Alcaraz and Sinner have 4x the slams that 89-99 born generations

Djokovic2011 said:
But according to abmk's always accurate eye test that was a "meh level" from Djokovic. :laughing:
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Same as Olympics 2024 and USO 2023. Every time Djokovic wins it's because it's an asterisk, inflation, weak, etc era. And when Federer doesn't win, it's because it was the toughest competition but he would have won otherwise if he was facing Djokovic's competition. The Federer that lost to Goffin in the semis in 2017 would have won in 2023 in the asterisk era, of course.
 
Even now I think they would struggle against the top players of 2003-2016, the people not named Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic. They don't win 5 slams in that era even if you take the big 3 out of the picture. Just shows what this sport has become.
 
Incognito said:
As a Rafa supporter, those slams he won post 2017 were really weak ones. How can you win so many majors when you’re not half of what you were physically? I like the majors he won between 2005-2013. At least those were won against big names. Maybe that 2020 RG is fine, at least it was djokovic in the final. But Medvedev, thiem and Ruud are not Alcaraz and Sinner. But it is what it is.
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How were they "weak"?? From 2017-2020 he lost 3 total sets at Roland Garros, including 2017 and 2020 without dropping a set. 2 USO titles (including the best Final of the 2010s decade at the USO), and one of the greatest comebacks ever at AO 2022. I only ask this because only Nadal has his slam wins criticized as "weak". Novak NEVER does, Fed NEVER does. Novak can beat a gassed Anderson coming off a 26-24 fifth set SF @ Wimbledon, and nobody blinks an eyelash. He can face Kyrgios in a Wimby Final, nobody bats an eyelash. He can emerge from a COVID locker room breakout in 2022 Wimbledon (and a Nadal WD in the semis), nobody bats an eyelash
 
That Tsitsipas/Zverev/Dmitrov gen has proven to be very mentally brittle in big situations. Even Meddy, who I'm a big fan of, has had things go haywire for him in a couple Slams he should've won (up 2 sets against Sinner @ AO 2024, laying 2 eggs against Djoko at AO 2020 and USO 2023, etc). The inability of Tsitsi, Zverev, and Meddy to beat or even challenge old man Djoko is pathetic. Alcaraz and Sinner have proven to have the mental toughness the '89-'99 gen seriously lack. Not they haven't won anything, as Tsitsipas, Zverev, Meddy and Dimitrov have all won M 1000s, and each has won the ATP Finals. But in Slams, they come up woefully short in big moments too often
 
Mustard said:
Federer 20 majors, Hewitt 2 majors, Safin 2 majors, Roddick 1 major, Ferrero 1 major, so false.
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slams are not everything in tennis. what about weeks at #1? despite nole was stolen for 22 frozen and many other weeks in 2022 and begin of 2023 due W22 points and bans. as well as 2022 YE#1!

and all them together have 2 CGS and nole has 3!
all them has 1 CGM and nole has 2!
 
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Djokovic2011 said:
But according to abmk's always accurate eye test that was a "meh level" from Djokovic. :laughing:
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Hitman said:
What? That was a meh level? o_O

SMH
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never said that about djokovic's YEC 23 level.
But looks like @Djokovic2011 knows deep inside his heart many other times when djokovic has won with a meh level aka vultured. But can't admit it. So trying to deflect

and LOL at that hyping up of Alcaraz level indoors "It's crazy how good and Alcaraz and Sinner are."

yeah, they are Sampras+becker+federer+borg combined. LMAO...

hutt... they are not even above hewitt/roddick/safin level in general.
 
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RS said:
Djokovic YEC 2023 final vs Federer YEC 2011 final who wins?
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bro, we saw djoko in YEC 18 final get dismantled by zverev after dominating before that.
djoko 23 is clearly below djoko YEC 18.
 
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MissileBackHand99 said:
How were they "weak"?? From 2017-2020 he lost 3 total sets at Roland Garros, including 2017 and 2020 without dropping a set. 2 USO titles (including the best Final of the 2010s decade at the USO), and one of the greatest comebacks ever at AO 2022. I only ask this because only Nadal has his slam wins criticized as "weak". Novak NEVER does, Fed NEVER does. Novak can beat a gassed Anderson coming off a 26-24 fifth set SF @ Wimbledon, and nobody blinks an eyelash. He can face Kyrgios in a Wimby Final, nobody bats an eyelash. He can emerge from a COVID locker room breakout in 2022 Wimbledon (and a Nadal WD in the semis), nobody bats an eyelash
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you are kidding.
djokovic has the highest number of vultured slams. like 7-8 and that's what is pointed out most.
(Wim 19, 21, 22; AO 20, 21,23, RG 23, USO 23)

nadal would've lost one of RG 18-20 in decent competition, would've lost RG 22 with decent competition
USO 17 was a joke draw.

USO 19 was weak too. and nadal could've finished the final in straights.
AO 22 - should've lost to shapo if not for shapo fail, and med with a mega choke in the final.

that's like 4 vultured slams for nadal.

fed has 1 (AO 18)

Wim 17 draw was weak, but fed level was high enough.
 
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abmk said:
never said that about djokovic's YEC 23 level.
But looks like @Djokovic2011 knows deep inside his heart many other times when djokovic has won with a meh level aka vultured. But can't admit it. So trying to deflect

and LOL at that hyping up of Alcaraz level indoors "It's crazy how good and Alcaraz and Sinner are."

yeah, they are Sampras+becker+federer+borg combined. LMAO...

hutt... they are not even above hewitt/roddick/safin level in general.
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Fair enough.
 
RS said:
Djokovic YEC 2023 final vs Federer YEC 2011 final who wins?
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Two very different courts. Djokovic put on a clinic in the semi and finals against Alcaraz and Sinner.

Federer was solid in his own way, dismantled Nadal and played a good Tsonga.

I
 
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Hitman said:
Two very different courts. Djokovic put on a clinic in the semi and finals against Alcaraz and Sinner.

Federer was solid in his own way, dismantled Nadal and played a good Tsonga.

I
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Yeah I think it would be a tough match for both not really interested in calling a winner.
 
RS said:
Yeah I think it would be a tough match for both not really interested in calling a winner.
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It would be a 50-50. Both would win 5 matches each if it was a 10 match series. Just IMO. The courts were playing very differently, Turin was super fast like ice.
 
abmk said:
never said that about djokovic's YEC 23 level.
But looks like @Djokovic2011 knows deep inside his heart many other times when djokovic has won with a meh level aka vultured. But can't admit it. So trying to deflect

and LOL at that hyping up of Alcaraz level indoors "It's crazy how good and Alcaraz and Sinner are."

yeah, they are Sampras+becker+federer+borg combined. LMAO...

hutt... they are not even above hewitt/roddick/safin level in general.
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So you believe Djokovic's winning the 2023 WTF was well deserved then?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
So you believe Djokovic's winning the 2023 WTF was well deserved then?
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Djokovic had a good level, but Sinner threw a bone in that he could have influenced the result.

So, it is not like dominant Fed runs going 3-0 time and again but I will take it as we can boast of wins against Sinneraz for years to come , especially that may sound awesome for new fans
 
ND-13 said:
Djokovic had a good level, but Sinner threw a bone in that he could have influenced the result.

So, it is not like dominant Fed runs going 3-0 time and again but I will take it as we can boast of wins against Sinneraz for years to come , especially that may sound awesome for new fans
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Wasn't he wonderful ND? :love:
 
ND-13 said:
Federer occupies too much head space.
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It was special to see Djokovic in his mid 30s take that record.

Completing the set of most slams, most masters, most YEC, most weeks at number one, most year ending numbers. All of them being standalone.

I thought Federer's YEC record was safe, but Djokovic hunted it down and made it happen. (y)
 
Hitman said:
It was special to see Djokovic in his mid 30s take that record.

Completing the set of most slams, most masters, most YEC, most weeks at number one, most year ending numbers. All of them being standalone.

I thought Federer's YEC record was safe, but Djokovic hunted it down and made it happen. (y)
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Actually I expected that record to be broken way too sooner . Djokovic had way too many losses that he should not have had

But in the end , he was never as dominant at YEC like RF was in terms of unbeaten runs.

So, while the overall titles are more the runs lacked greatness like RF. It is what it is
 
ND-13 said:
Actually I expected that record to be broken way too sooner . Djokovic had way too many losses that he should not have had

But in the end , he was never as dominant at YEC like RF was in terms of unbeaten runs.

So, while the overall titles are more the runs lacked greatness like RF. It is what it is
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I thought Djokovic might have broken it after his epic four in a row, the first ever in history, when he won from 2012 and 2015 and showed unparalleled dominance. Correct me if I am wrong, but Federer won no more than two in a row at a time, yes?

The loss to Murray was tough one, I felt after that his chances were probably gone.

I thought at best, he would be able to equal Federer. But the manner in which he clutched out those YEC titles back to in 2022 and 2023 in his mid 30s was truly the stuff of legend.

Winning four in a row, and also becoming the oldest to win it and that too back to back, against ATG players 14 and 16 years younger was truly a special moment in professional tennis history. It was the last Federer record that he need to take at tournament level, and he did it. It capped off a truly remarkable year in tennis history, taking both the slam record and YEC record in the same season and cementing himself at the top.
 
ND-13 said:
Actually I expected that record to be broken way too sooner . Djokovic had way too many losses that he should not have had

But in the end , he was never as dominant at YEC like RF was in terms of unbeaten runs.

So, while the overall titles are more the runs lacked greatness like RF. It is what it is
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Federer was a bit more consistent but Djokovic was more dominant(only player to win 4 successive titles) and also had greater longevity. It is what it is ND.
 
Hitman said:
I thought Djokovic might have broken it after his epic four in a row, the first ever in history, when he won from 2012 and 2015 and showed unparalleled dominance. Correct me if I am wrong, but Federer won no more than two in a row at a time, yes?

The loss to Murray was tough one, I felt after that his chances were probably gone.

I thought at best, he would be able to equal Federer. But the manner in which he clutched out those YEC titles back to in 2022 and 2023 in his mid 30s was truly the stuff of legend.

Winning four in a row, and also becoming the oldest to win it and that too back to back, against ATG players 14 and 16 years younger was truly a special moment in professional tennis history. It was the last Federer record that he need to take at tournament level, and he did it. It capped off a truly remarkable year in tennis history, taking both the slam record and YEC record in the same season and cementing himself at the top.
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2023 was epic AF. :giggle:
 
Hitman said:
Yes, he beat the two best in the world and broke the record. It was truly heroic and one of the most iconic moments in tennis history.
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Absolutely. And contrary to the BS abmk comes out with his level was actually very high that year. I doubt we'll ever witness such a level of play from a 36 year old ever again.
 
ND-13 said:
The moment you have a loss in the tournament it takes the sheen out of it . Maybe others see it differently
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LMAO - You're sounding like those Nadal fans who call it an exho! LMAO


The bottom line is, winning the title is winning the title. Djokovic has 7 titles, Federer has 6. The final record that fell.

I can see your frustration about Djokovic even more clearly.

At one point Federer had most slams, most YEC and most weeks at number one. It is what it is ND-13. This is sports.

Don't worry, Alcaraz and Sinner will smash all those records for you. (y)
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Absolutely. And contrary to the BS abmk comes out with his level was actually very high that year. I doubt we'll ever witness such a level of play from a 36 year old ever again.
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People are entitled to their opinions, as long as they understand that opinions and facts are not the same thing.
 
Hitman said:
People are entitled to their opinions, as long as they understand that opinions and facts are not the same thing.
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You do understand that the post you have replied to is an opinion?

It’s all stats until you lot decide it’s not. And you’re one of the sensible ones.
 
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canta_Brian said:
You do understand that the post you have replied to is an opinion?

It’s all stats until you lot decide it’s not. And you’re one of the sensible ones.
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I speak for all opinions.

But, 7 titles is a fact. Beating two players who are dominant players back to back for the 7th title is a fact.

The level of play is an opinion.
 
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Hitman said:
I speak for all opinions.

But, 7 titles is a fact. Beating two players who are dominant players back to back for the 7th title is a fact.

The level of play is an opinion.
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Not to forget the opinions that misuse stats and then claim they are facts. Those are my favs.
 
Hitman said:
But the record is 7 titles, no unbeaten run changes that. You still only get one title for it. That is the real fact.
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Who said anything about the number of titles ? To me an unbeaten run to a title is better than a run with defeats. May be you see it on par.
 
ND-13 said:
Who said anything about the number of titles ? To me an unbeaten run to a title is better than a run with defeats. May be you see it on par.
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But the fact is 7 titles is the record.

Federer has 6 titles, unbeaten or not. I mean he lost YEC 2007 RR to Gonzalez and went onto win the title. These things happen.

I see winning titles as the definition of who is the best at the event. I always have, always will.
 
Hitman said:
Stats can be interrupted in many ways, what is a misuse is also an opinion.
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Scientific method identifies issues with the use of stats.
ND-13 said:
Who said anything about the number of titles ? To me an unbeaten run to a title is better than a run with defeats. May be you see it on par.
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This illustrates the point well enough. Only looking at the stat that say 1 title won does not add to the understanding of dominance.
 
Hitman said:
But the fact is 7 titles is the record.

Federer has 6 titles, unbeaten or not. I mean he lost YEC 2007 RR to Gonzalez and went onto win the title. These things happen.

I see winning titles as the definition of who is the best at the event. I always have, always will.
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7 titles is the record , no one argues that 7 titles is less than 6 with several unbeaten runs in terms of absolute numbers

But the way the numbers are accumulated tells a story. It is up to you to choose to recognize it or not. You may choose not to because it doesn’t suit your narrative but the story cannot be swept under .
 
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