Agassi questions Fed GOATness

S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
He was in the booth for the Roddick match and said two things:

1. If Nadal wins the USO, it will throw the GOAT discussion wide open again. The reasons he gave were Nadal would have career slam, an Olympic simgles gold which Fed does not have (and Agassi has, which is significant), and the lopsided head to head of 13-7 and counting.

2. He said very softly towards the end that Murray would win the USO.

The first sentiment is being echoed by several commentators. If Nadal wins this one, claims of Fed GOATness fade away. I believe it was Cahill who said that Fed needs to beat Nadal in a Slam final to settle this. Losing repatedly in the FO final was OK as Nadal was a "clay court specialist" but then losing in both W and AO finals to him showed a troubling pattern of inferiority.

Looking at how Fed played against Devin yesterday, I don't think he has a chance against Murray, let alone Nadal.
 
I dont know when the GOAT discussion was ever closed.
That said it wont make a difference in where Nadal stands today.Afterall, Agassi did all that Nadal could accomplish and still failed to make it to the discussion.
These players are also being kind of funny because I've just been reading articles where Agassi hails Roger as the GOAT :lol:
Truth-There isnt a GOAT.
 
you gotta give it to agassi, he wasnt a great fighter but he is such a great commentator!!!

as for federer, i say it again: he is the MOAT, Most Overrated player of All Time. i will start a brilliant thread to elaborate later.
 
But based on Agassi's comments, who would he have considered the GOAT prior to Federer? He can't answer with Sampras because Sampras doesn't have Olympic gold or a Roland Garros title for a Career Slam. It sounds like Agassi's playing a little bit of politics. Stirring the pot.

I didn't personally hear Agassi's comments so I'm just commenting on the OP's post.
 
Mungo73 said:
as for federer, i say it again: he is the MOAT, Most Overrated player of All Time. i will start a brilliant thread to elaborate later.
Click to expand...

nahhhh.. dont bother... :) we believe you!



mungos_mungo_db8575.jpg
 
sureshs said:
He was in the booth for the Roddick match and said two things:

1. If Nadal wins the USO, it will throw the GOAT discussion wide open again. The reasons he gave were Nadal would have career slam, an Olympic singles gold which Fed does not have (and Agassi has, which is significant), and the lopsided head to head of 13-7 and counting.

2. He said very softly towards the end that Murray would win the USO.

The first sentiment is being echoed by several commentators. If Nadal wins this one, claims of Fed GOATness fade away. I believe it was Cahill who said that Fed needs to beat Nadal in a Slam final to settle this. Losing repatedly in the FO final was OK as Nadal was a "clay court specialist" but then losing in both W and AO finals to him showed a troubling pattern of inferiority.

Looking at how Fed played against Devin yesterday, I don't think he has a chance against Murray, let alone Nadal.
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I guess following that logic, Agassi is a greater player than Sampras.
 
This question gets asked endlessly here and all places tennis.

Everyone has their opinion on who the GOAT is. And there are multiple camps supporting different players from current and eras past.

Most are adamant about the one they support and you cannot convince them otherwise.

So, does it matter? I guess only to those diehards who want to pursuade others to join their campaign.

Personally, I don't really care. :)

r,
eagle
 
hankash said:
I guess following that logic, Agassi is a greater player than Sampras.
Click to expand...

Lol...good catch. Agassi is just caught up in his own achievements. I love it when he's in the booth though, he makes a lot of actually insightful remarks, unlike 99% of the other commentators.
 
Mungo73 said:
you gotta give it to agassi, he wasnt a great fighter but he is such a great commentator!!!

as for federer, i say it again: he is the MOAT, Most Overrated player of All Time. i will start a brilliant thread to elaborate later.
Click to expand...

Please do,we're all here eagerly awating the next of your famous threads given that you're such a fountain of tennis knowledge.
 
Troubling inferiority to who? Nadal? Ok I give you that, Nadal is a bad match up for Federer. So if they say Roger is not the GOAT if Nadal beats him in the US Open, who is? Nadal? The pro that can barely sustain the number one ranking for less than a year? One cannot question Rafa's achievements and he did an awesome job of challenging Federer. What he has failed to do is realizing that there are other competitors to deal with and that his body has limits.
Aside from the GOAT discussion being subjective, people that have less accomplishments than Federer stand in the danger of being bitter once they start questioning it. We get caught in the moment but what ultimately matter is how you look at the big picture.
Federer is starting on his twilight and he might retire with an unfavorable record against Murray and Nadal. At his age now, he is still fighting out there while the younger guns break down on the side every once in a while. I don't see Murray or Nadal lasting in the tour like Roger did. Federer has set the bar high that every once in a while somebody who can take a nick at that level gets lauded for the moment. When all is said and done, I suspect the names Murray, Agassi, Nadal would not be in the mix for GOAT. Unless they can show that they are more than a nick at the top. I bet you every one of these candidates for GOAT would love to have Federer's over all record.
 
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Mungo73 said:
you gotta give it to agassi, he wasnt a great fighter but he is such a great commentator!!!

as for federer, i say it again: he is the MOAT, Most Overrated player of All Time. i will start a brilliant thread to elaborate later.
Click to expand...

You can start a thread if you want, but it will be far from brilliant. It's clear that you're such a fanatic that you have no objective views on tennis.
 
The OP is taking Agassi's comments out of context, and is "lying by ommission".

Agassi made it clear he believes Fed is the greatest player of all time. he later added, a "what if" argument to the Mcenroes,,,, he said (I'm paraphrasing), "What if Nadal were to win this years US Open, and how would that effect this argument? Nadal would have won on all 4 surfaces, have the gold and davis cup (two things fed has yet to accomplish), and have the overall better head-to-head."

He never stated this would make Nadal the GOAT, or not make Fed the GOAT. he was throwing out a hypothetical to "stir the pot".
 
Add Agassi's, Nadal's and Murray's GS titles together and it still would not equal Roger's GS achievement. How's that?
 
We're assuming a few things in this thread...

1) Nadal will actually make it to the final, which he's never done. This isn't the AO, folks. It's a quick, low bouncing surface that is taxing on the knees. IF Nadal can actually make a final (which is what Fed fans have been hoping for since 2006), then we'll see how he plays.

2) That Federer will just crumble against Nadal like he did in Australia, not taking into account the pressure of the slam record being lifted, the surface favoring Federer and the fact that Federer beat Nadal in their last meeting, on clay and in straight sets. I don't care if Nadal was in a wheelchair for that match. Beating him convincingly in Spain, on clay is a big deal and a big confidence boost.

3) That Federer will hold the form that he showed against Devin Britton. Yes, I'm sure that he treats every opponent the same, whether they are a 6 time slam winner or the #1327 ranked player who was playing their second career ATP match.

4) Mungo, you're a moron. Federer was won his last meetings with Nadal, Murray and Djokovic, on their favorite surfaces respectively, and won them all in straight sets. Also, 3 of Federer's last 5 slam wins have come over Nadal, Djokovic and Murray in the finals (Wimby 07, US Open 07, US Open 08 ), with the 08 Open coming over Djokovic and Murray back to back. It's pretty clear that Federer isn't the MOAT, and it's crystal clear that you're a blind fan boy moron who can't back up his outrageous opinions with anything resembling facts.

5) There's no GOAT. It's impossible to decide. Open era? Sure, but even then surface disparity, technology and competition raise too many questions to ever come to any concrete conclusions.
 
drakulie said:
The OP is taking Agassi's comments out of context, and is "lying by ommission".

Agassi made it clear he believes Fed is the greatest player of all time. he later added, a "what if" argument to the Mcenroes,,,, he said (I'm paraphrasing), "What if Nadal were to win this years US Open, and how would that effect this argument? Nadal would have won on all 4 surfaces, have the gold and davis cup (two things fed has yet to accomplish), and have the overall better head-to-head."

He never stated this would make Nadal the GOAT, or not make Fed the GOAT. he was throwing out a hypothetical to "stir the pot".
Click to expand...

Agreed. Anyone who actually LISTENED to what Agassi said (instead of taking the second-hand word of trollers) would know that Agassi said (and has said repeatedly) that Fed is GOAT.

He then went onto say that if Nadal wins the US Open, Fed couldn't legitimately claim to be better than Nadal since they've played each other too much to discount the H2H and because Nadal has an Olympic gold and a Davis Cup title, neither of which Fed has. Agassi made this point by saying hypothetically that if Nadal wins the US Open, and Nadal and Fed are sitting together in the same room and Fed says "I'm the greatest of all time", Nadal could legitimately say, "Excuse me?...Im' here".

Agassi's point is legitimate, and says basically the same thing in a different way...the only player with a legitimate chance of surpassing Fed as GOAT is Nadal, but Nadal HAS TO WIN the US Open to establish that legitimacy.
 
I just don't think the tennis world is the same comparing it to the start of the year. Federer broke Sampras' record and I am sure that lifted a lot of weight off him, he got married and had kids. Nadal on the other hand went out because of injury and it would be hard to think he would be the same physically and mentally on a consistent basis. He would now question how hard can he push himself again, when will it come back? It may also sound predatory but the other pros will find ways to take advantage of that. They are just not that afraid of him. I would be curious to see how the next match up between Federer and Nadal would be. Look back at this time last year and nobody would have thought what happened did happen.
 
hype/controversy/talking points, call them what you will, they're manufactured to give the game more publicity. the idea that any one player can conclusively be called the greatest of all time is ********, but the commentators will say anything to keep the debate alive because it'll keep people talking.
 
Ah well, Sureshs, at least you don't agree with Agassi. You think Federer is the GOAT after winning cincinnati.
 
drakulie said:
The OP is taking Agassi's comments out of context, and is "lying by ommission".

Agassi made it clear he believes Fed is the greatest player of all time. he later added, a "what if" argument to the Mcenroes,,,, he said (I'm paraphrasing), "What if Nadal were to win this years US Open, and how would that effect this argument? Nadal would have won on all 4 surfaces, have the gold and davis cup (two things fed has yet to accomplish), and have the overall better head-to-head."

He never stated this would make Nadal the GOAT, or not make Fed the GOAT. he was throwing out a hypothetical to "stir the pot".
Click to expand...

hehehehehe
 
It is clear now:

1. If Nadal wins the USO without facing Fed, he will have the career slam + Oly gold + the same dominating H2H against Fed. Fed's claim to GOATness is gone. Only thing tying Fed to GOATness now is that Nadal does not have a career slam yet.

2. If Nadal wins the USO by defeating Fed, Nadal is the GOAT. He would have a 14-7 record, and wins in all Slam finals. Fed will not be in the reckoning again till he defeats Nadal in, say, at least 2 different Slam finals again.

That is why I think it is better if Fed retires now before these hypothetical events happen. It is still not too late. He can tank early in the Open, and announce his retirement.
 
sureshs said:
It is clear now:

1. If Nadal wins the USO without facing Fed, he will have the career slam + Oly gold + the same dominating H2H against Fed. Fed's claim to GOATness is gone. Only thing tying Fed to GOATness now is that Nadal does not have a career slam yet.

2. If Nadal wins the USO by defeating Fed, Nadal is the GOAT. He would have a 14-7 record, and wins in all Slam finals. Fed will not be in the reckoning again till he defeats Nadal in, say, at least 2 different Slam finals again.

That is why I think it is better if Fed retires now before these hypothetical events happen. It is still not too late. He can tank early in the Open, and announce his retirement.
Click to expand...

So all of Federer's other records become obsolete? Nadal will have won 1 AO, 1 W and 1 USO. Federer will have wone 3 AO, 6 W, and 5 USO. (Nadal obviously superior at FO.) Federer will have been number one for far longer. He will still have FAR more slams than Nadal. And what about the Tennis Masters Cup wins?

To be honest, I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to think that a winning H2H is more important than all of Fed's other achievements, but each to their own I guess.

And you forgot Federer's main claim to GOATness - he won Cincinnati, the REAL slam.
 
What if ......

What if Federer wins the next French open beating Nadal in the final?

Love how the biased Nadal fans got excited with all those what-ifs.
 
This is the biggest load of crap I've ever read in my life.
First Agassi says Federer is the greatest player he's ever faced, now for attention's sake he questions Federer's status as GOAT?
The man has no place in this discussion, so he should just shut his big mouth and let tennis be tennis, we don't need another long winded discussion about who is GOAT or who isn't and why and blah blah blah blah....
Andre got owned by Sampras, then he got owned by Federer...
As I said, the man has no place in discussing this, and he's bringing this up just for shameless self promotion...
But that's the Las Vegan way, ain't it just???
 
Who cares?
I'd love to see another Rafa-Fed final; I loved every one of them.
I like Rafa better but Roger is just magnificent. Couldn't care less who is GOAT, what the H2H is and everything else. Rafa brings the war on the tennis court and Roger brings a really beautiful game. In top 10 today the only one is hard to watch (for me) is Murray.
Enjoy the tennis and don't forget to go out on the tennis court and swing!!!
 
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sureshs said:
He was in the booth for the Roddick match and said two things:

1. If Nadal wins the USO, it will throw the GOAT discussion wide open again. The reasons he gave were Nadal would have career slam, an Olympic simgles gold which Fed does not have (and Agassi has, which is significant), and the lopsided head to head of 13-7 and counting.

2. He said very softly towards the end that Murray would win the USO.

The first sentiment is being echoed by several commentators. If Nadal wins this one, claims of Fed GOATness fade away. I believe it was Cahill who said that Fed needs to beat Nadal in a Slam final to settle this. Losing repatedly in the FO final was OK as Nadal was a "clay court specialist" but then losing in both W and AO finals to him showed a troubling pattern of inferiority.

Looking at how Fed played against Devin yesterday, I don't think he has a chance against Murray, let alone Nadal.
Click to expand...

But Fed has 18 slams! (6 Wimblys, 5 USOs, 3 AOs, 1 FO, 3 Cincy titles)

sureshs said:
Cincinnati - the real Slam

Today's semifinals feature the top 4 players. Unlike the last 2 "Slams". I contend that whoever wins here is the real #1 and the GOAT. I have a feeling it won't be the guy with the elegant strokes.
Click to expand...
 
Rippy said:
To be honest, I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to think that a winning H2H is more important than all of Fed's other achievements, but each to their own I guess.
Click to expand...

I think you forget the main point of this thread - Agassi opened this up. He said something like "the entire GOAT discussion comes out of the bag again" and "If I was Nadal, and having breakfast with Fed, and he goes I am the GOAT, I would be like Excuse me?"

Cahill also said similar things.

If Agassi feels that Nadal winning the USO casts a big shadow over Fed's GOATness, who am I to object? I am just a messenger.
 
poplar said:
What if ......

What if Federer wins the next French open beating Nadal in the final?

Love how the biased Nadal fans got excited with all those what-ifs.
Click to expand...

Which is closer, the USO or the FO?

Again, for the Nth time, Agassi is not a biased Nadal fan. He has the greatest respect for Federer.

Though I think he secretely feels delighted about Fed not winning the Olympic gold and having a bad h2h against Nadal, something he did not have against Pete.
 
sureshs said:
He was in the booth for the Roddick match and said two things:

1. If Nadal wins the USO, it will throw the GOAT discussion wide open again. The reasons he gave were Nadal would have career slam, an Olympic simgles gold which Fed does not have (and Agassi has, which is significant), and the lopsided head to head of 13-7 and counting.

2. He said very softly towards the end that Murray would win the USO.

The first sentiment is being echoed by several commentators. If Nadal wins this one, claims of Fed GOATness fade away. I believe it was Cahill who said that Fed needs to beat Nadal in a Slam final to settle this. Losing repatedly in the FO final was OK as Nadal was a "clay court specialist" but then losing in both W and AO finals to him showed a troubling pattern of inferiority.

Looking at how Fed played against Devin yesterday, I don't think he has a chance against Murray, let alone Nadal.
Click to expand...

Well, it would somewhat diminish his claim to the GOAT, if Nadal wins this major. He would have the career grand slam as well and a winning h2h over Roger. I would still say that Roger is the GOAT because of all the majors he's won but maybe not so much the clear GOAT.
 
JoshDragon said:
Well, it would somewhat diminish his claim to the GOAT, if Nadal wins this major. He would have the career grand slam as well and a winning h2h over Roger. I would still say that Roger is the GOAT because of all the majors he's won but maybe not so much the clear GOAT.
Click to expand...

You have already admmited Federer is the GOAT and the real #1. There is no going back now.
 
P_Agony said:
You have already admmited Federer is the GOAT and the real #1. There is no going back now.
Click to expand...

I have admitted that Roger is the clear GOAT but when I said that I wasn't allowing for the possibility of another player to win the career slam, have a respectable amount of majors and a winning h2h against him.

I think if Nadal does win the career grand slam and another 3 majors, he would be a direct contender for Roger's GOAT status, assuming he still has the winning h2h against him.
 
JoshDragon said:
I have admitted that Roger is the clear GOAT but when I said that I wasn't allowing for the possibility of another player to win the career slam, have a respectable amount of majors and a winning h2h against him.

I think if Nadal does win the career grand slam and another 3 majors, he would be a direct contender for Roger's GOAT status, assuming he still has the winning h2h against him.
Click to expand...

I was talking to sureshs, but anyway, I have to disagree with you.

Even if Nadal wins the USO and gets his career slam, he doesn't even have half the number of slams Fed has. Calling him even a GOAT contender is crazy, and I don't even think Fed is GOAT.
 
P_Agony said:
I was talking to sureshs, but anyway, I have to disagree with you.

Even if Nadal wins the USO and gets his career slam, he doesn't even have half the number of slams Fed has. Calling him even a GOAT contender is crazy, and I don't even think Fed is GOAT.
Click to expand...

Just curious, who do you consider the GOAT.
 
P_Agony said:
I was talking to sureshs, but anyway, I have to disagree with you.

Even if Nadal wins the USO and gets his career slam, he doesn't even have half the number of slams Fed has. Calling him even a GOAT contender is crazy, and I don't even think Fed is GOAT.
Click to expand...

I said that he needs to also have another 3 slams. Nadal, would have 10 altogether before he could challenge Roger's title as the GOAT.
 
JoshDragon said:
I said that he needs to also have another 3 slams. Nadal, would have 10 altogether before he could challenge Roger's title as the GOAT.
Click to expand...

BTW, according to sureshs himself (herself?), Federer is the GOAT, the real #1, and has 18 slams. Just check my first post in the former page.
 
Agassi didnt question Feds GOAT status in fact he said as of right now Fed IS THE GOAT. Agassi only stated that IF Nadal wins the USO then there will be ONE person who can questions status as GOAT (that person being Nadal).
 
drakulie said:
Let's stay on topic. How can someone be "injured" and "not injured" at the same time? And how come the ATP hasn't come forward with the truth?
Click to expand...

They are waiting for Nadal's Slim Jim commercial to air.

"Snap into a Slim Jim...oooooooohhhhhh yeahhhhhhh!!!!!!"
 
cknobman said:
Agassi didnt question Feds GOAT status in fact he said as of right now Fed IS THE GOAT. Agassi only stated that IF Nadal wins the USO then there will be ONE person who can questions status as GOAT (that person being Nadal).
Click to expand...

Exactly. It was a very good point by Ags and was not controversial at all.
 
drakulie said:
Let's stay on topic. How can someone be "injured" and "not injured" at the same time? And how come the ATP hasn't come forward with the truth?
Click to expand...

what topic? you're the one who went off topic in the first place. This thread was never about Nadal's withdrawal from Wimbledon...
 
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