Afraid I'll be DQ'd

[tennis-4-life]

Hi all,

I have been a lurker for a few weeks now, and I'm finally coming forward. You have all been a great source of information!

Anyhow, I am currently a computer rated 3.0 and did not move up in the "Great Bump". I currently play on 6.0, 7.0 and 8.0 mixed teams. I have not lost a match in the 6.0 division (5-0), I am 2-1 in the 7.0 division, and 0-2in the 8.0 division. In the spring, I will be playing on 3.0, 3.5 and 4.0 women's teams.

I just played my first tournament and entered in the 3.5 division. Because no one else signed up for it, I played up in the 4.0 division. There were only 3 of us, so it was round robin. I lost to one woman 4-6, 4-6 and beat the second one 4-6, 6-3, 10-8 in a super tie break. Both of the women have been rated as 4.0's for several years.

The ladies remarked that I should be careful because I might get bumped mid-season, meaning that any matches I would win for my 3.0 team would be forfeited. I would hate for that to happen. I really want my rating to go up as I continue to improve as a player, but don't want my team to pay the price. I am playing in other tournaments at the 3.5 level (one this week but the others aren't until April/May).

Could I be bumped even though I am computer rated? I am probably being a bit premature, but I am newer to USTA and this rating business. Thanks for your help!

 

[goober]

In some sections tournament results do not affect computer ratings. You will have to check on your section

Also they changed the rules last year - Computer and benchmark rated players cannot be DQ'ed.


http://www.usta.com/USTA/Global/Act...sets/2008/08/21/Dynamically Disqualified.ashx

 

[J_R_B]

Correct. You cannot be DQ'd or bumped mid season if you are computer rated, unless there is some violation of the guidelines (like you were an NCAA varsity player and therefore a minimum 4.5 - in that case, you could be DQ'd immediately if reported).

You may be bumped at the end of the year, but if so, well, you're probably not a 3.0 anymore anyway.

 

[goober]

Correct. You cannot be DQ'd or bumped mid season if you are computer rated, unless there is some violation of the guidelines (like you were an NCAA varsity player and therefore a minimum 4.5 - in that case, you could be DQ'd immediately if reported).
.

I am not sure an immediate DQ would occur. First you have to file a grievance. Not all grievances are upheld even if it goes against the experienced player guidelines. If the player in question has a computer or benchmark rating and not a self rating I would say in fact that they probably wouldn't be DQ'ed.

 

[Kostas]

Correct. You cannot be DQ'd or bumped mid season if you are computer rated, unless there is some violation of the guidelines (like you were an NCAA varsity player and therefore a minimum 4.5 - in that case, you could be DQ'd immediately if reported).

You may be bumped at the end of the year, but if so, well, you're probably not a 3.0 anymore anyway.

I don't believe this is entirely correct...

As a computer rated player you can (and most certainly will if you play 4.0 - TWO full levels above your rating!!!) get bumped mid-season - HOWEVER your matches will not be forfeited because you're computer rated.

Playing up one level is dangerous even for computer rated/benchmark players but playing two levels up is suicide.

 

[raiden031]

I don't believe this is entirely correct...

As a computer rated player you can (and most certainly will if you play 4.0 - TWO full levels above your rating!!!) get bumped mid-season - HOWEVER your matches will not be forfeited because you're computer rated.

Playing up one level is dangerous even for computer rated/benchmark players but playing two levels up is suicide.

You are 100% wrong. Computer-rated players are completely immune from being DQ'd because of their results.

 

[beernutz]

You are 100% wrong. Computer-rated players are completely immune from being DQ'd because of their results.

I don't think you two disagree. I believe he/she is saying that you can get bumped but not forfeit matches (DQed) by playing up. I think the danger he/she refers to is the danger of being bumped, not of being DQed.

 

[raiden031]

I don't think you two disagree. I believe he/she is saying that you can get bumped but not forfeit matches (DQed) by playing up. I think the danger he/she refers to is the danger of being bumped, not of being DQed.

He said bumped up mid-season which is exactly what a DQ is. And the USTA states that a computer-rated player cannot be DQ'd. End of thread.

 

[Topaz]

None of you are really paying any attention...the OP is a woman!!!! SHE, not he! (sheesh)

To the OP - why in the world are you playing on a 3.0 team in the first place? You know you aren't playing at that level, so why even put yourself in that possible predicament? If I were you, I would *at least* play 3.5, maybe, based on those singles matches, you should start at 4.0?

And don't worry about your mixed results...they will not count toward your rating if you play women's league...only your women's league matches will count.

I'm also going to check my email...as I recall, I got one stating that computer rated players could not be DQ'd, but not sure if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[Topaz]

From my captain's email after our USTA meeting earlier this month:

1. A player with a valid NTRP Computer (C) rating or Benchmark (B) rating, is not subject to a NTRP grievance (No DQ for Bs and Cs)


Also, totally off topic, but our warm-ups are now only 5 minutes! :shock: Crapola!

 

[beernutz]

He said bumped up mid-season which is exactly what a DQ is. And the USTA states that a computer-rated player cannot be DQ'd. End of thread.

I was not aware that a mid-season bump was always associated with a DQ of previous matches played that season. It was my understanding that there were two ways to get bumped mid-season: by strikes and by the NTRP rating slowly exceeding the next NTRP level. I thought the first way would cause DQ and a bump to a higher level while the second would just result in a bump.

If I was mistaken I apologize.

 

[catfish]

This is on page 3 of the USTA National Regulations. I pasted it below.

On another note, can someone explain why no one ever checks national regs, they ask other people. Isn't clicking in the link to the National Rules a lot faster than asking someone else?

2010 Regulation 3.04A
No dynamic disqualification of Year-end Computer
(C) or Benchmark (B) players

 

[raiden031]

I was not aware that a mid-season bump was always associated with a DQ of previous matches played that season. It was my understanding that there were two ways to get bumped mid-season: by strikes and by the NTRP rating slowly exceeding the next NTRP level. I thought the first way would cause DQ and a bump to a higher level while the second would just result in a bump.

If I was mistaken I apologize.

mid-season bumps (not via grievance) are always caused by the 3-strike rule, which means your dynamic rating exceeds some threshold into the next level up 3 times. In some cases, all of your matches at the lower level are reversed, and in others only the last match is. I don't remember the cases, but it doesn't matter because a computer-rated player is never subject to disqualification no matter what level they play or how good they do.

 

[cak]

Some regions still use ESRs (Early Start Ratings) for seasons that begin before the end of the year ratings. Are these the mid year bumps you are thinking of?

 

[Kostas]

Well it appears I was wrong but I don't think my inital post warranted the hostile tone.

Sorry for any offense. Geeze.

 

[nocab]

mid-season bumps (not via grievance) are always caused by the 3-strike rule, which means your dynamic rating exceeds some threshold into the next level up 3 times. In some cases, all of your matches at the lower level are reversed, and in others only the last match is. I don't remember the cases, but it doesn't matter because a computer-rated player is never subject to disqualification no matter what level they play or how good they do.

Some sections do a mid-season(mid-year) bump. This is not the same as being DQ'd. I'm assuming whatever section you are in doesn't do this because I think you a bit confused with the terminology.

When you get DQ'd it is usually a day or two after your 3rd strike, this is because the computer sends the info to someone at the USTA and they have to go and reverse your previous matches, contact you and your captain, etc...

If you are in a section with a mid-season bump they actually send out a list of bump-ups just like they do at the end of the year. If you are on this list you are still eligible to play your previous level for any leagues you are already participating in. It will only effect new teams and leagues you sign up for after the list is published. In my section(Texas), you can even play tournaments at your old level until the end of the year.

With all that said, if you are computer rated you will not get DQ'd. If your section has a mid season bump you will probably be bumped since your results are good but it won't hurt your current teams.

 

[beernutz]

Some sections do a mid-season(mid-year) bump. This is not the same as being DQ'd. I'm assuming whatever section you are in doesn't do this because I think you a bit confused with the terminology.

When you get DQ'd it is usually a day or two after your 3rd strike, this is because the computer sends the info to someone at the USTA and they have to go and reverse your previous matches, contact you and your captain, etc...

If you are in a section with a mid-season bump they actually send out a list of bump-ups just like they do at the end of the year. If you are on this list you are still eligible to play your previous level for any leagues you are already participating in. It will only effect new teams and leagues you sign up for after the list is published. In my section(Texas), you can even play tournaments at your old level until the end of the year.

With all that said, if you are computer rated you will not get DQ'd. If your section has a mid season bump you will probably be bumped since your results are good but it won't hurt your current teams.

This is what I understood to be the case too. Thanks for at least confirming that at least one other person thought the same thing that I did.

Maybe the confusion stems from this not being done in all sections?

 

[raiden031]

Some sections do a mid-season(mid-year) bump. This is not the same as being DQ'd. I'm assuming whatever section you are in doesn't do this because I think you a bit confused with the terminology.

When you get DQ'd it is usually a day or two after your 3rd strike, this is because the computer sends the info to someone at the USTA and they have to go and reverse your previous matches, contact you and your captain, etc...

If you are in a section with a mid-season bump they actually send out a list of bump-ups just like they do at the end of the year. If you are on this list you are still eligible to play your previous level for any leagues you are already participating in. It will only effect new teams and leagues you sign up for after the list is published. In my section(Texas), you can even play tournaments at your old level until the end of the year.

With all that said, if you are computer rated you will not get DQ'd. If your section has a mid season bump you will probably be bumped since your results are good but it won't hurt your current teams.

I know about ESRs, but mid-season would imply that it happens in the middle of your league season. Since ESRs don't apply until after your league ends, then what I said stands, that you can't be bumped up in the middle of the season.

 

[tennis4josh]

To the OP:
Don't worry about bump up if you are computer rated. However, consider playing at your actual level, 3.5 and 4.0 in your case.

One could get Disqualified in two ways:
1. Someone files a grievance against you and USTA upholds it.
2. You generate 3 strikes in USTA dynamic rating algorithm and the computer automatically bumps you up.

In both the cases all your wins at the lower level are reversed.
But computer rated and benchmark rated players are not subject to disqualification by above means. Typically Self Rated and people who lower their rating by appeal are subject to it.

The early start rating comes out couple of months before the year-end rating. Its mainly used for the combo/mixed/senior leagues which start before the year-end rating. As some one stated earlier, this rating does not affect the leagues you are currently playing in.

The year-end rating is assigned to every player who has played at least a certain minimum number of matches (3 or 4 I believe) during the current year. The year-end rating is used for the next adult league season.

 

[nocab]

I know about ESRs, but mid-season would imply that it happens in the middle of your league season. Since ESRs don't apply until after your league ends, then what I said stands, that you can't be bumped up in the middle of the season.

In our tennis circle we call the ESR the mid-season bump. I guess the confusion here is everyone has different terminology and lives in different parts of the country.

The ESR can happen during a season depending on what season you are playing. Some sections start their leagues later in the year because of weather or just scatter them out. The ESR's come out in July I think and plenty of areas have summer leagues.

If you count sectionals and nationals then some leagues last most of the year.

 

[raiden031]

In our tennis circle we call the ESR the mid-season bump. I guess the confusion here is everyone has different terminology and lives in different parts of the country.

The ESR can happen during a season depending on what season you are playing. Some sections start their leagues later in the year because of weather or just scatter them out. The ESR's come out in July I think and plenty of areas have summer leagues.

If you count sectionals and nationals then some leagues last most of the year.

Fine whatever...But True or False, you must stop playing in a league that you already started because of a mid-season ESR bump? If false, then who cares as the OP was clearly concerned about what happens to the league in which they already began participation.

 

[nocab]

Fine whatever...But True or False, you must stop playing in a league that you already started because of a mid-season ESR bump? If false, then who cares as the OP was clearly concerned about what happens to the league in which they already began participation.

False.

If you are playing in a league during the ESR bump you can continue at your old level. It will only take affect for leagues you sign up for after the bump.

And yes, this topic has gone a bit astray. The OP is computer rated so it doesn't matter, he's in no harm of being DQ'd. I just wanted to clear up any confusion. I think the terminology is what drove this topic off path.

 

[tennis-4-life]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I posted this question here because I emailed my coordinator the same question and had not heard back from him/her for a week. I find the USTA rules and regs a bit cumbersome and the site hard to navigate, but that is a different topic.

The coordinator did get back to me and told me that because I am a computer rated player I CANNOT be DQ'd. I am computer rated at 3.0, although I have worked a lot on my game over the last year and personally do not feel I am at that level anymore. I am playing in three different levels because I love to play and want the challenge.

Thanks everyone for commenting and your assistance!