Alcaraz is all gas and no breaks - Will he topple Federer to become the GOAT of Indian Wells?

[dking68]

No. He is lucky to have 2.

Should've lost to Tiafoe. Tiafoe was 2 points away from breaking and serving for the match to win in 4

 

[The_Order]

He might end up with more titles, but it's a big stretch to say he's greater than Fed and Djok should he do so...

 

[jl809]

1) It is very likely that Alcaraz will make this record his own.
Indian Wells enhances his style, a hard surface so slow where the incisiveness of the serves is less preponderant, hides his defects and brings out his strengths.
Here he is even superior to Sinner.

2) It is not true at all that the best Alcaraz on hard was seen in 2022.
We must also evaluate the type of opponents faced.
And in this perspective the best version of Alcaraz on hard was seen in 2023.
For example, Cincinnati 2023 memorable final lost against Djokovic, is worth much more in terms of technical depth than Miami 2022 won by the Spaniard.
Without forgetting Indian Wells 2023, probably the best version of Alcaraz ever seen so far on a single tournament without distinction of surface.
The final against Medvedev, who at that time was winning all the tournaments he entered (Rotterdam, Doha, Dubai and then Miami), was a chilling demonstration of strength.

Cincy 23 overrating is the new Paul Scholes overrating

 

[PedrosCousin]

Alcaraz takes breaks every 2 games.

 

[Pass750]

Alcaraz destroyed Dimitrov yesterday.

 

[Georgepeppard007]

Carlos should focus on bigger prizes like HC slams like Sinner does.

Indian Wells is a big tournament. It is almost like a 5th major. Very prestigious honor to get your name on this trophy.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Indian Wells is a big tournament. It is almost like a 5th major. Very prestigious honor to get your name on this trophy.

Yes that sounds like a backhanded compliment especially when Raz already has won USOpen and won 2 slams just last year.
I don't care for these backhanded compliments.

 

[messiahrobins]

Facts are not opinions

Most desperate table i have ever seen that is sheer copium. Reason i say that is the author of the table when told Nadal was better at USO than Djokovic or Federer was better at W than Djokovic suddenly tears up her own table and starts going on about opponents faced and adding context to the numbers lol.

 

[messiahrobins]

Djokovic had 2 wins over Federer in 2 finals! Federer had no victories over Djokovic, that I'm aware of.

Federer was way past his best by then though. By almost 10 years as well.

 

[Mainad]

Will he join Federer and Djokovic as 1 of only 3 players to three-peat in Indian Wells?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Will he join Federer and Djokovic as 1 of only 3 players to three-peat in Indian Wells?

More than even money at this pt.. rune and draper have outside shot. We can never count alcaraz 100% but let's see..

 

[tennis24x7]

While Federer and Djokovic have an equal amount of titles in desert, for me and many others Federer has the edge, he has an additional three finals, and his longevity at IW is unquestionably the greatest of them all. He won his first title back in 2004, which then lead to him becoming the first player to win three in a row, a feat later equalled by Djokovic, but Federer also made the finals in his last three appearances there from 2017 to 2019, winning the record equalling 5th title along the way.

What gives him an edge over Djokovic, despite them having won the same amount of titles, and Djokovic having the H2H, is that Djokovic was no longer a contender after 2016, back in his 20s, while Federer remained one well into his late 30s, this on top of all the extra finals he made. He was all in the picture in Indian Wells.

Alcaraz has been all gas and no breaks at Indian Wells these past few seasons, and while not a lock, he is a solid favorite to defend and win his third title, equalling Nadal there, at still being 21 years of age. Is it looking inevitable that he takes over Federer as IW GOAT in the very near future, or do you see him getting derailed? This court plays to his liking, beating him here as he now is entering his peak will be a very difficult task...

You mean brakes like stopping or break as in break point?

 

[messiahrobins]

He might end up with more titles, but it's a big stretch to say he's greater than Fed and Djok should he do so...

Alcaraz is only 21. What he is doing is clearly showing he is very likely to surpass the Big 3 in terms of greatness. When he is on he is a combination of the best parts of all 3. He isnt even at his peak yet either.
Tennis always evolves. Borg was the greatest until Sampras moved the game on a notch, then Federer came and moved the chains a bit, then Nadal came along and moved them a bit further. Djokovic in terms of consistency set a new benchmark. Alcaraz is probably going to move the chains further still. All the signs are there. As he matures the inconsistency he has shown to date will disappear.

 

[messiahrobins]

More than even money at this pt.. rune and draper have outside shot. We can never count alcaraz 100% but let's see..

Alcaraz should walk this event. Shelton maybe his biggest challenge in terms of only guy who might pinch a set.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Instead, he risks losing to Kecmanovic, it was a great feat.

Djokovic, temporarily weakened or not, was a player who won that tournament, a tournament that only thanks to his presence made Cincinnati a much more challenging test than Miami 2022.
And Alcaraz also had match points, against a player who during that tournament began a streak of victories that continued until the match with Sinner in the group in Turin, with victories in addition to Cincinnati, also at the US Open and Bercy (plus the Davis Cup qualifications).

So yes, Cincinnati 23 was better than Miami 22 where he did not face any truly relevant opponent.

So, playing 1 really good set vs 2 terrible ones…in a match you lost…when your opponent was struggling with heat exhaustion…in a tournament where you struggled significantly (going 3 sets in every match of said tournament) is better than winning a tournament where you only dropped a set (in arguably the match of the year)?

You’re basically using name recognition as the basis for why Cincy 23 > Miami 22. Sorry, that doesn’t pass the sniff test. Kecmanovic played significantly better than Joker did in Cincy.

 

[Winner Sinner]

So, playing 1 really good set vs 2 terrible ones…in a match you lost…when your opponent was struggling with heat exhaustion…in a tournament where you struggled significantly (going 3 sets in every match of said tournament) is better than winning a tournament where you only dropped a set (in arguably the match of the year)?

You’re basically using name recognition as the basis for why Cincy 23 > Miami 22. Sorry, that doesn’t pass the sniff test. Kecmanovic played significantly better than Joker did in Cincy.

Cincinnati has been named the 2023 match of the year among those in the ATP context.

I repeat, fighting on equal terms while losing against Djokovic 2023 on hard has much more relevance than fighting on equal terms while winning with an inspired Kecmanovic.
Tennis is a sport of interlocking pieces, Kecmanovic is the classic player who gives you rhythm with his tennis.
Furthermore, the best expression of esteem in that final came from Djokovic himself who during the award speech compared Alcaraz's resilience to that of his Spanish compatriot who you should know quite well.
It was a heroic match.

 

[TheRed]

I think he was 19 and won his first HC slam that year and he regressed after that ( that implies his HC peak) imo

Sampras literally did that and his career turned out ok

 

[Third Serve]

Instead, he risks losing to Kecmanovic, it was a great feat.

Djokovic, temporarily weakened or not, was a player who won that tournament, a tournament that only thanks to his presence made Cincinnati a much more challenging test than Miami 2022.
And Alcaraz also had match points, against a player who during that tournament began a streak of victories that continued until the match with Sinner in the group in Turin, with victories in addition to Cincinnati, also at the US Open and Bercy (plus the Davis Cup qualifications).

So yes, Cincinnati 23 was better than Miami 22 where he did not face any truly relevant opponent.

Djokovic was hardly an impressive opponent at Cincy that year. As mentioned before, the first two sets were awful from a level of play standpoint. The last set was solid though.

He's never been that good at Cincy to begin with tbh. Consistent, yes, but he can't hit his stride there in the way that he can on HC. Federer's decline is pretty much the only reason he has any titles there, never mind three of them.

 

[jl809]

Djokovic was hardly an impressive opponent at Cincy that year. As mentioned before, the first two sets were awful from a level of play standpoint. The last set was solid though.

He's never been that good at Cincy to begin with tbh. Consistent, yes, but he can't hit his stride there in the way that he can on HC. Federer's decline is pretty much the only reason he has any titles there, never mind three of them.

i wouldn’t bother wasting many words on that poster when they’re being like this (though you are right ofc)

 

[The Blond Blur]

Cincinnati has been named the 2023 match of the year among those in the ATP context.

I repeat, fighting on equal terms while losing against Djokovic 2023 on hard has much more relevance than fighting on equal terms while winning with an inspired Kecmanovic.
Tennis is a sport of interlocking pieces, Kecmanovic is the classic player who gives you rhythm with his tennis.
Furthermore, the best expression of esteem in that final came from Djokovic himself who during the award speech compared Alcaraz's resilience to that of his Spanish compatriot who you should know quite well.
It was a heroic match.

Who cares? If anything, that just means 2023 hardly had any memorable matches.

You can keep repeating it until the cows come home, it’s not going to make a difference. It doesn’t matter if you’re “fighting on equal terms” with Joker on HC…when he sucked for the first 2 sets too, lol. You’re literally just going off of who Joker is and what he accomplished rather than how he actually played in said match. If anything, it’s you who’s getting caught up in nostalgia. Carl couldn’t even take out a guy who looked like he was about to pass out any second on the court. He struggled massively all week against no one relevant. 1 single set can’t trump an entire great week of tennis.

 

[mike danny]

Who cares? If anything, that just means 2023 hardly had any memorable matches.

You can keep repeating it until the cows come home, it’s not going to make a difference. It doesn’t matter if you’re “fighting on equal terms” with Joker on HC…when he sucked for the first 2 sets too, lol. You’re literally just going off of who Joker is and what he accomplished rather than how he actually played in said match. If anything, it’s you who’s getting caught up in nostalgia. Carl couldn’t even take out a guy who looked like he was about to pass out any second on the court. He struggled massively all week against no one relevant. 1 single set can’t trump an entire great week of tennis.

People’s judgement has become so clouded that they consider even an old injured/sick Djokovic to be the toughest obstacle there ever was.

 

[Winner Sinner]

Who cares? If anything, that just means 2023 hardly had any memorable matches.

You can keep repeating it until the cows come home, it’s not going to make a difference. It doesn’t matter if you’re “fighting on equal terms” with Joker on HC…when he sucked for the first 2 sets too, lol. You’re literally just going off of who Joker is and what he accomplished rather than how he actually played in said match. If anything, it’s you who’s getting caught up in nostalgia. Carl couldn’t even take out a guy who looked like he was about to pass out any second on the court. He struggled massively all week against no one relevant. 1 single set can’t trump an entire great week of tennis.

Does this mean there were no other memorable matches that year?

Sinner-Medvedev in Vienna?

Sinner-Djokovic in the round robin in Turin?

The choice to indicate it as match of the year was not made by me but by the ATP through a survey of fans.
So I'm not the one trying to climb the mirrors.

I'm not saying that Alcaraz played a tight match that day with a memorable version that Djokovic, but I'm contesting your thesis according to which that match with Kecmanovic is more relevant than that final in Cincinnati, based exclusively on the spectacle.
Obviously you deliberately ignored my example on Sinneraz US Open 2022 and Sinneraz Roland Garros 2024.
Sinneraz US Open 2022 a match clearly more spectacular and of better quality than the match of Roland Garros 2024 full of unforced errors.
Yet I challenge anyone to tell me that beating Sinner at Roland Garros 2024 was easier than Sinner at the US Open 2022.

PS
Relevant opponents that he did not face on his path to Miami 2022.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Does this mean there were no other memorable matches that year?

Sinner-Medvedev in Vienna?

Sinner-Djokovic in the round robin in Turin?

The choice to indicate it as match of the year was not made by me but by the ATP through a survey of fans.
So I'm not the one trying to climb the mirrors.

I'm not saying that Alcaraz played a tight match that day with a memorable version that Djokovic, but I'm contesting your thesis according to which that match with Kecmanovic is more relevant than that final in Cincinnati, based exclusively on the spectacle.
Obviously you deliberately ignored my example on Sinneraz US Open 2022 and Sinneraz Roland Garros 2024.
Sinneraz US Open 2022 a match clearly more spectacular and of better quality than the match of Roland Garros 2024 full of unforced errors.
Yet I challenge anyone to tell me that beating Sinner at Roland Garros 2024 was easier than Sinner at the US Open 2022.

PS
Relevant opponents that he did not face on his path to Miami 2022.

This year isn’t even half way over yet, let’s maybe pump the breaks there. Again, that doesn’t really mean anything. So many people are getting caught up with the names of the players (in 2023 there were no bigger names in the game than Joker and Carl) than the actual level of play that took place in the match. Go look up the stats for sets 1-2, they were absolutely horrendous. And it’s not just the Kecmanovic match my guy. Carl played significantly better vs the rest of his draw in Miami vs Cincy. He was lucky he didn’t lose to Hurkacz tbh. He got pushed to a deciding set in literally every match he played that week against no one of note. I’ll take beating Tsitsipas, Hurkacz (this time in straight sets), and Ruud (made the USO F later that year) over getting pushed to 3 by Thompson, Paul, Purcell, and Hurkacz.

And I didn’t ignore your example of USO 22 vs RG 2024. I wasn’t that high on either match, where I was on Miami 22 vs Kec. Statistically speaking USO 22 and RG are much closer than Miami 22 vs Cincy 23 anyway. Also, Carl and The Sinner were both physically struggling in RG 24 whereas the same thing can’t be said for USO 22. And we all know Sinner is tougher on HC than he is on clay. He hasn’t even made a F of any of the top tier CC events.

 

[Winner Sinner]

This year isn’t even half way over yet, let’s maybe pump the breaks there. Again, that doesn’t really mean anything. So many people are getting caught up with the names of the players (in 2023 there were no bigger names in the game than Joker and Carl) than the actual level of play that took place in the match. Go look up the stats for sets 1-2, they were absolutely horrendous. And it’s not just the Kecmanovic match my guy. Carl played significantly better vs the rest of his draw in Miami vs Cincy. He was lucky he didn’t lose to Hurkacz tbh. He got pushed to a deciding set in literally every match he played that week against no one of note. I’ll take beating Tsitsipas, Hurkacz (this time in straight sets), and Ruud (made the USO F later that year) over getting pushed to 3 by Thompson, Paul, Purcell, and Hurkacz.

And I didn’t ignore your example of USO 22 vs RG 2024. I wasn’t that high on either match, where I was on Miami 22 vs Kec. Statistically speaking USO 22 and RG are much closer than Miami 22 vs Cincy 23 anyway. Also, Carl and The Sinner were both physically struggling in RG 24 whereas the same thing can’t be said for USO 22. And we all know Sinner is tougher on HC than he is on clay. He hasn’t even made a F of any of the top tier CC events.

We will never find a common ground on this issue.

But I would like to know which hard version of Alcaraz between 2022, 2023 and 2024 you consider the best, in general.
so regardless of the Cincinnati 23 vs Miami 22 issue.

 

[The Blond Blur]

We will never find a common ground on this issue.

But I would like to know which hard version of Alcaraz between 2022, 2023 and 2024 you consider the best, in general.
so regardless of the Cincinnati 23 vs Miami 22 issue.

Clearly.

And it depends on what you mean. If you’re asking about at the GS level then it’s easily USO 22. If you’re talking about best HC performance period then it’s either IW 23 or Beijing 24. If you’re talking about an entire season it’s 2023. But imo Carl’s HC level is vastly overrated. He’s been pretty disappointing outside of IW for the most part.

 

[Feather]

And you think at 21 years of age, he is in decline.

So when Sampras won USO at 19, and then didn't win a HC slam until three years later, he had peaked, then declined, then peaked again?

LOL, you are rocking

At times I wonder whether people actually read what they type..

 

[Hitman]

You mean brakes like stopping or break as in break point?

After the 6-1, 6-1 demolition, you probably got your answer.

 

[Pheasant]

I think that this event will determine whether or not Alcaraz breaks the IW record for the amount of titles.

If he wins the event, then I think that he can get to 6 titles while ending up the king of IW
If he blows this event somehow, then I think that he will end up with 4-5 titles at IW; which would drop him down 2nd or 3rd place.

I'm picking Alcaraz to win this event. So I will vote yes, he will pass Federer.

 

[Sport]

Djokovic prioritizes a more balanced achievement in all big titles on all surfaces. That's why he's the GOAT.

This comment displays insecurity. Yeah, Novak is the GOAT. So? This thread is specifically about IW, nothing else, and as soon as someone discusses the possibility of a player (in this case Raz) surpassing Novak in a remarkedly specific area (only IW, nothing else), you insecurily jump saying Novak is the GOAT (which no one disputed in this thread).

 

[Tallawah Tennis]

Will he join Federer and Djokovic as 1 of only 3 players to three-peat in Indian Wells?

Possibly, and I hope so, but Cerundolo, Draper/Shelton and whoever gets to final from the other side will have a say, no doubt. Intriguing stuff....