Agassi Backhand Technique

dirkgnuf

Rookie
Hi,
I'm hoping someone could help me out here, as I'm trying to model my backhand off of Agassi's, but I can't seem to find any info on the internet.
I know he hits with a straight arms, and that he leads with the righthand until his racquet is around his hips and he lets his left hand take over and slightly guide the shot from there.
Can anyone give me a more in-depth analysis?
And maybe a focus on footwork and other stuff as well?
Tricky? Bungalow Bill, Mahboob Khan?
Thanks
 

iradical18

Professional
Check youtube. You should be able to find some video compilations and some slow motion videos to analyze his strokes.
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
Just to simply from that thread . . .

Agassi more or less uses a 1H BH (continental grip) with an extra tophand. As with all 2B BHs, he makes sure his back shoulder doesn't dip below the front as he's driving through the ball. To do that here, make sure to feel for your biceps (or inner part of the arm) with the left arm.
 

Ross K

Legend
Hi tricky,

Could you please clarify your above comment:
make sure to feel for your biceps (or inner part of the arm) with the left arm
. Plus, if you've any other fundamental Agassi 2hbh observations or indeed any general 2hbh tips, maybe dirkgnuf, just like me, would like to hear them.


sharpilistik,

You're spot on - even though my 1her is arguably a little better, I have begun using a 2hbh once again... I tell you, unlike my ex-girlfriend for example, there's just something about it that I can't resist!...:wink: Seriously, as I've heard others say before, it's funny how following some time away and after trying to master another technique, my 2hbh now actually seems a bit improved and there certainly hasn't been a long period of readjustment I was expecting to have to endure.

As for the serve, the Henin motion proved very interesting. I'd really recommend ppl try this exersize of trying to imitate pro player's serves (and other aspects.) Trying to do a Djokovic might be fun (as long as you don't overdo it.) A Safin-like motion would be pretty desirable. There's even some bloke called Federer who I think you can learn a thing or two from about serving...!!... Anyway, despite racquet changes, my serve has now got back on track. I use a motion that's a cross between the Nadal and Roddick motion (more Nadal actually), though sometimes, like ARod, on 1st serves I often find that racquet inverting inwards as I toss the ball, and the ball does seem to go up a tad lower... unfortunately the result though is never like a Roddick serve! :sad:...
 
Hi tricky,

Could you please clarify your above comment: . Plus, if you've any other fundamental Agassi 2hbh observations or indeed any general 2hbh tips, maybe dirkgnuf, just like me, would like to hear them.


sharpilistik,

You're spot on - even though my 1her is arguably a little better, I have begun using a 2hbh once again... I tell you, unlike my ex-girlfriend for example, there's just something about it that I can't resist!...:wink: Seriously, as I've heard others say before, it's funny how following some time away and after trying to master another technique, my 2hbh now actually seems a bit improved and there certainly hasn't been a long period of readjustment I was expecting to have to endure.

As for the serve, the Henin motion proved very interesting. I'd really recommend ppl try this exersize of trying to imitate pro player's serves (and other aspects.) Trying to do a Djokovic might be fun (as long as you don't overdo it.) A Safin-like motion would be pretty desirable. There's even some bloke called Federer who I think you can learn a thing or two from about serving...!!... Anyway, despite racquet changes, my serve has now got back on track. I use a motion that's a cross between the Nadal and Roddick motion (more Nadal actually), though sometimes, like ARod, on 1st serves I often find that racquet inverting inwards as I toss the ball, and the ball does seem to go up a tad lower... unfortunately the result though is never like a Roddick serve! :sad:...

Glad your back to the 2her, now just stick with it.

Once i get my serving issues down, i'll probably start a 2hbh thread.
 

Droofin

New User
He doesn't swing with straight arms; I've read that analysts partially attribute his great power to the fact that his arms are not straight ala Hewett.
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Agassi if you look at that great clip Jeff put up is one of the few players who is straight/straight around the contact. Kafelnikov who also liked to take the ball early was another. This probably indicates more front arm in the balance between the arms. But these guys are the exception.

Most men are either bent/bent, which has the rear hitting arm structure of a forehand, or bent/straight in which the rear arm straigthens out before contact, but the front stays bent. That's Hewitt's variation even though his arms are straight on the backswing.

Almost all of the women are bent/bent.

The bent/straight men all have at least continental to mild eastern grips with the bottom hand. That's the problem Andre noticed with Roddick. He's more like an Eastern forehand with the bottom hand. He might get away with that grip (like Venus) if he had the bent/bent structure. But he can't get the right front arm component with that grip.
 

Ross K

Legend
Sorry to the OP - I don't mean to hijack your thread, but with these noted posters contributing to this, I can't resist throwing out a question...

Jeff, John, tricky, etc,

If you were to give just one or two tips or insights for a successful 2hbh what would they be?

Cheers
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Learn the unit turn. And the timing of the turn-prior to ball bounce. Use a straight backswing or an inclined swing. Do not take the hands up at the start.

Learn the outside foot set up and to hit open stance with good posture. Use this as a set up for netural stance. Limit your use of closed stance, below the 5.0 plus, college level. Determine your natural hitting arm configuration. Make sure your grips are within range for that.

Practice hitting both one-handed backhands and left handed forehands irregardless of specific grip or hitting arms.

Develop a model extension position based on your hitting arms and make sure you get there, pre-wrap. In fact just let the wrap happen.
 

Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
Hi,
I'm hoping someone could help me out here, as I'm trying to model my backhand off of Agassi's, but I can't seem to find any info on the internet.
I know he hits with a straight arms, and that he leads with the righthand until his racquet is around his hips and he lets his left hand take over and slightly guide the shot from there.
Can anyone give me a more in-depth analysis?
And maybe a focus on footwork and other stuff as well?
Tricky? Bungalow Bill, Mahboob Khan?
Thanks

Hi,

Agassi uses a very easy to duplicate takeback where it resembles a onehanded backhand takeback. The lower arm simply makes a very shallow smile pattern (see my past posts on the shallow smile pattern).

When the racquet has reached its height (head of the racquet at shoulder level with hands just at or slightly higher then waist high) Agassi begins to drop the racquet below the contact point while accelerating up and towards the contact zone.

Key areas to watch in Agassi are:

1. He tends to use a onehanded backhand style dominant arm where it is relatively straight throughout the stroke.

2. His hitting arm is bent but when he brings it towards contact, he sort of extends of "pops" his elbow as his hitting arm extends at or near contact providing great pace on the ball. This takes real real good timing. So his hitting arm is somewhat relaxed.

3. His shoulder rotation is very good. He pretty much touches his chin on each shoulder while he rotates through contact.

4. He steps into his backhand and swivels his hips towards contact.

5. Agassi uses his legs to drive the ball as much as he does his upper body.

6. Head is still through contact.

Just some pointers.
 
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Ross K

Legend
John Yandell,

Thanks for above ^ tips.


Bungalo Bill,

Cheers for that great post! Along with what I've learnt from tricky about AA's stroke, this really seems to nail AA's style perfectly. My only query would be I'm not quite sure what you mean with no. 2 (elbow extension just prior to contact), but I'll study his stroke more on film to see if I can get your meaning.
 
Hi,
I'm hoping someone could help me out here, as I'm trying to model my backhand off of Agassi's, but I can't seem to find any info on the internet.
I know he hits with a straight arms, and that he leads with the righthand until his racquet is around his hips and he lets his left hand take over and slightly guide the shot from there.
Can anyone give me a more in-depth analysis?
And maybe a focus on footwork and other stuff as well?
Tricky? Bungalow Bill, Mahboob Khan?
Thanks

theres a couple of ways of doing this go to tennisplayer.net and study his backhand there we use this to teach my son it works.
 
Agassi if you look at that great clip Jeff put up is one of the few players who is straight/straight around the contact. Kafelnikov who also liked to take the ball early was another. This probably indicates more front arm in the balance between the arms. But these guys are the exception.

Most men are either bent/bent, which has the rear hitting arm structure of a forehand, or bent/straight in which the rear arm straigthens out before contact, but the front stays bent. That's Hewitt's variation even though his arms are straight on the backswing.

Almost all of the women are bent/bent.

The bent/straight men all have at least continental to mild eastern grips with the bottom hand. That's the problem Andre noticed with Roddick. He's more like an Eastern forehand with the bottom hand. He might get away with that grip (like Venus) if he had the bent/bent structure. But he can't get the right front arm component with that grip.

thought i knew your name your site is awesome
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
Plus, if you've any other fundamental Agassi 2hbh observations or indeed any general 2hbh tips, maybe dirkgnuf, just like me, would like to hear them.
More esoteric stuff on Agassi-style BHs (specific to Agassi-style BHs.)

1) If you want to avoid Roddick syndrome, make sure that the thumbs of both hands are angled "in" toward the wrist (i.e. crease around the wrist, just like in a 1H BH) during the takeback and when the racquet is going into the ball. Again both hands must be this way.

2) Make sure your right hand leads the takeback.

3) Follow the "U", "J", or smile pattern with your right arm around the elbow.

4) Keep front shoulder below the back shoulder through entire stroke. More to follow on this . . .

Could you please clarify your above comment:
make sure to feel for your biceps (or inner part of the arm) with the left arm
Basically if you want the 2H BH to go "boom!", you want to put your weight into the racquet into the ball. (A lot of people try to find ways to improve their racquet head speed with the 2-hander, but this takes you away from what actually improves pace and depth with this shot.)

The key is to make sure your back shoulder stays above your front shoulder through the whole stroke. Or if you've concentrating on an Agassi-style BH, make sure your front shoulder stays under the back shoulder through the whole stroke. (Same thing but the Agassi-style BH makes you concentrate on the right arm.)

One way to make this easier is to, initially, have your tophand hold the racquet with just the 2nd, 4th and 5th fingers. (Your bottom hand is normal.) You'll feel more of your inner part of the left arm through the whole stroke. This "feel" prevents the back shoulder from dipping a lot as you initiate the forward stroke.

So, in short, concentrate on keeping your front shoulder under your back shoulder. And initially have your left hand hold the racquet with just the 2nd, 4th and 5th fingegrs until you have no problems keeping your front shoulder under your back shoulder.
 
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Bungalo Bill

G.O.A.T.
John Yandell,

Thanks for above ^ tips.


Bungalo Bill,

Cheers for that great post! Along with what I've learnt from tricky about AA's stroke, this really seems to nail AA's style perfectly. My only query would be I'm not quite sure what you mean with no. 2 (elbow extension just prior to contact), but I'll study his stroke more on film to see if I can get your meaning.


That is fine. The elbow extending or "popping" for a more coarse word means the following:

1. With your arm in front of you and your palm face up, keep the elbow area slightly bent.

2. Now, extend your arm out quickly allowing your elbow to sort of snap or pop forward (or up) so the arm straightens.

Agassi does this quite often as he extends through the shot and his previously bent non-dominant arm straigthens quickly at contact.
 

ShcMad

Hall of Fame
According to Darren Cahill, Safin's backhand is also right-hand dominant, like Agassi's is. I wanted to know if there's any truth to this. I'm asking this because I've once heard Paul Annacone that Safin's backhand is left-hand dominant.
 

JCo872

Professional
According to Darren Cahill, Safin's backhand is also right-hand dominant, like Agassi's is. I wanted to know if there's any truth to this. I'm asking this because I've once heard Paul Annacone that Safin's backhand is left-hand dominant.

Darren Cahill also predicted Tsonga to win in 4 sets...
 

Ross K

Legend
According to Darren Cahill, Safin's backhand is also right-hand dominant, like Agassi's is. I wanted to know if there's any truth to this. I'm asking this because I've once heard Paul Annacone that Safin's backhand is left-hand dominant.

I, too, have heard opposing views expressed by apparently quite well renowned ppl in the game and would really appreciate hearing some authorative (ie, correct) info on Safin's technique.
 
The coach Im working with also says to me that Safin's backhand is right hand dominant which is why he is jabbing at his balls at times. He also told me that Agassi has a few short comings in terms that his dtl backhand is better than his crosscourt which may be due to his right hand dominace.

My coach says and I agree with him that Nalbandian has the best backhand to emulate as when I watch I dont see him shanking or mishitting a lot. Very left hand dominant hand shot which he uses to maximum effect to drive the ball through the line. I think anyone who is right hand dominant will tend to feel jabbing and shank the ball at certain times
 

JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
I think the point here is that may be overlooked is that the hitting arm configuration seems to be something that is just natural to various players.

Andre I'm sure didn't set out to hit straight/straight anymore than Nalbandian's goal was to hit bent/bent.

I worked with a player in the top 100 who was obsessed with Agassi. I videoed him dozens of times as he tried to create that straight front arm position. But you know what? He was a natural bent/bent player.
 

Ross K

Legend
star,

How you doing mate with that 2her? And how's your game panned out since the days of 'Calling All Two-Handed Backhanders' (I still recall you had some very good tips)? Anyway, as you may know, I've returned to the fold after a brief and unsatisfactory dip into the world of the 1hbh... it feels good to be back!


John Yandell,

Very good point^ indeed.
 

NamRanger

G.O.A.T.
I think the point here is that may be overlooked is that the hitting arm configuration seems to be something that is just natural to various players.

Andre I'm sure didn't set out to hit straight/straight anymore than Nalbandian's goal was to hit bent/bent.

I worked with a player in the top 100 who was obsessed with Agassi. I videoed him dozens of times as he tried to create that straight front arm position. But you know what? He was a natural bent/bent player.


I thought Nalbandian was a Straight/Bent combination?


Also it is possible Safin has a right hand dominant backhand, it seems to me both of his arms are straight on the backhand, just like Agassi's.
 
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JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
Right he is bent/straight. Thanks! Djokovic is bent/bent. The same point applies in all these cases.

Safin is interesting. Sometimes he is almost straight/straight. Sometimes he is more like flex/flex (interestingly the other player like that is another Russian Dementieva). I've also seen him in Bent/Bent on some balls. Kinda goes with his personality.

On the dominant non-dominant thing. Hit one handed backhands and left handed forehands. Which is stronger and more natural? The point is that both arms play into all the configurations-that's why it's called a two-hander right?

You can tweak things grip wise and arm position wise but I still find that almost all players will naturally gravitate to one combo--so work with it. Ride the tiger the way it is running.
 

Ross K

Legend
On the dominant non-dominant thing. Hit one handed backhands and left handed forehands. Which is stronger and more natural?... Ride the tiger the way it is running.

Sounds like a great tip... and as I'm definitely more a 1hbh than a lefty fh, maybe I should just focus on this (with the 2 hands of course) solely?
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
Safin is interesting. Sometimes he is almost straight/straight. Sometimes he is more like flex/flex (interestingly the other player like that is another Russian Dementieva). I've also seen him in Bent/Bent on some balls. Kinda goes with his personality.

The Jack Sparrow of tennis's definitely a genius. Or lazy. If only I could hit a BH like a pirate . . .

My current thought on Safin is that his stroke may be among the most left-hand dominant, moreso than Nalbandian. His left arm stays longer in the contact zone than his peers as well, and that is partially why his shots look "jab-like." In a way, they're like a classical left hand FH with an extra hand attached. I don't think there's any other player that keeps his back shoulder above his front as long as Safin.

and as I'm definitely more a 1hbh than a lefty fh, maybe I should just focus on this (with the 2 hands of course) solely?

If you want to go for that, first make sure that you mantain a crease with both wrists when you hold the racquet during the takeback and when you're hitting through the ball.
 

ShcMad

Hall of Fame
John Yandell,

I've seen an article by you mentioning that Safin lacked 'backwards rotation of the forearm' during the backhand swing, which is a critical component in many two handers. I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me visualize what you mean by 'backwards rotation of the arm.' Thanks.
 
star,

How you doing mate with that 2her? And how's your game panned out since the days of 'Calling All Two-Handed Backhanders' (I still recall you had some very good tips)? Anyway, as you may know, I've returned to the fold after a brief and unsatisfactory dip into the world of the 1hbh... it feels good to be back!

Hey Ross,
my games getting better in terms of serving and groundstroke wise,
hitting cleaner on both forehand and backhand, Im locking the butt cap better on the forehand, hitting more flatter and not so much spinny. My backhand Ive been driving a lot more with my left and working on the backswing to get a nice figure 8 to allow me to extend into the shot better, working on racket drop below ball to give topspin to dip ball in more, my shots are flat on some balls.
My serve is getting better in terms I can serve the ball flatter and more pace from good technique. My toss is more consistent, worse toss I could have is 11.30 while my good one would be around 12-12.30. Ive been taught to keep the racket arm loose like an elephants trunk. Im learning on the backswing to keep the momentum going and not have it long like some of the girls and Joker
 

Ross K

Legend
Hey Ross,
my games getting better in terms of serving and groundstroke wise,
hitting cleaner on both forehand and backhand, Im locking the butt cap better on the forehand, hitting more flatter and not so much spinny. My backhand Ive been driving a lot more with my left and working on the backswing to get a nice figure 8 to allow me to extend into the shot better, working on racket drop below ball to give topspin to dip ball in more, my shots are flat on some balls.
My serve is getting better in terms I can serve the ball flatter and more pace from good technique. My toss is more consistent, worse toss I could have is 11.30 while my good one would be around 12-12.30. Ive been taught to keep the racket arm loose like an elephants trunk. Im learning on the backswing to keep the momentum going and not have it long like some of the girls and Joker

Star,

Just like in the past, you've made a post that makes me want to ask a few follow up Q's...

* Locking the butt cap on fh?... What do you mean by that exactly?

* You speak of the fig. 8 takeback pattern (which I used to practise too) and hitting with the left arm - but do you have the racquet raised to approx shoulder height (like Andre) or are you coming at the ball from straight back and down (ala Williams sisters)?

* I'm trying to visualise your serve - is it abbreviated like ARod? Or what/who?

Anyway. Sounds like your game has progressed nicely.

BTW, I'd revive the old "Calling All Two-Handed Backhanders" thread, only I think it's kind of covered now what with these other 2hbh threads? Plus, as this post shows, I wouldn't just want to explore just the 2 her only... hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... now what kind of thread might work?!...
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
The problem with my two-hander is that I slap at the ball too much. If you can visualize it, what I mean is that the stringbed almost faces the ground/sky right after contact with the ball (making the racquet edge almost parallel to the ground). When I see Safin or Agassi, the stringbed faces the sidefence right after contact. What can I do to fix this?
The trick is to keep the left/back shoulder above the right/front shoulder in the takeback and as you drive through the ball. This is what gives the 2H BH its "boom" or driving effect. If you observe the shoulders prior to contact of pro 2H BHs; they maintain this even with high balls through taking their left foot off the ground (i.e. Safin's "scissor BH.")

The more left hand dominant your stroke is, the higher the back shoulder tends to be relative to the front through POC. So they go together. It looks a bit like the person punches through rather than swings at the ball.

Some esoteric notes on, erm, "Safinating" a BH . . .

Basic grip stuff

1) Because this 2H BH is primarily an "assisted" left FH, you want to decide your grip for your left/top hand first.

2) Both hands need to hold the racquet with the thumbs (i.e. no crease) almost parallel with the forearms. This connects the kinetic chain of the body to your left arm.

3) As a result, when selecting the grip for your bottom hand, you want to find a bottom hand grip so that both thumbs can be comfortably parallel with their respected forearms. I think the readings suggest pairing Eastern FH grip with a "between Eastern and continental BH grip", or a SW FH grip with an Eastern BH grip. But, in any case, the thumbs will tell you what works for you.


Left hand dominance
1) To set up very strong left hand dominance, try this during shadow swinging. Have both hands gripping the racquet with just the 2nd, 4th, and 5th fingers. This throws dominance heavily to the "hand powered by kinetic chain", which here is the left hand. Your right arm will kinda "disappear" in the stroke. Once you get this committed into muscle memory, then when actually hitting balls, you can mantain the 2-4-5 (or a 2-5) with your right hand while using all fingers for your left hand. When you feel your left hand is comfortably dominant, then you can use full grip for both hands.


Eastern FH
1) Safin's unique among the left hand dominants, in that he uses a "classical" Eastern FH. Meaning, he actually traces a shallow smile pattern (or "U") with his left elbow. So, initially, you want to practice with just the left arm.

2) You take back the racquet by letting the left elbow swing upwards and counterclockwise to about nipple level. Like a pendulum. At the same time, you try to preserve the angle of the elbow bend. It looks like you trace the left half of a shallow U or "reverse J" with your elbow.

3) When you want to initiate the forward swing, you just let the elbow drop or slide back down, launching your arm forward. So the motion is actually like a shallow pendulum, but it looks like a mostly straight swing.

4) When you're ready to attach the other hand, the right hand is completely passive here. It isn't part of the pendulum/smile pattern; it's just there. Therefore, you would concentrate on taking the racquet back with merely the left arm and letting that initiate.

5) Probably should noted: His "Eastern FH" is really special. Yes, most players have a pendulum motion, but they use both hands to pull the racquet back. Their racquets swing much more around the body than Safin, whose forward swing moves almost in a straight line toward the ball. Agassi has a similar effect, but he of course does it with a 1H BH/right hand dominant setup. This also helps to explain why his forearms rotate less than others through the forward stroke.


Back/left shoulder above front shoulder
1) Atunit turn, make sure the front/right shoulder is slightly dipped. Looking down at the ball helps with that.

2) Just make sure the back/left shoulder is above the front/right shoulder through the takeback and whole stroke.

3) If you got the left handed dominance down, then this is pretty easy to do. If you don't, then it's hard. So, working out the left dominant dance and Eastern FH swing first helps.
 

ShcMad

Hall of Fame
The trick is to keep the left/back shoulder above the right/front shoulder in the takeback and as you drive through the ball. This is what gives the 2H BH its "boom" or driving effect. If you observe the shoulders prior to contact of pro 2H BHs; they maintain this even with high balls through taking their left foot off the ground (i.e. Safin's "scissor BH.")

The more left hand dominant your stroke is, the higher the back shoulder tends to be relative to the front through POC. So they go together. It looks a bit like the person punches through rather than swings at the ball.

Some esoteric notes on, erm, "Safinating" a BH . . .

Thanks a lot, Tricky! :) Those are some outstanding 'notes'.

But, I'm wondering...how in the world were you able to quote my post from yesterday? I had made that post at 8PM last night, but I deleted it by 1AM because I thought it was a stupid question. I'm puzzled!

Anywho, I very much appreciate for those great tips you gave me.
 

Ross K

Legend
John Yandell, tricky, star, everyone,

Some of this recent discussion on left handed fh versus 1h bh techniques gives rise to this query: how do these different techniques effect stances and foot position?... I mean, does one suit closed stance better? Does the other really go well with an open stance? Etc...


star,

What grip combo you using now? Why? (What's it give you?)
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
Some of this recent discussion on left handed fh versus 1h bh techniques gives rise to this query: how do these different techniques effect stances and foot position?... I mean, does one suit closed stance better? Does the other really go well with an open stance? Etc...

A 2H BH configured with a left handed FH is more open than with the 1H BH, but it of course varies with grip. Agassi uses a continental BH grip as driver; if you use a Eastern 1H BH, your stance opens up a little.

Safin may not be the greatest reference point for this. The more open his stance, the more jab-like his BH becomes. That's more unique with his 2H BH than others.
 
Star,

Just like in the past, you've made a post that makes me want to ask a few follow up Q's...

* Locking the butt cap on fh?... What do you mean by that exactly?

* You speak of the fig. 8 takeback pattern (which I used to practise too) and hitting with the left arm - but do you have the racquet raised to approx shoulder height (like Andre) or are you coming at the ball from straight back and down (ala Williams sisters)?

* I'm trying to visualise your serve - is it abbreviated like ARod? Or what/who?

Anyway. Sounds like your game has progressed nicely.

BTW, I'd revive the old "Calling All Two-Handed Backhanders" thread, only I think it's kind of covered now what with these other 2hbh threads? Plus, as this post shows, I wouldn't just want to explore just the 2 her only... hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... now what kind of thread might work?!...

Hey Ross,
I'll try to answer your question on locking the buttcap on the fh, but it also applies to bh as well, its when you drop your racket head and initiating the foward swing where you want to show your buttcap of the racket pointing at the ball, the longer you can show your buttcap the more drive you can get on the ball, resulting better penetration, if you look at players like federer or gonzalez in slowmo or something you'll see their buttcaps showing for a good amount of time on their swinging into the ball.

My figure 8 takeback is in resemblance to the guys backhands, not the girls, not boxed in on contact when Im hitting the shot right. My grip setup is continental(r)/eastern fh(l). Im obviously a natural righty but using mostly left hand on the shot. This grip requires me to prepare the shot early than what the girls be hitting but arms not completely extended like Agassi.

Toughest question to answer is my serve, I dont have Arods motion, probably more classical elements like a Miryni or Kracijek or something, but Im still working on it. My motion is not Arod abreviated.

Just keeping asking me qs?
 

Ross K

Legend
tricky, star, everyone,

tricky, I've always used a continental r. hand for my 2hbh, but my technique is more of a 1hbh than a lefty fh... not sure if this is correct form then...?

Star - Oh! That's what you meant by locking butt cap!... This was actually addressed on 'Calling All 2handed Backhanders' - I remember it well. I actually stopped doing that on both fh and bh, and 1 reason was I heard from quite a few ppl that if you used certain grips it made the technique unnecessary (ie, if you use a SW grip on fh that provides the required 'action' on the ball that a 'locking' style would provide.) Anyway, I may try this again though and specifically if it impacts on my ability to drive through the ball... Since returning to the 2hbh recently I've noticed I'm hitting a bit short and I'm not quite sure why. For certain, I think I'll try the fig. 8 takeback as star is doing.
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
tricky, I've always used a continental r. hand for my 2hbh, but my technique is more of a 1hbh than a lefty fh... not sure if this is correct form then...?

Yeah, that's fine. Bottom hand, continental BH grip, top hand probably somewhere between Eastern and continental FH grip.

Do you see a crease along both wrists in your takeback and when you drive through ball?
 

Ross K

Legend
tricky,

(Presuming I'm getting your meaning right) I don't think I see a crease... no, not that central crease at the top of the wrist that is quite unmistakable when you you push your hand back... uh-uh, I'm not laying my wrists back that far.

Er... is this good or bad??!!
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
Okay, so just making sure, when you take back your racquet, there isn't a bend made between the thumbs and wrist, as it would were you executing a true 1H BH? Not even with the right hand? It needs to be there with both hands when you hold the racquet, if you're going to use an Agassi-style BH (i.e. "assisted" 1HBH?)
 
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Okay, so just making sure, when you take back your racquet, there isn't a bend made between the thumbs and wrist, as it would were you executing a true 1H BH? Not even with the right hand? It needs to be there with both hands when you hold the racquet, if you're going to use an Agassi-style BH (i.e. "assisted" 1HBH?)

how strange would it be to crease in both wrists back to hit a 2hbh?? wow.

heres a supplementary question: in the 2hbh after the height of takeback in say a safin bh, would you think about letting the racket/elbow/arm drop below the ball with gravity or would you make this happen on purpose? or would you not even do this?

still having trouble getting rear arm to straighten out. back shoulder over front doesnt really help much.
 
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JohnYandell

Hall of Fame
The backward hand and arm rotation is the start of the 2H windshield wiper. It's less evident in Safin, but it's not some flaw in Safin's stroke--he chooses not to do it-or rather he chooses to hit the ball quite flat. But you see some of it some of the time.

This is a variable that all the players use more or less depending on circumstance.

If you've read the article on Tennisplayer it goes into great detail about this and provides much better imagery than I could possibly verbally describe.
 

tricky

Hall of Fame
how strange would it be to crease in both wrists back to hit a 2hbh?? wow.

Yeah, but it's there in the Agassi BH. It's necessary in order to connect the kinetic chain to the right hand, so that you have an "assisted 1H BH." What happens with some players like Roddick is that they're good about keeping it bent in the takeback, but then they have it "straight" through the entire forward swing. In other words, during the takeback, it's an assisted 1H BH. Then during the forward swing, it's an assisted lefty FH. This leads to people arming the forward swing, since the loading gets all screwed up. Nadal has this too, but he does something really unique when he initiates his forward swing, which probably favors that he's a natural rightie.

I'm talking my own biases here, but it's just SO much easier to execute a lefty FH-style BH for the above reason. If I want to show somebody an Agassi-style BH, I usually have to fumble around the bottom hand grip in order to get my thumb-wrists bent or "creased" through most of the forward stroke.

back shoulder over front doesnt really help much.

Yeah, that improves power but it doesn't solve your bent arm problem. You want to be able to get that straight-arm on contact with a lefty FH before attaching the right arm.

heres a supplementary question: in the 2hbh after the height of takeback in say a safin bh, would you think about letting the racket/elbow/arm drop below the ball with gravity or would you make this happen on purpose? or would you not even do this?

With gravity if you can. When the forward swing is initiated, the elbow must start to drop or "scoop." It's a pendulum motion, not that different from the pendulum motion of a 1H BH. Otherwise, you'll be dragging the swing, which with this takeback (I think) leads to sometimes "flexed" and sometimes bent/bent arms at POC. This happens to Safin sometimes when he gets bad or very high bounce.

If you're having problems visualizing this, try practicing an old-school close stanced FH with your right hand. It's more or less what you should be looking for with the lefty.
 
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