Alcaraz & Sinner And The Quest To Join Djokovic For The Complete Big Title Haul

Thoughts?

  • Total voters
    31
Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Its only been done once ever, by any male or female player.

But can Alcaraz and Sinner join this very elite club?

They are the two top dogs and clearly ATG players in the making.

Alcaraz has -

Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
US Open

he is missing as of now

Australian Open
Rome
Canada
Cincinnati
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championship
Olympics
Davis Cup


Sinner has -

Australian Open
Miami
Canada
Cincinnati
US Open
Shanghai
Year Ending Championships
Davis Cup

he is missing as of now

Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
Paris Indoors
Olympics


Can you see these two titans completing the set and take their place among those that completed the game? Currently Sinner is closer by one title.
 
Hitman said:
Its only been done once ever, by any male or female player.

But can Alcaraz and Sinner join this very elite club?

They are the two top dogs and clearly ATG players in the making.

Alcaraz has -

Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
US Open

he is missing as of now

Australian Open
Rome
Canada
Cincinnati
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championship
Olympics
Davis Cup


Sinner has -

Australian Open
Miami
Canada
Cincinnati
US Open
Shanghai
Year Ending Championships
Davis Cup

he is missing as of now

Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
Paris Indoors
Olympics


Can you see these two titans completing the set and take their place among those that completed the game? Currently Sinner is closer by one title.
Click to expand...
No, both jannik sinner and carlos alcaraz are not and will never ever be true all-time greats in the "making".
 
Hitman said:
Because they couldn't stop Djokovic?
Click to expand...
It is because both jannik sinner and carlos alcaraz could not ever completely overcome rafael nadal. Also, the fact that both jannik sinner and carlos alcaraz have still not to this day completely overcome novak djokovic further proves that both carlos alcaraz and jannik sinner are not true all-time greats.

If novak djokovic the last remaining true all-time great retires before being completely overcome by a true tennis great, then tennis will be completely eternally devolved.
 
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Hitman said:
Alcaraz has -

Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
US Open

he is missing as of now

Australian Open
Rome
Canada
Cincinnati
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championship
Olympics
Davis Cup


Sinner has -

Australian Open
Miami
Canada
Cincinnati
US Open
Shanghai
Year Ending Championships
Davis Cup

he is missing as of now

Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
Paris Indoors
Olympics


Can you see these two titans completing the set and take their place among those that completed the game? Currently Sinner is closer by one title.
Click to expand...
Bolded is what I see both of them managing to get. I don’t think either will complete the set, they’ll fall just short like Fedal
 
Tennis Devolution said:
It is because both jannik sinner and carlos alcaraz could not ever completely overcome rafael nadal. Also, the fact that both jannik sinner and carlos alcaraz are still struggling to this day to overcome novak djokovic further proves that both carlos alcaraz and jannik sinner are not true all-time greats.

If novak djokovic the last remaining true all-time great retires before being completely overcome by a true tennis great, then tennis will be completely eternally devolved.
Click to expand...

Didn't the Nadal v Sinner matches all happen within a six month period, all on clay and two of them being at RG? Zero matches on HC.

As for Nadal v Alcaraz, they played each other three times, and Alcaraz did win the last match and it was on clay. He never got a chance to play Nadal again after that, and Nadal's level was weeks from dropping off a cliff.

In regards to Djokovic, Sinner is in the ascension now, the H2H is 4-4 and very likely now will be leading it when they play next. He very quickly went from 0-3 down, the same way he was against Nadal, to go 4-1 in the next five matches.

Alcaraz needs a bit more work, but he does own a 2-0 in slam finals against him, so he actually won the two biggest matches they had. The Wimbledon finals.
 
Hitman said:
So Sinner will come one short? Monte Carlo or bust it seems.
Click to expand...
I think so. I’m not super confident, especially as he possibly could have won it last year, but my thinking is that Raz will get better and better at managing that transition from HC to Clay, and MC is so slow that it’s the anti-surface for Sinner’s game.

In 5 years or so I’m expecting some younger blokes we haven’t seen much of yet (like Fonseca etc) to also really establish themselves on clay

It’ll be like Federer at MC imo, where Sinner might get one good (Alcaraz-free) shot later in his career and it comes down to whether he can take it or not
 
jl809 said:
I think so. I’m not super confident, especially as he possibly could have won it last year, but my thinking is that Raz will get better and better at managing that transition from HC to Clay, and MC is so slow that it’s the anti-surface for Sinner’s game.

In 5 years or so I’m expecting some younger blokes we haven’t seen much of yet (like Fonseca etc) to also really establish themselves on clay

It’ll be like Federer at MC imo, where Sinner might get one good (Alcaraz-free) shot later in his career and it comes down to whether he can take it or not
Click to expand...

Fair enough, there is also the extra pressure of trying to win that final title.
 
Hitman said:
Didn't the Nadal v Sinner matches all happen within a six month period, all on clay and two of them being at RG? Zero matches on HC.

As for Nadal v Alcaraz, they played each other three times, and Alcaraz did win the last match and it was on clay. He never got a chance to play Nadal again after that, and Nadal's level was weeks from dropping off a cliff.

In regards to Djokovic, Sinner is in the ascension now, the H2H is 4-4 and very likely now will be leading it when they play next. He very quickly went from 0-3 down, the same way he was against Nadal, to go 4-1 in the next five matches.

Alcaraz needs a bit more work, but he does own a 2-0 in slam finals against him, so he actually won the two biggest matches they had. The Wimbledon finals.
Click to expand...
Look no, I see that you are trying to make completely argumentless nonstop excuses for both jannik sinner and carlos alcaraz but the irrefutable and indisputable fact is that all true all-time greats have been able to completely overcome all of their true all-time great predecessors completely regardless of the timing and place of the matches so both jannik sinner and carlos alcaraz do not all of a sudden get "free passes" just because everyone has been completely starved of a true tennis great for more than two decades.

No, novak djokovic still has the completely dominant edge over jannik sinner with novak djokovic having won more sets against jannik sinner than vice versa and all of jannik sinner's recent wins against novak djokovic have been all on fast hard courts only whereas novak djokovic has completely defeated jannik sinner on all surfaces.

No, carlos alcaraz having a completely losing head-to-head against novak djokovic after eight matches is absolutely completely unprecedented and unacceptable for an alleged "all-time great".
 
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Too early to know. Alcaraz may never win the ATP finals, or maybe he does win it multiple times, who knows. But, in principle, I think his game struggles the most on hard courts, especially indoor. His low height affects the quality of his serve and his game is not the most suited for those conditions. Still, considering his quality and talent, he may still win the title, maybe even a few times. The same logic applies to Masters 1000 played on indoor hard like Paris.

The problem with Sinner is clay. It'll be hard for him to win every single Masters 1000 on clay plus Roland-Garros.

Both will find it hard to win the Olympic Gold due to its limited number of editions.

Overall, and all things considered, I'd say it's more likely they don't achieve it.
 
It's very tough and particularly the OG gold which happens once every 4 year. Still I think Sinner has better chance to do it oce he comes back to his pre suspension form.

Also don't agree on Davis Cup being considered big title. Surely it's a big milestone but it's a team event, not singles championship
Atp tour doesn't consider it a big title.
 
Others already covered it. It's going to be hard but even that is not main point. These guys may not even prioritize the masters as much and go for exhos and stuff.

That's why the big titles that we have TODAY they only matter when we talk about big 3 and not the past legends or sinner.

Precisely why nole needed the slam record as well despite having lead in masters over fedal. Masters can disappear. Maybe tomorrow there will be just 7 masters. It's very possible.
 
Other than surfaces and conditions not necessarily favoring either (although I think they both have the games to contend anywhere), the Olympics and Davis Cup are such wild cards.

Let's say Alcaraz wins The Olympics in 2028. Now Sinner is 30 when it comes again in 2032. Not old, but.
And for Davis Cup, you're dependent on your teammates. Sinner may have the better chance there.

If I had to bet, I'd say "no" to both.
 
For Alcaraz it depends if the surface is deliberately slowed and or changed with a higher bounce in Paris Indoors , the Australian Open and the YEC. if it stays quite fast he might not be able to win all 3. Also For winning either Cinci or Montreal or Toronto ,it will be impossible for carlos to do it in an olympic year that he is obsessed to win especially after deep runs in Wimbledon and RG.
either he will skip both tournaments in an olympic year or will just play one of the day as a warm up for the us open. Carlos might not win one of the 3 (Montreal, Toronto or Cincinnati)
For Sinner the big question mark is clay and can he win the 3 masters 1000 on clay. he might miss one of the at the end of his career. I think MC will be the toughest to win like it is for Djokovic because of its proximity with the American HC swing and the lack of time to fully prepare for clay. Also, the competition will mainly get stronger on clay for sinner which is his weakest surface for stamina reasons. I don't see him winning MC with a tough draw , with having to play 4 consecutives matches on clay by going throus Fils, Fonseca, Alcaraz, Musetti or Zverev.
he will need an opening and a soft draw on clay.

Last but not least i believe one of them won't win the olympics when it's all said and done. Carlos is not gonna age well past 30 yo on HC imo. Both will be past their prime in 2032 olympics game.
Vae Victis for the one failing to win it in LA 2028:unsure:
 
M4tchP0int said:
For Alcaraz it depends if the surface is deliberately slowed and or changed with a higher bounce in Paris Indoors , the Australian Open and the YEC. if it stays quite fast he might not be able to win all 3. Also For winning either Cinci or Montreal or Toronto ,it will be impossible for carlos to do it in an olympic year that he is obsessed to win especially after deep runs in Wimbledon and RG.
either he will skip both tournaments in an olympic year or will just play one of the day as a warm up for the us open. Carlos might not win one of the 3 (Montreal, Toronto or Cincinnati)
For Sinner the big question mark is clay and can he win the 3 masters 1000 on clay. he might miss one of the at the end of his career. I think MC will be the toughest to win like it is for Djokovic because of its proximity with the American HC swing and the lack of time to fully prepare for clay. Also, the competition will mainly get stronger on clay for sinner which is his weakest surface for stamina reasons. I don't see him winning MC with a tough draw , with having to play 4 consecutives matches on clay by going throus Fils, Fonseca, Alcaraz, Musetti or Zverev.
he will need an opening and a soft draw on clay.

Last but not least i believe one of them won't win the olympics when it's all said and done. Carlos is not gonna age well past 30 yo on HC imo. Both will be past their prime in 2032 olympics game.
Vae Victis for the one failing to win it in LA 2028:unsure:
Click to expand...
This is very opaque.

At his age , Nadal had not made a slam final on hard courts and people made claims like he won't win usopen ever

Why ? Because they didn't see him win in usopen. Never mind that he had played many tough matches there already and was sometimes not at his best physically.

Today Nadal is us open great with 4 titles.

So this raz won't figure out ao if it's now slowed down is just big talk.

Even indoors he has won Rotterdam and has far more aggressive game than Nadal to begin with so he should have some chances for atp finals and Paris as well.
 
Sinner case is different , he is older. He is 24 and has not made a big final in clay in his career. But even he has made some semifinals in 2024.

I think sinner has to prove himself that he can win all 4 on clay but he likely wins rg because that's what matters. The others may not come due to scheduling and not because they are very slow or something. He is able to beat everyone out there. But he is more fast courts centric like fed who didn't win mc ever.
 
In essence raz would very very very likely win an Australian title at the least , more likely 2 of them. I see him doing 2 cgs.

Sinner will likely do cgs , not guaranteed but very likely.

But we can't make claims about masters because they will likely skip some important ones.
 
People just make claims that someone won't do something based on past losses. Like how last year they said sinner won't win rg in 2024. He came pretty close I would say.

In fact he came closer to win it than Wimbledon.

Let's see. I think both have shown ability to win all but slams matter way more than masters and that's why they may came up short as 14/14 titles is super difficult. But 4/4 is much simpler in modern homogenized tennis.
 
Its an absolute insult to Djokovic to bring Sinner into this discussion.
Even Alcaraz for that matter.
He doesn't have that stability even though he has the shotmaking.

an absolute insult to Federer, Nadal, Borg, Sampras etc. too.
 
Alcaraz is younger and will have more opportunities; he's already won big on all surfaces and he's the better athlete so just at a glance, he'd probably have a better chance. However, it just requires too much consistency at the highest level covering many years to do it. It's almost impossible. I would say the career "Super Slam" is hard enough with only two men to ever do it. So my guess is that neither will do it.
 
NoleFam said:
Alcaraz is younger and will have more opportunities, he's already won big on all surfaces, and he's the better athlete so just at a glance, he'd probably have a better chance. However, it just requires too much consistency at the highest level covering many years to do it. It's almost impossible. I would say the career "Super Slam" is hard enough with only two men to ever do it. So my guess is that neither will do it.
Click to expand...
Yes

Like others explained above. Raz has inconsistencies. Plus the schedule is rigorous and he has outside ambitions like exhibitions and stuff. The landscape is changing.

I think with the recent lawsuit from ptpa , if nothing else, masters would be skipped more than in 2010s.

Even though Djokovic won all masters, he was not playing exhibitions every few months like raz did in past year and half.
 
M4tchP0int said:
Ironically he has with the DelPotro and Dimitrov exhibition but they are in practice a friendly goodbye , a gratefulness event
Click to expand...
You mean Djokovic at 37 right? It doesn't matter today. He is super old.

In his peak, he clawed his way back from defeats at hands of Nadal on clay to arrive in next tournament ready for another loss.

Remember 2009 clay season?
 
M4tchP0int said:
For Alcaraz it depends if the surface is deliberately slowed and or changed with a higher bounce in Paris Indoors , the Australian Open and the YEC. if it stays quite fast he might not be able to win all 3. Also For winning either Cinci or Montreal or Toronto ,it will be impossible for carlos to do it in an olympic year that he is obsessed to win especially after deep runs in Wimbledon and RG.
either he will skip both tournaments in an olympic year or will just play one of the day as a warm up for the us open. Carlos might not win one of the 3 (Montreal, Toronto or Cincinnati)
For Sinner the big question mark is clay and can he win the 3 masters 1000 on clay. he might miss one of the at the end of his career. I think MC will be the toughest to win like it is for Djokovic because of its proximity with the American HC swing and the lack of time to fully prepare for clay. Also, the competition will mainly get stronger on clay for sinner which is his weakest surface for stamina reasons. I don't see him winning MC with a tough draw , with having to play 4 consecutives matches on clay by going throus Fils, Fonseca, Alcaraz, Musetti or Zverev.
he will need an opening and a soft draw on clay.

Last but not least i believe one of them won't win the olympics when it's all said and done. Carlos is not gonna age well past 30 yo on HC imo. Both will be past their prime in 2032 olympics game.
Vae Victis for the one failing to win it in LA 2028:unsure:
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Carlos will definetely still be in his prime in the 2032 Olympics game. He'll only be 29, and Sinner will "only" be 31. Let's not exaggerate, recent history in all sports (not only tennis) shows inprovement in nutrition and sports science has increased longevity at the highest level. 31 is merely starting the decline process, in some cases there isn't even a decline at that age, and in others the effect is barely noticieable.

So, realistically, both still have 2 great chances. Suggesting neither Raz nor Sinner have any chance to win the 2032 Olympics is not realistic. Djokovic won it aged 37, and Sinner would be 6 years younger and Alcaraz 8 years younger than that. There's nothing "exceptional" in longevity terms about being at your prime aged 29, and at your prime or nearly-prime level at age 31.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Yes

Like others explained above. Raz has inconsistencies. Plus the schedule is rigorous and he has outside ambitions like exhibitions and stuff. The landscape is changing.

I think with the recent lawsuit from ptpa , if nothing else, masters would be skipped more than in 2010s.

Even though Djokovic won all masters, he was not playing exhibitions every few months like raz did in past year and half.
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I doubt the PTPA lawsuit will be a factor since neither seem to want to get involved. I just think winning all those tournaments and the Davis Cup just requires a lot of commitment and consistency at the highest level across a decade or more, and avoiding injury. Plus, being able to master conditions that don't favor your game which makes it that more difficult.
 
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Olympics is hard for every single player .

The goat almost didn't win it. Federer never won it. It's not easy to win. Needs a huge luck, not really luck but timing.

Even timing is not enough. Djokovic was number 1 in 2012/2016/2021 and still didn't win. And he win it when he was at his worst form going in.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Others already covered it. It's going to be hard but even that is not main point. These guys may not even prioritize the masters as much and go for exhos and stuff.

That's why the big titles that we have TODAY they only matter when we talk about big 3 and not the past legends or sinner.

Precisely why nole needed the slam record as well despite having lead in masters over fedal. Masters can disappear. Maybe tomorrow there will be just 7 masters. It's very possible.
Click to expand...
Keep me honest here, but didn’t big titles only become a thing in the 2010s when all of the big 3 were well into their domination? Federer in particular, played most his peak when many masters and even some “small titles” like Gstaad and Vienna had bo5 finals. The structure of the tour as well as the promotions by the atp can really shift priorities around.
 
Sputnik Bulgorov said:
Keep me honest here, but didn’t big titles only become a thing in the 2010s when all of the big 3 were well into their domination? Federer in particular, played most his peak when many masters and even some “small titles” like Gstaad and Vienna had bo5 finals. The structure of the tour as well as the promotions by the atp can really shift priorities around.
Click to expand...
I don't know because I didn't watch tennis pre 2010s. But since I know it, atp did promote it. And it makes sense as these are mandatory events.
 
I think Masters will be a huge key for both moving forward. Of course the biggest focus will be GSs, but M1000 are a lot of points, and a LOT of $$$, with substantial appearance fees too.

That said, younger players are not driven like older players, and they can win something and go a bit walk-about, resting on the cash and points. Sinner and Alcz seem to be more motivated, but as time goes on, and the back accounts and achievements pile up, will they still drive for bigger goals, or just enjoy it?

Time will tell.
 
Raz at 21 probably has earned more money than 3 times what Djokovic earned. 3 times is very generous to Djokovic when I add sponsorship money.
 
Hitman said:
Its only been done once ever, by any male or female player.

But can Alcaraz and Sinner join this very elite club?

They are the two top dogs and clearly ATG players in the making.

Alcaraz has -

Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
US Open

he is missing as of now

Australian Open
Canada
Cincinnati
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championship
Olympics
Davis Cup


Sinner has -

Australian Open
Miami
Canada
Cincinnati
US Open
Shanghai
Year Ending Championships
Davis Cup

he is missing as of now

Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Roland Garros
Wimbledon
Paris Indoors
Olympics


Can you see these two titans completing the set and take their place among those that completed the game? Currently Sinner is closer by one title.
Click to expand...

Updated!!!!


Alcaraz has -

Australian Open
Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Roland Garros
Cincinnati
Wimbledon
US Open

he is missing as of now

Canada
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championship
Olympics
Davis Cup


Sinner has -

Australian Open
Miami
Wimbledon
Canada
Cincinnati
US Open
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championships
Davis Cup

he is missing as of now

Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Roland Garros
Olympics
 
Hitman said:
Updated!!!!


Alcaraz has -

Australian Open
Indian Wells
Miami
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Roland Garros
Cincinnati
Wimbledon
US Open

he is missing as of now

Canada
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championship
Olympics
Davis Cup


Sinner has -

Australian Open
Miami
Wimbledon
Canada
Cincinnati
US Open
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championships
Davis Cup

he is missing as of now

Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Olympics
Click to expand...
For Carlos - Year Ending Championship will be hardest to win .
For Jannik - Roland Garros will be hardest to win.

 
Anything outside the majors is not that relevant except total title count

Some tournaments didn’t exist in the past or were never important , so this is that something to lose sleep
 
I voted both would do it assuming it was all majors, masters, and the ATP finals, but now seeing Davis cup and olympics are included, I have changed my vote to neither, because I reckon only one of them will win the Olympics and it will probably be Carlos, and I don't see Carlos ever winning Davis Cup with Spain even though they have davidovich fokina, Munar, etc.
 
Hitman said:
Alcaraz is missing as of now

Canada
Shanghai
Paris Indoors
Year Ending Championship
Olympics
Davis Cup


Sinner is missing as of now

Indian Wells
Monte Carlo
Madrid
Rome
Roland Garros
Olympics
Click to expand...
Based on these I voted Sinner, just feels inevitable that his barren run on clay comes to an end in a big way sooner or later, and obviously he'll always be a favourite at IW if he's in any sort of form. The only big question is the Olympics since you get so few chances.

As much as I love Carlos, both the big indoors titles in conditions that don't favour him, the Olympics with the aforementioned quadrennial issue, and the Davis Cup which isn't fully in his control are massive hurdles to get over, and combining them together I don't expect him to get it over the line. Really hope he can prove me wrong, though.
 
Giocoswitch said:
Based on these I voted Sinner, just feels inevitable that his barren run on clay comes to an end in a big way sooner or later, and obviously he'll always be a favourite at IW if he's in any sort of form. The only big question is the Olympics since you get so few chances.
Click to expand...
On what planet is Sinner the favorite for IW?
 
Djumhur said:
This years IW courts seem way faster than in previous years. Just watched Sinner practice at the main court. It was really fast. I think Sinner is going to win. He is the favourite
Click to expand...
Sinner is the favorite? Having won this tournament zero times against a guy whos won it twice? Holding zero HC Slams against a guy whos won the last 2? Against a guy he is 2-7 since early 2024 including 1-4 on HC? Against a guy whos the most in-form player right now when he himself isnt having lost to fossil Djokovic at the AO and Machac in Qatar?

But yeah Sinner is the favorite because he had a good practice session.

Sinner isnt the favorite in any tournament when Alcaraz is in the draw.
 
Neither one will win all of the titles. The Davis Cup and Olympics are too much. But even excluding those, I don’t see either one bagging all 9 Masters events.
 
If Djo doesn't retire before the 10th masters Saudi open is inaugurated in 2027, does that mean his resume will be considered "incomplete" again?

And is it really fair that SinCaraz now has to chase one more title to "complete" their resumes?

People often come to me and ask these questions.
 
_phantom said:
If Djo doesn't retire before the 10th masters Saudi open is inaugurated in 2027, does that mean his resume will be considered "incomplete" again?

And is it really fair that SinCaraz now has to chase one more title to "complete" their resumes?

People often come to me and ask these questions.
Click to expand...

If Djokovic does not retire by then , then all those who claim that he completed tennis will have to withdraw their statement .

And we know well he did not complete Hamburg and Big Daddy stopped him. Folks forget that and there is attwnpt to revise history

But some are unbiased and will always speak the truth irrespective of who it benefits
 
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