Age division or men's 4.5
- Thread starter dgold44
- Start date
In Norcal, 35 Age groups normally have 5.5+ as seeded players. 40 and 45 Age groups, 5.0-5.5 are normal seeds. Pretty tough to play against people like that even though they're 45 years old or more. 4.5's would be at the bottom of the pecking order.
Why I will never play an age tourney again and I am too old for juniors lol
I played 35 and drew the club head pro and lost badly about 4 yrs ago
Club pros are usually not that good (in the grand scheme of things). They are usually old, or young and certified with "connections".
There is a "club pro" here who is a USTA-1 teaching pro, but only has the job because he's the grandson of the owner of the country club. He's probably also a "hipster" because of his ridiculous beard and likely wears jeans as tight as my boxer-briefs in a casual environment.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
How tight are your boxers?
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Age groups are essentially the guys who used to play open level but got old. If you never played open level in your 20s, you probably aren't going to compete in age groups in your 30s and 40s and up unless you can make up ground on those guys somehow (which is unlikely, since they are obviously still playing tennis regularly).
Here, the 40's & 45s seeded players are typically low-avg 5.0, so slightly better than 4.5 but not too much.
Teaching pros are often not the best competitive players. I think spending all day every day feeding slowballs to people who can barely hit it back is a serious detriment to your own game.
Teaching pros are often not the best competitive players. I think spending all day every day feeding slowballs to people who can barely hit it back is a serious detriment to your own game.
Boxer-briefs, so pretty tight, much tighter than boxers.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I'm thinking along similar lines: age group divisions will have greater variability than NTRP divisions. I'm pretty sure I can get a better idea of how good someone is by knowing their NTRP than knowing their age.
navigator
Hall of Fame
I didn't play for almost 30 years after I graduated from HS and, bizarrely (and definitely not part of any plan), I think my tennis is better for it because I didn't beat up my body for almost three decades. Since I started playing again I've beaten a couple of guys (one formerly ATP-ranked ~500) in the O45s that would've decimated me in the juniors. And I can compete with certain others that would've beaten me like a drum 30 years back. And I can probably close the gap on some of these folks over the next 5-10 years. The way you can make up ground on *some* of these folks is... fitness. Power diminishes over time. If you've got decent tennis skills but can run... and run... you can catch up with a lot of these folks as they get fatter, slower, and their bodies break down (avoid hard courts!). But this probably doesn't apply as much to the "young seniors" (O35s-O45s) as it does to the seniors and super-seniors.
I think this fits for most "local" tournaments. But in the regional and national tournaments (and ITF Grades A, 1 and 2), there are definitely a number of 5.0+/5.5s in the O45s and O50s.
No doubt about it. Unless you're getting to play with competitive juniors or have an active circle of players outside of your teaching pro duties, being a teaching pro is detrimental to one's game (from what I see, at least).
Agreed, but... unless the person is playing sanctioned tournaments/league tennis... their NTRP rating is a self-appraisal and, thus, almost useless.
I think the "average" player in, for example, the O45s and O50s tournaments, is probably around 4.5, or the same as for 4.5 tournaments. But the better players are well above that. I don't see a ton of 4.0 players in these tournaments, but they're definitely out there. Of course, there are a lot of 4.0 players who play in 4.5 events as well. But, yeah, the average is probably about the same but the variability is greater. The average probably dips to 4.0 as you reach the O55s and slowly declines as the age group increases.
navigator
Hall of Fame
Not quite; more like a 4.5+ if we're putting a very fine point on it.
Eh, above-average but not exceptional. I think as I age I *appear* to have more natural athletic ability than I really do simply because I'm not declining at the same rate as most my peers. But I'm probably one knee injury away from being quite average.
Maybe... probably. I'm more familiar with the O45s and O50s. Definitely once you hit the O60s the average is more like 4.0 but it may be the case in the O55s as well.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think it's bizarre at all: isn't that what happened to Tommy Haas?
I did something similar...except in the interim I played indoor volleyball. OK, so it wasn't so similar.
wings56
Hall of Fame
Definitely
Booger
Hall of Fame
Some of you guys are underestimating the amount of sandbagging in 4.5's. Last year, the final of our local 4.5 league was between two ex-D1 players, both recently out of school. The winner is a 6'4" monster who bombs first serves at about 125mph (verified on the gun). I'm a decent 5.0 (4-0 so far this year) and both of those "4.5's" smoked me.
Yes the 4.5 has a few 5.0 guys that should be playing open . I noticed this too . Plus u get plenty of out of shape 5.0 guys with dad bodies and young 4.0 guys who are in good shape
4.0 tourneys are a giant hack fest but has fun variety of players and each player is a video game boss fight because of weakness and strength
navigator
Hall of Fame
Perhaps a better word is "counterintuitive." If you took two players at the exact same level at age 18 and said Player A played in college and continued to play a lot of tennis into middle age, while Player B quit at 18 and picked up his racquets again 30 years later and started playing a lot of tennis, and then you asked who was likely the better player at age 50, I suspect the vast majority of people would say Player A. Tommy Haas... I have no idea. I know he's a pro but I didn't follow pro tennis at all for decades and I don't follow it that closely now.
I'm sure this happens but I did not see this at all in San Diego during the 2-3 years I was playing tournaments there. The folks you're describing played Open level tournaments. And there are a lot of these players (and tournaments) in SD. But I'm dealing with a one-city sample which is, by definition, small. [I just noticed you said "league"... I have no idea what happens in these sanctioned NTRP leagues.]
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
He got injured multiple times in his career and didn't play constantly like everyone else and is still competing with the big boys at 38.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Haas
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
But how often does this happen? You mentioned one incident and I agree, that seemed like major sandbagging. But what about all of the other matches at 4.5?
Booger
Hall of Fame
lol this happens every year and has been this way for as long as I can remember. I think a big part of the problem is that there are relatively few open level players here in the NW. You either have to travel for hours on weekends for possibly a single match or just sandbag with the 4.5's. I'm guessing it's the same in most places that aren't Florida, Texas, or southern California.
From what I have seen, I would say the level at O55 is a lot better than 4.0, at least in big events. I know guys who play O65 and routinely get to the finals of 4.0 tournaments. The top guys don't even bother with 4.0 events.
When you get to the 55s and particularly the 60's and 65's, you have a lot of guys who don't really fit the ratings because they have 5.0 or better strokes and 3.5 movement. How they do against a 4.0 or 4.5 will depend on if the other guy can run everything down and stay in points and if he can handle someone coming to the net a lot. The top guys grew up playing serve and volley or at least a far more aggressive game than is played now, so your average young 4.0 is going to be facing more pressure than he is used to.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
Bad habits learned from feeding:
* not watching the contact point - instead watching across the net
* slowing down racquet swing (to keep pace slower for student)
* intentionally make the ball land short (so student has enough time to adjust)
* not moving feet (the little steps needed in prep)
* continental grip all day
Regarding 4.5 vs. Age tourneys...
In the east, all the 4.5s I play with, *always* play open or age graded tourneys.. never play NTRP tourneys.
So a 4.5 tourney will be all 4.0's except for that 1 4.5.
In Middle States, there are rarely 4.5 draws at all. 3.5 and 4.0 are the common NTRP draws, but there is usually more interest in age group draws than NTRP draws.
atatu
Legend
This is very true, 4.5 league is ridiculous, so many ringers of all ages (like 17 year olds who turn 18 this year) but 4.5 tourneys not as much.
No...not many 4.0's in the 55's, most are at least 4.5. Here's a link to a recent seniors tournament in Texas, the top guys are 5.0, lot's of 4.5's maybe one or two 4.0's who lost first round. http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=172718#&&s=7Draws7
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