In their rivalry after 2017 Roger dominated because he played carefree tennis and Rafa was only a shadow of himself.
That's fine. Your prerogative, but you would be in the minority.
That's what they say! But of course, Nadal has become beefier. And I looked at two different ELO's.
That's why ELO is not reliable. Ferrer has a higher ELO than Safin and Wawrinka and Murray had as good of an ELO as Sampras at one point.
Talent-wise between Nadal and Djoko there is not a gigantic difference like you seem to state. Also Nadal is behind Fed, not barely IMO.
Federer was more talented than Nadal and Novak that is clear to each and everyone who saw 20 years of battle between big 3.
I never said that Federer is less talented than Nadalovic, read again what I wrote.
This is something that most people do not seem to understand. Instead of losing easily (which SHOULD have been the case given his outdated racket and stroke), Federer was always there with a few points changing everything. As stated above, mental strength doesn’t exist in a vacuum — when the new modern game penalizes everything in your game and rewards everything in your opponents’ games who happen to be younger than you and you wind up playing legacy matches from the age of 23 years old, these things wear down on you.
I agree with almost all of this. Fed being 6 years older and putting a GOAT candidate in his prime on the ropes multiple times…if anything he’s got an argument for mental strength on par with the other 2. He could be just a tad below but it’s close.
Not to mention it was always going to be easier at one point for the younger Djokovic to be mentally stronger against an older diminished Fed.
What an incredibly interesting argument!
Nadal won a lot more at a younger age than both Djoko and Fed, a sign of talent, since talent manifests at a younger age. Fed and Djokovic were teenage prodigies as well but not nearly to the extent of Rafa. Fedovic struggled for some time when they went pro but Rafa went in guns blazing and was 16 years old when he cracked top 50.
I watched Nadal interview with Andy Roddick where he said 2017 was best roger played but never he said for himself that his court coverage was almost gone.
2014 was the real revival for Federer, with bigger racquet and new coach Edberg. Unfortunately, over the next three years, Federer and Djokovic met in 3 finals and a semi, and Federer lost them all.
I know that this is a common narrative here, but he didn't play S&V during his formative years or even after turning pro. He was a pure baseliner who rarely (if ever) approached the net during matches. If you don't believe me, take a look at some of his earliest matches (1998 Basel vs Agassi, 1998 Wimbledon Boys' final; there is also a full DC match against Italy in 1999 on Youtube). Even in 2000, against Kafelnikov at Wimbledon, he was still somewhat timid in that department, as a player like Yevgeny played more than twice as many S&V points as Fed.
Have you seriously ever watched Nadal? Speedydal was always the better player, that's why when his speed plummeted in 2014 he couldn't ever beat Djokovic off of clay. It wasn't that his team realized muscle > speed, it was that his speed was falling off at an alarming rate and to make up for him being slower they had to give him more power. How do people not know this?
Have you ever watched Federer-Nadal and Nadal-Djokovic matches? I doubt it! Because, before '13, Federer and Djokovic would bat the ball from corner to corner.
Djokovic's mental strength was emphasized by his matches with his two big rivals, Federer and Nadal!
2023 was the perfect year to sum this up lol. Tsitsipas Ruud Medvedev all steamrolled by an elderly Djokovic and the only person who could stop him from vulturing CYGS was pre-prime Alcaraz. Nadal and Federer wasn't even there. Next year Medvedev Zverev Fritz and Djokovic himself proceeded to all get destroyed by Sincaraz. 90s gen should have stuck to pickleball.
Conveniently so, after 2013 is when Nadal lost his speed? Coincidence if you're delulu enough to believe it's one.
Now I'm convinced you didn't even read my comment.
Uhhh the same generation that gave up 3 slams to Oldkovic in the span of a single year when they were in their primes?
Then why did Nadal change his physique, just for the look of it?
Dear lord, you didn't even read that comment either. I just said Nadal lost speed, and what's the point of being powerless and not speedy? Might as well drop the speed further with more bulk in return for muscle. You're making your fanbase look incredibly unintelligent right now.
Nonsequitur. Do you talk like a bot in real life?
That's because the fanbases of Federer and Nadal become blind to what the whole world sees. I challenge ;everybody to come up with an international organization that recognized someone other than Djokovic as GOAT.
Yeh, Djokovic won 3 slams after having double match points down against Federer.
I don't know about that, by that logic isn't Djoko more talented than Fed since he was better at ages 19-22 overall? Nole won his first Slam, WTF and Master 1000 at a younger age than Fed.
3/10 bait, still haven't answered any of my points, produces nonsequitur random comments, and clearly boiling yourself. Pack it up little bro.
Federer definitely most talented no question.Fed was the most talented. I think this is pretty clear. However, he clearly struggled mentally, whether that be clutchness or being too stubborn in his playstyle. While he may have been a hard worker and trained a lot, he clearly never had the intensity or love to train like Rafa did. I mean, when you are that talented, you simply dont need to.
Djoker was mentally the toughest. The number of clutch moments he has had. Plus, the IQ he plays with is pretty condoning to winning. He overcomes quite a bit mentally. Without his mental toughness, there is a good chance he has about 10 slams.
Rafa clearly worked the hardest. The way he trained and how much he trained was enormous. The intensity he plays with shows this as well. That said, it probably also cost him in the long run due to his body not being able to stay healthy throughout his career.
Yet, Rafa seems to be second in talent, not far from Fed. Rafa seems to also be second in mental toughness, not far from Djoker. Rafa seems to have encompassed all three aspects at the highest level or right below the highest level possible.
Or, and I might be crazy here, but maybe Djoker is way more talented than we all give him credit for?
Exactly. Id argue Federer was mentally stronger than Novak as i judge this on winning the biggest matches when you are supposed to. Del Potro 2009 apart and perhaps Nadal 2008 i cannot remember Federer ever losing slam finals to lesser players.
Fed lost pretty early to Murray early on and had problems with Thiem and Zverev in his later years.
You are trying to avoid something!3/10 bait, still haven't answered any of my points, produces nonsequitur random comments, and clearly boiling yourself. Pack it up little bro.
How can Fedfans be so deluded? Could be it that they desperately grasp at anything? Mentally strong Federer? The question was who was the most mentally strong!
I'll answer when you make a reasonable argument to my points which I brought up first (even a half-assed argument would be a start for you) instead of blah blah blah GOATGOATGOAT like how you Djoke Hivemind drones can't help but do.
I know your answer: there's no such magazine!
Which ones lol. Every magazine ive read has different GOATs within same magazine depending on who is writing the article!
All the magazines! Kindly name one! And we are only discussing the Big 3 here!
You think I'm trying to avoid you when you have been switching up the topic and dancing around the fact that you don't even know why Nadal made the playstyle changes he did (the original topic) to suddenly which magazine names who as GOAT.
As of this moment in time, or after all the Big 3 slams have been won!
Did I really get you this mad? First you lose an argument, then you switch the argument, then you implode. I suppose the one thing Djokovic doesn't share with his fans is focus.
It's very important to argue over what shade of blue is best for the sky. VERY important.
