Alcaraz and Sinner have 4x the slams that 89-99 born generations

[Incognito]

It would be a 50-50. Both would win 5 matches each if it was a 10 match series. Just IMO. The courts were playing very differently, Turin was super fast like ice.

Turin is not really fast because Ruud said he likes the speed of it. And you know what surface Ruud likes the most and where he wins the most .

 

[Dropshot777]

nole is greater than whole fed generation

Nobody asked

 

[Hitman]

Turin is not really fast because Ruud said he likes the speed of it. And you know what surface Ruud likes the most and where he wins the most .

Turin is fast. Ruud also made the USO final on the new faster surface.

It is not the speed, but the bounce that is most important for him.

 

[abmk]

It would be a 50-50. Both would win 5 matches each if it was a 10 match series. Just IMO. The courts were playing very differently, Turin was super fast like ice.

8-2 to 11 fed vs 23 djoko at the YEC. its not even close. speed of court doesn't matter. fed 11 is at an entirely different level game wise., physicality wise.

15 fed vs 23 djoko would be close

 

[abmk]

Yeah I think it would be a tough match for both not really interested in calling a winner.

see above ^^

 

[RS]

see above ^^

I saw it just now.

 

[Hitman]

8-2 to 11 fed vs 23 djoko at the YEC. its not even close. speed of court doesn't matter. fed 11 is at an entirely different level game wise., physicality wise.

15 fed vs 23 djoko would be close

I think 8-2 is too much personally.

Outside of Nadal, he had to fight hard to get through. Fish was a tough one, and Tsonga was tough. Ferrer is his pigeon, the Nadal win was impressive.

I think Djokovic does make it 5-5, it is that close for me.

 

[abmk]

I think 8-2 is too much personally.

Outside of Nadal, he had to fight hard to get through. Fish was a tough one, and Tsonga was tough. Ferrer is his pigeon, the Nadal win was impressive.

I think Djokovic does make it 5-5, it is that close for me.

tsonga was playing well.
oh ferrer being pigeon means what?
fed 11 is at an entirely different level game wise, physicality wise than djoko YEC 23.

and fed in 15 YEC beat djoko, berdych, nishi, wawa. losing 1 set total in dead RR match? doesn't mean I'm going to put him close to fed of YEC 11.

fed 11 is at an entirely different level game wise., physicality wise. and can raise his level such where djoko 23 cannot reach.

djoko was dominant in YEC 18 before the final, but zverev beat him convincingly in the final. djoko 15 less dominant obviously, but he could raise his level to where 18 djoko could not reach and would eke it out vs zverev of YEC 18 final.

nadal was dominant in AO 19 before the final and we saw what happened in the final.

try a fed 12 vs djoko 18 comparison for closeness (djoko obviously better before final and fed better in the final) and fed 15 vs djoko 23 for closeness.

 

[Hitman]

tsonga was playing well.
oh ferrer being pigeon means what?
fed 11 is at an entirely different level game wise, physicality wise than djoko YEC 23.

and fed in 15 YEC beat djoko, berdych, nishi, wawa. losing 1 set total in dead RR match? doesn't mean I'm going to put him close to fed of YEC 11.

fed 11 is at an entirely different level game wise., physicality wise. and can raise his level such where djoko 23 cannot reach.

djoko was dominant in YEC 18 before the final, but zverev beat him convincingly in the final. djoko 15 less dominant obviously, but he could raise his level to where 18 djoko could not reach and would eke it out vs zverev of YEC 18 final.

nadal was dominant in AO 19 before the final and we saw what happened in the final.

try a fed 12 vs djoko 18 comparison for closeness (djoko obviously better before final and fed better in the final) and fed 15 vs djoko 23 for closeness.

Ferrer's game plays right into Federer's its quite simple. That is like Djokovic taking out someone like Cilic.

As I said, the win over Nadal was very impressive, the others ones he had to battle out a few tie breaks, I mean Fish was pushing him hard from what I remember.

Djokovic dominating YEC 18 doesn't change anything, 2023 happened in Turin under very different conditions at altitude, the ball was moving through the court a lot more. Both Alcaraz and Sinner were playing very well, especially Sinner. Rune also was playing very solid, wasn't easy for Djokovic or Sinner to beat him.

Djokovic just became another animal in the semi and the final, it is one of his most impressive wins at YEC.

I do think it would be a battle on equal footing, 5-5 seems reasonable for me.

Federer from 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007, yes I would certainly give them more wins against Djokovic 2023, but not the other winning versions.

 

[abmk]

Ferrer's game plays right into Federer's its quite simple. That is like Djokovic taking out someone like Cilic.

and?
still tougher than the everyone except Sinner in YEC 23.
and Cilic actually played djoko closest in YEC 18 before the final and the first set was ridiculously high level tennis.

As I said, the win over Nadal was very impressive, the others ones he had to battle out a few tie breaks, I mean Fish was pushing him hard from what I remember.

Djokovic dominating YEC 18 doesn't change anything, 2023 happened in Turin under very different conditions at altitude, the ball was moving through the court a lot more. Both Alcaraz and Sinner were playing very well, especially Sinner. Rune also was playing very solid, wasn't easy for Djokovic or Sinner to beat him.

Djokovic just became another animal in the semi and the final, it is one of his most impressive wins at YEC.

I do think it would be a battle on equal footing, 5-5 seems reasonable for me.

Federer from 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007, yes I would certainly give them more wins against Djokovic 2023, but not the other winning versions.

and how does Turin being faster help djokovic vs federer?

alcaraz was playing very well? LOL! he was below par indoors as he has been many times.

sinner was meh in the final

@ bold part: why not? because its inconvenient for you? djokovic was even more of an animal for YEC 2018 till zverev shut him out in the final till 4 all and then djokovic wilted.

it'd be as bad or more likely worse for djoko of YEC 23.

nadal was also an animal in AO 19 QF and SF crushing both his opponents. we all saw what happened in the final.

we've also seen fed being more dominant than djokovic in Wim 14, Wim 15, USO 15 and AO 16 before their matches and what happened when they met because djokovic simply had a better physicality and game at that time for slams. (and YEC - BO3 when it was a knockout match)

Somewhat analogous for YEC 11 fed vs YEC 23 djoko


fed of 03, 04, 06, 07 AND 10 YEC would go 10-0 vs djoko of YEC 23 if they were all knockout matches. 9-1 if RR matches.

 

[Hitman]

and?
still tougher than the everyone except Sinner in YEC 23.
and Cilic actually played djoko closest in YEC 18 before the final and the first set was ridiculously high level tennis.



and how does Turin being faster help djokovic vs federer?

alcaraz was playing very well? LOL! he was below par indoors as he has been many times.

sinner was also meh in the final

@ bold part: why not? because its inconvenient for you? djokovic was even more of an animal for YEC 2018 till zverev shut him out in the final till 4 all and then djokovic wilted.

it'd be as bad or more likely worse for djoko of YEC 23.

nadal was also an animal in AO 19 QF and SF crushing both his opponents. we all saw what happened in the final.


fed of 03, 04, 06, 07 AND 10 YEC would go 10-0 vs djoko of YEC 23 if they were all knockout matches. 9-1 if RR matches.

I don't think what happened in YEC 2018 matters here. Djokovic played a lot better against much tougher competition and completely outplayed both Sinner and Alcaraz. Djokovic was playing some of his best ever indoor tennis in those last two matches. As clutch as it gets. I don't agree with your evaluation of what is meh here.

I still maintain it is 5-5 against the 2011.

The earlier versions of Federer will for sure win more, I don't agree with the 2010 version either.

 

[abmk]

I don't think what happened in YEC 2018 matters here. Djokovic played a lot better against much tougher competition and completely outplayed both Sinner and Alcaraz. Djokovic was playing some of his best ever indoor tennis in those last two matches. As clutch as it gets. I don't agree with your evaluation of what is meh here.

I still maintain it is 5-5 against the 2011.

The earlier versions of Federer will for sure win more, I don't agree with the 2010 version either.

That bold part is a ludicrous joke. Djoko was playing significantly better in YEC 18 before the final than in YEC 23.

cilic was playing way better in YEC 18 than Alcaraz in YEC 23 semi and was better than Sinner in YEC 23 final.
what exactly has alcaraz even done on indoor HC to be a threat?

some of djokovic's best ever indoor tennis? not even remotely close.

oh and djokovic doesn't stand a chance vs fed of YEC 10 either. 1 match tops out of 10.

a seriously pathetically sad attempt to revise YEC 2018 and prop up djoko of YEC 23 just because djoko won.

 

[RS]

Fed Wim 12 vs Djokovic Wim 18 10 match series?

This is addressed to you Hitman as well.

 

[Hitman]

I call utter and complete BS on this.

cilic was playing way better in YEC 18 than Alcaraz in YEC 23 semi and was better than Sinner in YEC 23 final.
what exactly has alcaraz even done on indoor HC to be a threat?

some of djokovic's best ever indoor tennis? not even remotely close.

oh and djokovic doesn't stand a chance vs fed of YEC 10 either. 1 match tops out of 10.

done here.

Honestly, I don't care what you call it. You are just giving me your opinion which I don't agree with.

Yeah, this is just meh tennis. OK, whatever you say.

As for last bit, of course he doesn't....

done here also.

 

[Djokovic2011]

That bold part is a ludicrous joke. Djoko was playing significantly better in YEC 18 before the final than in YEC 23.

cilic was playing way better in YEC 18 than Alcaraz in YEC 23 semi and was better than Sinner in YEC 23 final.
what exactly has alcaraz even done on indoor HC to be a threat?

some of djokovic's best ever indoor tennis? not even remotely close.

oh and djokovic doesn't stand a chance vs fed of YEC 10 either. 1 match tops out of 10.

a seriously pathetically sad attempt to revise YEC 2018 and prop up djoko of YEC 23 just because djoko won.

Out of interest what do you think are some of the best matches Djokovic has played indoors?

 

[Djokovic2011]

Honestly, I don't care what you call it. You are just giving me your opinion which I don't agree with.

Yeah, this is just meh tennis. OK, whatever you say.

As for last bit, of course he doesn't....

done here also.

Seriously, Djokovic's ballstriking and precision were so sweet in those last two matches of the 23 WTF. How anyone can call that meh tennis is completely beyond me, if anything it was an absolute pleasure to watch.

 

[abmk]

Out of interest what do you think are some of the best matches Djokovic has played indoors?

2008 YEC F vs davy
2012 YEC F vs fed
2013 YEC SF vs wawa, F vs nadal
2014 YEC RR matches
2015 YEC SF vs nadal, f vs federer, RR vs nishi
2018 YEC RR matches, SF vs anderson

2009 Paris SF vs nadal
2014 Paris almost every match
2015 Paris final vs Murray and couple of matches before

shoutout to Basel 09 final vs fed for doing it in fed's backyard

 

[abmk]

Seriously, Djokovic's ballstriking and precision were so sweet in those last two matches of the 23 WTF. How anyone can call that meh tennis is completely beyond me, if anything it was an absolute pleasure to watch.

you do realise there is an another player across the net who also influences quality of the match?

no one is saying djokovic's performance was meh. just the matches (semi even more so)

 

[Djokovic2011]

2008 YEC F vs davy
2012 YEC F vs fed
2013 YEC SF vs wawa, F vs nadal
2014 YEC RR matches
2015 YEC SF vs nadal, f vs federer, RR vs nishi
2018 YEC RR matches, SF vs anderson

2009 Paris SF vs nadal
2014 Paris almost every match
2015 Paris final vs Murray and couple of matches before

shoutout to Basel 09 final vs fed for doing it in fed's backyard

I wasn't expecting you to name so many.

 

[abmk]

I wasn't expecting you to name so many.

Like I said, quality of tennis matters to me.

 

[Djokovic2011]

you do realise there is an another player across the net who also influences quality of the match?

no one is saying djokovic's performance was meh. just the matches (semi even more so)

I get that but watching those matches it honestly felt to me like Alcaraz and Sinner really weren't playing badly at all but Djokovic simply suffocated them with depth and aggression and was constantly trying to dictate thus not allowing them to play the way they wanted. I'm pretty certain against any other player they would've looked a lot better but sometimes you can only play as well as your opponent allows you.

 

[Incognito]

Ferrer's game plays right into Federer's its quite simple. That is like Djokovic taking out someone like Cilic.

As I said, the win over Nadal was very impressive, the others ones he had to battle out a few tie breaks, I mean Fish was pushing him hard from what I remember.

Djokovic dominating YEC 18 doesn't change anything, 2023 happened in Turin under very different conditions at altitude, the ball was moving through the court a lot more. Both Alcaraz and Sinner were playing very well, especially Sinner. Rune also was playing very solid, wasn't easy for Djokovic or Sinner to beat him.

Djokovic just became another animal in the semi and the final, it is one of his most impressive wins at YEC.

I do think it would be a battle on equal footing, 5-5 seems reasonable for me.

Federer from 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007, yes I would certainly give them more wins against Djokovic 2023, but not the other winning versions.

Are you sure Fed 2011 was better physically than djoke 2023? Djoke doesn’t have chronic back and knee problems. I seriously doubt that.

 

[NoleFam]

Honestly, I don't care what you call it. You are just giving me your opinion which I don't agree with.

Yeah, this is just meh tennis. OK, whatever you say.

As for last bit, of course he doesn't....

done here also.

Dude says Djokovic vultured the ATP Finals in 2023 when the ATP's source, tennisinsights, rated it as the best performance in any match of any player that year. The meltdown in here from him is hilarious.

Djokovic Defeats Sinner To Win Record Seventh Nitto ATP Finals Title | ATP Tour | Tennis

Novak Djokovic played a brilliant final to defeat Jannik Sinner and break a tie with Roger Federer for most Nitto ATP Finals titles.

www.atptour.com

 

[RS]

 

[RS]

Dude says Djokovic vultured the ATP Finals in 2023 when the ATP's source, tennisinsights, rated it as the best performance in any match of any player that year. The meltdown in here from him is hilarious.

Djokovic Defeats Sinner To Win Record Seventh Nitto ATP Finals Title | ATP Tour | Tennis

Novak Djokovic played a brilliant final to defeat Jannik Sinner and break a tie with Roger Federer for most Nitto ATP Finals titles.

www.atptour.com

Djokovic YEC 23 vs Fed YEC 11?

 

[NoleFam]

Djokovic YEC 23 vs Fed YEC 11?

I didn't see 2011 YEC.

 

[RS]

I didn't see 2011 YEC.

Never mind then.

 

[canta_Brian]

I get that but watching those matches it honestly felt to me like Alcaraz and Sinner really weren't playing badly at all but Djokovic simply suffocated them with depth and aggression and was constantly trying to dictate thus not allowing them to play the way they wanted. I'm pretty certain against any other player they would've looked a lot better but sometimes you can only play as well as your opponent allows you.

You can have stats, or you can have eye test.

You can’t have both.

 

[Turning Pro]

Berrettini, Kyrgios, Edmund, De Minaur, Shelton, Paul, Rublev, Kokkinakis, Norrie, Kecmanović, Garin, Kudla, Fucsovics, Nishioka, Struff, Couacaud, Djere, Gojo, Zapata, Schwartzman, Raonic, Carballés, Couacaud, Khachanov, Kovacevic, Varillas, A.Muller.

ALL TIME GREATS OF THE GAME.

2020-2023 Competition.

Plus the bonus of Injured, way post prime, not playing much and/or nearly retired Fed, Nadal, Murray and Wawrinka.

What's it tell us?


These were the player Djokovic beat.

Also baby Alcaraz and Pre-Prime sinner before he won the Davis Cup 2023 to get monkey off his back and then proceed to Destroy him at the Ao2024 against the player who came off oneof his best years ever with 3 slams and YEC.

 

[Third Serve]

Ferrer's game plays right into Federer's its quite simple. That is like Djokovic taking out someone like Cilic.

As I said, the win over Nadal was very impressive, the others ones he had to battle out a few tie breaks, I mean Fish was pushing him hard from what I remember.

Djokovic dominating YEC 18 doesn't change anything, 2023 happened in Turin under very different conditions at altitude, the ball was moving through the court a lot more. Both Alcaraz and Sinner were playing very well, especially Sinner. Rune also was playing very solid, wasn't easy for Djokovic or Sinner to beat him.

Djokovic just became another animal in the semi and the final, it is one of his most impressive wins at YEC.

I do think it would be a battle on equal footing, 5-5 seems reasonable for me.

Federer from 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007, yes I would certainly give them more wins against Djokovic 2023, but not the other winning versions.

Agree that 2023 was very impressive. However I’d also give Fed 2010 the edge. He was very good in that final against Nadal who for once actually brought it indoors.

2011 is close. I think the surface being incredibly slow that year hurts the final on rewatch but Fed was very solid in most departments (though returning could use a little work) and he was tested more than Djokovic was in those last couple of matches.

 

[Hitman]

Agree that 2023 was very impressive. However I’d also give Fed 2010 the edge. He was very good in that final against Nadal who for once actually brought it indoors.

2011 is close. I think the surface being incredibly slow that year hurts the final on rewatch but Fed was very solid in most departments (though returning could use a little work) and he was tested more than Djokovic was in those last couple of matches.

Fair enough.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Indeed, which is why nearly everyone calls Margaret Court who holds virtually every womens statistical record; in her case both in singles and even almost all combined singles + doubles ones, the female tennis GOAT. Oh wait.

That has reasons beside tennis though. Otherwise the same standards should be put on Laver which isn’t done.

 

[roysid]

The entire decade of 2010-2019 i.e 40 slams has been won by guys born in 80s. Which should have been the peak years of 90s born guys.
The 90s born guys viz. Meddy, thiem, zverev, dimi, tipsy are a much weaker batch compared to previous batch or with next batch i.e sinner, alcaraz etc