Alcaraz is 3-0 against Sinner this year and has won 5 of the last 7 matches

Gonna be a very boring and predictable 2 decades in tennis ....

Time to dig up the classic Agassi Sampras matches ....
 
NeutralFan said:
Carlos won a match in 3 sets by a thin margin when he should have comfortably won in 2sets, His problem remains the same , dumb shot selection, lack of point construction and going too much while being up 30-0, 40-15,40-30. he's supremely talented and can break all records but he's still very raw and needs a better coach and learn some basic which is hindering him from dominating the tour. Can he do that? let's see.
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I will agree with you that Carlos makes far too many UEs making things harder than they need to be but so do a lot of young players this was Noles issue early in his career.

I hope he adds Rafa to his team when Rafa retires as this is something Rafa didn't do.
 
KennyoFatoBoiyo said:
I will agree with you that Carlos makes far too many UEs making things harder than they need to be but so do a lot of young players this was Noles issue early in his career.

I hope he adds Rafa to his team when Rafa retires as this is something Rafa didn't do.
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Because Rafa's style facilitated a greater margin for error. Carlos doesn't play anywhere near like that.
 
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All three matches this year went the distance. Alcaraz deserved to win today, he was just a little better.

I am sure Sinner will bounce back against him, Alcaraz had to play top level tennis today to win, it wasn't like he just walked all over Sinner. This was probably one of the top three best highest quality matches we have seen this year.

I do expect back and forth between them.
 
Hitman said:
All three matches this year went the distance. Alcaraz deserved to win today, he was just a little better.

I am sure Sinner will bounce back against him, Alcaraz had to play top level tennis today to win, it wasn't like he just walked all over Sinner. This was probably one of the top three best highest quality matches we have seen this year.

I do expect back and forth between them.
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132 vs 120
15 bp created

  • just a little better
  • highest qualuty

no way. the zverev sinner match was better than this.
olympics final easily
must be at least 2 more matches better than this
raz struff part 2 is above this
 
nolefam_2024 said:
132 vs 120
15 bp created

  • just a little better
  • highest qualuty

no way. the zverev sinner match was better than this.
olympics final easily
must be at least 2 more matches better than this
raz struff part 2 is above this
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Nobody cares about the boring baseline bashing that was the Zverev Cinci match
 
Both are great players and will do well to carry the torch post-Big 3.


tennis_pro said:
And people need a reminder that he's still only 21. He's arguably the best 19-21 year ever, but I don't think he has reached his prime yet.
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Borg and Nadal might have something to say about that, but he's incredible anyway.
 
Alcaraz is the best player.
Sinner didn’t have significant points to defend coming in.
AO - 2023 QF to champion
RG: 2023 2R to SF
Wimbledon : 2023 SF to QF
us open : 2023 4R to champion.

Add in titles at Cincinnati that offset most of the Toronto points and Miami.
next year he’ll have significant points to defend. He’ll lose a min of 870 points if he is a finalist at AO.
 
tennis_pro said:
carlos.jpg

I don't know how anyone can defend Sinner at this point anymore. He's like 62-2 vs the tour and 0-3 vs the only player that matters, which is Alcaraz. 2 losses on HC too when Sinner has had one of the best HC seasons ever (by default by winning the AO and USO).

Sinner had a lot of chances to close out Beijing too and failed. To me Alcaraz has a level in him that Sinner will never reach, he's 2 years younger and further away from his peak than Sinner is. The moment he starts getting more consistent results it's lights out for Sinner.

Beijing will sting Sinner and at this point he could be developing a small mental block against Alcaraz.
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I'll prefer that instead of being 2-1 against Alcaraz and suck against the rest of the tour (like last year).
 
Alcaraz has higher peaks than Sinner, while Sinner's average-low level is higher than Alcaraz's average-low level. This is also certified by the numbers. In fact, Sinner boasts an open streak of 51 consecutive victories against players outside the top 20, something that hasn't been seen since the best years of the big three, while Alcaraz boasts a seasonal record of 8-1 against players ranked in the top 5, also a statistic that I think hasn't been seen since the big three in their peak years. Even if the seasonal h2h between the two are one-sided, they don't demonstrate any undisputed superiority of Alcaraz over Sinner in the matchup, this is when those challenges have always been decisive on a few points. Alcaraz in his still young career sooner or later has always demolished at least once any big name that has stood in his way, this has never happened with Sinner even when in the past years the two belonged to different categories, ranking in hand, an unmistakable sign that the Spaniard suffers the matchup with the Italian. The direct clashes between the two have always occurred within a tournament in which Alcaraz was at his peak inspiration. In Indian Wells he had just rendered Zverev helpless and then subsequently joked with Medvedev in the final. In Paris he was coming off the usual lesson inflicted on Tsitsipas by previously defusing FAA. So here in Beijing a clean sweep, only 3 games left to a good player like Griekspoor and the usual obvious superiority with Medvedev. And yet when in these moments of great inspiration he finds Sinner in front he always has a terrible time taking it home. So the question arises spontaneously;
What will happen when Alcaraz in a moment of little inspiration meets Sinner and his incredible consistency? Let posterity judge. Whoever expresses certainties on the issue must be careful about what could happen in the short term when perhaps the two could face each other several times, perhaps the current perception on h2h will be overturned. In general I envy those who express granite convictions on the development of their rivalry. Sinner is a monster of skill as much as Alcaraz, only less spectacular and flashy. He is a silent killer of this game, if Alcaraz kills you with winners and highlight plays, Sinner does it by feeding on his solidity in the 4 basic fundamentals of modern tennis. The Italian is the new generation robot, an evolution of Djokovic not so much for the level of play but for a much more aggressive and proactive style. And anyway I don't understand why when trying to analyze this 2024 of Sinner with various issues in tow (like the h2h with Alcaraz) the destabilizing factor of the investigations for the positivity to Clostebol is deliberately ignored. A weight on the shoulders difficult to bear for a high-level professional athlete who, to perform at his best, must necessarily have a state of inner serenity to be able to do so, and yet his performance does not seem to affect all of this.
 
So many people putting emphasis how Ben Shelton played at laver cup - it’s an exhibition.
Meaningless tennis. Doesn’t perform well against most of those players when it counts.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Isn't he top 20? He can definitely get inside top 10.
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Maybe.
He’s been more a US open performer or later in the year success. AO against Mannarino was a poor showing. So was the French.

I don’t think he moves good enough to get to that level just yet.

I’m also going to be honest : if he didn’t have that big serve - I don’t see him being top 40.
In true best of 3 and 5 matches : too many good players who move and counterpunch well can beat him bc Shelton doesn’t move or hit on the run well at all for a top 20 player.

I think his game is great for certain surfaces. But guys who are ranked higher and I even think Korda is a better player then him now - they move well and hit on the run better.
I also don’t see Shelton hitting his spots enough.
 
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jayvee said:
Flattened? The score was 7-6 7-6 :rolleyes:
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Who won the Gold?

Yeah.
Windsor2 said:
I wouldn't make too much of this win. Bejing is a Mickey mouse tournament and the surface was so slow that it actually favored Alcaraz way more even if nominally hc.
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The desperate, "Alcaraz is GOAT" / "Alcaraz is going to win 30 slams" / "Sinner is nothing compared to Alcaraz" hype-peddlers will take anything and try to turn it into a career-boosting sign.
 
Winner Sinner said:
Alcaraz has higher peaks than Sinner, while Sinner's average-low level is higher than Alcaraz's average-low level. This is also certified by the numbers. In fact, Sinner boasts an open streak of 51 consecutive victories against players outside the top 20, something that hasn't been seen since the best years of the big three, while Alcaraz boasts a seasonal record of 8-1 against players ranked in the top 5, also a statistic that I think hasn't been seen since the big three in their peak years. Even if the seasonal h2h between the two are one-sided, they don't demonstrate any undisputed superiority of Alcaraz over Sinner in the matchup, this is when those challenges have always been decisive on a few points. Alcaraz in his still young career sooner or later has always demolished at least once any big name that has stood in his way, this has never happened with Sinner even when in the past years the two belonged to different categories, ranking in hand, an unmistakable sign that the Spaniard suffers the matchup with the Italian. The direct clashes between the two have always occurred within a tournament in which Alcaraz was at his peak inspiration. In Indian Wells he had just rendered Zverev helpless and then subsequently joked with Medvedev in the final. In Paris he was coming off the usual lesson inflicted on Tsitsipas by previously defusing FAA. So here in Beijing a clean sweep, only 3 games left to a good player like Griekspoor and the usual obvious superiority with Medvedev. And yet when in these moments of great inspiration he finds Sinner in front he always has a terrible time taking it home. So the question arises spontaneously;
What will happen when Alcaraz in a moment of little inspiration meets Sinner and his incredible consistency? Let posterity judge. Whoever expresses certainties on the issue must be careful about what could happen in the short term when perhaps the two could face each other several times, perhaps the current perception on h2h will be overturned. In general I envy those who express granite convictions on the development of their rivalry. Sinner is a monster of skill as much as Alcaraz, only less spectacular and flashy. He is a silent killer of this game, if Alcaraz kills you with winners and highlight plays, Sinner does it by feeding on his solidity in the 4 basic fundamentals of modern tennis. The Italian is the new generation robot, an evolution of Djokovic not so much for the level of play but for a much more aggressive and proactive style. And anyway I don't understand why when trying to analyze this 2024 of Sinner with various issues in tow (like the h2h with Alcaraz) the destabilizing factor of the investigations for the positivity to Clostebol is deliberately ignored. A weight on the shoulders difficult to bear for a high-level professional athlete who, to perform at his best, must necessarily have a state of inner serenity to be able to do so, and yet his performance does not seem to affect all of this.
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Why would you make a second alt account in the same week?
 
legcramp said:
Why would you make a second alt account in the same week?
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I don't understand what you are referring to. I don't think it's that unique to be a Sinner fan. Then again, I'm one of his compatriots. How many Italians frequent this forum to make you wonder?

Goditi la vita, pace e amore, stiamo parlando di tennis.
 
Winner Sinner said:
Alcaraz has higher peaks than Sinner, while Sinner's average-low level is higher than Alcaraz's average-low level. This is also certified by the numbers. In fact, Sinner boasts an open streak of 51 consecutive victories against players outside the top 20, something that hasn't been seen since the best years of the big three, while Alcaraz boasts a seasonal record of 8-1 against players ranked in the top 5, also a statistic that I think hasn't been seen since the big three in their peak years. Even if the seasonal h2h between the two are one-sided, they don't demonstrate any undisputed superiority of Alcaraz over Sinner in the matchup, this is when those challenges have always been decisive on a few points. Alcaraz in his still young career sooner or later has always demolished at least once any big name that has stood in his way, this has never happened with Sinner even when in the past years the two belonged to different categories, ranking in hand, an unmistakable sign that the Spaniard suffers the matchup with the Italian. The direct clashes between the two have always occurred within a tournament in which Alcaraz was at his peak inspiration. In Indian Wells he had just rendered Zverev helpless and then subsequently joked with Medvedev in the final. In Paris he was coming off the usual lesson inflicted on Tsitsipas by previously defusing FAA. So here in Beijing a clean sweep, only 3 games left to a good player like Griekspoor and the usual obvious superiority with Medvedev. And yet when in these moments of great inspiration he finds Sinner in front he always has a terrible time taking it home. So the question arises spontaneously;
What will happen when Alcaraz in a moment of little inspiration meets Sinner and his incredible consistency? Let posterity judge. Whoever expresses certainties on the issue must be careful about what could happen in the short term when perhaps the two could face each other several times, perhaps the current perception on h2h will be overturned. In general I envy those who express granite convictions on the development of their rivalry. Sinner is a monster of skill as much as Alcaraz, only less spectacular and flashy. He is a silent killer of this game, if Alcaraz kills you with winners and highlight plays, Sinner does it by feeding on his solidity in the 4 basic fundamentals of modern tennis. The Italian is the new generation robot, an evolution of Djokovic not so much for the level of play but for a much more aggressive and proactive style. And anyway I don't understand why when trying to analyze this 2024 of Sinner with various issues in tow (like the h2h with Alcaraz) the destabilizing factor of the investigations for the positivity to Clostebol is deliberately ignored. A weight on the shoulders difficult to bear for a high-level professional athlete who, to perform at his best, must necessarily have a state of inner serenity to be able to do so, and yet his performance does not seem to affect all of this.
Click to expand...
As long as Alcaraz stays in the top 2, Alcaraz will not meet Sinner in those moments of little inspiration because he will lose to someone else. Its taken out of the Nadal playbook of generally meeting more consistent rivals when at his absolute best while avoiding them otherwise, getting a lead in the h2h and ultimately getting a mental edge.
 
ghostofMecir said:
Sinner deserves a lot of praise for his dominance over the tour and he is more dominant on tour relative to the entire field compared to Carlos when you look at it from a match to match, point to point basis, but you are right that Carlos has something that Sinner cannot seem to reach. Even with all that, when they play against each other, there’s little separation because of how solid Sinner is on serve and return, on offense and defense, and then how all around brilliant Carlos is on offense and defense.

When they play each other, the matches are always close because Sinner is too good on both serve and return and feom both wings to dominate for Carlos since Carlos doesn’t have a domimant serve and has to play a constant high gear from the baseline in serve games. This leads to close matches. Take a look at the winner’s dominance ratios in each match—there are no blowout beatdowns by either player. It is really rare that two players who are in the same generation play 10+ times without at least one match that any close but not between these two due to the aforementioned reasons.

f7Q51LY.jpg


In any case, this is right now really the only matchup that matters on your—all the other matches look like undercard, b side, etc., extras.
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I try to evaluate by perception rather than by statistics. From what I perceived of the 10 matches played between the two of them, the least balanced was the one at Wimbledon 2022. That day I never had the feeling that Sinner could lose the match even after losing the tiebreak in the third set at the photo finish. Having made the necessary evaluations, that match for pace and unilateral superiority I would compare it to the Melbourne semifinal between Sinner and Djokovic in this 2024. For example, in Umag 2022 Sinner won the last two sets 6-1 but it was a rather false score overall. The match with Alcaraz ahead by a set could have very well turned if Alcaraz up 1-0 in the second set had converted the 3 consecutive break points at 0-40. Instead, Sinner won that game and from that moment on all the inertia of the match turned. Instead, among Alcaraz's victories I don't see any such clear successes as that match at Wimbledon 2022, perhaps the 2 semifinals at Indian Wells 2023 and 2024, both cases there was the perception that Alcaraz had an extra gear on that surface, but in that 2023 I remember that Sinner up 6-5 had a set point in the first set on Alcaraz's serve, while in this year's match there was nothing to complain about in a third set won rather easily by the Spaniard, but to complain about the two break points not converted in two different games to recover the break of disadvantage in the second set, if he had succeeded maybe that day Sinner would have closed it in 2 sets after dominating the first. In short, the common denominator is that there have always been various watershed moments that have directed the match in favor of one or against the other except precisely in the Wimbledon 2022 match. If we really want to say it all, of the 6 Alcaraz victories in direct clashes at ATP level, the least in question was the first (ever) in Bercy 2021.
 
tennis_pro said:
carlos.jpg

I don't know how anyone can defend Sinner at this point anymore. He's like 62-2 vs the tour and 0-3 vs the only player that matters, which is Alcaraz. 2 losses on HC too when Sinner has had one of the best HC seasons ever (by default by winning the AO and USO).

Sinner had a lot of chances to close out Beijing too and failed. To me Alcaraz has a level in him that Sinner will never reach, he's 2 years younger and further away from his peak than Sinner is. The moment he starts getting more consistent results it's lights out for Sinner.

Beijing will sting Sinner and at this point he could be developing a small mental block against Alcaraz.
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They've played far too less, and I don't think there is a matchup issue for Sinner. If anything, Alcaraz has a matchup issue & mental lapse problem against Sinner.
He keeps making life difficult for himself against the Italian.
 
Since I don't want to indulge the ravings of a certain user (I just signed up and someone already claims to label me in a certain way out of pure prejudice) even though there is no real need (it's a matter of reiterating the obvious) as a Sinner fan who still tries to analyze things with coherence and objectivity, I would like to express my impressions on the Beijing match, breaking several lances in favor of Alcaraz. First of all, the surface has nothing to do with it, it's useless to stay here and dissect the speed of the Beijing surface and how it could have been more favorable to the Spaniard. Sinner turned his career around on these courts last year, his game marries perfectly with the Beijing courts. Small aside, in the Sinneraz rivalry there are no surfaces that are too comfortable in favor of one over the other and vice versa, or rather, both can beat their rival everywhere regardless of speed, bounce and so on, something that has already been demonstrated several times considering that Alcaraz beat Sinner 5 times on the hard surface that on paper should favor Sinner more, while Sinner in the only match between the two on grass had the upper hand, clay at the moment 1-1 and ball in the center. So the theory in this case can go to hell. And I'm not saying that on every surface it's 50-50, but rather that we are not in the least in terms of comfort zone at the levels of Fedal or even Nadovic. Having said this and returning to the match in Beijing, I will never say that Alcaraz had full control over Sinner, this cannot be when Sinner himself between the second and third set was on several occasions very close to turning the match definitively in his favor, however the superiority in the overall match of Alcaraz was evident. Superiority that had never been felt in the two previous seasonal challenges, because if it is true that in this Beijing final the Spaniard never managed to definitively escape (except obviously in the decisive tiebreak) it is equally true that the slaps that Sinner reserved for Alcaraz in the respective first sets of the semi-finals of IW and RG in this case were absolutely not seen, precisely because there was never a single moment where the Italian managed to dominate the Spaniard on the level of play, not even when he recovered in the first set from 5-2 down did I have this perception. Simply Alcaraz was stronger and fully deserved to win, but he was stronger not only in the final but also in the tournament as a whole, in fact in the end despite a seasonal h2h situation increasingly compromised (but not completely) I still welcomed the verdict positively precisely because on the eve of the final, following an unmistakable trend due to the path in the tournament, I would have expected Sinner to come out defeated in an even more crushing way in terms of the score. And please note that I am a firm denier of the theory "winner of the match = stronger player on that particular day", so my judgment is not based on results but is based on the objectivity of the forces on the field. Sinner could have won this final and I would have said the exact same thing (Alcaraz was stronger), just as, always by the way that I am not a fan with slices of ham lined over my eyes, I have no problem whatsoever in admitting that in the challenge between Sinner and Djokovic in the last Davis Cup, despite the final result that day the strongest was indisputably the Serb, in the series, reasoning by absurdity, if that day that match had been replayed 10 times at least 7 times, for what were the real values of strength at that moment, the result would have smiled on Djokovic.
 
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