of the stick, even the top ones I believe.
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
yea 10k a month and thats only about 5-6 hours of teaching per day. He is also the head pro at a pretty big local club, and imo you make more teaching in the winter beacuse of the court fees, i could be wrong. He also said he use to be the head coach for a top notch highschool in the state. So Im gonna assume he doesnt have a REAL 8 hr job and he makes most of his money off tennis. Im sure you dont have to PLAY tennis to make money, he is im guessing a decent 5.0 teaching pro, he is very knowledgable of the game, not just some dude that hits and feeds you balls.
 

kevhen

Hall of Fame
Why do tennis players think they need to spend alot on lessons to become good players? You don't take expensive lessons in other sports like soccer, baseball, or basketball. You just learn as you go in those sports learning from your mistakes while listening and watching how others play. Same goes for tennis.
 

Thanatos

Semi-Pro
kevhen said:
Why do tennis players think they need to spend alot on lessons to become good players? You don't take expensive lessons in other sports like soccer, baseball, or basketball. You just learn as you go in those sports learning from your mistakes while listening and watching how others play. Same goes for tennis.
It all depends on how fast you want to get to the 5.0+ level. Some of us, have regular jobs and play tennis as a hobby, therefore we can take our time getting or at least try to get to the 5.0 level. Others (ie. juniors), need to get there faster and require a qualified coach to speed up the process.
 

kevhen

Hall of Fame
But some people don't have the talent and athleticm to ever get to 5.0 yet they still spend tons of money chasing the holy grail.
 

dakels

Rookie
kevhen said:
Why do tennis players think they need to spend alot on lessons to become good players? You don't take expensive lessons in other sports like soccer, baseball, or basketball. You just learn as you go in those sports learning from your mistakes while listening and watching how others play. Same goes for tennis.
While in theory I would agree, but in practice most people are going to form bad habits and incomplete gameplay when doing this. Most (not everyone) needs an instructor at least once in a while to clean up their game. While many park players may have never gotten a true paid lesson, most people above 3.0 have gotten lessons or training at one point or another. Anyone who is of any seriousness in the sport 4.5-5.0 and above has gotten some serious lessons/coaching. Anyone wanting to make semi-pro and pro is not getting there without some training/coaching unless they are the tennis god incarnate.

I don't know what your definition of good is, but mine is someone who can seriously compete in a match/tournament no matter which sport (doesn't have to be like pro, but something competitve like a 4.0+ tourny). Tennis is especially one of those where plain natural ability won't get you *as far* as say something like running, pitching, etc and even those still require some training to clean up their mechanics, work it into game environments, etc. Tennis is not about 1 aspect of physical ability like running or throwing or hitting, its the culmination of alot of things.

Also in regards to the income of tennis teachers (per hour style, not salaried); Most teachers I know with: (all from my experience in the North NJ/NYC area)
-Pro/semi pro background and certifications make about $70-120/hour.
USPTA cert make about $50-70/hour.
-No USPTA cert or any certs make about $30-50/hour. (mainly students playing for HS or college)
-No certs, usually younger, mainly assistant teachers make $15-35/hour.

Alot of factors change this though. A fairly big name at a big expensive club can make some top money and keep a busy schedule. One guy I know has been in the US Open qualifers on several occasions not making it to the main draw, did better on a few lesser tournaments, played satellite and a head pro at a popular and expensive tennis club charges $110/hour privates and has a busy schedule (often at the club for 8-10 hours working 6-9 hours, 5-7 days a week, all year). This person probably makes roughly $200k-230k/year and $130-170k net after expenses (depending alot on how much help he uses).

Others who are certified I see make about $50-90k/year after expenses on a busy schedule.

The income depends highly on how full your schedule is. You can be the best coach around but if you dont have clients, might as well get another day job. Also some group programs can net you alot more money per hour then privates. One group I taught in (I was an instructor, not the head) the head guy got about $25/person x15 people (usually 1 instructor and court per 5) for 90 minutes and 2 multiple session. Minus some minor court costs and 3 helper instructors (he usually got college kids for cheap) he was netting about $175-200/hour. The trick was is that he is able to get that many people on a consistent basis. He did a great job in attracting clientele and worked in an tennis friendly area. He would give alot of privates in public courts, walk around help some random people and pass out his business cards.

Another big thing about profitablity is how much overhead you have. Tennis balls aren't cheap when you need 10-15 cases per month for heavily used hoppers. Court costs, your help, etc. Also, most teachers get payed often in cash or checks to cash. Alot of this is unreported to the IRS (WHICH IS ILLEGAL). Making $100k and reporting/only paying tax on say $50k is about $10-15k more in your pocket. This is highly illegal though and you risk going to jail, unfortunatley most "under the table" professions do this though at their own risk.

In many areas to many people, teaching tennis (golf too) is alot of image moreso then alot of of other sports when attracting clients. Many adult people aren't looking for Mick (from Rocky), they are looking for some yuppy in a white sweater and maybe played in the US Open (no matter how crappy he did). While it's not Polo, tennis in most areas still has a general image of catering to the more yuppy affluent crowd.
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
because tennis is not a natrual sport... it needs to be taught and taught correctly.

unlike baseball, if u were ask to throw a baseball, u could never touched one in your life, but u might be an exceptionally gifted athelete thats strong as an ox and could throw the ball 80-90 mph.

or basketball, not hard... if u are gifted and tall u can learn to the put the ball in the basketball without much instruction.

football, if u are 250 lbs, 6'5, bench 350, u can play varsity ANYWHERE you want.

tennis u cant do that. u give michael jordan a racquet, he cant beat a 10 yr old thats been playing for 2 yrs.
 

kevhen

Hall of Fame
But why do people spend so much money on lessons when they will probably not improve that much and it will never pay off anyway? I play other sports and improve at eveything the more I play without spending money on lessons. I observe and then try to emulate the skills I see that others have that are useful. With practice I improve. If I did more drills in other sports I would improve even more, but don't always have the time to drill but it would be as easy as reading a good drill book and then going out and practicing and not spending thousands on lessons.

The girl I have been dating is even more direct and goes up to all the area college tennis coaches and top players and asks for free lessons and usually gets them which is amazing but she does have alot of potential due to her strength, height, speed, power, and determination. But she doesn't spend money on lessons and is steadily improving now a 3.0 after starting at 2.5 at the beginning of the summer. I think she can get to women's 4.0 in a couple of years and she is pretty focused and won't pay a dime in lessons.
 

donnyz89

Hall of Fame
yes, u can get to 3.0 or 3.5 without serious lessons. But trust me, paying good money to a GOOD pro can really open your eyes sometimes. I never thought one pro could do much but after taking a lesson, my serve improved by at least 250%. the better u get with basic strokes, the more difficult things comes up that just watching the pros will not help because they make things so easy. things like strategies, footwork, positioning, and little things like that can not be learned by watching or playing. I was pretty much self taught at first and by watching tennis on TV, but it can only take me so far.

what is your experience though kehven? we cant tell u it works or not but what are your experiences with lessons and where are u at as far as tennis?
 

dakels

Rookie
Kevhen, you bring up a good point but your idea only works on the rarest of exceptions and only for a certain level of play. Many people (generally adults) paying for lessons do reach low plateaus and yes they won't show huge improvements even after years. This is contingent on alot of things though. Primarily their playstyle and athletic ability.

A solid commitment to training can make serious improvements to a player who has played poorly for years, this requires a huge effort which many are not willing to do. When I first started teaching I found it really disheartening to be teaching these people with horrible swing styles and horrible bushel basket rackets which only encouraged their terrible swing. To really get them out of the plateau they are in, it would require often a complete breakdown of their swing mechanics and rebuilding. This takes alot of time and effort which most adults are not willing to commit to, nor do they find it fun. People take lessons for all different reasons and surprisingly many do it for a guranteed workout and good hitting partner. Of course they want to play better but having fun and getting a workout is more of the priority to these people then rebuilding proper swing mechanics to get to 4.0+.

Another factor is the instructors. Go to your tennis clubs and look at some of the instructors. You will find many adult instructers are little better then feeders. They give half hearted instruction and do not really try to rebuild a good solid technique but make band aids to a bad swing style. You can't always blame them though due to what the client wants (as stated above).

People have different expectations and needs from tennis and lessons. We view things differently. Let's face it we are all here chatting about the game, equipment, mechanics, etc on a forum on our off time. We obviously view the game in a more serious and competitive manner then someone who plays with a 3" wide racquet and pays for a lessons once in a while at a expensive country club. Yes it's very true that some people are paying for lessons on a regular basis and not getting much better, but improving your game is al relative. While we may compare ourselves to higher standards, someone taking lessons might just be happy they learned to put the ball in the court better after 12 sessions of lessons.

As for getting free tips here and there. Not all players are friendly, knowledgeable, nor are the environments always condusive to instruction. Even if you are getting free advice most of it is coming from unqualified individuals, people who do not follow your style and progress, with the inability to properly work out changes and improvements with fed balls. I don't care who you are. Fed balls with proper instruction will ALWAYS help you learn mechanics better then trying to figure it out during a set or even rallying. Advanced understanding, yes you can improve certain aspects while hitting, but many fundamental things are learned faster, and often more accurately without bad habits by proper instruction and drilling. If by some miracle you get some knowledgable people who are willing to give you time here and there, more power to you, but the majority of us do not have that luxury.

Your girlfriend is lucky to be have access to free instruction and help. I know the ladies are gonna hate this one but... If I had boobs and and tennis skirt, I guarantee you I would get more free tennis tips :p

I am just kidding, I mean no offense.

I will even go as far as to state that I am one of those exceptions as well. (no I dont have boobs or wear skirts) Good players and luckily good coaches saw something in me and decided to take me under thier wing. I never had to pay for 1 lesson in my life. It often started by them seeing me hit and they would tell me a few things. I picked them up very fast and it piqued their interest. Soon I was helping them pickup balls/feed lessons and in between they taught me and also drilled me. Didn't take long for me to really improve my game from a wild and crazy flat hitting 2.5 to about a solid topsin 4.0 player in about a year. After that it was slow going though. Without more hours a day spent on my own drilling and match practices, I wasn't going above 4.0 so easily. I eventually was working out (not playing matches) against Div 1 college/semi pros and even a few pros. That is not to say I was as good as them, not even close but my rallying shots and practice points were good enough to work them out. Still, even though I got it for free, I really didn't since I partly worked with them, and it took several years of intense working and instructing to get there (I also had great coaches one was a NCAA head coach who let me practice with the team 2-3 times a week).

Again these are all rare exceptions and not something people can count on. In your day to day most people do not get very helpful tips or ones they are exercise to get better, at least not in the way drilling and lessons do. Also as I said, people have different needs and expecations from lessons. Don't frown on them if you are getting better then they are without lessons and they are paying $50/hour. We all have different learning curves and ability.

If you never took lessons and are serious about getting significantly better, try asking around to some good players (4.0+) and see who they recommend. Get 3 lessons and see how you feel about it after those 3.
 

ferreira

Rookie
forehander said:
Sorry guys, but Phil is right. Life isn't that fair. I wish it were. But it's not. :|
Life isn't fair. Not everybody has $$$$. By the way, I said $$$$ and willpower will take you to 6.0 very likely. But ONLY that far. Going to 6.5 and 7.0 are completely different things. $$$$ and willpower alone will NOT take you there alone. Let's not get be deceived by the 0.5 differences here.
 

ferreira

Rookie
kicker75 said:
I met a former satellite pro who was ranked about 230 in the world at one point, and this was his opinion. Basically, he said that once you get to 300 and up in the world, everyone can play the "technical" part of the game and are relatively in the same fitness level. (...)
I disagree. There is a very clear technical difference between players in the upper 50's and those around 150. Then, among those around 300. Angles, serve placement, returns, footwork...Physical differences are also rather evident when the going gets tough.
 

ferreira

Rookie
SageOfDeath said:
Can you make decent dough if you actually get to a 6.0 level? I mean I always thought tennis wouldn't get me anywhere because I never thought I would get good enough to became a world class player but can you make money being a 6.0 player?

I mean even if you don't win a whole tournament you would still get some money from sponsers for using their product and for commercials right?
If I am not mistaken, below 200 you get an ATP allowance and "sponsor" (Lotto gear), including pension eleigibility. It is somewhere on the ATP page.
 
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