ibbi

G.O.A.T.
I'm going to push back a bit here and say Gasquet was way behind Alcaraz at the same age in terms of what he had done.

The year Gasman turned 19 he won 1 title (Nottingham, defeated #61, 274, 37, 30, #40 max Mirny in final).
- Had a great Monte Carlo run (beat Davydenko #15, Fed #1, and pushed rafa in a close 3 sets semi off the back of 2 challenger titles.
- Didn't crack an Elo of 2000 til after his 119th birthday.

He basically had a great week. The rest of his year he only beat 2 top 20 guys (Hbarty #18, and Ljubicic #19) and went 31-11. We saw his ceiling but his range was/is wide.

Alcaraz is 16-2 and it just turned to APRIL. In those 16 wins, he's only dropped a set in 3 of them. The guy is dominating, already 5 top-20 wins (Berrettini #6, RBA #15 SMOKED, #12 Norrie, #14 Schwartzman, #5 Tsitsipas, . Elo already about to cross 2100. The two matches he lost (Berrettini in 5, Nadal in 3) where very close and he had his chances. He's basically been very very hard to stop.

At the same age, Nadal's elo was only MARGINALLY above Alcaraz. Alcaraz is actually tracking remarkably close to nadal, and better than the other big 3/nextgen guys.
https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F396c1ffa-4cc7-4304-8db7-a597305aa06b_1348x418.png

This is from last week, so I expect it to be higher when updated in a day or two.

What's more, Gasquet always had clear limitations in his game with his :

forehand (I actually think his early forehand was technically a lot better, but it still wasn't great).
movement. No where near Alcaraz who is close to Rafa
Court craft. Alcaraz has the drop shot, the volley, the slice. You can see he actually has a really good grasp of nearly every facet, which is freakin ridiculous to be frank.
I'm not comparing who has done more, just that their hype was based more on how they play than stuff they've won. You're definitely right that Alcaraz has more going for him at this stage.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Alcaraz needs to win Miami to justify the hype. No Big 3 and no Little 3 either. All he has to do is beat Hurkacz and Ruud/Cerundulo.

We all know how it went last year for Sinner who was also receiving tons of hype.
 

MadariKatu

Hall of Fame
Is anyone really saying that 2022 Alcaraz is better than 2005 Nadal?
It is true though that he made the qf of the last USO, reaching that round in any slam at an earlier age. He made the semis of a masters1000 in IW... don't know if that was younger than Nadal's first (which was in Miami, where he reached his first masters final), but the difference should be days.

Certainly a young talent, looks like a future ATG, but I don't think I'll ever see a player like the big3 in the rest of my lifetime (I'm younger than Fed, older than Nadal).

Obviously Nadal was better at his age, but the fact that SOME achievements have been reached at the same age or earlier, turns heads. Plus the matches have been very exciting. Add to that the lack of ability by the next gen to dethrone Nadal and Djokovic, and that's where they hype is coming from.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
Alcaraz needs to win Miami to justify the hype. No Big 3 and no Little 3 either. All he has to do is beat Hurkacz and Ruud/Cerundulo.

We all know how it went last year for Sinner who was also receiving tons of hype.

Alcaraz is a more complete player than Sinner with more tools
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bud

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
I'm not comparing who has done more, just that their hype was based more on how they play than stuff they've won. You're definitely right that Alcaraz has more going for him (than Gasquet) at this stage.
If that isn't the understatement of the decade.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Let's first define "hype" because I doubt we all have the same notion of what it means.

It is NORMAL to discuss up-and-coming talent, it happened in previous eras too. (I mean recent eras not the Five Musketeers or whatever they were called.)

HYPE would be to declare them ATGs and form 10000000 fan clubs with a few months of their first title.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Let's first define "hype" because I doubt we all have the same notion of what it means.

It is NORMAL to discuss up-and-coming talent, it happened in previous eras too. (I mean recent eras not the Five Musketeers or whatever they were called.)

HYPE would be to declare them ATGs and form 10000000 fan clubs with a few months of their first title.
At this point, hyping a player means getting excited for the potential of someone to be the next ATG and to dethrone old Djokodal.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
It's a tough question because obviously as media, social media, internet, etc. has grown and changed, the "hype machine" has changed. Alcaraz is very good, no doubt. But the main basis of his hype seems to be that we really are at the end of the Big 3 era and someone has to win next - and with his game and energy, he's being touted as that guy, or at least one of those guys. He really doesn't have an early big win to announce his arrival - like Fed over Sampras at Wimbledon, or simply winning a Masters or Slam.

Hype builds and morphs, at times ebbs up and down. Agassi is another good case study in the history of hype.
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
It's a tough question because obviously as media, social media, internet, etc. has grown and changed, the "hype machine" has changed. Alcaraz is very good, no doubt. But the main basis of his hype seems to be that we really are at the end of the Big 3 era and someone has to win next - and with his game and energy, he's being touted as that guy, or at least one of those guys. He really doesn't have an early big win to announce his arrival - like Fed over Sampras at Wimbledon, or simply winning a Masters or Slam.

Hype builds and morphs, at times ebbs up and down. Agassi is another good case study in the history of hype.
Venus Williams was in tennis magazines when she was 11, roughly around 1991/1992 already.

Serena played second fiddle in that hype train until 1999 or so.

Tommy Haas was HEAVILY hyped by Bolletierri as the guy who'd be better than Agassi.

Hingis was hyped as a child, then stormed in her first WTA event, shocked at the age of 14 by making mince-meat of seasoned pros.

Sampras kinda went under the radar a bit until he trashed Agassi USO90.
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Venus Williams was in tennis magazines when she was 11, roughly around 1991/1992 already.

Serena played second fiddle in that hype train until 1999 or so.

Tommy Haas was HEAVILY hyped by Bolletierri as the guy who'd be better than Agassi.

Hingis was hyped as a child, then stormed in her first WTA event, shocked at the age of 14 by making mince-meat of seasoned pros.

Sampras kinda went under the radar a bit until he trashed Agassi USO90.

Great list.

Let's not forget Capriati and Seles. Graf?

I was too young to remember the Graf hype, but it seems that she made due on her promise so early that the "hype" period didn't last long since it simply became reality. I remember a VERY young Seles in Tennis Magazine being hyped as the possible next phenom. And she made due on that promise pretty early, so, like Graf, hype gave way to reality pretty quick.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Personally, I am excited to see his progression. I have posted for a while not, I have the same kind of excitement I had watching a young Fed or Nadal starting, seeing that little extra athleticism, talent, and sump'in sump'in with them I see in Alcaraz. Of course, with a measured cup of reality that this is his breakout year and wheels come off and go on just as quick. But, I like his team behind him that will help him manage himself and things around him. And the way he carries himself on court is examplary so far.

Yeah...for once I think there should be focus on him.

Right now tennis is Alcaraz and Iga, and I like it!
 

UnderratedSlam

G.O.A.T.
Great list.

Let's not forget Capriati and Seles. Graf?

I was too young to remember the Graf hype, but it seems that she made due on her promise so early that the "hype" period didn't last long since it simply became reality. I remember a VERY young Seles in Tennis Magazine being hyped as the possible next phenom. And she made due on that promise pretty early, so, like Graf, hype gave way to reality pretty quick.
Age has shifted upwards since then, which is why fans get more impatient, but success now seems to come late (or never), at least on the men's side.
 
D

Deleted member 762343

Guest
True.. There was a lot of hype surrounding Nadal pretty early. But the way Federer was dominating the field back then, many doubted if Rafa could get past Federer and win slams (especially in HC and Grass).
The amazing part was that he dominated the head to head against Fed from the start and that really shocked the tennis world.

I hope Alcaraz can do something similar with Novak. Beat him at slams and dominate the head to head right away. That will make a statement.

Dominating the H2H against Oldovic right away wouldn't be like dominating the H2H against Peakerer from the start.

The kid is really good and a ton of fun to watch, but I don’t expect him to have a Big 3 like career. I don’t expect we’ll see that type of career happening for a long time. He has a moar complete game than all the Next Gen players and seems to have way moar focus on tennis than they do.

As for the hype he’s getting, a lot of that is due to the RAFA comparisons because he’s a fellow Spaniard. But for context RAFA beat Moya and the then defending RG champ Costa at just 16 years old. He beat Peakerer at 17 and a year later had the same Peakerer down 2-0 before he got screwed on a horrendous line call that would have brought up triple BP. And had the F taken place after 07 it actually would have been a straight sets win.

I say all that to say this, he’s probably the best talent/prospect we’ve seen in the last 3 generations of players (Lost Gen, Next Gen, and now Diamond Gen). He’s not a Big 3 talent, but IMO he is an actual ATG level talent.

The comparison isn't totally fair, as Nadal was extremely precocious even compared to Fedovic.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Aabye5

G.O.A.T.
I'd have zero problem with Hubert getting no "respect" - as long as he's piling up big trophies.

And I'm sure he'd sign up for that too, if given half a chance.

He'd be like Lendl... "Who cares, I'm winning." (Not a direct quote.)

Defending here would be amazing...the first of his generation. Come on, Hubi!
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
nadal himself said no one can stop alcaraz.....he is the real deal on clay and is one of the favourites at roland garros this year......someone should tell him to stop looking at his box after every damn point......rest all is fine with him, he's got a winner's attitude......
 

James P

G.O.A.T.
You mean...life before Fed?
I could handle it. I think there's quite a few people that think there must be one, two, three, four dominant players cleaning up the big titles. I actually find it interesting that it's getting wide open. Only question is, will Carlos and/or a few others shut that quite quickly and seamlessly from era to era?
 

phl92

Hall of Fame
Of course it is more a hope than anything else, but to be honest I think Alcaraz could not have chosen a better time to breakthrough. No Fedr anymore, Nadal probably longer injured and till late clay season not back, which leads to a probable not fully recovered RG, and Djokovic also most of the time not allowed to play, probably not on his highest peak form.
Having said all this, I think it is possible to repeat a 2005 season of Nadal in one way or the other, even though we all know it is very unlikely.
I rather hope Alcaraz stays fit and healthy and we get an exciting player for the next 15-20 years. If he keeps playing on this (or even lower level) he must end with grand slam wins. I am just interested how he switchs to clay and gras after competing on hard court on such a crazy level. (1 year ago I thought he is a full clay player, like Nadal more or less)
 

Darksong

Rookie
Watching the replay of their match at IW it is clear that without the gale force winds Rafa would have beaten Alcaraz in straight sets.
Is it, everyone says that Rafa is the best wind player in the world, so how do you arrive at that conclusion?
 

MadariKatu

Hall of Fame
Is it, everyone says that Rafa is the best wind player in the world, so how do you arrive at that conclusion?
Nadal struggled more with the wind, and from the 2, was the one showing some frustration regarding the gusts.
Also, it was during playwith strong wind that his rib broke and started feeling the pain.
 
As for Fed not putting the brakes on prime Novak, well yeah, Fed was in his mid 30's at that point. Nadal was in his mid to late 20's. Big difference.
You state this as if fed were at least 10 years their senior. Nadal and Novak are within 1 year of each other and 5 or 6 of fed. Chill with the hyperbole.
 

The Big Foe fan

Hall of Fame
It is annoying though to listen to commentators saying Alcaraz is even better than Nadal and Djoovic were at this stage. That is simply not true and casual tennis fans will take it as gospel truth.
Commentators were also hyping Hyeon Chung to be the 2011 Djokovic by the start of 2019 season.
So don't take them seriously.
With that being said, however, Alcaraz is the best teenage prodigee in last 17 years, as we've seen after Nadal's breakout year in 2005.
 
You state this as if fed were at least 10 years their senior. Nadal and Novak are within 1 year of each other and 5 or 6 of fed. Chill with the hyperbole.

You make it sound like 5 or 6 is nothing. In tennis, few ATG players have had their top two rivalries with players 4+ years younger than they were. It’s actually really only Connors (Lendl, JMac) and Federer.

Federer had young ATGs at his heels since 2005 (Nadal) and in 2007 he had two (#2 and #3 players in the world).
 

darthrafa

Hall of Fame
hype?
i would say ppl got excited to hv sthing other than the boring domknation of djoker and the failure of next gen
 
Top