Advantages of Volleyball shorts

I am going to educate some posters now. My girl wears these shorts and for good reason. They may improve FUNCTION. Please scroll down this link and read all the advantages of volleyball shorts.

http://www.best-volleyball-equipment.com/volleyball-shorts.html

The girls at IMG believe and it is spreading out to the tennis girl masses, that they help. Maybe, maybe not. And wearing a skort if not required diminishes the function....JUST like it would for volleyball players.

Just like swimmers try different suits all the time, basketball players experiment with all kinds of elastic on arms, legs....these girls are experimenting to improve performance in a sport.

It has NOTHING to do with how girls dress inappropriately in other areas of society. I AGREE that they do.

These girls want any edge, that difference that maybe could land a scholarship or results that warrant sponsorship. And yes, when older they will have to wear skorts if the tournament requires. But until then, they think they get an advantage.

This is why it is DEAD WRONG to equate this with girls dressing too sexy for their age in a mall. This is hard working girls trying to find the edge. Dedicated kids. They should be encouraged that their bodies are athletic and wonderful.

If they are going for function that it is no more wrong than volleyball girls. yeah....weirdos go to volleyball matches and gym meets to get their strange thrill.....we need to protect our girls from those guys if they go too far....not accuse our daughters of dressing wrong in an athletic pursuit.
 
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Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
I am going to educate some posters now. My girl wears these shorts and for good reason. They may improve FUNCTION. Please scroll down this link and read all the advantages of volleyball shorts.

http://www.best-volleyball-equipment.com/volleyball-shorts.html

The girls at IMG believe and it is spreading out to the tennis girl masses, that they help. Maybe, maybe not. And wearing a skort if not required diminishes the function.

Just like swimmer try different things all the time, basketball players experiment with all kinds of elastic on arms, legs....these girls are experimenting.

It has NOTHING to do with how girls dress inappropriately in other areas of society. I AGREE that they do.

These girls want any edge, that difference that maybe could land a scholarship or results that warrant sponsorship. And yes, when older they will have to wear skorts if the tournament requires. But until then, they think they get an advantage.

This is why it is DEAD WRONG to equate this with girls dressing too sexy for their age in a mall. This is hard working girls trying to find the edge. Dedicated kids. They should be encouraged that their bodies are athletic and wonderful.

If they are going for function that it is no more wrong than volleyball girls. yeah....weirdos go to volleyball matches and gym meets to get their strange thrill.....we need to protect our girls from those guys if they go too far....not accuse our daughters of dressing wrong in an athletic pursuit.

The Williams sisters and countless others practice in these shorts. Just do it
 

NewGuy

Rookie
I don't know. . .. Seems like most of the listed "advantages" don't apply to tennis -- sliding on floor, not touching the net, etc. There may be some comfort advantages, but there are also the low waist for athletic body descriptions, too. I sincerely doubt that these shorts give any competitive advantage in a tennis match (unlike the high tech swimsuits or running wear).

Parents are probably best positioned to determine if these shorts, worn solo, are appropriate for their child -- but my bet is some tournaments would say no.
 
I don't know. . .. Seems like most of the listed "advantages" don't apply to tennis -- sliding on floor, not touching the net, etc. There may be some comfort advantages, but there are also the low waist for athletic body descriptions, too. I sincerely doubt that these shorts give any competitive advantage in a tennis match (unlike the high tech swimsuits or running wear).

Parents are probably best positioned to determine if these shorts, worn solo, are appropriate for their child -- but my bet is some tournaments would say no.

Not the point at all. The point is that this is purely a performance enhancing effort, just like swimmers changing suits. The girls think they work.....mental is part of the game.

You missed my point....it has nothing to do with whether they work, are a placebo, or somewhere in between. Its that girls already have huge body image problems and our society already has major issues.

When a young girl dresses wrong for her age to attract sexual attention that is dead wrong. When she tries volleyball shorts to see if they enhance her tennis that is 100% awesome.

And folks that can not see that truly need to seek some help. The only reason a parent would say no is that they are confusing they way their daughter dresses for the mall to attract older boys with how she is trying to enhance performance.

Parents certainly have the right to tell her not to wear them....but that does not mean their reasons for doing that are correct.
 
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Tennishacker

Professional
This is such a strange thread.

IMO, maybe the shorts will help or not, but it would be better to work on many other things, (strokes, conditioning, etc.) than to worry about clothing.
 

chalkflewup

Hall of Fame
I foresee a strictly enforced dress code in the near future. Bethany Mattek-Sands could be the poster child for the new standard.
 

xdani26

New User
This thread is pretty random... but being a teenage girl, I usually wear those shorts underneath my regular shorts since most of my shorts don't have pockets so I use them to hold tennis balls. I do see many girls around my age wearing just those though, and I don't really think it matters. It shouldn't be affecting your game much, but I'm sure some people might find them more comfortable or something.
 

Fuji

Legend
Alright. Next time I play mixed doubles, I'll roll out in these shorts and see if they enhance my performance at all! ;)

-Fuji
 

Fuji

Legend
LOL! She actually does underneath shorts. She played volleyball for 5 years I believe. Even then, she wore them under running shorts. :p

-Fuji
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Seriously, wearing baggy shorts that won't stretch really makes it tough to bend your knees. Prefer short shorts
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv9Tyqy33Pw&feature=player_embedded

That is Maria last week winning yet another major junior tournament. She has a very conservative long shirt, no obnoxious jewelry. She looks like an athlete dressed for athletics.

She wears assorted equipment that she feels gives her an edge....knee straps, wrist bands, visor, and volleyball shorts. She wears assorted equipment just like any basketball player or any athlete. Wearing shorts or a skirt over them serves zero practical purpose and should not even be an issue any more than it would be saying all volleyball players must wear skirts. Makes no sense.

There is absolutely nothing non athletic about her appearance in the least. It is so far from a girl dressed too sexy at the mall or in society it is not even funny.

The poster who started all this should have simply apologized. Her mother is not dressing her for any reason other than athletic performance. And her results are flat out amazing. She is a hard working athlete, dedicated to her hard work.

IMG supports her because she works hard and wins. Just like they would support Brooke Austin if she accepted their offer. Just like they support a plain looking girl from Alaska if she was an amazing player. No one gave Maria a thing she didn't earn. If she gained 30 lbs. and got pimples, IMG would still support her...because she is a contender.

And anyone that even tries to see something wrong with the way she is dressed or imply she only gets supports because her mom dresses her for agents, is seriously damaged.
 
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Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv9Tyqy33Pw&feature=player_embedded

That is Maria last week winning yet another major junior tournament. She has a very conservative long shirt, no obnoxious jewelry. She looks like an athlete dressed for athletics.

She wears assorted equipment that she feels gives her an edge....knee straps, wrist bands, visor, and volleyball shorts. She wears assorted equipment just like any basketball player or any athlete. Wearing shorts or a skirt over them serves zero practical purpose and should not even be an issue any more than it would be saying all volleyball players must wear skirts. Makes no sense.

There is absolutely nothing non athletic about her appearance in the least. It is so far from a girl dressed too sexy at the mall or in society it is not even funny.

The poster who started all this should have simply apologized. Her mother is not dressing her for any reason other than athletic performance. And her results are flat out amazing. She is a hard working athlete, dedicated to her hard work.

IMG supports her because she works hard and wins. Just like they would support Brooke Austin if she accepted their offer. Just like they support a plain looking girl from Alaska if she was an amazing player. No one gave Maria a thing she didn't earn. If she gained 30 lbs. and got pimples, IMG would still support her...because she is a contender.

And anyone that even tries to see something wrong with the way she is dressed or imply she only gets supports because her mom dresses her for agents, is seriously damaged.

nice game, and I guess that looks fine, but there will always be parents or directors that my have a problem with the outfit. Around here some tournaments won't let you go sleeveless. Her opponents outfit(link) is not much different just a small skirt added, think that still will appease parents more. Also, doesn't Adidas make some type of training short with pocket that Anna and Maria K wear all the time wouldn't those work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x63GiblM1w&NR=1
 

Ash_Smith

Legend
I honestly don't give a flying **** what kids wear on court, as long as they're on court playing tennis (rather than than running around getting up to mischief!).

As for Maria, the thing that strikes me most is her control of her spine angle. Her core stability and therefore control of her hips must be excellent as she never seems to lose her spine angle, even when really pushed on a wide ball. The other thing that strikes me is that her quads are bigger than mine!

Cheers
 

Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
Seriously, wearing baggy shorts that won't stretch really makes it tough to bend your knees. Prefer short shorts

Baggy shorts don't seem to hurt any of the top male pros or juniors, most wear shorts down to the knees. For me my age keeps me from getting down low more than my shorts.
 

tennisdad65

Hall of Fame
I'd be even more impressed with that young girl if she can win the nationals dressed like Suzanne Lenglen and other ladies of the ~1920s :)
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
This is why it is DEAD WRONG to equate this with girls dressing too sexy for their age in a mall. This is hard working girls trying to find the edge. Dedicated kids. They should be encouraged that their bodies are athletic and wonderful.

So you are saying that if the same shorts were worn by someone in the mall, it is inappropriate? But it is OK in a tennis tournament, even though more people may be staring at the person than at the mall? Moreover, if it so comfortable, why pass judgement on someone wearing it in the mall? I wear my old tennis shoes to work because I find them far better for the feet than work shoes. So I am wearing the same thing in two different situations because it feels good. And what is to say someone at the mall is not really an A student or a super swimmer who just happens to be at the mall? Why does it matter at all?
 

willshot

Semi-Pro
So you are saying that if the same shorts were worn by someone in the mall, it is inappropriate? But it is OK in a tennis tournament, even though more people may be staring at the person than at the mall? Moreover, if it so comfortable, why pass judgement on someone wearing it in the mall? I wear my old tennis shoes to work because I find them far better for the feet than work shoes. So I am wearing the same thing in two different situations because it feels good. And what is to say someone at the mall is not really an A student or a super swimmer who just happens to be at the mall? Why does it matter at all?

Theres a difference. Theres a time and place for everything. You don't see girls where bikinis at the mall. However its normal for the beach and pool. Just as its ok to wear mini volleyball shorts to play tennis.
 

ofcr17601

New User
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv9Tyqy33Pw&feature=player_embedded

That is Maria last week winning yet another major junior tournament. She has a very conservative long shirt, no obnoxious jewelry. She looks like an athlete dressed for athletics.

She wears assorted equipment that she feels gives her an edge....knee straps, wrist bands, visor, and volleyball shorts. She wears assorted equipment just like any basketball player or any athlete. Wearing shorts or a skirt over them serves zero practical purpose and should not even be an issue any more than it would be saying all volleyball players must wear skirts. Makes no sense.

There is absolutely nothing non athletic about her appearance in the least. It is so far from a girl dressed too sexy at the mall or in society it is not even funny.

The poster who started all this should have simply apologized. Her mother is not dressing her for any reason other than athletic performance. And her results are flat out amazing. She is a hard working athlete, dedicated to her hard work.

IMG supports her because she works hard and wins. Just like they would support Brooke Austin if she accepted their offer. Just like they support a plain looking girl from Alaska if she was an amazing player. No one gave Maria a thing she didn't earn. If she gained 30 lbs. and got pimples, IMG would still support her...because she is a contender.

And anyone that even tries to see something wrong with the way she is dressed or imply she only gets supports because her mom dresses her for agents, is seriously damaged.

I believe the creators of open forums such as this, were to allow people to to have discussions and share opinions. Depending on your culture background or beliefs, you most certainly will not agree with everyone on the forum.

With that being said, I just happen not to agree with the attire that she plays in. Does that make me a bad person, way out of line, well apparently so to some. Although I don't agree with it, I do respect the decision her supporters have made for her image and function on the court. I wasn't trying to judge Moms parenting skills, who has the right to judge?

Let me assure you not jealous of Maria, Mike Schere (Octagon Agent) and I watched Maria during the Easter Bowl and we both agreed, she is very talented, from what I saw, stepping in to the forehand right on top of the baseline and serve appeared to be 20 mph faster (with placement) than last year.

I can relate to the animosity and jealousy people have with junior tennis stars because, I guess it would be safe to say my Daughter's one. Same people who stated she would be a star when she was 7 have nothing to say to us today and make insults behind our backs and in post, even after she beat some of the top juniors in the world in the Orange Bowl and in this years Easter bowl. So I get that. For the past year or so, my Daughter been discussed with positive comments and negative, you yourself referred to her (positively) in a recent post. My wife warned me not to respond, and I have revealed too much information about me, my family and most important, my Daughter. However I think it was necessary with a thread of privacy, (without telling you exactly who I am) to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

I would not allow my Daughter to wear compression shorts and she may be a couple of years older than Shishkina. My Daughter stated she would not feel comfortable playing in compression shorts only. She did it last year in the U.S Open for Junior Doubles, to match up with her partner, and stated she felt so self conscious about it, she couldn't play her best.

Now is it wrong for my Daughter to feel this way, should I be criticized on a open forum that I'm sick or disturbed that my Daughter felt that it was inappropriate for her. When my Daughter reached the age of 12 and started wearing the compression shorts more frequently, I questioned it, but quickly realized they are a necessary for function and other feminine issues.

Yes I have experienced other cultures, my entire family, including immediate, is made up of a myriad of cultures. So I get it what may be considered normal in Europe, may be considered taboo elsewhere. The tone of my statement was not sensitive to the European culture, it was simply based on my belief as a parent of a teenage girl, I wasn't thinking about what is normal around the world.

Once again I respect your opinion about the attire, but I just don't happen to agree with it. Now you certainly don't have to, but I'm asking you to respect mine. And I don't think anybody sharing a belief or opinion shouldn't be intimidated, or bullied or berated on a open forum for having a difference of opinion.

I will not apologize for my belief and opinion. I see that you are passionate about this issue indirectly, so am I because it literally is my job (Juvenile Div L.A.P.D). I believe we will have the opportunity to meet in person, and I will be happy to discuss this issue and others in person if you like.

I will take the high road on this issue and will not revert to name calling or insults because for the most part. I'm sure you would agree, we are civil rational people, we don't need to sit behind a computer and massage juvenile egos via the internet.
 
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I believe the creators of open forums such as this, were to allow people to to have discussions and share opinions. Depending on your culture background or beliefs, you most certainly will not agree with everyone on the forum.

With that being said, I just happen not to agree with the attire that she plays in. Does that make me a bad person, way out of line, well apparently so to some. Although I don't agree with it, I do respect the decision her supporters have made for her image and function on the court. I wasn't trying to judge Moms parenting skills, who has the right to judge?

Let me assure you not jealous of Maria, Mike Schere (Octagon Agent) and I watched Maria during the Easter Bowl and we both agreed, she is very talented, from what I saw, stepping in to the forehand right on top of the baseline and serve appeared to be 20 mph faster (with placement) than last year.

I can relate to the animosity and jealousy people have with junior tennis stars because, I guess it would be safe to say my Daughter's one. Same people who stated she would be a star when she was 7 have nothing to say to us today and make insults behind our backs and in post, even after she beat some of the top juniors in the world, including in this years Easter bowl. So I get that. For the past year or so, my Daughter been discussed with positive comments and negative, you yourself referred to her (positively) in a recent post. My wife warned me not to respond, and I have revealed too much information about me, my family and most important, my Daughter. However I think it was necessary with a thread of unanimity, (without telling you exactly who I am) to give you an idea of where I'm coming from.

I would not allow my Daughter to wear compression shorts and she may be a couple of years older than Shishkina. My Daughter stated she would not feel comfortable playing in compression shorts only. She did it last year in the U.S Open for Junior Doubles, to match up with her partner, and stated she felt so self conscious about it, she couldn't play her best.

Now is it wrong for my Daughter to feel this way, should I be criticized on a open forum that I'm sick or disturbed that my Daughter felt that it was inappropriate for her. When my Daughter reached the age of 12 and started wearing the compression shorts more frequently, I questioned it, but quickly realized they are a necessary for function and other feminine issues.

Yes I have experienced other cultures, my entire family, including immediate, is made up of a myriad of cultures. So I get it what may be considered normal in Europe, may be considered taboo elsewhere. The tone of my statement was not sensitive to the European culture, it was simply based on my belief as a parent of a teenage girl, I wasn't thinking about what is normal around the world.

Once again I respect your opinion about the attire, but I just don't happen to agree with it. Now you certainly don't have to, but I'm asking you to respect mine. And I don't think anybody sharing a belief or opinion should be intimidated, or bullied or berated on a open forum for having a difference of opinion.

I will not apologize for my belief and opinion. I see that you are passionate about this issue indirectly, so am I because it literally is my job (Juvenile Div L.A.P.D). I believe we will have the opportunity to meet in person, and I will be happy to discuss this issue and others in person if you like.

I will take the high road on this issue and will not revert to name calling or insults because for the most part. I'm sure you would agree, we are civil rational people, we don't need to sit behind a computer and massage juvenile egos via the internet.


Bravo. Not stating an opinion on the subject - just liking the well put, mature way of handling the response. And thanks for your service.
 

klu375

Semi-Pro
And anyone that even tries to see something wrong with the way she is dressed ... is seriously damaged.[/quote]

People are entitled to different opinions regarding what is appropriate to wear for a 12yo. Why is it so difficult to understand?

Regarding your general desire to "educate" us - some of us are parents of teenage girls who played tennis tornaments for many years. Our kids actually played against these "big names" mentioned around here, we may know their parents and all kind of inside information. We also saw our daughters progress from kindergarden to high-school age with all the issues associated with this growth. Doesn't it look funny when a father of a 6yo who never played a single tournament decides to educate us? And if we do not agree with your "education" then we are all seriously damaged.
 

spacediver

Hall of Fame
TennisCoachFLA, would you recommend that guys also wear these shorts (tight fitting spandex)? Not disagreeing with anything you're saying, just inquiring whether you think guys could also benefit from these advantages.
 

willshot

Semi-Pro
TennisCoachFLA, would you recommend that guys also wear these shorts (tight fitting spandex)? Not disagreeing with anything you're saying, just inquiring whether you think guys could also benefit from these advantages.

Guys have something special they need to hide. Unless your gay! No one wants to see sweaty balls dancing around. I think the ref would jump the guy and issue DQ if it really happened.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
Theres a difference. Theres a time and place for everything. You don't see girls where bikinis at the mall. However its normal for the beach and pool. Just as its ok to wear mini volleyball shorts to play tennis.

Except for swimming, which other sports attire is not acceptable at the mall?

Bikini is a "little" (pun intended) bit of an extreme example.
 

maggmaster

Hall of Fame
I don't particularly care either way, but don't you retain most of the benefits if you wear a pair of shorts over the compression shorts? I have worn them before for soccer and we always wore them under the uniform.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I would not allow my Daughter to wear compression shorts

.....

When my Daughter reached the age of 12 and started wearing the compression shorts more frequently, I questioned it, but quickly realized they are a necessary for function and other feminine issues.

I am sorry if I can't understand - are you for or against it? Apparently, you did allow your daughter to wear them, after questioning it, and even understood why. Then you say you would not.

So you changed your mind twice?
 

willshot

Semi-Pro
Except for swimming, which other sports attire is not acceptable at the mall?

Bikini is a "little" (pun intended) bit of an extreme example.


How about wrestling? In a gym, its fits the context. In a mall, it becomes major "NUTT HUGGERS".

MVP_display_image.jpg
 

ofcr17601

New User
I am sorry if I can't understand - are you for or against it? Apparently, you did allow your daughter to wear them, after questioning it, and even understood why. Then you say you would not.

So you changed your mind twice?

My Daughter utilizes the shorts for an under garment, for function and other feminine issues (without going into detail). Several female tennis players wear the compression shorts as a "UNDER" garment as well with regular shorts or skorts worn over them. I don't know if your a casual fan or someone who follows the sport, but surely you have seen tennis outfits designed with compression shorts under the outfit with a skirt, skort, or short on over them.

My Daughter does not feel comfortable wearing just the compression short while playing tennis.
I hope this clears it up for you.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
My Daughter utilizes the shorts for an under garment, for function and other feminine issues (without going into detail). Several female tennis players wear the compression shorts as a "UNDER" garment as well with regular shorts or skorts worn over them. I don't know if your a casual fan or someone who follows the sport, but surely you have seen tennis outfits designed with compression shorts under the outfit with a skirt, skort, or short on over them.

My Daughter does not feel comfortable wearing just the compression short while playing tennis.
I hope this clears it up for you.

Yes now it is clear. I have been educated about compression shorts before by the pretty women on this forum when I was curious about where the extra ball disappears.
 

Angle Queen

Professional
Sorry, TennisCoach. I'm not with you on this one. I saw the discussion initially unfold on it in another admittedly unrelated thread.

But the link you reference, for the UnderArmour shorts doesn't do anything to sway my mind. If anything, it points in the opposite direction. That picture of a tween/teen or some other very young girl sporting the skimpy shorts doesn't shout "Top Notch Athlete" to me. It shouts something else entirely.

And the reasons just don't add up. Let's take a few of them:

# Shorts that slide easily on the ground that allow you to make plays more effectively


# Shorts that work well to regulate your body temperature and enhance your volleyball playing performance


# Shorts that help prevent floor burn when diving to the ground.


# Shorts that provide better movement sliding on the floor, giving you ability to quickly get up off the ground to continue playing


# Moisture Management technology for rapid evaporation & comfort

When was the last time you saw a tennis player (Boris Becker or Taylor Dent excepted) on a full-out stretch...to land sliding on a tennis court and having to get up from it to make another shot? Now for the clay court folks and their shoes, sliding is another story. "Floor Burn" is not a major consideration for tennis players.

And besides, there's not much material at all to the referenced shorts. If you truly want to enhance "sliding" and prevent floor burn, wouldn't you want more material...not less? Human skin is an organ; a living, breathing part of the body whose surface inherently changes given both internal and external temperatures. Isn't this reason part of why the top-notch swimmers wear full-body high-tech suits? The days of mini-speedos are gone. And baseball players, known "sliders," wear full-length pants to minimize strawberries and bruising. The Chi-Sox tried them back in the mid-70s if I recall...and it was a total disaster.

About the "Moisture Management," that's a good point...but one, again, that points to more fabric, not less. The high-tech fabrics today are great! Better even, gasp, than The Creator's (skin). I've actually found myself less "wet" with longer sleeves and pants legs in the play-dri stuff...than to go "skins." I've even been known to go Commando in skorts...because the stuff is so good in that regard.

And let's add the AMA admonishments about The Sun. Again, some of these newer fabrics contain a built-in SPF. Shall I tell stories of my middle-aged teammates who've already had "suspicious" moles cut-off and biopsied from their shoulders and knees? Maybe we would all be better playing, long-term, in the clothing from Suzanne Lenglen's days.

Especially for us...hacks. And let's face it. That's what most of us are. Even if your child is some [sports] prodigy, they'll probably...hopefully (if you haven't ruined it for them)...end up like the rest of us and play for FUN. Whatever tiny edge might be gleamed from micro-managed clothing simply doesn't matter.

And that brings me to the final piece of this business. As the (avid) tennis-playing mother of two young girls, I find it increasingly hard to dress them appropriately: for school, church, play and sport. The Parents control the checkbook. If it's too short or too skimpy....I'm not buyin' it. The Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders et al. can dress like that...but not my child. If my daughter begs me to try-out for the whatevers cheerleader squad --- I'll first want to see what they'll be wearing. It comes down to ME. And I say NO to that crap!

EDIT to add: If this really was a "clothing" issue...why didn't you bring it up in the "Shoes and Apparel" section of this forum?
 
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ClarkC

Hall of Fame
When I see the videos of Shishkina, I see a girl dressed for athletics. That is a surprising reaction to me, because I am just about the biggest prude on earth and not ashamed to be identified as such. Even so, I have to make a few comments on this discussion.

First, the least productive discussions in the world tend to be those where the parties make accusations based on their guess as to the intentions of other people. You cannot prove or disprove what someone else's intentions are. This critique applies equally to those who claim to know what Shishkina's mother's intentions are, and to those who claim that persons criticizing Shishkina's outfit are motivated by tennis parent jealousy.

Second, let's try a little thought experiment. A fat, ugly man goes to a swimming pool with a tight fitting and small bathing suit that has only one layer. (I should have forewarned any reader who just ate a meal before I posted this. :) ) Let us further hypothesize that not a single woman in the world would find him exciting, and that his intent was not to excite anyone, but only to avoid the discomfort that his other bathing suit gives him.

I would say that his bathing suit is immodest and inappropriate. I would say the same if he were fit and handsome and had the same pure intentions.

Conclusions:

1. Modesty and immodesty are not determined solely by the intentions of the wearer.

2. Modesty and immodesty are not determined solely by the lustful reactions, or lack of the same, from viewers.

3. Modesty and immodesty are not determined by whether you are attractive or not.

4. Modesty and immodesty are not determined by whether you are male or female. (We are often terribly one-sided in our judgments on this score.)

Modesty is based on social customs (which differ across societies) that pertain to what is considered properly private and properly public. The detailed outlines of every part of my body do not need to be made public, regardless of my attractiveness or lack of it.

My objection to certain male bathing suits is not based on the belief that the human body is dirty. This is a straw man argument. It is possible to teach a child that his/her body is just fine but it is private. That is why we close the door to the stall in the public rest room; not because our bodies are dirty, but because they are private. I assume that TCF and others are able to teach privacy in these matters without traumatizing their children and making them think their bodies are dirty.

All that said, I find the wrestler's uniform pictured earlier in this thread to be much more immodest than Maria Shishkina's volleyball shorts. I bet a film of Olympic wrestling from the 1950's would show a different uniform. The change from then until now is a change in society's attitudes towards modesty. Much of our society takes the attitude expressed by some in this thread, that if something is functional and worn only with the intent to be functional, then it is above criticism and there is no modesty concern to discuss. In my hypothetical, I don't particularly care how functional the man's bathing suit is to him; that does not relieve him of all concerns about modesty.

Others here can honestly disagree with me and state that they think that volleyball shorts are immodest, and I understand their point of view. But we can do without the red herrings and invective and speculations on motives that have dominated this thread.
 

jht32

Rookie
Except for swimming, which other sports attire is not acceptable at the mall?

gymnastics
diving
track and field
figure skating

for me, any type of compression shorts/carpis/pants that are worn as a single layer is inappropriate for mall shopping
 

jht32

Rookie
The days of mini-speedos are gone.

For competitive swimming, speedos briefs never really left and if even if they did leave, they are coming back. The high-tech suits became too much of an advantage for swimmers because of their buoyancy and compression of body fat. To level the playing field, the full body suits are being banned for men.

At the college and even high-level high school swimming, it is common for the men to wear the speedo briefs. For the casual observer or non-competitive swimmers, they kind of snicker at the speedos. But for the serious swimmers, it is no big deal.

One final thought...ancient olympics athletes competed naked :shock:
 

Angle Queen

Professional
For competitive swimming, speedos briefs never really left and if even if they did leave, they are coming back. The high-tech suits became too much of an advantage for swimmers because of their buoyancy and compression of body fat. To level the playing field, the full body suits are being banned for men.

At the college and even high-level high school swimming, it is common for the men to wear the speedo briefs. For the casual observer or non-competitive swimmers, they kind of snicker at the speedos. But for the serious swimmers, it is no big deal.

One final thought...ancient olympics athletes competed naked :shock:
Fair point, jht. I knew there was a lot of controversy over those full-body suits but hadn't really kept up to know their "banned" status. Know the (younger) serious swimmers still wear them. Older guys like my husband who still swim for fitness or tri-athletes wear jammers (I think that what he calls 'em).
 

Angle Queen

Professional
One more thought, though, on the swimmers and their suits. That's a sport where, literally, hundredths of a second can mean the difference between a podium spot and not making the next heat. If the clothing can make a difference, by all means, go for it. And apparently, the full-body folks did such a good job at it that it became too much about the clothing and not the athlete beneath.

Tennis is not like that.
 
When I see the videos of Shishkina, I see a girl dressed for athletics. That is a surprising reaction to me, because I am just about the biggest prude on earth and not ashamed to be identified as such. Even so, I have to make a few comments on this discussion.

First, the least productive discussions in the world tend to be those where the parties make accusations based on their guess as to the intentions of other people. You cannot prove or disprove what someone else's intentions are. This critique applies equally to those who claim to know what Shishkina's mother's intentions are, and to those who claim that persons criticizing Shishkina's outfit are motivated by tennis parent jealousy.

Second, let's try a little thought experiment. A fat, ugly man goes to a swimming pool with a tight fitting and small bathing suit that has only one layer. (I should have forewarned any reader who just ate a meal before I posted this. :) ) Let us further hypothesize that not a single woman in the world would find him exciting, and that his intent was not to excite anyone, but only to avoid the discomfort that his other bathing suit gives him.

I would say that his bathing suit is immodest and inappropriate. I would say the same if he were fit and handsome and had the same pure intentions.

Conclusions:

1. Modesty and immodesty are not determined solely by the intentions of the wearer.

2. Modesty and immodesty are not determined solely by the lustful reactions, or lack of the same, from viewers.

3. Modesty and immodesty are not determined by whether you are attractive or not.

4. Modesty and immodesty are not determined by whether you are male or female. (We are often terribly one-sided in our judgments on this score.)

Modesty is based on social customs (which differ across societies) that pertain to what is considered properly private and properly public. The detailed outlines of every part of my body do not need to be made public, regardless of my attractiveness or lack of it.

My objection to certain male bathing suits is not based on the belief that the human body is dirty. This is a straw man argument. It is possible to teach a child that his/her body is just fine but it is private. That is why we close the door to the stall in the public rest room; not because our bodies are dirty, but because they are private. I assume that TCF and others are able to teach privacy in these matters without traumatizing their children and making them think their bodies are dirty.

All that said, I find the wrestler's uniform pictured earlier in this thread to be much more immodest than Maria Shishkina's volleyball shorts. I bet a film of Olympic wrestling from the 1950's would show a different uniform. The change from then until now is a change in society's attitudes towards modesty. Much of our society takes the attitude expressed by some in this thread, that if something is functional and worn only with the intent to be functional, then it is above criticism and there is no modesty concern to discuss. In my hypothetical, I don't particularly care how functional the man's bathing suit is to him; that does not relieve him of all concerns about modesty.

Others here can honestly disagree with me and state that they think that volleyball shorts are immodest, and I understand their point of view. But we can do without the red herrings and invective and speculations on motives that have dominated this thread.

Some decent points but I think you missed on several others. Don't over complicate it. This is easy. Improper dress at a mall or school equals bad.....volleyball shorts during athletic pursuits equals good.

I disagree about the not knowing its parental jealousy though. When posters just happen to have tennis girls and just happen to say other things such as her mom is gaming the system with her looks, etc....it does not take Sherlock Holmes to see through that act. Been in junior tennis too long to be fooled anymore by tennis parents. The poster forgot the part where this girl has been top ranked in every group she has entered. Had the comments been strictly "I don't think those shorts are appropriate for tennis", fine. But they were followed with sentiments about her mother using her looks and dressing for agents and that it works for Maria....when the facts are she is a top player and IMG sponsors some very ordinary looking girls, I have seen them personally. Quite easy to see the agenda of the posters go way past the dress code.

I think you also missed the boat on the closing the bathroom stall argument. They close the bathroom stall door in Europe, but they also have a very healthy view of the human body. Kids are taught from a young age that a breast at the beach is a body part, not something to be giggled about like we do here. A healthy attitude toward nudity at the beach has nothing to do with privacy such as when using the bathroom. The FACT is that they have way less sexual crimes in Europe because they grow up with a more healthy view of body parts.

We need to be careful as parents. By all means, proper modesty and teaching girls to not use skimpy dress at a young age as a provocative method. Let them take their time and have a childhood. I am a total PRUDE in that regard!!

But this is 100% the opposite. A girl should NEVER be made to feel her body is something to be hidden in an athletic setting. This girl's intentions are 100% pure performance driven. There could be sickos everywhere, beach, pool, gym meet....you protect with strict laws when they try to contact a kid, not by dressing kids in burlap sacks.

If you want to say tennis players should dress a certain way out of culture such as wearing white at Wimbledon, then say just that. Do not equate volleyball shorts to a caked makeup 10 year old at the mall in short shorts, totally different thing.

Only 3 groups of people would disagree with her shorts. 1. People who think tennis attire should be only skirts. 2. Confused people who can't figure out skimpy shorts for provocative dress vs athletic wear. 3. Jealous tennis parents who are looking for a reason a girl gets IMG support and their kid does not.

I know dang well what group several posters on here fit into. # 3...all day long!
 
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Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
My only question is that if they are such great performance enhancers than we should see male volleyball players wearing them as well as tennis players. But we already have seen one response to the male visual(TCF says we should be proud of the physical form), and as anything but a prude I do not want to see young women and pro's playing in mini shorts and tank tops that would be heading down a slippery slope on several fronts.
 
My only question is that if they are such great performance enhancers than we should see male volleyball players wearing them as well as tennis players. But we already have seen one response to the male visual(TCF says we should be proud of the physical form), and as anything but a prude I do not want to see young women and pro's playing in mini shorts and tank tops that would be heading down a slippery slope on several fronts.

1. Male volleyball players have anatomy that would not allow them to wear those shorts comfortably from a cultural standpoint. Their package would show and not be appropriate for most men. Most men do not feel comfortable dressed like that. You don't feel comfortable, your performance suffers and is not enhanced.

2. I said just the opposite. Mini shorts and tank tops would serve no athletic purpose and be simply to be provocative.

I said young girls should not be made to feel ashamed when playing sports, as long as the attire is for performance and not pure provocation. I said push up bras and slitted dresses and cleavage shirts would be totally inappropriate.
 
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willshot

Semi-Pro
My only question is that if they are such great performance enhancers than we should see male volleyball players wearing them as well as tennis players. But we already have seen one response to the male visual(TCF says we should be proud of the physical form), and as anything but a prude I do not want to see young women and pro's playing in mini shorts and tank tops that would be heading down a slippery slope on several fronts.

Can you imagine if the opposing team hits a powerfull smash spike right at the guys jewels whiles wearing them nutt huggers? In real life, no man would wear those playing vollyball. All it does is CREATES at BIG FAT TARGET for the opposing team! simple. lol
 

Bash and Crash

Semi-Pro
1. Male volleyball players have anatomy that would not allow them to wear those shorts. They would be uncomfortable for many men playing tennis and thus performance would not be enhanced.

2. I said just the opposite. Mini shorts and tank tops would serve no athletic purpose and be simply to be provocative.

I said young girls should not be made to feel ashamed when playing sports, as long as the attire is for performance and not pure provocation. I said push up bras and slitted dresses and cleavage shirts would be totally inappropriate.

Cool, no problem, sports clothing will always be evolving, men used to have tight clothes and women loose, and now we are heading the other way. My old high school shorts are almost the same as the Adidas girls shorts now. We will see how it plays out and what society says.
 
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