Advice needed...Flat shots with PS97 don's land in...

Guys, I write here in search fro some tuning advice. Here is teh background

I had a PS97 paint stripped and repainted under a new PJ. This changed the specs of thet racket to a certain extent and allowed me to customize it to 355gr, 10.4HL, 325 SW. Unfortunatley I got a TFCC so I decided to play with a lower static weight. New specs are 338gr, 7.7HL, 322SW. That means a RW of 161 (vs 170 before), but significantly more forgining to the wrist in case of bad timing. Other than my wrist I never had a problem with any pain. In both versions I play with Xone Bi-phase main (26kg) - Alu power cross (24kg).

Switching to the new lighter version gave me the following problem. When I intend to crush the ball, it almost 80% lands way far from the base line. The lead I have put is on 12 and at 7'' mark (cannot remember now how much) and as much I have struggled to keep the ball in, it seems I cannot. The result is that I am not enjoying the full swng speed I can produce, hence play a significnatly lower pace game, always trying to use spin. Don't get me wrong, I still get some significnat pressure with high trajectory deep shots to the opponents but....I miss the time when I could swing as hard as I coulsd and still get the ball in.

What would be areas that I can - if at all - tune teh racket to test if it works? Constraits are that I want to keep the amx 340gr static weight and a soft sringbed.

Would increasing twistweight more help at all? (there is no lead at 3-9), does ti make sense to increase cross tensions higher than mains? (I believe I ahve read somewhere that this distorts the frame)...How about increasing a bit the size of the grip?

Thnaks in advance for any suggestions.
 

QuentinFederer

Professional
You'll need to try to add a bit more top spin to get the ball to dip down inside the line. Your reduced racket weight means your likely hitting the ball with a faster racket head speed but no change in technique.
 
Thnx for taking the time to reply. I guess you state the obvious, that it needs more spin. However this is not what I am after. I can generate heavy spin shots with a high problem is on purposefully flat shots. I guess the lower static weight despite being more head heavy, somehow "tilts" the head in a way that allows for ball moonshots in parallel to the ground. I mean the racket feels too powerful under a full swing!

That said, putting spin, is counterintuitive to what i want to try to accomplish which is get the ball in on a flat shot.
 

n8dawg6

Legend
if youre hitting the right kind of topspin, the ball stays low and accelerates off the court when it hits. even a "flat" ball needs some action on it.
 

QuentinFederer

Professional
You could try putting the ALU in the mains and x1 in the crosses if you don't want to change your technique. That would reduce the power of the stringbed.
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
Thnx for taking the time to reply. I guess you state the obvious, that it needs more spin. However this is not what I am after. I can generate heavy spin shots with a high problem is on purposefully flat shots. I guess the lower static weight despite being more head heavy, somehow "tilts" the head in a way that allows for ball moonshots in parallel to the ground. I mean the racket feels too powerful under a full swing!

That said, putting spin, is counterintuitive to what i want to try to accomplish which is get the ball in on a flat shot.
Confused by this....
But reading through it, here is my 2 cents. Please don't take this personally. Just pure comments and advise based on a lot of experience.
First I see way too many players, basically over leading and or leading incorrectly. You should know what you are using for lead specs.
Second, I confused on what frame you are using the RF or whatever the TFCC is?
Third, any wrist or finger pain can be a sign of Tennis or Golfers elbow. So get that checked out first.
Fourth, I get all the frames back to stock specs. This will bring your plow throu & swing weight down.
Number Five, if you have not mastered your ground strokes, full throttle will do more harm then good.
Think less testosterone and more strategy with intent and precision.
Sure, nothing like unloading on a nice sitting duck or putaway shot.
When you have the urge to unload, think like 60 - 80% on your swing, you be surprised of the results.
Fifth, work on technique. If you really what to unload on your forehand shorts, topspin is the way to go.
If you are mainly more comfortable with a heavy flat ball, think about a low powered dense pattern frame( 18 x 20).

That is all I got for now.
Be aware of the wrist man and fun - play smart!
Add more weapons to your arsenal ....keep those opponents guessing and in panic mode...
 
Confused by this....
But reading through it, here is my 2 cents. Please don't take this personally. Just pure comments and advise based on a lot of experience.
First I see way too many players, basically over leading and or leading incorrectly. You should know what you are using for lead specs.
Second, I confused on what frame you are using the RF or whatever the TFCC is?
Third, any wrist or finger pain can be a sign of Tennis or Golfers elbow. So get that checked out first.
Fourth, I get all the frames back to stock specs. This will bring your plow throu & swing weight down.
Number Five, if you have not mastered your ground strokes, full throttle will do more harm then good.
Think less testosterone and more strategy with intent and precision.
Sure, nothing like unloading on a nice sitting duck or putaway shot.
When you have the urge to unload, think like 60 - 80% on your swing, you be surprised of the results.
Fifth, work on technique. If you really what to unload on your forehand shorts, topspin is the way to go.
If you are mainly more comfortable with a heavy flat ball, think about a low powered dense pattern frame( 18 x 20).

That is all I got for now.
Be aware of the wrist man and fun - play smart!
Add more weapons to your arsenal ....keep those opponents guessing and in panic mode...

Truly appreciate bthe time to read and reply. From the andwrs i understand that i don't explain myslef in a way to help you guys guys help me.

First, TFCC is
Triangular Fibrocartilage Complex. Just google it snd you can fmd lots of stuff on that injury. Has been checked, healed withotu surgery but i have to paly for the next 6 months by using a wrap with tape on a specific way. To avoid putting more strain I needed to lower the static weight. Especially sicne I am not a pro, and there are times that i get chocked. You only need 1 wrong timing and placement to get hurt again.

The frame i use is a PS97. Taking out the original paint significnalty reduces weight, SW, even weight distribution as the weight being put up from repanting it is roughly 30% of what being taken out. So the thing is, when i payed with the sme techique but a higher static weight racket my flat shots were great. I play with a lower static weight racket, a little lower SW, i hit the same style, i feel i am swinging woth the same technoque and power, but flat shots fly away.

As proposed by Quentin, i can try to put the ALU on the mains...and give that a try.

I had the PJ about a year ago, imagine a dark grey racket, black letters and carbon fiber wrap vinyl on the head where the pws is.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
You do understand that even when Roger Federer crushes a mid court ball that his FH still has a load of spin. Even Thomas Berdych who is considered a "flat" shot player averages near 2,000 rpm on his FH. If you are trying to hit a truly flat ball meaning a ball that isn't spinning, my advice is to stop it. Instead, try to hit a low trajectory ball that clears the net by 12" to 18" that still has a lot of spin and pace. this is what Federer does - he lowers the trajectory, hits with ore pace but still has lots of spin. If you insist on trying to hit no spin shots against my wise advice, increase tension on your stringbed and consider getting an 18x20 string pattern.
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
Good luck man, it is your body, your game and your frame, your paint..
Remember your main strings domain ( which now will be ALU) the feel and play of the string bed.
So the string bed will now be not feel as soft.
Means more a little more impact on your arm...
Less power..??.tension matters also..
But your swing will be the same.
More harm then good??...you are the judge and jury of that..again your body...
I believe in keeping it simple, logical and safe...
The more variables you toss in, can muck things up...
........... more than one can shake a low static weight stick at...............

have fun man and play smart and safe...
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Aim lower to the net.
Even Monfils cannot hit long if he clear's the net by 6". Delpo and Berdyck also can't hit long if they swing as fast as they can, hit a flat ball, and clear the net by 6".
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
I'm a Volkl guy - I keep their C10 and O10 325g (customized) in my bag, but I picked up a PS 97 this summer just to try out something different. I knew I was going to get a different sort of performance with this frame because it's lighter, less head-light, and a bit less flexy than my regular racquets, but I was hot to experiment.

I've only tried different layouts of syn. gut in my PS 97, but I haven't found anything so far that has given me a predictable sort of performance with it (syn. gut works great for me in my Volkls). The stock version was what I expected - too light and unstable, especially compared with my lead-tuned Volkls, which weigh in up around 12.8 oz. I actually hurt my arm and shoulder a little bit, since I was over-swinging to try to command the ball the same as with my heavier frames. I knew what I was getting into, but I've still been a bit disappointed with this adventure.

The next step was to put only a couple of grams total on the hoop of my PS 97 at 3/9 o'clock, but also several grams on the handle to get the racquet balanced up closer to 10 pts. HL. For me, that's home sweet home for handling/maneuvering in almost any frame I play. This didn't solve much for me, but at least the racquet's swing behavior was more predictable and it felt slightly more stable through the ball. This PS 97 seems to have a bit of a hot sweet spot, which is not uncommon among different ProStaffs, but I think that too much weight added to the hoop could produce too many flyers.

If you want to try another tuning experiment, I'd say try taking the balance in a more head-light direction, but don't add much if any heft to the hoop if it's solid enough through the ball for your taste. It may require adding at least 8-12 grams to your handle - don't remember what I added - but more HL balance without extra beef added to the head may help with keeping the ball in the court, even when you take a flatter swing with your rig.

If I find anything that helps with my Wilson's control, I'll check back here and pass it along.
 
I'm a Volkl guy - I keep their C10 and O10 325g (customized) in my bag, but I picked up a PS 97 this summer just to try out something different. I knew I was going to get a different sort of performance with this frame because it's lighter, less head-light, and a bit less flexy than my regular racquets, but I was hot to experiment.

I've only tried different layouts of syn. gut in my PS 97, but I haven't found anything so far that has given me a predictable sort of performance with it (syn. gut works great for me in my Volkls). The stock version was what I expected - too light and unstable, especially compared with my lead-tuned Volkls, which weigh in up around 12.8 oz. I actually hurt my arm and shoulder a little bit, since I was over-swinging to try to command the ball the same as with my heavier frames. I knew what I was getting into, but I've still been a bit disappointed with this adventure.

The next step was to put only a couple of grams total on the hoop of my PS 97 at 3/9 o'clock, but also several grams on the handle to get the racquet balanced up closer to 10 pts. HL. For me, that's home sweet home for handling/maneuvering in almost any frame I play. This didn't solve much for me, but at least the racquet's swing behavior was more predictable and it felt slightly more stable through the ball. This PS 97 seems to have a bit of a hot sweet spot, which is not uncommon among different ProStaffs, but I think that too much weight added to the hoop could produce too many flyers.

If you want to try another tuning experiment, I'd say try taking the balance in a more head-light direction, but don't add much if any heft to the hoop if it's solid enough through the ball for your taste. It may require adding at least 8-12 grams to your handle - don't remember what I added - but more HL balance without extra beef added to the head may help with keeping the ball in the court, even when you take a flatter swing with your rig.

If I find anything that helps with my Wilson's control, I'll check back here and pass it along.

Thnaks for the reply.

If I am to maintain the same static weight - which is a must - and altering the weight disribution to a more headlight one, it will distort my MgR/I. So I am reluctnat to do so. To go to a more HL setup will require a more heavy frame, which I don't want to right now. Guess I must change my technique after all....no easy solutions here. Truth is I increased TW by changing th weights placments and see how that goes...
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
If you're hitting with the same amount of power and technique as before, but the same shots that used to go in are now sailing out, then it may be a simple case of overswinging or making contact a bit too early.

Different racquet means different timing--and although technically you're still hitting with the PS97, you've changed the specs quite significantly, as you yourself have pointed out.

Because of this, you may want to time your swing so that you make contact slightly later than usual.
 

Anton

Legend
Switching to the new lighter version gave me the following problem. When I intend to crush the ball, it almost 80% lands way far from the base line. The lead I have put is on 12 and at 7'' mark (cannot remember now how much) and as much I have struggled to keep the ball in, it seems I cannot. The result is that I am not enjoying the full swng speed I can produce, hence play a significnatly lower pace game, always trying to use spin.
What is "7" mark" ?

Using Bi-phase mains with poly is a waste of money, you get inferior string bed for MORE money since it pops so much faster than proper natural gut (like Klip Legend).

Having said that I don't think that's the problem - aside from technique I obviously can't comment on, I think you can try going fot more torsional stability at 3+9 and maybe V throat, PS97 really needs that for more stable response - it's a stiff frame which will produce above average power and if the ball is not being forced into it's stringbed the spin won't be there to bring it down.
 
What is "7" mark" ?

Using Bi-phase mains with poly is a waste of money, you get inferior string bed for MORE money since it pops so much faster than proper natural gut (like Klip Legend).

Having said that I don't think that's the problem - aside from technique I obviously can't comment on, I think you can try going fot more torsional stability at 3+9 and maybe V throat, PS97 really needs that for more stable response - it's a stiff frame which will produce above average power and if the ball is not being forced into it's stringbed the spin won't be there to bring it down.
Thanks Bender and Anton for chipping in.

Maybe Bender is right that I should have timed my swings differently, but since I have already during the w/w tuned the rakcet for more torsional stability as Anton suggested, i will try this and if it does not work, will try swinging earlier.

Thats said, I totally agree on what Anton says. Let's all agree that my PS97 is not a PS97 due to the tuning etc. however his comment that the ball needs to be forced into the stringbed, is totally legit. in my prvious heavier setup this is what I had avhieved...could swing hard even when there was no pace from the opponent to achieve what Anton says. It just does not seem to work now...
 

Racer41c

Professional
I've found the PS97 to do that as well. Granted my stroke production may not be great, but I do need a setup that helps me keep the ball in. What works for me in that racquet is a lower powered control string. I've also found that racquet doesn't like high tensions (like gut at 60). So what I use is ISO control 16 in the crosses and a control oriented poly in the mains. Works for me, your mileage may vary.
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
Guys, I write here in search fro some tuning advice. Here is teh background

I had a PS97 paint stripped and repainted under a new PJ. This changed the specs of thet racket to a certain extent and allowed me to customize it to 355gr, 10.4HL, 325 SW. Unfortunatley I got a TFCC so I decided to play with a lower static weight. New specs are 338gr, 7.7HL, 322SW. That means a RW of 161 (vs 170 before), but significantly more forgining to the wrist in case of bad timing. Other than my wrist I never had a problem with any pain. In both versions I play with Xone Bi-phase main (26kg) - Alu power cross (24kg).

Switching to the new lighter version gave me the following problem. When I intend to crush the ball, it almost 80% lands way far from the base line. The lead I have put is on 12 and at 7'' mark (cannot remember now how much) and as much I have struggled to keep the ball in, it seems I cannot. The result is that I am not enjoying the full swng speed I can produce, hence play a significnatly lower pace game, always trying to use spin. Don't get me wrong, I still get some significnat pressure with high trajectory deep shots to the opponents but....I miss the time when I could swing as hard as I coulsd and still get the ball in.

What would be areas that I can - if at all - tune teh racket to test if it works? Constraits are that I want to keep the amx 340gr static weight and a soft sringbed.

Would increasing twistweight more help at all? (there is no lead at 3-9), does ti make sense to increase cross tensions higher than mains? (I believe I ahve read somewhere that this distorts the frame)...How about increasing a bit the size of the grip?

Thnaks in advance for any suggestions.
Try Babolat Elastocross String Savers on the sweet spot. It works 2 ways (for me)

1. Increases string tension
2. Increases spin by as the string savers are teflon and slide across easily and snap back
 
I decided to give a try to the Mojo setup. Only I could not get my hands to klip nat gut and replaced it with Kirschbaum. It works just fine at 24/24.5 stringed tension - which i you deduct a 10% loss of tension form the Isospeed Pro classic at crosses you get to 24/22.
 

Anton

Legend
I decided to give a try to the Mojo setup. Only I could not get my hands to klip nat gut and replaced it with Kirschbaum. It works just fine at 24/24.5 stringed tension - which i you deduct a 10% loss of tension form the Isospeed Pro classic at crosses you get to 24/22.
Did you end up adding some lead for more stability/spin?
 
So why not look there before you start pointing the finger at your equipment?

But again, I must remind myself that this is the equipment section. What else would people put the blame on?
Simply because the best result comes from the individual combination of tuned equipment and technique level each and every one has. You change any of the two variables and the other variable must follow suit. Otherwise why have so many combinations of racket weights, stiffness, lengths, materials etc...and not have one global racket for all? That way the guy who would be able to adapt his technique best for playing that given racket would be champion...
 

chikoo

Hall of Fame
Simply because the best result comes from the individual combination of tuned equipment and technique level each and every one has. You change any of the two variables and the other variable must follow suit. Otherwise why have so many combinations of racket weights, stiffness, lengths, materials etc...and not have one global racket for all? That way the guy who would be able to adapt his technique best for playing that given racket would be champion...
Now we are getting into NASCAR & F1 territory
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
You might try modifying the takeback for a shorter swing. I assume that you're in an attacking position so that you're between the baseline and the service line. Assuming good footwork, you can adjust your swing for less of a takeback and hit your stroke full-throttle but it won't have as much power. It will also take some time away from the other player.

This assumes that you're already hitting a decent amount of spin.
 

Muppet

Legend
If you're most interested in keeping your old technique with a minimal increase in static weight to the racquet, try this:

The lead modifications you've been making to the "new" racquet are not getting you where you want to go, which is back toward your old specs. A very head light racquet is more whippy and will swat at the ball more, while a less head light one will plow through the ball more. You have gone from doing the job with a saw-balanced racquet to trying to use a hammer-balanced racquet. If you take the "new" racquet and add weight on the handle, you may wind up marginally heavier than your "new" racquet stock, but you'll get a whippier, more control oriented result that will allow you to keep your old technique (pretty much.)

You'll want to remove the lead you have at 7" and on the handle. Replace your grip with a leather one or if you prefer the feel of a synthetic, place enough lead on the pallet to give you enough HL balance. It makes a large difference where you place the lead on the pallet. I usually add 2g at 7", 1g at 2.2", and 1g at 1", unless I'm really beefing a racquet up. After that, I use blue tac putty in the butt cap trap door to fine-tune. Unfortunately, many racquets don't have trap doors and it's not very convenient to tune the handle weight. But basically, more weight at 7" will give the racquet a more solid feel and help it swing more efficiently. But this can cause you to over-hit. Before adding blue tac, add any small amount of lead you want in the hoop. It's easiest to make the final touches to the balance on the handle.

Final note: weight in the upper part of the racquet has more leverage on the balance point than weight on the handle. Therefore, add 1/3 the amount of weight at 12:00 as you use on the handle and 1/2 the amount at 3:00 and 9:00 as you use on the handle. If your resulting racquet feels too harsh or wired, just stick a gram of lead to the underside of the bridge. That will tame the polarization and mellow it out a bit.
 
Last edited:

Will Wilson

Semi-Pro
It's not the racket. With correct technique you should be able to adjust to a different setup relatively quickly. Bobby Riggs beat people with a whisk broom.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
The problem was probably too much lead at 7''. It's not the quantity at the handle itself, but quantity at 7'' that made a difference. Taking off some weight from the hoop and placing lead at 7'' both made your racquet much whippier, so I suppose your RHS got higher. In combo with flat hitting you got suddenly too much power to control. And what happens also is that with bigger RHS you may get more string movement, which increases a launch angle too.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
if youre hitting the right kind of topspin, the ball stays low and accelerates off the court when it hits. even a "flat" ball needs some action on it.
Yes, I would guess that even when pros step in and hit a lower trajectory shot going for a winner that the ball still has several hundred RPMs on it. Maybe some exceptions but all in all, even the aggressive shots at pro level are still spinning quite a bit.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
If you want to solve try to solve this thru specs, you could try increasing string tension 2 to 4 lbs. Or, flipping your hybrid setup to use poly mains with a nylon cross. Or, you could try slightly less powerful strings - x1bp is a pretty lively string, you could try TF multifeel or TF nrg2 which are a little less lively, and you could try Kirschbaum Max Power or Lux4G which are really stiff polys with a more muted less powerful feel. Also, if you are using 17G strings, go up to 16G which will be a bit less lively.
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
Yes, I would guess that even when pros step in and hit a lower trajectory shot going for a winner that the ball still has several hundred RPMs on it. Maybe some exceptions but all in all, even the aggressive shots at pro level are still spinning quite a bit.
I wouldn't be surprised if pro's 'flat shots' might have 1000 RPM or similar.
 
Currently I have switched from this racket to a Donnay P1 GT. I played with it customized to my preferred specs with X1/Lux Alu (as this was a demo racket). I had noticed a better ball trajectory for my liking even if at flat shots. I guess the fact that despite the 16x19 it is a lot denser on the throat vs the PS97, had some contribution. Just to be clear, I did not decide to change the racket because of the thread title...it just so happened to test the P1 GT and really liked its feel. Before this change I had already managed to tune and solve the issue by using the Mojo setup instead of the X1/Lx Alu.

Now the P1 GT has been strung with Ashaway Crossfire. Look forward to testing this out.

I appreciate the input from all of you.
 
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