Agassi is better than Nadal at the USO

Which of the two ought to be considered greater at the USO?

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AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

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Andre: 2 wins, 4 losses to PETE, 2 to Lendl, 2 to Fred, 1 to Courier, Chang, Ferrero

Doll: 2 wins, 2 vultured wins, 2 bad losses to Delpo/extremely injured, 1 loss to Djovak, Murray

AA had much tuffer cumpetishon that didn't allow him to vulture undeservedly but sternly kept him from winning 5 titles of his own despite contending consistently for 18 years, whereas Doll had a laughably small prime window at the USO in comparison (2008-13 if not just 2010-13) but was able to disgraceful boost his numbers thanks to the woat era that followed, where two barely decent showings in a decade became two extra titles absent proper opponents. Ergo, any objective & discerning tennis observer must acknowledge Agassi's significant superiority and lament the deplorable mugzeit allowing Nadal to amass fake greatness, amirite or amirite.
 
Biotic said:
Vulturdal the Deplorable
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200w.gif
 
Amazing thread.

the truth is Nadal has exactly 5 even semi-decent runs at the USO - 2010, 2011, 2013, 2017, 2019. He managed to convert 4 of those (two with the help of some … “challenging” draws) but the truth is he’s either been hurt, skipping, or sucked donkey balls at pretty much every other USO.

Andre of course is no paragon of consistency either, going down meekly to Pete in 90/95, and not having particularly difficult wins either - Chang/Stich in 94, Kaf/Martin in 99. He did produce on aggregate a higher level, stopped by Pete and Fed SIX times while playing well… plus, much greater longevity given that he was elite at a young age (watch the 88 Lendl Agassi match then remember at the same age Nadal was getting ROFLMAO’d by Youzhny)…

However it’s not enough to bridge the 4 v 2 title gap.

let’s call it a draw.
 
Kralingen said:
Amazing thread.

the truth is Nadal has exactly 5 even semi-decent runs at the USO - 2010, 2011, 2013, 2017, 2019. He managed to convert 4 of those (two with the help of some … “challenging” draws) but the truth is he’s either been hurt, skipping, or sucked donkey balls at pretty much every other USO.

Andre of course is no paragon of consistency either, going down meekly to Pete in 90/95, and not having particularly difficult wins either - Chang/Stich in 94, Kaf/Martin in 99. He did produce on aggregate a higher level, stopped by Pete and Fed SIX times while playing well… plus, much greater longevity given that he was elite at a young age (watch the 88 Lendl Agassi match then remember at the same age Nadal was getting ROFLMAO’d by Youzhny)…

However it’s not enough to bridge the 4 v 2 title gap.

let’s call it a draw.
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So Agassi had the toughest competition at the USO ? Maybe except Ivan Lendl :D
 
ForehandRF said:
So Agassi had the toughest competition at the USO ? Maybe except Ivan Lendl :D
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It’s easily Agassi, like it’s legitimately not even close lol. OK Connors is close. But he doesn’t count, because Andre beat him twice at the USO.

it’s perhaps the biggest gap of any competition set at any Slam in the Open Era. Don’t give me that Djokovic or Lendl BS.
 
Kralingen said:
It’s easily Agassi, like it’s legitimately not even close lol

it’s perhaps the biggest gap of any competition set at any Slam in the Open Era. Don’t give me that Djokovic or Lendl BS.
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I don't think that in Lendl's case is BS.You can argue for Agassi having the toughest competition at the USO, but to say it's not even close it's stretching it :D
 
ForehandRF said:
I don't think Lendl is BS.You can argue for Agassi having the toughest competition at the USO, but to say it's not even close is stretching it :D
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Well, most top level elite competitors faced.

(in all seriousness it’s probably Connors, Lendl, Agassi, then Djokovic then Fraud in toughest tier, depending on what criterion you use)
 
NatF said:
Well Agassi obviously had much tougher competition there across his career which prevented him from achieving what Nadal has done there (despite several more deep runs). Peak level is probably pretty close as well. Seems like AA is the only acceptable answer :unsure:
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2004 Agassi beating any Nadal not even a ridiculous take.
 
Yea Andre is a better hardcourt player than Nadal overrall without question. Andre would a buttload of HC slams and overrall titles in this era. Being that is slower and just baseline ball bashing helps him out even more than it did in the 90's/early 2000s
 
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Kralingen said:
Amazing thread.

the truth is Nadal has exactly 5 even semi-decent runs at the USO - 2010, 2011, 2013, 2017, 2019. He managed to convert 4 of those (two with the help of some … “challenging” draws) but the truth is he’s either been hurt, skipping, or sucked donkey balls at pretty much every other USO.

Andre of course is no paragon of consistency either, going down meekly to Pete in 90/95, and not having particularly difficult wins either - Chang/Stich in 94, Kaf/Martin in 99. He did produce on aggregate a higher level, stopped by Pete and Fed SIX times while playing well… plus, much greater longevity given that he was elite at a young age (watch the 88 Lendl Agassi match then remember at the same age Nadal was getting ROFLMAO’d by Youzhny)…

However it’s not enough to bridge the 4 v 2 title gap.

let’s call it a draw.
Click to expand...
17 and 19 are not even decent runs compared to 94, 95, 99, 01, 02, 04. 05 Agassi has a good to great shot of beating both providing he's relatively fresh. And if we are including 17 and 19 we probably have to include 88/89 and even 90 despite the massive fail in the final.

As with all surfaces off clay, the toughest versions of Nadal (09 AO, 07/08/10 Wimby, 10 USO) are tough to beat, but it's only 5 runs total between 3 majors.
 
metsman said:
17 and 19 are not even decent runs compared to 94, 95, 99, 01, 02, 04. 05 Agassi has a good to great shot of beating both providing he's relatively fresh. And if we are including 17 and 19 we probably have to include 88/89 and even 90 despite the massive fail in the final.

As with all surfaces off clay, the toughest versions of Nadal (09 AO, 07/08/10 Wimby, 10 USO) are tough to beat, but it's only 5 runs total between 3 majors.
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AO 12 Nadal and USO 13 Nadal patty cake?
 
RS said:
AO 12 Nadal and USO 13 Nadal patty cake?
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For peak opponent yes. Granted there is not really a peaking Agassi at the USO as his physical peak was 94-95 but he probably played closest to top level in 01, so 13 Nadal would have a shot vs any of them. 12 AO is not beating 95 Agassi and probably not 00/01 either.
 
RS said:
USO 2004 Agassi is similar to the likes of 2001 Hewitt and 2003 Roddick at the USO lol.

All of them could get like 4/5-20 vs USO 10 Nadal if they counted lucky stars.
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Nadal beat no one anywhere near that caliber at the USO (and never has). I favor 10 Nadal against all 3 but that's ridiculously overconfident lol.

Then again if we believe 10 Nadal is clear favorite against 06 Fed we can see where all this comes from.
 
metsman said:
For peak opponent yes. Granted there is not really a peaking Agassi at the USO as his physical peak was 94-95 but he probably played closest to top level in 01, so 13 Nadal would have a shot vs any of them. 12 AO is not beating 95 Agassi and probably not 00/01 either.
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Interesting take. now obviously the difference between 12 and 09dal physically is stark, but why such a big difference between 13 and 10 Nadal?

There was the movement, serve, and the aggression difference in 2010 which makes him slightly better but 13 Nadal was pretty strong all told and had the slice to neutralize as well. He also looked to go DTL and while he had the ropey period from mid 2nd to mid 3rd where he went into a shell, he finished the match quite strong. I would think there's a bigger difference between 09/12 AOdal than 10/13 USO.
 
Kralingen said:
Interesting take. now obviously the difference between 12 and 09dal physically is stark, but why such a big difference between 13 and 10 Nadal?

There was the movement, serve, and the aggression difference in 2010 which makes him slightly better but 13 Nadal was pretty strong all told and had the slice to neutralize as well. He also looked to go DTL and while he had the ropey period from mid 2nd to mid 3rd where he went into a shell, he finished the match quite strong. I would think there's a bigger difference between 09/12 AOdal than 10/13 USO.
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i mean both are basically comparing similar versions of Nadal.

2010 Nadal was better to significantly better at everything than 2013 USO Nadal. 2012 AO at least you can argue served a little better than 09 but 09 was still plenty effective on serve.
 
metsman said:
17 and 19 are not even decent runs compared to 94, 95, 99, 01, 02, 04. 05 Agassi has a good to great shot of beating both providing he's relatively fresh. And if we are including 17 and 19 we probably have to include 88/89 and even 90 despite the massive fail in the final.

As with all surfaces off clay, the toughest versions of Nadal (09 AO, 07/08/10 Wimby, 10 USO) are tough to beat, but it's only 5 runs total between 3 majors.
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What?
Did you basically just said “if we’re including titles to Nadal’s titles, we should also add losses do Agassi’s titles in comparison.”?
 
metsman said:
Nadal beat no one anywhere near that caliber at the USO (and never has). I favor 10 Nadal against all 3 but that's ridiculously overconfident lol.

Then again if we believe 10 Nadal is clear favorite against 06 Fed we can see where all this comes from.
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I believe 10 Nadal did beat Nole, who’s comfortably above such caliber.
 
Well, if we would separate “better” in three factors:
1. Success
2. Overall results
3. Peak level
I’d give the edge to Nadal 2-1 against Andre. Nadal has obviously more success in 4-2, whilst Andre has more deep runs, but I believe despite one could argue that Andre’s good runs even out the two title gap, the peak level Nadal has shown at the USO gives the edge to the Spaniard.
Not to mention Nadal actually beat his nemesis there twice versus complete nemesis dominance against Andre.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Andre: 2 wins, 4 losses to PETE, 2 to Lendl, 2 to Fred, 1 to Courier, Chang, Ferrero

Doll: 2 wins, 2 vultured wins, 2 bad losses to Delpo/extremely injured, 1 loss to Djovak, Murray

AA had much tuffer cumpetishon that didn't allow him to vulture undeservedly but sternly kept him from winning 5 titles of his own despite contending consistently for 18 years, whereas Doll had a laughably small prime window at the USO in comparison (2008-13 if not just 2010-13) but was able to disgraceful boost his numbers thanks to the woat era that followed, where two barely decent showings in a decade became two extra titles absent proper opponents. Ergo, any objective & discerning tennis observer must acknowledge Agassi's significant superiority and lament the deplorable mugzeit allowing Nadal to amass fake greatness, amirite or amirite.
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Well, one could argue that Andre’s titles were also vultures. Maybe not that better than 19.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Andre: 2 wins, 4 losses to PETE, 2 to Lendl, 2 to Fred, 1 to Courier, Chang, Ferrero

Doll: 2 wins, 2 vultured wins, 2 bad losses to Delpo/extremely injured, 1 loss to Djovak, Murray

AA had much tuffer cumpetishon that didn't allow him to vulture undeservedly but sternly kept him from winning 5 titles of his own despite contending consistently for 18 years, whereas Doll had a laughably small prime window at the USO in comparison (2008-13 if not just 2010-13) but was able to disgraceful boost his numbers thanks to the woat era that followed, where two barely decent showings in a decade became two extra titles absent proper opponents. Ergo, any objective & discerning tennis observer must acknowledge Agassi's significant superiority and lament the deplorable mugzeit allowing Nadal to amass fake greatness, amirite or amirite.
Click to expand...
Your wording is off my friend. It followed the WOAT era - the era of Srichaphan.
 
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