Advantages of Neos 1000 > Gamma x-6fc

WisconsinPlayer

Professional
What are the advantages of a Prince Neos 1000 over a gamma x-6fc which I already currently own? The Prince has a stand which is nice, and it is a crank vs dropweight, which has both advantages and disadvantages. Is there anything else? Considering buying a 7 year old Neos and reselling my Gamma x-6fc which I bought a few months ago. In the future I will be buying a wise for whichever machine I keep/buy
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Neos mounting system is just as robust and fool proof as the X6FC. I am not so enamored with the glidebar clamps, but they will do the job. One issue is having to periodically check the calibration of the tensioner. Not that it would be wrong, but you do have to check periodically. Unless the force of gravity changes, you will never have to check the DW. I think you have a different rhythm when using a LO. The speed at which you crank will determine how much plastic elasticity you pull out of the string. With a DW, you just wait until it stops moving. Either machine will string frames well unless the user is a relative idiot ala Big Box Stringer. :D
 

WisconsinPlayer

Professional
Neos mounting system is just as robust and fool proof as the X6FC. I am not so enamored with the glidebar clamps, but they will do the job. One issue is having to periodically check the calibration of the tensioner. Not that it would be wrong, but you do have to check periodically. Unless the force of gravity changes, you will never have to check the DW. I think you have a different rhythm when using a LO. The speed at which you crank will determine how much plastic elasticity you pull out of the string. With a DW, you just wait until it stops moving. Either machine will string frames well unless the user is a relative idiot ala Big Box Stringer. :D
What were your problems with the neos glidebar? Would the Neos w/ Wise be a better machine than the gamma w/ wise?
 
Honestly, both machines are good. It's all preferences. I would just stick with your gamma and use the money to buy and install a wise 2086 head. I'm not really a fan of the glide bar because you have to adjust it when you're stringing the main and cross. I'm currently waiting for my wise to come in, so I can install on my progression II.
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
Well every racquet Tennis Warehouse sells strung is done on a Neos 1000. It's basically the reference when it comes to stringing machines.

The Neos 2 point mount dead simple and effective. I personally think it's better than the X6FC with maually adjusted outrigger supports but then again I prefer the 2 point mounts on the Neos 1000, Neos 1500 and Gamma 6004).

That said... were I to upgrade a X6FC, I would look for a machine with better swivel clamps (Gamma 6004 2 point would be a nice upgrade).
 
Well every racquet Tennis Warehouse sells strung is done on a Neos 1000. It's basically the reference when it comes to stringing machines.

The Neos 2 point mount dead simple and effective. I personally think it's better than the X6FC with maually adjusted outrigger supports but then again I prefer the 2 point mounts on the Neos 1000, Neos 1500 and Gamma 6004).

That said... were I to upgrade a X6FC, I would look for a machine with better swivel clamps (Gamma 6004 2 point would be a nice upgrade).

I also agree that the 2 point mount from the prince neos 1000 is awesome. It's quick to mount and unmount the racquet.
Keep in mind that, when you install the Wise on either the gamma and prince, you still won't get the 360 degree rotation.
 

bulldawg

Rookie
I had a Gamma 6 point floor model that I used for several years. I sold it and bought a Neos 1000 and never looked back. The Neos is a trouble-free workhorse...I actually prefer the glide bars to the swivel clamps that were on my Gamma. 2 point mounting system is more than adequate, and the Neos is easier to adjust for different head sizes (even though I rarely need to change it b/c I only string for myself.)
 

WisconsinPlayer

Professional
Hmm, personally I don't like the gamma clamps, theyre a bit fussy and I accidentally turn the gauge wheel all the time when trying to clamp and unclamp. The neos ones look simple and sturdy, do any of you know what the resale value on a 9/10 condition gamma x-6fc that I just bought about 3 months ago would be?
 
I got lucky last year and got a used Neos 1000 for $175 CDN. It's the only machine I've ever used so don't have any other point of reference. But the glide bars are worn so there's a bit of play in them (yes I've adjusted them). You have to be slow and smooth moving them otherwise they twist and bind. Watching the TW stringing video you see how easily & quickly they move the glide bars. So if you have a chance to try it out first, that would be something to check out.
 

WisconsinPlayer

Professional
I got lucky last year and got a used Neos 1000 for $175 CDN. It's the only machine I've ever used so don't have any other point of reference. But the glide bars are worn so there's a bit of play in them (yes I've adjusted them). You have to be slow and smooth moving them otherwise they twist and bind. Watching the TW stringing video you see how easily & quickly they move the glide bars. So if you have a chance to try it out first, that would be something to check out.
Yeah I watched a few different videos and they seem pretty smooth to work with, much quicker than a dropweight too!
 
Honestly, both machines are good. It's all preferences. I would just stick with your gamma and use the money to buy and install a wise 2086 head. I'm not really a fan of the glide bar because you have to adjust it when you're stringing the main and cross. I'm currently waiting for my wise to come in, so I can install on my progression II.
The one downside of glide bars is that you can't clamp a main and cross string at the same time so you may have some issues with one-piece or ATW patterns unless you have a starting clamp.
 

am1899

Legend
why would you do those patterns though?

You can save string by stringing 1 piece.

I don't think there's a consensus...but some would argue that stringing 1 piece may also help with tension maintenance

I've also had the occasional customer specifically request 2 knots.

The glide bars can make stringing ATW a little more cumbersome...but certainly not impossible. You will more than likely need a starting clamp.
 
You can save string by stringing 1 piece.

I don't think there's a consensus...but some would argue that stringing 1 piece may also help with tension maintenance

I've also had the occasional customer specifically request 2 knots.

The glide bars can make stringing ATW a little more cumbersome...but certainly not impossible. You will more than likely need a starting clamp.
Not impossible, but you will need a starting clamp AND either the short rails or a floating clamp.
 
why would you do those patterns though?
Just because I am new to stringing and want to learn. I haven't done an ATW though because my racquets can be done one-piece top down naturally. But I was thinking about doing a two-piece Lendl stringing job and mentally had figured it out. But since I don't play tennis during the winter I haven't gotten to it yet. Snow is just starting to clear from our courts so maybe time to re-visit it.
 

mmk

Hall of Fame
Neos mounting system is just as robust and fool proof as the X6FC. I am not so enamored with the glidebar clamps, but they will do the job. One issue is having to periodically check the calibration of the tensioner. Not that it would be wrong, but you do have to check periodically. Unless the force of gravity changes, you will never have to check the DW. I think you have a different rhythm when using a LO. The speed at which you crank will determine how much plastic elasticity you pull out of the string. With a DW, you just wait until it stops moving. Either machine will string frames well unless the user is a relative idiot ala Big Box Stringer. :D
Having mapped out changes in local gravity using a Lacoste & Romberg gravity meter, I can assure you that gravity does vary by location. But not enough to alter the results using a DW.:p
 

David 110

Rookie
What are the advantages of a Prince Neos 1000 over a gamma x-6fc which I already currently own? The Prince has a stand which is nice, and it is a crank vs dropweight, which has both advantages and disadvantages. Is there anything else? Considering buying a 7 year old Neos and reselling my Gamma x-6fc which I bought a few months ago. In the future I will be buying a wise for whichever machine I keep/buy
A swivel clamp upgrade is available for the NEOS 1000
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Hay @mmk The gravitational constant is the same if you stay in the same spot of the planet. That spot is where you do your stringing. If you move to different gravitational anomalies, then yes, the tension could change, but probably by less than 1%, which would be within the specs of the DW. Let's see, 1% of 50 lb is 0.5 lb.
 

mmk

Hall of Fame
Hay @mmk The gravitational constant is the same if you stay in the same spot of the planet. That spot is where you do your stringing. If you move to different gravitational anomalies, then yes, the tension could change, but probably by less than 1%, which would be within the specs of the DW. Let's see, 1% of 50 lb is 0.5 lb.
I have a degree in geophysics, so yes, I know. From highest to lowest gravity on the earth's surface, there is only about 0.7% difference.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Off topic, but you could lose a few # in fluid just from playing a match in hot weather. Of course a lot of that could be in your clothes as sweat.:)
 
I know this might be a little off topic, but is it weird that I am able to have 360 degree with my Gamma 602 FC?

1054i15.jpg
 

GlennK

Rookie
I put the wise on my Gamma X-ST last year and have 360. You have the option of installing it with or without the gamma adapter. If you put it on, it raises the wise and you lose 360. if you leave it off, you are fine as long as you use the diablo on the wise.
 
I put the wise on my Gamma X-ST last year and have 360. You have the option of installing it with or without the gamma adapter. If you put it on, it raises the wise and you lose 360. if you leave it off, you are fine as long as you use the diablo on the wise.

Much appreciated.
 

Wes

Hall of Fame
What are the advantages of a Prince Neos 1000 over a gamma x-6fc which I already currently own? The Prince has a stand which is nice, and it is a crank vs dropweight, which has both advantages and disadvantages. Is there anything else? Considering buying a 7 year old Neos and reselling my Gamma x-6fc which I bought a few months ago. In the future I will be buying a wise for whichever machine I keep/buy

The following isn't particularly intended to sway you one way, or the other. It's intended more to be an objective/unbiased comparison between the 2 set-ups you've proposed.
Primarily, I'm trying to address the "Is there anything else?" portion of your post.

First, you're ultimately going to add a Wise to either machine. So, I'm going to jump past the drop-weight/crank aspect, since it isn't overly relevant in this instance.

Second, if you stick with your X-6FC, you're going to add a stand to it. Ultimately, you're going to have a stand with either machine. Another aspect to skip over.

Third, the Neos 1000 (with it's glide bar clamps) will be more of an issue if you plan on stringing tennis racquets with fan-shaped mains (so, this would also include the vast majority of racquetball and squash frames too).
The X-6FC (with it's swivel clamps) will be much more pleasurable to use when working with strings that don't run parallel to each other (aforementioned fan-shapes... or, God forbid, a PowerAngle racquet). After all... swivel clamps are, universally, the more versatile breed.

The swivel clamps will also be a little less fumbly if/when you use patterns that alternate clamping mains/crosses (i.e. Around The World patterns or Box patterns).
With the glide bar clamps on the Neos, yes... you would need to manual switch the orientation of one clamp/glidebar. This is not a big deal (and frankly, is made to sound, by many people, like some arduous task :rolleyes:). It's not. It only takes about 6 seconds to make the transition. I never understand why many folks make this sound like a big imposition.

Keep this in mind... the normal scenario, with glide bar clamps, is that all racquets will have you transitioning from mains to crosses... but only once (so you move 1 clamp/bar only 1 time).
Even if you choose to use an ATW pattern, you would only have to make this transition 2 additional times (you move 1 clamp/bar a total of only 3 times)!
Hardly the headache that is often made of this simple maneuver.
I've even done Box patterns (switching from mains to crosses 12 times) with a glide bar machine and it still isn't any kind of ordeal.

Sure... the swivel clamps make these (mains/crosses) transitions a little quicker.
However... in my opinion, the differences between glide bars vs. swivel clamps, regarding how you'll cope with fan-shaped/non-parallel strings, is a much bigger issue to contend with than any ATW/Box patterns are.

In other words, what I'm saying is... if you do decide to go the Neos route - don't even take into consideration the so-called ATW/Box patterns "issue" (it's not an issue), but do take into consideration whether or not you see yourself stringing racquetball racquets, squash racquets, or snowshoe/granny tennis racquets (fan pattern mains). This is where you will have a much more noticeable appreciation having swivel clamps.

Fourth, if you get a Neos, you would gain 2 things that you won't have with an X-6FC on a stand.
  1. Much more tool tray space.
  2. A brake to lock the turntable in place.
Only you know if you'd find the turntable brake useful or not. Some do, some don't. Many people have a brake on their machine, but don't use it.
On one of my machines (happens to have glide bars), I have a brake, but never use it.
On another machine (happens to have swivel clamps), I use the brake for all sorts of things (mounting/unmounting, tightening knots, final straightening of strings, and when using a calibrator). However, I never use the brake (on any machine) for stringing O-port/EXO3 type frames. Why? That's another conversation, for another time.


As @loosegroove pointed out in post #6, with it's 2pt. mounting (and therefore, no side/shoulder supports) the Neos 1000 has less metal directly in your way (for you to work around... or catch string on) or side grommet holes being partially covered.

In addition to the already "uncluttered" working area described above, another point that hasn't directly been mentioned, is also how unfettered things are while stringing the crosses on a Neos 1000. By that point in the process, you only have one glide bar in play, one string clamp in play, AND no side/shoulder supports in the way.

Any 6pt. machine with swivel clamps has a touch more "crowded" feel (the smaller the racquet head, the more this is noticed). Both swivel clamps are still present/needed for installing the crosses AND you have the shoulder supports there too.
Not the end of the world... by any stretch - just has an overall less "roomy" feel when you're on the crosses.
Not a "deal breaker"... just pointing out subtle differences, for the sake of completeness, that could be easy to overlook until one has used various types of machines.

One last thing to bring up (that hasn't been mentioned yet) is being able to center the racquet's hoop (in relation to the center of the turntable).
Some folks feel this is important, some don't. Maybe you care... maybe you don't... maybe you've never really given it any thought.
Personally, I like being able to center the hoop on my machines.
  1. Like your X-6FC, most machines (but not all) allow both mounting towers (head & throat) to be individually adjusted (towards or away from the center of the turntable). Therefore, you can always center the hoop (provided you adjust each side evenly).
  2. Some machines (like the Gamma 5003, 6004 and 8800) even have a self-centering feature (designated as "SC") which always and automatically centers every racquet's hoop with the dead center of the turntable - by merely turning a single knob (located at either end of the turntable).
  3. Lastly, some machines (like the Neos 1000, older Gamma 4000 & older Ektelon machines) have 1 of the tower mounts in a fixed position (typically the 1 for the head of the racquet). You can only move 1 tower (typically for the throat) towards, or away from, the center pivot point of the turntable. Yes, that's one less adjustment to have to fool around with when mounting each frame... but, at the expense of not having your hoop centered (unless you're lucky enough to happen to have JUST the right size hoop mounted).

As you've quickly figured out, all machines have pros & cons.
And, as @mischiefalex eluded to, it boils down to personal preferences and which features/aspects YOU consider important. ;)

Cheers.
 
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WisconsinPlayer

Professional
The following isn't particularly intended to sway you one way, or the other. It's intended more to be an objective/unbiased comparison between the 2 set-ups you've proposed.
Primarily, I'm trying to address the "Is there anything else?" portion of your post.

First, you're ultimately going to add a Wise to either machine. So, I'm going to jump past the drop-weight/crank aspect, since it isn't overly relevant in this instance.

Second, if you stick with your X-6FC, you're going to add a stand to it. Ultimately, you're going to have a stand with either machine. Another aspect to skip over.

Third, the Neos 1000 (with it's glide bar clamps) will be more of an issue if you plan on stringing tennis racquets with fan-shaped mains (so, this would also include the vast majority of racquetball and squash frames too).
The X-6FC (with it's swivel clamps) will be much more pleasurable to use when working with strings that don't run parallel to each other (aforementioned fan-shapes... or, God forbid, a PowerAngle racquet). After all... swivel clamps are, universally, the more versatile breed.

The swivel clamps will also be a little less fumbly if/when you use patterns that alternate clamping mains/crosses (i.e. Around The World patterns or Box patterns).
With the glide bar clamps on the Neos, yes... you would need to manual switch the orientation of one clamp/glidebar. This is not a big deal (and frankly, is made to sound, by many people, like some arduous task :rolleyes:). It's not. It only takes about 6 seconds to make the transition. I never understand why many folks make this sound like a big imposition.

Keep this in mind... the normal scenario, with glide bar clamps, is that all racquets will have you transitioning from mains to crosses... but only once (so you move 1 clamp/bar only 1 time).
Even if you choose to use an ATW pattern, you would only have to make this transition 2 additional times (you move 1 clamp/bar a total of only 3 times)!
Hardly the headache that is often made of this simple maneuver.
I've even done Box patterns (switching from mains to crosses 12 times) with a glide bar machine and it still isn't any kind of ordeal.

Sure... the swivel clamps make these (mains/crosses) transitions a little quicker.
However... in my opinion, the differences between glide bars vs. swivel clamps, regarding how you'll cope with fan-shaped/non-parallel strings, is a much bigger issue to contend with than any ATW/Box patterns are.

In other words, what I'm saying is... if you do decide to go the Neos route - don't even take into consideration the so-called ATW/Box patterns "issue" (it's not an issue), but do take into consideration whether or not you see yourself stringing racquetball racquets, squash racquets, or snowshoe/granny tennis racquets (fan pattern mains). This is where you will have a much more noticeable appreciation having swivel clamps.

Fourth, if you get a Neos, you would gain 2 things that you won't have with an X-6FC on a stand.
  1. Much more tool tray space.
  2. A brake to lock the turntable in place.
Only you know if you'd find the turntable brake useful or not. Some do, some don't. Many people have a brake on their machine, but don't use it.
On one of my machines (happens to have glide bars), I have a brake, but never use it.
On another machine (happens to have swivel clamps), I use the brake for all sorts of things (mounting/unmounting, tightening knots, final straightening of strings, and when using a calibrator). However, I never use the brake (on any machine) for stringing O-port/EXO3 type frames. Why? That's another conversation, for another time.


As @loosegroove pointed out in post #6, with it's 2pt. mounting (and therefore, no side/shoulder supports) the Neos 1000 has less metal directly in your way (for you to work around... or catch string on) or side grommet holes being partially covered.

In addition to the already "uncluttered" working area described above, another point that hasn't directly been mentioned, is also how unfettered things are while stringing the crosses on a Neos 1000. By that point in the process, you only have one glide bar in play, one string clamp in play, AND no side/shoulder supports in the way.

Any 6pt. machine with swivel clamps has a touch more "crowded" feel (the smaller the racquet head, the more this is noticed). Both swivel clamps are still present/needed for installing the crosses AND you have the shoulder supports there too.
Not the end of the world... by any stretch - just has an overall less "roomy" feel when you're on the crosses.
Not a "deal breaker"... just pointing out subtle differences, for the sake of completeness, that could be easy to overlook until one has used various types of machines.

One last thing to bring up (that hasn't been mentioned yet) is being able to center the racquet's hoop (in relation to the center of the turntable).
Some folks feel this is important, some don't. Maybe you care... maybe you don't... maybe you've never really given it any thought.
Personally, I like being able to center the hoop on my machines.
  1. Like your X-6FC, most machines (but not all) allow both mounting towers (head & throat) to be individually adjusted (towards or away from the center of the turntable). Therefore, you can always center the hoop (provided you adjust each side evenly).
  2. Some machines (like the Gamma 5003, 6004 and 8800) even have a self-centering feature (designated as "SC") which always and automatically centers every racquet's hoop with the dead center of the turntable - by merely turning a single knob (located at either end of the turntable).
  3. Lastly, some machines (like the Neos 1000, older Gamma 4000 & older Ektelon machines) have 1 of the tower mounts in a fixed position (typically the 1 for the head of the racquet). You can only move 1 tower (typically for the throat) towards, or away from, the center pivot point of the turntable. Yes, that's one less adjustment to have to fool around with when mounting each frame... but, at the expense of not having your hoop centered (unless you're lucky enough to happen to have JUST the right size hoop mounted).

As you've quickly figured out, all machines have pros & cons.
And, as @mischiefalex eluded to, it boils down to personal preferences and which features/aspects YOU consider important. ;)

Cheers.
Thanks for the detailed response! I'm more interested in the Prince neos 1500 now over the 1000, because the 1500 seems more versatile and modern. Just waiting to find a good price on a used one
 

loosegroove

Hall of Fame
Thanks for the detailed response! I'm more interested in the Prince neos 1500 now over the 1000, because the 1500 seems more versatile and modern. Just waiting to find a good price on a used one

That's going to be a tougher find. The Neos 1000 has been out for so long and is so popular, that they're frequently found used. It's much more difficult to find a 1500, particularly at a steal of a price. I saw one on Craigslist for $600 2 years back. It was like 100 miles away from me and we didn't really have room for it in our house...wish I bought it. With that said, don't pass up a perfectly good date because your waiting for the captain of the football team to ask you to the dance.
 
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irdave

New User
I got lucky last year and got a used Neos 1000 for $175 CDN. It's the only machine I've ever used so don't have any other point of reference. But the glide bars are worn so there's a bit of play in them (yes I've adjusted them). You have to be slow and smooth moving them otherwise they twist and bind. Watching the TW stringing video you see how easily & quickly they move the glide bars. So if you have a chance to try it out first, that would be something to check out.

Mine were a bit worn as well, but I adjusted them, used a feeler gauge to really get them really close, then I GREASED THE RUNNERS AND THE PATHS. Made all the difference in the world.

I really did work hard to get them properly adjusted- and they still bound up. So I stopped doing what the book said and just sorted it out for myself. Grease.

Sooo much nicer.
 
Mine were a bit worn as well, but I adjusted them, used a feeler gauge to really get them really close, then I GREASED THE RUNNERS AND THE PATHS. Made all the difference in the world.

I really did work hard to get them properly adjusted- and they still bound up. So I stopped doing what the book said and just sorted it out for myself. Grease.

Sooo much nicer.
Were your glide bars binding because they were too tight? I could see that greasing them would help, but mine have too much play so it twists. Still, I'll give it a try.
 

irdave

New User
Too tight, too loose, twisted- like I said, I worked on it for a while- to the point I was just going to buy a Babolat machine with the fancy clamps.

But then I saw that video of them racing on the Neos 1000... And took matters into my own hands.

Your machine would have to be pretty smoked to not be able to adjust it to where it's supposed to be. You have the manual, yes?
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
I have never used your Gamma OP so I can't directly compare it, but I went from using a Klippermate to a Neos 1000 and it was like trading up from a Saturn to a Ferrari. I am a once a month or so stringer and I just passed my 100th Neos string job (bought it used in 2009). It is rock solid and every single time I've calibrated the tension it has been spot on. I do always set the tension back to zero between string jobs.
 

graycrait

Legend
Ref. adjusting the glide bars. I have never seen a technical instruction for this but it would seem to me a feeler gauge could be useful. I adjusted mine for the first time in 3 yrs and thought, "A feeler gauge would make this faster and more efficient." Instead, I did it using the trial and error method. Also, seeing as the grooves are not steel it would seem that this would be the critical wear point and could reach a point where adjustment might not be effective. I've tried all sorts of lube on the bars, some more effective than others, but am now trying this: DuPont Teflon Silicone Lubricant. Trying it on a couple of stringbeds too:)
 

tennytive

Hall of Fame
By coincidence an old Neos is listed on Chicago CL for $700. Looks to be in very good shape, but I don't know much about them. If you search CL under tennis racquets it will pop up.
 
Too tight, too loose, twisted- like I said, I worked on it for a while- to the point I was just going to buy a Babolat machine with the fancy clamps.

But then I saw that video of them racing on the Neos 1000... And took matters into my own hands.

Your machine would have to be pretty smoked to not be able to adjust it to where it's supposed to be. You have the manual, yes?
How/what did you adjust for a glide bar that is too loose? I've adjusted them to be as tight as can be. Can't see what else to do with them. And yes I have the manual.
 

irdave

New User
Mine wasn't so used up that I couldn't adjust it so that it had the suggested clearance, 0.010" or whatever it is. Is it not possible to order the feet for the glide bar? Mine had "chew" marks from someone over-tightening the allen screws, so I flipped them over to have a clean surface to work with. Then I pushed down on the glide bar when doing the final snugging up to try and make it flat, then I greased the tracks and the feet, and that was the ticket. I think most any grease would work- white lithium, chassis grease, bearing grease- anything...

You don't happen to be in northern Colorado, do you?
 

irdave

New User
You know, they're just little pieces of steel. If you can't just buy some, I bet you could make some.

Oooo. Get them DLC'd instead of painted or powder coated or whatever they are now. They'd slide nice...

Hmmmm...
 
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