Have "we" lost the capacity to just enjoy the game, and a very exciting young talent who has great court sense and competitive drive? Just enjoy watching him - what's not to like about Alcaraz?

"Well, he's no Rafa.". Yeah, he must suck if he's not arguably the best teen player of all-time who became (arguably) the best player of all-time.

Yes, we can all point to guys (and girls/women) who we predicted great things for, but they never fulfilled what we saw as their potential. So what...just enjoy what he brings to the court.
 
Have "we" lost the capacity to just enjoy the game, and a very exciting young talent who has great court sense and competitive drive? Just enjoy watching him - what's not to like about Alcaraz?

"Well, he's no Rafa.". Yeah, he must suck if he's not arguably the best teen player of all-time who became (arguably) the best player of all-time.

Yes, we can all point to guys (and girls/women) who we predicted great things for, but they never fulfilled what we saw as their potential. So what...just enjoy what he brings to the court.

Is it hard for you that other people might not enjoy what you do, or might see things in Alcaraz that you don't? I get you enjoy him but I don't think we need a hive mind re what we do and don't enjoy in tennis.
 
Is it hard for you that other people might not enjoy what you do, or might see things in Alcaraz that you don't? I get you enjoy him but I don't think we need a hive mind re what we do and don't enjoy in tennis.
I'm not arguing against that, nor would I ever use the term or want a "hive mind". Different preferences and opinions are great. It's just the prevailing mentality here and elsewhere of one having to be the greatest or an ATG or they stink.

I have no idea if he'll win 21 majors, 5 or none. Right now, I'm enjoying watching him play. That's all I'm suggesting.

Minutes after Emma Raducanu wins 3 qualies and 7 main draw matches without dropping a set to win the US Open - and does so with almost every positive personal attribute imaginable (intelligence, poise, grace) people are debating on the one hand, whether she will be the "goat" and conversely, whether she'll ever win anything again. She was 18...just enjoy the moment.

You don't have to like Alcaraz or Raducanu, but why the need among so many to overly hype or tear down.
 
I think the Alcaraz hype feels bigger than the Nadal hype because of:

1_ Social media. So many posts and retweets and highlight reels
2_ desperation for a new champ. It's been 20 years nearly since a genuine great great player comes through.

Nadal had a lot of hype even though there was no social media. This guy was doing amazing things at 16. Alcaraz is not as good as Nadal, but I've always maintained that counter=punchers peak earlier than attacking players, and Alcaraz certainly likes to attack. He already looks so comfortable slicing/volleying/stepping in and attacking the net. Djokovic peaked much later but ended up being a superior player to Nadal so it's fine for Rafa to be the benchmark for teen prodigies.

And Gasquet had A LOT of hype too. He beat Fed at 17 or 18 at a clay masters, can't remember exactly. But one thing that saddens me about Gasquet is he lost a lot of the aggression and flair he played with when he was young. He used to really go after his forehand and attack the points more (I guess a lot of teens do), but yeah ,Gasquet and Rafa were nearly on equal footing for a while on those early days when both were playing the WTF's in shanghai etc.
There was a distinct lack of enthusiasm for Rafa because everyone was so enamoured with Federer they just didn't want anyone spoiling his party. They hung on to the Federer is GOAT forever even though he could hardly buy a victory against Rafa.
 
Access to tennis media and social media is a massive driver behind the hype train - not just for Alcaraz, but for the rest of the crew too. Plenty of people have shown promise for a while and simply haven't sustained it - they either couldn't keep focus or their games got exposed.

You could argue that Alcaraz is developing the same rate as Nadal did IF he wins a Slam, a couple of Masters titles and a couple of other titles this year. But it's not a realistic expectation - comparisons with any of the Big 3 are impossible because their development trajectories were unique.
Game is very solid - certainly a product of its time and with good weapons, although lacking some flair perhaps
Let's revisit in another 12 months as he approaches 20 and see what else he adds to the trophy cabinet.

The biggest difference, for me, is that Alcaraz isnt having to topple anyone substantial in his runs.

The worlds best player isnt even playing in Miami, and he came up short against Nadal in IW.

Young Nadal was denied his Miami title by facing the best player in the world.

Its great for the kid if he wins ( and im hoping he does ), but if Nadals AO title is being scrutinized for Novak not playing, then every tournament is the same.
 
Commentators are beginning to say Alcaraz is better than Rafa & Novak at the same age. They can’t have been watching tennis then because he is nowhere near the 18 year old Rafa.

Rafa won 2 Masters at the age of 18 and a slam days after he turned 19. Alcaraz turns 19 in May. Let’s see what happens.

Is there one thing that you can concede where another player (or for that matter any other male) is better than Rafa?
 
I'm not arguing against that, nor would I ever use the term or want a "hive mind". Different preferences and opinions are great. It's just the prevailing mentality here and elsewhere of one having to be the greatest or an ATG or they stink.

I have no idea if he'll win 21 majors, 5 or none. Right now, I'm enjoying watching him play. That's all I'm suggesting.

Minutes after Emma Raducanu wins 3 qualies and 7 main draw matches without dropping a set to win the US Open - and does so with almost every positive personal attribute imaginable (intelligence, poise, grace) people are debating on the one hand, whether she will be the "goat" and conversely, whether she'll ever win anything again. She was 18...just enjoy the moment.

You don't have to like Alcaraz or Raducanu, but why the need among so many to overly hype or tear down.

That's great you enjoy him. Your suggestion that we all enjoy him is of course, just that, a suggestion. I think about 80% are with you on it.
 
The biggest difference, for me, is that Alcaraz isnt having to topple anyone substantial in his runs.

The worlds best player isnt even playing in Miami, and he came up short against Nadal in IW.

Young Nadal was denied his Miami title by facing the best player in the world.

Its great for the kid if he wins ( and im hoping he does ), but if Nadals AO title is being scrutinized for Novak not playing, then every tournament is the same.

Yep agree, not on par with Nadal obviously unless he does something hugely special - in any case hopefully he does win tomorrow.

Also Nadal's 2005 season itself would have been good enough to be World No. 1 in a lot of other years (had it not been for someone else being so dominant)
 
Wow: I guess reading comprehension is just not your thing.
Have a good day.

No, I can read. You can't bear to hear it, that's all.
Enjoy what you enjoy, and perhaps keep your 'suggestions' to yourself. I think everyone here is capable of enjoying things as they please.
Merci and farewell.
 
Commentators are beginning to say Alcaraz is better than Rafa & Novak at the same age. They can’t have been watching tennis then because he is nowhere near the 18 year old Rafa.

Rafa won 2 Masters at the age of 18 and a slam days after he turned 19. Alcaraz turns 19 in May. Let’s see what happens.

The tennis tour and media desperate need someone to take over the huge vacuum that the big 3 will leave behind. They will hype theflipping lights out of the first guy that shows a shadow of what the big 3 can do.

Enter Alcarazz

No objective tennis player would ever dare to say Alcaraz is better than Nadal at the same age of 18.

It’s all about $$$$.
 
5, 6, 7, whatever. Still a generation in tennis. Djokovic and Thiem are from separate generations for example.

But there are different ways to talk about a generation.

For example, Tsitsipas did not play in the first NextGen Finals, but he's of that generation.
 
How high do we rate:
  • Alcatraz' speed?
  • Alcatraz' ability to turn defense into offense?
  • Alcatraz' shot tolerance?
  • Alcatraz' return of serve?
Compared to say, Djokodal, at their respective best.

@Zoid @helterskelter and whoever else wants to chime in
 
How high do we rate:
  • Alcatraz' speed?
  • Alcatraz' ability to turn defense into offense?
  • Alcatraz' shot tolerance?
  • Alcatraz' return of serve?
Compared to say, Djokodal, at their respective best.

@Zoid @helterskelter and whoever else wants to chime in

I am on holiday and so on my phone so briefly: He is promising but has a long way to go to reach Djokovic or Nadal levels. Very good core groundstroke game. Some weaknesses in serve, return, shot tolerance, and over hitting.
 
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I wasn't around (at least not the tennis world) for the hype trains of Nadal, Gasquet, Djokovic, and Murray. Especially with Nadal, how does Alcaraz' hype compare to what they were receiving as youngsters?

By the way, I'm not implying it's deserved or undeserved, just comparing for those who have been around tennis that long.

I think it’s hard to surpass the hype of teen Nadal and Gasquet. I think they turned pro at 15 and were touted as prodigies. Gasquet was on the cover of a tennis magazine at age 9.

However, I think Alcaraz’s hype is comparable to that of Djokovic and Murray in that they were all around 18/19 when they started grabbing people’s attention.
 
I think Carlos will win Miami today, but in order to justify the hype train it's better to wait at least until the end of the clay season.

Comparing him to Rafa at the same age is impossible at the moment: on the one hand Rafa had an advantage of one month younger when the respective tournaments took place, on the other hand Rafa had to meet Roger who was #1 and winning left and right in 2005 while Carlos is only going to play Casper who has never made it to the top 5 and is obviously a couple of levels below Roger.
 
At least the kid brings massive variety to this super boring baseline game tennis has become. Hope he destroys the likes of medvedev , zverev and all the baseline campers with his S&V and dropshots.
 
It is not hype if it is true. If people are saying he will win 7-8 Slams, it is not hype in my opinion. Anything more than that is hype until he wins 5 Slams in the next five years.
 
Commentators are beginning to say Alcaraz is better than Rafa & Novak at the same age. They can’t have been watching tennis then because he is nowhere near the 18 year old Rafa.

Rafa won 2 Masters at the age of 18 and a slam days after he turned 19. Alcaraz turns 19 in May. Let’s see what happens.

Well, this is not 2004-07 anymore
 
Ruud doesnt seem to know what he is doing on the court. He doesnt have a strategy , yet such a one dimensional player reaches the miami final. Hope carlos and others to come will save our eyes and minds the following years.
 
-Alcaraz speed? Faster than Novak, maybe Rafa speed. Hard to compare. I'd say pure line speed Rafa and Alcaraz are better than Djokovic, but Djokovic's flexibility and end-range control makes them all really close. Gun to the head on speed rank I go: Peak Rafa, Alcaraz, Peak Djokovic.

- Ability to return defense to offense? This is where Rafa and Novak shine. Alcaraz is behind in this category for me. Rafa and Novak at end-range are the best of all-time. Alcaraz is good, great even, but Djokodal are freaks in this category. Novak's sliding backhand is the BOAT, Rafa's running forehand is probably the BOAT. They weren't too shabby on their weaker sides either.

- Shot tolerance? Peak Djokodal still way ahead. Alcaraz is always looking to attack. A young Novak was similar actually, way more trigger-happy on the forehand. For now, he's behind in shot tolerance.

- Return-of-serve. He's doing really well, but still about 2% less on 1st and 2nd return points won, but he is really high up there.

But there are categories where I think Alcaraz is ahead:

- volleys. Unbelievable how good this kid's hands are. Rafa's court awareness and ability to close the net is better, but for pure hands I put Alcaraz first.
- Slice. Looks technically so sound and comfortably slicing, which again, I'm just blown away but considering he is 18 with a 2HBH...Just doesn't make sense.
- Drop shot. Hands down this is almost his trademark these days. The forehand dropper he tried 46 times in the sunshine double, and won 41 so far.
- lob. The guy's lob has been off the charts recently. Especially off the backhand.

He's still a fair way off:

- Peak Djoker/Rafa serve.
- Peak Djoker return.
- Peak Rafa weight of shot.
- Peak Djokodal consistency and ability to just not miss point after point. AKA 2012 AO final.

There are so many positive signs with this kid though. He's hitting his first-serve in the mid 130's...I still think he needs to become a spot-server like Fed with his height, if he wants to really get his serve points won % higher. He has such a good +1 ability off both wings that he just needs to hit his spots and take advantage of the first ball as fed did so well (probably the BOAT at serve +1).
Comes forward a lot and it's exciting to wonder how good his net game can get in the next 5+ years.
Drop shots, lobs, sneaking, slicing. usually having this many shots in the toolbelt delays development because young players pick the wrong shot at the wrong time, but he seems to read the game so well and play the right shot so often. We will see how this develops.

Good stuff as per usual, @Zoid

One thing that Alcaraz has that’s very similar to Djoko is the stillness of his head when hitting off balance BHs with power. He technique on that BH is something else, and it looks like it cannot be broken down. Off balance, full run, pretty big cuts, and that head stays absolutely still. His little light steps make it look like he’s floating like Federer. And then there’s his point reset demeanor—he never seems to get down, plays every point, comes back after disappointing points like they never happened much like Rafito does.
 
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I think media and everyone else is searching for the next player to carry on the baton from the big 3 and save tennis. Alcaraz is a candidate after others like Med and Zverev kept on disappointing.
 
The hype train is much bigger cause the ATP knows their screwed once the big 3 retire. Lots of hype but until he develops a serve I don’t see what the hype is. Dude couldn’t even beat a broke back way past prime 36 years Nadal at IW. I wouldn’t be hyping up a dude that couldn’t manage that
 
Who is Alcaraz?

I wasn't around (at least not the tennis world) for the hype trains of Nadal, Gasquet, Djokovic, and Murray. Especially with Nadal, how does Alcaraz' hype compare to what they were receiving as youngsters?

By the way, I'm not implying it's deserved or undeserved, just comparing for those who have been around tennis that long.
 
Zverev was decent but he is no Alcaraz

Alcaraz has top 10 wins at majors while Zverev still does not have one after probably 6 years on tour

Very few players ever (yes, ever) have played 20 consecutive matches at the level Alcaraz just has. He’s 18 going on 19 and has not been soundly beaten yet while he’s given out plenty of whippings. It’s pretty much unheard of. And it’s because he doesn’t have any real weaknesses other than a serve that doesn’t have good placement, but at least produces power.

Something that amazed me this Miami Open was his winning % on 1st serve DESPITE not having a lot of aces/unreturneds/one-two combos. This is something I’ve only see from Rafito himself even if Alcaraz does hit a bigger 1st serve. Once he learns to place the serve better, get some more free points…it looks like nightmare territory for most opponents.

75% 78%, 79%, 74%, 78%, 83% of first serve points won with not many easy points and on a slow hard court. That looks like peak Rafito behavior.
 
-Alcaraz speed? Faster than Novak, maybe Rafa speed. Hard to compare. I'd say pure line speed Rafa and Alcaraz are better than Djokovic, but Djokovic's flexibility and end-range control makes them all really close. Gun to the head on speed rank I go: Peak Rafa, Alcaraz, Peak Djokovic.

- Ability to return defense to offense? This is where Rafa and Novak shine. Alcaraz is behind in this category for me. Rafa and Novak at end-range are the best of all-time. Alcaraz is good, great even, but Djokodal are freaks in this category. Novak's sliding backhand is the BOAT, Rafa's running forehand is probably the BOAT. They weren't too shabby on their weaker sides either.

- Shot tolerance? Peak Djokodal still way ahead. Alcaraz is always looking to attack. A young Novak was similar actually, way more trigger-happy on the forehand. For now, he's behind in shot tolerance.

- Return-of-serve. He's doing really well, but still about 2% less on 1st and 2nd return points won, but he is really high up there.

But there are categories where I think Alcaraz is ahead:

- volleys. Unbelievable how good this kid's hands are. Rafa's court awareness and ability to close the net is better, but for pure hands I put Alcaraz first.
- Slice. Looks technically so sound and comfortably slicing, which again, I'm just blown away but considering he is 18 with a 2HBH...Just doesn't make sense.
- Drop shot. Hands down this is almost his trademark these days. The forehand dropper he tried 46 times in the sunshine double, and won 41 so far.
- lob. The guy's lob has been off the charts recently. Especially off the backhand.

He's still a fair way off:

- Peak Djoker/Rafa serve.
- Peak Djoker return.
- Peak Rafa weight of shot.
- Peak Djokodal consistency and ability to just not miss point after point. AKA 2012 AO final.

There are so many positive signs with this kid though. He's hitting his first-serve in the mid 130's...I still think he needs to become a spot-server like Fed with his height, if he wants to really get his serve points won % higher. He has such a good +1 ability off both wings that he just needs to hit his spots and take advantage of the first ball as fed did so well (probably the BOAT at serve +1).
Comes forward a lot and it's exciting to wonder how good his net game can get in the next 5+ years.
Drop shots, lobs, sneaking, slicing. usually having this many shots in the toolbelt delays development because young players pick the wrong shot at the wrong time, but he seems to read the game so well and play the right shot so often. We will see how this develops.
You didn't disappoint I'll respond to each, but mostly I just agree

1) speed, I might be wrong, but I still think he's a full level below peak Rafa in this respect. He's fast, no doubt about it and one of the fastest on tour right now, but peak Rafa and peak Djoko + stretch has him beat here imo
2) agree completely on defense to offense
3) -II- on shot tolerance
4) RoS. The eye test puts him well behind Novak here for me. Rafa, fairly close. I can't access the leaderboard for whatever reason right now, but have a look at this and this. Those are extremely promising numbers.

- volleys. Not ready to put him over Rafa just yet, but he sure has the right tools, the right feel and the right mindset. He just might be ahead already.
- slice, agree
- drop shot. Oh yes, that's a moneyshot and will be even better on clay
- mury goat like lobs

"usually having this many shots in the toolbelt delays development because young players pick the wrong shot at the wrong time, but he seems to read the game so well and play the right shot so often."
Agree

"I still think he needs to become a spot-server like Fed with his height, if he wants to really get his serve points won % higher. He has such a good +1 ability off both wings that he just needs to hit his spots and take advantage of the first ball as fed did so well (probably the BOAT at serve +1)."
agree
 
Very few players ever (yes, ever) have played 20 consecutive matches at the level Alcaraz just has. He’s 18 going on 19 and has not been soundly beaten yet while he’s given out plenty of whippings. It’s pretty much unheard of. And it’s because he doesn’t have any real weaknesses other than a serve that doesn’t have good placement, but at least produces power.

Something that amazed me this Miami Open was his winning % on 1st serve DESPITE not having a lot of aces/unreturneds/one-two combos. This is something I’ve only see from Rafito himself even if Alcaraz does hit a bigger 1st serve. Once he learns to place the serve better, get some more free points…it looks like nightmare territory for most opponents.

75% 78%, 79%, 74%, 78%, 83% of first serve points won with not many easy points and on a slow hard court. That looks like peak Rafito behavior.
I think you're absolutely spot on here, good catch
Something that amazed me this Miami Open was his winning % on 1st serve DESPITE not having a lot of aces/unreturneds/one-two combos. This is something I’ve only see from Rafito himself even if Alcaraz does hit a bigger 1st serve. Once he learns to place the serve better, get some more free points…it looks like nightmare territory for most opponents.

75% 78%, 79%, 74%, 78%, 83% of first serve points won with not many easy points and on a slow hard court. That looks like peak Rafito behavior.
 
Commentators are beginning to say Alcaraz is better than Rafa & Novak at the same age. They can’t have been watching tennis then because he is nowhere near the 18 year old Rafa.

Rafa won 2 Masters at the age of 18 and a slam days after he turned 19. Alcaraz turns 19 in May. Let’s see what happens.
He's nowhere near Chang, Wilander, Becker or Borg, all of whom had won a slam by age 18. Boris had won 2 Wimbledon titles when he was Carlos's age.

To answer the OP's question, the most hyped 17 year old player was Agassi, at least in the States. He was a sensation.
 
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