Alcaraz... Be careful before jumping on his bandwagon...

beard

Legend
I mean, he is good, he plays aggressive, he has big heart, he is die hard type of player...

But, if you expect to see him playing this way every match, and winning most of the matches, you are WRONG....
- He can't play every match with this kind of aggressiveness, it's just non-sustainable. This was kinda Wawa blowing ball hard, and even Wawa showed up occasionally... Rosol Wimbledon is another example...
- USO plays very fast, so he could pass Tsi so often... Not many courts play so fast nowadays...
- He has not that good serve... HUGE problem for him... Not many free points, even on this fast court... In modern tennis, that is great back off...
- He has mediocre return... He struggled every time when Tsi had decent first serve percentages... Actually he was blown away in that periods and broke Tsi only when he served bad, bad, bad...

So, be prepared Alcaraz to do well this tourney or in best short period of time and to then to mostly "wanish"...
Off course, he is young, he will certainly advance in his game, but I predict him the fate of most young players here on TTW... HIPE to LostGen talk...
And to end with... I hope I am wrong... Like him a lot, he reminds me even with play style to young Djokovic, maybe he will develop same as Nole...
 

Dominic & Andrey

Hall of Fame
I mean, he is good, he plays aggressive, he has big heart, he is die hard type of player...

But, if you expect to see him playing this way every match, and winning most of the matches, you are WRONG....
- He can't play every match with this kind of aggressiveness, it's just non-sustainable. This was kinda Wawa blowing ball hard, and even Wawa showed up occasionally... Rosol Wimbledon is another example...
- USO plays very fast, so he could pass Tsi so often... Not many courts play so fast nowadays...
- He has not that good serve... HUGE problem for him... Not many free points, even on this fast court... In modern tennis, that is great back off...
- He has mediocre return... He struggled every time when Tsi had decent first serve percentages... Actually he was blown away in that periods and broke Tsi only when he served bad, bad, bad...

So, be prepared Alcaraz to do well this tourney or in best short period of time and to then to mostly "wanish"...
Off course, he is young, he will certainly advance in his game, but I predict him the fate of most young players here on TTW... HIPE to LostGen talk...
And to end with... I hope I am wrong... Like him a lot, he reminds me even with play style to young Djokovic, maybe he will develop same as Nole...
Mediocre return, seriously ? He returned a lot of great first serves, it's just that at a point of the match Tsitsipas was serving extremely well.
And of course Alcaraz can still improve, but the thing is he is improving incredibly fast, six months ago he was not even close to the level he is at now.

My eye test tells me that this kid played at a top 5 level (not the entire match though) to beat the #3 (who was playing his A game, I think). That's enough for jumping in the bandwagon for me. He is 18 !!
 

NAS

Hall of Fame
Mediocre return, seriously ? He returned a lot of great first serves, it's just that at a point of the match Tsitsipas was serving extremely well.
And of course Alcaraz can still improve, but the thing is he is improving incredibly fast, six months ago he was not even close to the level he is at now.

My eye test tells me that this kid played at a top 5 level (not the entire match though) to beat the #3 (who was playing his A game, I think). That's enough for jumping in the bandwagon for me. He is 18 !!
Do you really think A top 3 who lost set from double break up, was playing his A game on fast court, is known for bigger service and big fh
 

DMP

Professional
One reason for getting on the bandwagon - he is 1.85m (6'1").

Right in the height sweet spot.
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
This is why we needed fast courts. It brings the young talented ones to the fore.
I’m ok if he vanishes for a bit. I’m sure he’ll be back. Maybe the AO? That’s sometimes quick.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
LOL! His effort has been sustainable enough to reach Live Race #30 and is ready to climb to #22 or higher if he isn’t upset by qualifier Gojowczyk. His level has been strong enough to win an ATP250 title and win at least one match at all 4 slams.

It’s been a very solid year for anyone, let alone a kid who turned 18 in May. He has competed very well in all but three of his matches, being blown out by Zed in Acapulco, Nadal in Madrid and Med at Wimby. 52 matches at all levels and only three duds. Certainly not a one-match “bandwagon” if you care to pay attention like some of have been doing.

Thanks for sharing, OP!
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
Alcaraz... Be careful before jumping on his bandwagon...
LOL! His effort has been sustainable enough to reach Live Race #30 and is ready to climb to #22 or higher if he isn’t upset by qualifier Gojowczyk. His level has been strong enough to win an ATP250 title and win at least one match at all 4 slams.

It’s been a very solid year for anyone, let alone a kid who turned 18 in May. He has competed very well in all but three of his matches, being blown out by Zed in Acapulco, Nadal in Madrid and Med at Wimby. 52 matches at all levels and only three duds. Certainly not a one-match “bandwagon” if you care to pay attention like some of have been doing.

Thanks for sharing, OP!
so it's more like...

:unsure:
 

Rozroz

G.O.A.T.
Do you really think A top 3 who lost set from double break up, was playing his A game on fast court, is known for bigger service and big fh
didn't seem so..
Tsitsipas needed some time to adjust but afterwards he played mostly at his top level and thrown the kitchen sink on him
but Alca always came up with one more shot.
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
yeah, I would’ve jumped on earlier this year but I’ve done that with some many others since Thiem many years ago.

if he wins a slam as a teen then I might jump on.
Agreed. I am kind of on the bandwagon, but sitting near the back, not too bothered if I have to jump off.
But if he wins a slam, I'm at the front.
Kind of like with del Potro.
 

Jonesy

Hall of Fame
Let's wait and see, 18 is too soon to reach any conclusion. But don't be surprised if he is called here next gen mug in the following years because he can't beat Djokovic in a slam.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I mean, he is good, he plays aggressive, he has big heart, he is die hard type of player...

But, if you expect to see him playing this way every match, and winning most of the matches, you are WRONG....
- He can't play every match with this kind of aggressiveness, it's just non-sustainable. This was kinda Wawa blowing ball hard, and even Wawa showed up occasionally... Rosol Wimbledon is another example...
- USO plays very fast, so he could pass Tsi so often... Not many courts play so fast nowadays...
- He has not that good serve... HUGE problem for him... Not many free points, even on this fast court... In modern tennis, that is great back off...
- He has mediocre return... He struggled every time when Tsi had decent first serve percentages... Actually he was blown away in that periods and broke Tsi only when he served bad, bad, bad...

So, be prepared Alcaraz to do well this tourney or in best short period of time and to then to mostly "wanish"...
Off course, he is young, he will certainly advance in his game, but I predict him the fate of most young players here on TTW... HIPE to LostGen talk...
And to end with... I hope I am wrong... Like him a lot, he reminds me even with play style to young Djokovic, maybe he will develop same as Nole...
Yes, we know the entire ATP consists of losers, thanks for admitting it :D
 

Vamos Rafa Nadal

Hall of Fame
Where the OP gets it wrong is that what is important is that this a great START to a long amazing career. Of course he's going to have his ups and downs as he improves his game! It can always go either way, of course, but I have faith in Carlos! I am EXCITED about this player and even if he loses to Gojo on Sunday I will continue to be excited - winning against the #3 player in the world is a huge achievement at 18 years of age, unseeded and #55. He could be in the top 20 by the end of 2021, this is a HUGE achievement!
 

beard

Legend
Yes, we know the entire ATP consists of losers, thanks for admitting it :D
There is difference between being good and over hyped...

And please, don't start lost gen whining rubbish that dominates this forum... You have enough threads to cry...
 

beard

Legend
Where the OP gets it wrong is that what is important is that this a great START to a long amazing career. Of course he's going to have his ups and downs as he improves his game! It can always go either way, of course, but I have faith in Carlos! I am EXCITED about this player and even if he loses to Gojo on Sunday I will continue to be excited - winning against the #3 player in the world is a huge achievement at 18 years of age, unseeded and #55. He could be in the top 20 by the end of 2021, this is a HUGE achievement!
Bolded word is a problem... We can't say it will be amazing... That's what this thread is about... I just say we must wait some more time and see if it will be amazing... I certainly hope it will...
 
D

Deleted member 770948

Guest
I think Zverev and Sinner will dominate the future.
Alcaraz lacks the speed of Nadal, and lacks the reach of Djokovic.
Young Nadal was like a video game, way faster than Alcaraz, and Djokovic has some gymnastic flexibility that nobody else has.
Great shot-making, but his game requires too much risk, whereas Zverev and Sinner can rally powerfully without taking risk.
And you will have to be as good as Nadal and Djokovic if you want to beat prime Zverev/Sinner regularly.
Alcaraz will win slams, but not as many as Zverev/Sinner.
 
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Vamos Rafa Nadal

Hall of Fame
It's foolish to think any of the players are going to have the careers that the big 3 have had - this is a once in our lifetime achievement, with 3 players all winning 20 Grand Slams during the same era. Someone can have an amazing career and not reach those particular heights because it is unlikely that any of these players will do as well as those three players.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
There is difference between being good and over hyped...

And please, don't start lost gen whining rubbish that dominates this forum... You have enough threads to cry...
If you paid attention for more than slam time you would realize this kid has worked hard to get to a match he played and beat a #3 seed on a very big stage. He started in January by qualifying for AO, won a round there, qualified for RG, won two rounds there, got a WC to Wimby, won a round there, then won an ATP250 title on clay before returning to HCs and winning 3 times at USO. He’s #30 in Live Race and you gotta play and win a lot of matches to rise to that level. This didn’t happen overnight.
 

ibbi

Legend
All of the beautiful, huge tennis that he played is less important than the way he recovered in the third and dug it out after his level having come down in the second from where it started, coughing up that break lead in the second and giving that up, and then being a double break down in the third. That takes crazy resilience between the ears. As does hanging in the fifth after getting bagelled, and looking like he was physically waning on serve early in it. Forget all his shots, that was a crazy display of mental strength.

Also, for a player whose serve is thought of as a weakness to have come up big on serve as much as he did (second serve ace down the T on break point, most impressive because... HE HASN'T HIT A SINGLE SECOND SERVE DOWN THE T ALL SEASON!) was amazing. As was a player whose forehand is his overwhelming best shot hitting so strong on his backhand side that people here think he's like Djokovic. These are all evidence of big game nerve, big game smarts, and there are dudes a decade his senior who still haven't gotten that down. You can't really teach it, certainly not without playing many, many matches like this.

Also, if you doubt him, and if you can (and if you want to :-D) go and watch his first round against Norrie. That's a guy who is 13 in the race this year, and Alcaraz absolutely owned him. Yes, it could just be a good week, and yes he could absolutely crash hard just tomorrow, but there's enough evidence to suggest he's got a very bright future, because it isn't just good tennis, but good mentality.
 

ibbi

Legend
LOL! His effort has been sustainable enough to reach Live Race #30 and is ready to climb to #22 or higher if he isn’t upset by qualifier Gojowczyk. His level has been strong enough to win an ATP250 title and win at least one match at all 4 slams.

It’s been a very solid year for anyone, let alone a kid who turned 18 in May. He has competed very well in all but three of his matches, being blown out by Zed in Acapulco, Nadal in Madrid and Med at Wimby. 52 matches at all levels and only three duds. Certainly not a one-match “bandwagon” if you care to pay attention like some of have been doing.

Thanks for sharing, OP!
Right! Just because people weren't paying attention prior to yesterday doesn't mean he just sprung out of a hole in the ground.
 

accidental

Hall of Fame
I don’t think you need to worry about the ‘fast courts’ helping him too much, since he won an ATP clay court title about 3 weeks ago
 

skip1969

G.O.A.T.
Playing aggressively is, BY DEFAULT, riskier and more prone to ups and downs (in a match and in a career). Playing like a freaking backboard a la Nadal/Djokovic is what the tour has become for years now. That's what this sport has devolved into. And many fans (myself included) are dying for players who DON'T play that way. Who don't stand 12 feet behind the baseline. Who don't want to hit 20-shot rally after 20-shot rally for four hours. Who do want to attack. Who aren't afraid of the net . . .

His match was a microcosm of that playing style. There were unbelievable runs where he looked unstoppable, and there were times when he couldn't stop the rot. I'm cool with that. I'm sick of grinders. The tour is 95% grinders. It's dull as hell.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
Have many of us lost the capacity to appreciate the present?
Is everything about being an ATG or a GOAT candidate?
Yesterday, Alcaraz defeated the (worthy) #3 in the world, doing it in quite dramatic fashion.
He started the year as a 17-year-old and has won at least one match in each of the four slams and has won 7 of his first 10 matches at slams.
That, alone, is quite rare!

I don't know what his future holds -- it looks very bright -- but considering his age, who else has done this since Becker and Chang - 1985 and 1988?
After turning 17. Rafa (spanning 2003 and 2004) also won matches at each of the four slams he played, winning 6 of his first 10 matches.
By comparison, in 2005 (ages 17 into 18), Novak lost his first slam match (at the AO, where he would get to be pretty good, I'd say) and won 5 of his first 9.
Enjoy the present -- he's a joy to watch play.
 
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MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
There is difference between being good and over hyped...

And please, don't start lost gen whining rubbish that dominates this forum... You have enough threads to cry...
Don't backtrack bestie :cool: anyone who we think will achieve ANYTHING is over hyped and we know why. Bc they won't.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
He's well developed for a teenager very strong through the legs/core, I recall Nadal was the same when young.
It was good seeing him aggressively set up on the baseline as often as he could
 
I mean, he is good, he plays aggressive, he has big heart, he is die hard type of player...

But, if you expect to see him playing this way every match, and winning most of the matches, you are WRONG....
- He can't play every match with this kind of aggressiveness, it's just non-sustainable. This was kinda Wawa blowing ball hard, and even Wawa showed up occasionally... Rosol Wimbledon is another example...
- USO plays very fast, so he could pass Tsi so often... Not many courts play so fast nowadays...
- He has not that good serve... HUGE problem for him... Not many free points, even on this fast court... In modern tennis, that is great back off...
- He has mediocre return... He struggled every time when Tsi had decent first serve percentages... Actually he was blown away in that periods and broke Tsi only when he served bad, bad, bad...

So, be prepared Alcaraz to do well this tourney or in best short period of time and to then to mostly "wanish"...
Off course, he is young, he will certainly advance in his game, but I predict him the fate of most young players here on TTW... HIPE to LostGen talk...
And to end with... I hope I am wrong... Like him a lot, he reminds me even with play style to young Djokovic, maybe he will develop same as Nole...
His movement is too fluid, like Michael Jordan. He will be ranked number 1.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
Have many of us lost the capacity to appreciate the present?
Is everything about about being an ATG or a GOAT candidate?
Yesterday, Alcaraz defeated the (worthy) #3 in the world, doing it in quite dramatic fashion.
He started the year as a 17-year-old and has won at least one match in each of the four slams and has won 7 of his first 10 matches at slams.
That, alone, is quite rare!

I don't know what his future holds -- it looks very bright -- but considering his age, who else has done this since Becker and Chang - 1985 and 1988?
After turning 17. Rafa (spanning 2003 and 2004) also won matches at each of the four slams he played, winning 7 of his first 10 matches.
By comparison, in 2005 (ages 17 into 18), Novak lost his first slam match (at the AO, where he would get to be pretty good, I'd say) and won 5 of his first 9.
Enjoy the present -- he's a joy to watch play.
Excellent Post, well put!
 

beard

Legend
If you paid attention for more than slam time you would realize this kid has worked hard to get to a match he played and beat a #3 seed on a very big stage. He started in January by qualifying for AO, won a round there, qualified for RG, won two rounds there, got a WC to Wimby, won a round there, then won an ATP250 title on clay before returning to HCs and winning 3 times at USO. He’s #30 in Live Race and you gotta play and win a lot of matches to rise to that level. This didn’t happen overnight.
His best win this year, before Tsi, was no14 Gofin, and we know in what state is Gofins tennis, he is now no30...
Others are Ruud (26) on clay, Mannarino (34), Basilashvilli (31), Krajinovic (34), Fucsovic (42)... That's all his top 50 wins...

I mean, not bad, but not that impressive at all... He is 18-13 this year, before USO...
Last tournament, he lost to ATP number 90 Ymer...

Let's not make lion of young cat... Not yet...
I mean, there are about 20 young players that are better than him this year (yes, he is younger, but that is not evidence he will be better in the future)...
 

beard

Legend
Don't backtrack bestie :cool: anyone who we think will achieve ANYTHING is over hyped and we know why. Bc they won't.
That's true, some fan bases expect a new Fed, Nole or Rafa to emerge NOW (to save their heroes records), while there wasn't such player in tennis history...
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
That's true, some fan bases expect a new Fed, Nole or Rafa to emerge NOW (to save their heroes records), while there wasn't such player in tennis history...
Or we just want someone to support that can make more than 2 slam semis in their career. Every sport is supposed to keep rolling and we keep hearing tennis will move on...... we are drying up waiting, it's getting ridiculous.
 

beard

Legend
Or we just want someone to support that can make more than 2 slam semis in their career. Every sport is supposed to keep rolling and we keep hearing tennis will move on...... we are drying up waiting, it's getting ridiculous.
Understand, but would you think do if Rafavis top dog... Lol... No...
I will cheer for others as soon as Novak is gone... Now let us be selfish as Fed and Rafa fans were...
 
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