Advice on how to improve kick serve? (Video Inside)

[AlphaCDjkr]

1. I hate the low amount of kick I get.
2. I hate the low power.

The only thing I can honestly promote this serve for, is it's consistency. But who cares if its consistent, if its consistently set up as the receiver's return winner?

What I'm looking for is:
1. Advice on how to improve serving stance/posture/blah
2. Advice on improving the mechanics of the serve?

Kick Serves

Thank you, everyone!

 

[Nanshiki]

Swing faster.

 

[phucng_10]

Don't know if it's me or the video, but do I hear a framing sound?

 

[AlphaCDjkr]

Don't know if it's me or the video, but do I hear a framing sound?

No, It would be awesome if I could always frame a serve and have it go in

My strings are Big Banger Roughs, so the strings have that ugly clunky metallic noise.

 

[Mbautista]

higher toss so you have more time to set up. Use that time to really generate power from the feet/knees/core all the way to your swing.

 

[phucng_10]

Oh, I see. Well, your serve just seems to dive right down onto the service box. Try to keep your feet together when you're serving and your arm up when you throw the ball. Honestly, I still haven't been able to get my serves in. I'm still practicing on it, but I know what to do and how to bend my knees and all.

You might want to check out this video if you're planning to learn a kick-serve. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Z2jzKhVp4

 

[Nanshiki]

No, It would be awesome if I could always frame a serve and have it go in

My strings are Big Banger Roughs, so the strings have that ugly clunky metallic noise.

Get a damper and the sound will go away.

Also, kick serves are just one of those things you've got to do a bajillion times before it gets decent. It's not really something that a few pointers are going to magically make better. Unless you're doing it the wrong way, of course...

On another note, I find that older strings make them much harder to do. When you're strings get really lose, you'll probably need to hit it right at the sweet spot to get the spin required.

For now, just forget that you're trying to hit second serves and swing the racquet just as fast as you would on a first serve. Faster, actually. But just swing it up the backside of the ball instead of through the ball.

 

[psYcon]

Kick serve is all about how many revolutions you can put on the ball using your racquet. Try bending your back, coil and rebound.

 

[matchmaker]

Toss higher, and take a bigger backswing. Use pronation (last minute extension of the forearm) to get more racquet head speed. You will also need more follow through. Bend your knees more.

 

[AlphaCDjkr]

Get a damper and the sound will go away.

Also, kick serves are just one of those things you've got to do a bajillion times before it gets decent. It's not really something that a few pointers are going to magically make better. Unless you're doing it the wrong way, of course...

On another note, I find that older strings make them much harder to do. When you're strings get really lose, you'll probably need to hit it right at the sweet spot to get the spin required.

For now, just forget that you're trying to hit second serves and swing the racquet just as fast as you would on a first serve. Faster, actually. But just swing it up the backside of the ball instead of through the ball.

Oh, there is a shock dampener on it. The noise is much worse without it :|
And usually when I swing any faster I tend to hit the frame and send the ball off to the moon. Or, I focus on the spin aspect so much more than the power that I smother the serve into the net.

Toss higher, and take a bigger backswing. Use pronation (last minute extension of the forearm) to get more racquet head speed. You will also need more follow through. Bend your knees more.

Bend my knees more, huh? I wonder if I'll lose my balance. I've never tried intentionally bending my knees/back more than normal, so I'll give it a shot.

 

[appppppppple]

1. I hate the low amount of kick I get.
2. I hate the low power.

The only thing I can honestly promote this serve for, is it's consistency. But who cares if its consistent, if its consistently set up as the receiver's return winner?

What I'm looking for is:
1. Advice on how to improve serving stance/posture/blah
2. Advice on improving the mechanics of the serve?

Kick Serves

Thank you, everyone!

cut your hair so you can see the ball LOL!

 

[phucng_10]

Bend my knees more, huh? I wonder if I'll lose my balance. I've never tried intentionally bending my knees/back more than normal, so I'll give it a shot.

Yeah, it's a bit scary when you bend your knees at first because you feel like you're going to lose balance. Then when you get used to bending your knees a bit more, the unbalanced feeling will go away.

 

[AlphaCDjkr]

cut your hair so you can see the ball LOL!

THAT IS THE BEST ADVICE I'VE HEARD SO FAR!

Yeah, it's a bit scary when you bend your knees at first because you feel like you're going to lose balance. Then when you get used to bending your knees a bit more, the unbalanced feeling will go away.

I see! Well I'm supposed to be playing tennis in about 4 hours with some friends, I'll see if I can try not falling over.

 

[Nellie]

Quite simply, you at not hitting up enough at the ball. For a kick serve, you need to stay sideways longer and to hit up and through the ball to impart a lot of topspin. One of the reasons you need to bend you knees is to increase the upward motion during your stroke. If you look at the video, you can see (and hear) that there is not a lot of upwards brushing of the ball. When you hit a good kick serve, you can hear a soft brushing noice (almost like a "swish"). When you here a "twack" a solid contact, you are not brushing enough on the ball and are hitting mostly a flat serve.

 

[Nanshiki]

If you've got more than a month or so of practice on those strings, or have had a better serve at some previous point, I'd suggest restringing... my serve gradually goes from OK to awful the older my strings get.

 

[AlphaCDjkr]

If you've got more than a month or so of practice on those strings, or have had a better serve at some previous point, I'd suggest restringing... my serve gradually goes from OK to awful the older my strings get.

The strings have been played for a month and a 2 weeks. I see your point, good thing they play like they're going to break soon. I can't restring whenever I want, since I have no job= no money, and parents only pay whenever I break strings.

I guess I hope I break them soon.

 

[El Pelele]

1. I hate the low amount of kick I get.
2. I hate the low power.

The only thing I can honestly promote this serve for, is it's consistency. But who cares if its consistent, if its consistently set up as the receiver's return winner?

What I'm looking for is:
1. Advice on how to improve serving stance/posture/blah
2. Advice on improving the mechanics of the serve?

Kick Serves

Thank you, everyone!

First of all, calm down man, relax, you look too hyper or accelerated like roddick. Take it easy.

Which grip are you using there? You should be using either continental or eastern backhand for this serve, preferably eastern backhand. Or you might try the grip I use, which is neither of those, it's in between both, but it feels great for me. Whatever.

Also, you're throwing the ball too low and too in front, throw it a bit higher and over your head, or a little more behind it.

Another thing, for this serve, you have to be more sideways, you're almost facing the net in your video.

Bend your knees and go after the ball too. And you have to swing very fast to get the spin required.

 

[El Pelele]

Oh and for those here saying strings are that big a deal, it's not, today I played whith the strings about to snap, they're barely hanging, and I could still serve alright. It's all about technique.

 

[Nanshiki]

It depends on the person and the strings... you might just play better with strings that are about to snap.

I play best with strings that have a few hours on them. If they're too lose the ball won't have enough control.

 

[larry10s]

for the kicker to kick well it needs to spin as fast as possible. toss alittle higher into the court alittle(i know the tossis supposed to be back ) but when you jump foward to attack the ball on the way up it will be in the proper position. ggo up and HIT IT!!!!!!!!. start by just tryong to see how much spin (kick) you get. placement will come. you are trying to increase spin. also your left arm does not stay up enough so ypu lack a good shoulder angle which inhibits your ability to maximize your racquet drop and therfore ultimate racquet speed

 

[mikeler]

I usually notice two things when I can't get my serve to kick very high. One, I end up tossing the ball too high and then waiting for it to come down before I hit it. For whatever reason, I can get more kick on it when I'm trying to toss the max height of the ball exactly where I'm planning on striking it with the racket. I guess I'm just going up after the ball quicker.

The second thing I usually notice is that I'm just too scared to do the "brush" with all my power for fear of hitting the serve long. The great thing about a kick serve is that you can really swing as hard as you want and it will still go in if hit properly. If you don't hit it hard, the better players will be all over it.

Strings do make a slight difference as do balls, playing surface, weather etc. Some days the conditions just seem to suppress the bounce of the ball more than others.

 

[johnval1362]

my kick serve is one of my best shots, ive actually never played someone whos had one better than me, not to brag, but im saying i know what your doing wrong.

your hitting with your arms instead of your legs. in order to come up on the ball you need to use your legs to push up on it. you need to push UP on that ball, and keep it more in front of you, (the amount you go to the left with your toss is perfect though). And advice saying throw it higher is not right in my opinion, your height seems to be about right. just need to be a little more balance(throwing it a little in front of you may help that/ using your legs more). also keep your eye on it for longer, or else your gonna be framing it and make sure your grip is right.

 

[AlphaCDjkr]

my kick serve is one of my best shots, ive actually never played someone whos had one better than me, not to brag, but im saying i know what your doing wrong.

your hitting with your arms instead of your legs. in order to come up on the ball you need to use your legs to push up on it. you need to push UP on that ball, and keep it more in front of you, (the amount you go to the left with your toss is perfect though). And advice saying throw it higher is not right in my opinion, your height seems to be about right. just need to be a little more balance(throwing it a little in front of you may help that/ using your legs more). also keep your eye on it for longer, or else your gonna be framing it and make sure your grip is right.

Haha, yeah. After reading all the tips to use my legs to push up harder, I've been trying. I do notice the heightened kick, but my balance is just terrible. The problem is that whenever I attempt to throw any further behind me, I lose my balance as I swing, which definitely isn't pleasant.

But it's developing, I can honestly say that. I'll see how much I've progressed in a week or two.

 

[AlphaCDjkr]

Thanks everyone, for all the advice. I really appreciate it all. I've taken most of what everyone says into account, and my kick serve has somewhat improved! (Somewhat.) Unfortunately so far, the only thing hindering my progress is my balance. I have no balance. You've probably noticed my serving stance is a bit funny too.

So right now, I'm working on developing balance. Once I get that down, I'll follow up with my progress.

Once again, THANK YOU everyone!

 

[paulorenzo]

toss a little more inside the court and explode more into the court.
this will add pop to your 2nd serves so your opponent wont eat them up.
it seems you have enough spin and consistency, as you stated, to get the ball well within the service box.

 

[mikeler]

Another thing that helped me was the stance. I used to serve with my right foot directly behind my left foot so my toes lined up when I looked down at both feet. Now, I Have my left foot about 6 inches in front of my right foot. Take a look at Agassi's stance:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...si-Auopen2005.jpg/300px-Agassi-Auopen2005.jpg

 

[40lovebaby]

1. I hate the low amount of kick I get.
2. I hate the low power.

The only thing I can honestly promote this serve for, is it's consistency. But who cares if its consistent, if its consistently set up as the receiver's return winner?

What I'm looking for is:
1. Advice on how to improve serving stance/posture/blah
2. Advice on improving the mechanics of the serve?

Kick Serves

Thank you, everyone!

Although you are hitting through the ball in a 7 to 1 type of motion, your swing is more forward than up. You must pronounce your swing path towards the sky more than you are going forward.

Don't worry about the knee bend for the moment. That is good advice, but you don't have the basic swing path of the serve down yet.

You should be able to hit this serve from your knees (in fact I recommend it) and see the right motion out of it.

You do get a little of the right to left action, but to get more kick/spin, you need to get the swing path down.

It's difficult to tell from the angle, but it could be that you are adressing the ball too far out in front of your body, which requires you to bring your raquet forward instead of up through the ball. If the ball is tossed out in front, you have to angle your body and lean into it so that you can impart the right spin on it.

An eastern backhand grip would help you get more of the feel for the spin, but I recommend the continental and focus on keeping the toss right above your nose to develop the right swing plane.

 

[AlphaCDjkr]

Although you are hitting through the ball in a 7 to 1 type of motion, your swing is more forward than up. You must pronounce your swing path towards the sky more than you are going forward.

Don't worry about the knee bend for the moment. That is good advice, but you don't have the basic swing path of the serve down yet.

You should be able to hit this serve from your knees (in fact I recommend it) and see the right motion out of it.

You do get a little of the right to left action, but to get more kick/spin, you need to get the swing path down.

It's difficult to tell from the angle, but it could be that you are adressing the ball too far out in front of your body, which requires you to bring your raquet forward instead of up through the ball. If the ball is tossed out in front, you have to angle your body and lean into it so that you can impart the right spin on it.

An eastern backhand grip would help you get more of the feel for the spin, but I recommend the continental and focus on keeping the toss right above your nose to develop the right swing plane.

I am using an eastern backhand grip currently. So I should go back to continental, work on the mechanics, and come back? Sounds painful, I kind of forgot how to serve with a continental now.

As for ball toss position, I'm not sure. If I let the ball drop, it'll land about a foot right behind me, neither into/out of the court; parallel to the baseline. Is that alright?

 

[mikeler]

My kick serve toss probably would land a foot or less behind me but 3 to 6 inches inside the baseline.

 

[40lovebaby]

I am using an eastern backhand grip currently. So I should go back to continental, work on the mechanics, and come back? Sounds painful, I kind of forgot how to serve with a continental now.

As for ball toss position, I'm not sure. If I let the ball drop, it'll land about a foot right behind me, neither into/out of the court; parallel to the baseline. Is that alright?

Eastern Backhand is fine - you won't gain anything with continental that you don't have with EB.

I think your ball toss is okay then - when I initially watched your video, it seemed that you were snapping your wrist forward and not up (I still think that), which I think is costing you the spin you're looking for. I thought this was because of where the ball was, but I think it's just a mechanic issue.

It's tough to tell from the video, but it also could be that even though it feels like you are hitting a 7 to 1 swing, you may be addressing the ball too much left to right, so that the ball is slicing more than you want.

You may want to try experimenting with a pure spin serve. Strike the ball 6 to 12, and make sure that your extension is completely to the sky. This won't be the end result, but my feeling is that you can do this and see what your maximum kick will be, and then you can slowly turn the dial of the clock face by incorporating a stroke a little more left to right than 6 to 12.

To me, that's one of the great things about the spin/kick serve - there is a huge range of spin that you can put on this shot without it being uniform among players.

 

[Nellie]

I hit kick serves also exclusively, I have to admit that I have trouble controlling the spin on the kick. The ball will randomly kick left, right, or straight up, even though I feel like I am using the same technique. I am sure that I could see some differences in a video tape, but I kind of like the unpredictable bounce.

 

[AlphaCDjkr]

Eastern Backhand is fine - you won't gain anything with continental that you don't have with EB.

I think your ball toss is okay then - when I initially watched your video, it seemed that you were snapping your wrist forward and not up (I still think that), which I think is costing you the spin you're looking for. I thought this was because of where the ball was, but I think it's just a mechanic issue.

It's tough to tell from the video, but it also could be that even though it feels like you are hitting a 7 to 1 swing, you may be addressing the ball too much left to right, so that the ball is slicing more than you want.

You may want to try experimenting with a pure spin serve. Strike the ball 6 to 12, and make sure that your extension is completely to the sky. This won't be the end result, but my feeling is that you can do this and see what your maximum kick will be, and then you can slowly turn the dial of the clock face by incorporating a stroke a little more left to right than 6 to 12.

To me, that's one of the great things about the spin/kick serve - there is a huge range of spin that you can put on this shot without it being uniform among players.

Yes, I do snap my wrist forward, and yeah it does get rid of a little kick, and it adds a little bit of sidespin and most of the force of the serve. If preferable, I'd like to be able to generate more kick, while keeping this wrist snap. Though, if this wrist snap will actually PREVENT me from ever improve the kick, please tell me, I'll stop immediately.

And yes, the spin direction is 7-1, I find that if I were to do 6-12, it gets a little predictable. I agree with you when you talk about how diverse spin serves are; I love using the same serve motion, but imparting various spins. Keeps the other guy guessing.

I hit kick serves also exclusively, I have to admit that I have trouble controlling the spin on the kick. The ball will randomly kick left, right, or straight up, even though I feel like I am using the same technique. I am sure that I could see some differences in a video tape, but I kind of like the unpredictable bounce.

I love the unpredictable bounce of an unstable kick serve, my friends always say "Dude, your kick serve SUCKS. Its so inconsistent, it's going all over the place!". It's rather funny that they whine on this when they can't get a clean return, which lets me just aggravate them when I laugh and say "Oh well." I'd actually hate having a consistent serve, though I'll probably need it as I get better.