Alexander Zverev In The Last 2 Sets

[Lozo1016]

Zverev is the 2nd player in the Open Era to lose both the 4th and 5th sets of a GS Final while winning a total of 3 games or fewer. The first and only example prior to today was Manuel Orantes in the 1974 RG Final to Borg when he lost 6-1, 6-1 in the 4th and 5th. Orantes went up 2 sets to love but lost 0, 1, 1 to close the match out.

The individual games within the sets of the Zverev/Alcaraz match felt more competitive than the score indicated IMO, but it's rare to see a player go up 2 sets to 1 and then wilt in the final 2 sets like that.

Borg lost a tiebreak in the 2nd set, but he said he still felt good about his chances because he could tell Orantes was getting tired and feeling the pressure. I wonder if Alcaraz felt the same way today. Zverev, like Orantes, was the older player and he hadn't won a Slam yet. It's tough for Zverev to go 4 hours every match while dealing with stiff competition, increased pressure and diabetes.

He has to make it easier on himself so he's not in these positions because IDK if he can handle it.

 

[aldeayeah]

As you have already said, the two final sets were closer than indicated by the scoreline, particularly the 5th.

 

[Tano]

What is Zverev's record in best-of-five-set matches against top 10 players in his career?

 

[Lozo1016]

What is Zverev's record in best-of-five-set matches against top 10 players in his career?

4-18

 

[socallefty]

Zverev didn’t choke, didn’t play bad - he was just outplayed by a player who has a lot more arrows in his quiver. A guy who beat Djokovic in 5 sets on Wimbledon center court where he had not lost in 10 years. El Rey Carlos Uno!

 

[BeatlesFan]

It's tough for Zverev to go 4 hours every match while dealing with stiff competition, increased pressure and diabetes.

It's tough for every player in slam finals "dealing with stiff competition and increased pressure," not just Zverev. The only thing unique to Zverev is being a diabetic. No need to add the other two elements.

 

[Lozo1016]

It's tough for every player in slam finals "dealing with stiff competition and increased pressure," not just Zverev. The only thing unique to Zverev is being a diabetic. No need to add the other two elements.

Sure. I just don't think he's the kind of player capable of handling it. Like we saw Nadal go 5 hours vs Verdasco in a SF and then 4 hours vs Federer to win AO.

Zverev is bad vs top 10 players, he's not great under pressure, and he's susceptible to wearing down once we get to a certain point in a Slam. He can't put himself in position where he's fighting tooth and nail to defeat Griekspoor in the 3rd round, because that type of thing will come back to bite him IMO.

 

[darthrafa]

Zverev didn’t choke, didn’t play bad - he was just outplayed by a player who has a lot more arrows in his quiver. A guy who beat Djokovic in 5 sets on Wimbledon center court where he had not lost in 10 years. El Rey Carlos Uno!

carlos is the better player
but sasha lost is indeed coz he played more badly than carlos
both performance was worse than those of previous rounds, likely due to pressure of final

 

[BeatlesFan]

I just don't think he's the kind of player capable of handling it. Like we saw Nadal go 5 hours vs Verdasco in a SF and then 4 hours vs Federer to win AO.

Well, comparing Zedrot to Nadal is like comparing Tsitsipas to Federer. These guys are jokes compared to any of the big 3. Obviously Zverev can't handle pressure in slams, he's never been able to. Fed and Nadal have 42 slams between them, Goldie will retire with 0.

After another slam defeat and whimpering off with 3 games in the last two sets, Chainz will choke even more if he ever makes another slam final. Hopefully he won't.

 

[weakera]

Prime Thiem would have put Alcaraz away.

 

[SonnyT]

Both Sinner and Zverev choked after they went up 2-1 in sets. Sinner won 7 games in the final 2 sets, and Zverev won 3 games.

 

[socallefty]

carlos is the better player
but sasha lost is indeed coz he played more badly than carlos
both performance was worse than those of previous rounds, likely due to pressure of final

Do you play tennis? When you play against a better player, you can’t play as well as you might against others because they don’t let you.

 

[vokazu]

Zverev is the 2nd player in the Open Era to lose both the 4th and 5th sets of a GS Final while winning a total of 3 games or fewer. The first and only example prior to today was Manuel Orantes in the 1974 RG Final to Borg when he lost 6-1, 6-1 in the 4th and 5th. Orantes went up 2 sets to love but lost 0, 1, 1 to close the match out.

The individual games within the sets of the Zverev/Alcaraz match felt more competitive than the score indicated IMO, but it's rare to see a player go up 2 sets to 1 and then wilt in the final 2 sets like that.

Borg lost a tiebreak in the 2nd set, but he said he still felt good about his chances because he could tell Orantes was getting tired and feeling the pressure. I wonder if Alcaraz felt the same way today. Zverev, like Orantes, was the older player and he hadn't won a Slam yet. It's tough for Zverev to go 4 hours every match while dealing with stiff competition, increased pressure and diabetes.

He has to make it easier on himself so he's not in these positions because IDK if he can handle it.

I wonder if his diabetic condition affect his fitness in 5 sets matches ?

Diabetes can make you feel very tired. This is called fatigue. It happens because high blood sugar disrupts the body's ability to use sugar for energy. Dehydration from increased urination also can leave you feeling tired.

 

[MichaelNadal]

It was messy af. Definitely had his chances, but the DF's and missed easy putaways were his doom.

 

[roysid]

Do you play tennis? When you play against a better player, you can’t play as well as you might against others because they don’t let you.

Rightfully said. And zverev had to go for the big shots at the corners consistently. Else he couldnt win the point. And he started missing

 

[Arak]

Zverev will always be a BO3 specialist. It’s just not possible to play 4-5 hours consistently at top level with type 1 diabetes. He seems to accept his limitation himself.

 

[darthrafa]

Do you play tennis? When you play against a better player, you can’t play as well as you might against others because they don’t let you.

oh yes
am i the only one saying they underperformed?
i heard the sound/word of choke repeatedly everywhere on the forum, which must mean they played well in the eyes of u playing good tennis

 

[Third Serve]

Prime Thiem would have put Alcaraz away.

Thiem stunk up a lot of big matches at RG. I wouldn’t give him a clear victory. Would be close tho

 

[dking68]

Thiem stunk up a lot of big matches at RG. I wouldn’t give him a clear victory. Would be close tho

Thiem would win. If Thiem 2019 could take a set from Goatdal, he would take at least 2 from 2024 Alcaraz

 

[socallefty]

oh yes
am i the only one saying they underperformed?
i heard the sound/word of choke repeatedly everywhere on the forum, which must mean they played well in the eyes of u playing good tennis

When you hear some posters use ‘mug’ and ‘choke‘ to explain every loss or they say ‘weak era’, ‘prime/peak’ etc. or they seem too much of a fanboy of just 1 or 2 players, you can bet that there is a good chance they don’t play tennis. If someone posts only on GPPD and never on the equipment/tips/leagues sections, that is another sign.

 

[Arak]

When you hear some posters use ‘mug’ and ‘choke‘ to explain every loss or they say ‘weak era’, ‘prime/peak’ etc. or they seem too much of a fanboy of just 1 or 2 players, you can bet that there is a good chance they don’t play tennis. If someone posts only on GPPD and never on the equipment/tips/leagues sections, that is another sign.

This forum is extremely toxic. Sometimes I feel that it’s not good for my mental health to read all the negativity and the name calling. Tennis is such a unique sport that takes a big toll on the players and the viewers alike. One should be a bit masochistic to play or watch tennis.

 

[socallefty]

This forum is extremely toxic. Sometimes I feel that it’s not good for my mental health to read all the negativity and the name calling. Tennis is such a unique sport that takes a big toll on the players and the viewers alike. One should be a bit masochistic to play or watch tennis.

Just put all the toxic posters on the ignore list. My criterion is that if I want nothing to do with a person in real life based on what they say or how they say it when they open their mouth, then I want nothing to do with a similar person online based on what they post.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Raz played well at the end but Zed also choked at some big moments.

Zed had some very ugly DF's and UFE in the fifth set. It was very ugly to watch.

And there was also the horrible umpire overrule. Zed should have been serving 3-1 in the fifth instead of 2-2.

There is far more pressure serving at 2-2 than 3-1.

Would he have been able to close it out from that 3-1 position?

We will never know. But at the very least it would have gone to a fifth set tiebreaker.

 

[Subway Tennis]

oh yes
am i the only one saying they underperformed?
i heard the sound/word of choke repeatedly everywhere on the forum, which must mean they played well in the eyes of u playing good tennis

Maybe some people see some of themselves in Zverev and don’t like the choke tag, but there is no doubt that at several stages of the match Zverev gave up mentally.

Right at the start of the fourth set he was horrible. Arguing with his Dad, playing terribly, and that was right after he had won the third set and had all the momentum.

Sometimes a choke really is just a choke, even if there are multiple additional circumstances contributing to a loss (which there were in this case for sure).

 

[MichaelNadal]

Maybe some people see some of themselves in Zverev and don’t like the choke tag, but there is no doubt that at several stages of the match Zverev gave up mentally.

Right at the start of the fourth set he was horrible. Arguing with his Dad, playing terribly, and that was right after he had won the third set and had all the momentum.

Sometimes a choke really is just a choke, even if there are multiple additional circumstances contributing to a loss (which there were in this case for sure).

Exactly. There was no need for him to not start the 4th set pumped up.

 

[darthrafa]

Maybe some people see some of themselves in Zverev and don’t like the choke tag, but there is no doubt that at several stages of the match Zverev gave up mentally.

Right at the start of the fourth set he was horrible. Arguing with his Dad, playing terribly, and that was right after he had won the third set and had all the momentum.

Sometimes a choke really is just a choke, even if there are multiple additional circumstances contributing to a loss (which there were in this case for sure).

i dont know what that guy saw
but carlos did try other tatics when his level dropped (= play badly or not) while nothing z changed despite starting losing grounds

for whatever reasons behind, playing badly is underperformance, which is irrelevant to me playing tennis or not

 

[Gary Duane]

When you hear some posters use ‘mug’ and ‘choke‘ to explain every loss or they say ‘weak era’, ‘prime/peak’ etc. or they seem too much of a fanboy of just 1 or 2 players, you can bet that there is a good chance they don’t play tennis.

Nah, they are just idiots.

 

[Subway Tennis]

Exactly. There was no need for him to not start the 4th set pumped up.

It was bizarre.

 

[No_Kwan_Do]

A 4-18 record against top 10 players at slams is abysmal, especially when you consider he only got his first top 10 win 2 years ago against a 19 year old Alcaraz.

 

[Mike Sams]

Zverev has diabetes.
He has to manage his condition while on the court.
That's why he has lulls.
The fact he's done as well as he has is a testament to his determination.

 

[messiahrobins]

Well, comparing Zedrot to Nadal is like comparing Tsitsipas to Federer. These guys are jokes compared to any of the big 3. Obviously Zverev can't handle pressure in slams, he's never been able to. Fed and Nadal have 42 slams between them, Goldie will retire with 0.

After another slam defeat and whimpering off with 3 games in the last two sets, Chainz will choke even more if he ever makes another slam final. Hopefully he won't.

I like Zverev, but the blunt reality is he choked alot of games with inexcusable misses a club player would be annoyed to make. the 1-1 game in the 5th set where he got broke was a level of game that i would have broken Zverev it was that bad, and it can only be nerves got to him again.
The reality is he got 2-1 up, could see Alcaraz was clearly struggling and then the moment got to him and he lost it as evidenced in the first game of fourth set after the second point where he had a mini meltdown to his camp for missing a FH long which to me was the moment i thought Alcara can turn it round as Zverev was feeling it and ultimately wanted it too much as that part of the match showed, he was so uptight then lost 6-1.
He didnt choke as consistently as USO 2020 whih was the chokeof chokes, but there were significant chokes yesterday as bad at various isolated points. At that level it is fatal.

 

[Deleted member 810491]

I'm surprised so many people voted for "Zverev in 5" in the match thread poll, when Alcaraz came into that match with a 10-1 record in 5-setters.
Point is, Zverev had to win this in 4 sets, because he was never going to win it in 5, because the 5th Set comes down to who deals with pressure the best.
So the 4th Set is the problem, and his decision to nurse his groundstrokes into play, instead of powering through them like the 3rd Set.
Zverev appeared to have no interest in controlling the outcome of the 4th Set, and was just waiting for Alcaraz to surrender.

 

[TheSlicer]

I'm surprised so many people voted for "Zverev in 5" in the match thread poll, when Alcaraz came into that match with a 10-1 record in 5-setters.
Point is, Zverev had to win this in 4 sets, because he was never going to win it in 5.
So the 4th Set is the problem, and his decision to nurse his groundstrokes into play, instead of powering through them like the 3rd Set.
Zverev appeared to have no interest in winning the 4th Set, and was just waiting for Alcaraz to surrender.

He really Lost the match in the 4th set

 

[Spin Diesel]

Just put all the toxic posters on the ignore list. My criterion is that if I want nothing to do with a person in real life based on what they say or how they say it when they open their mouth, then I want nothing to do with a similar person online based on what they post.

The problem is that if one of these creates the match thread, you won‘t see it. But luckily it rarely happens

 

[BeatlesFan]

Just put all the toxic posters on the ignore list. My criterion is that if I want nothing to do with a person in real life based on what they say or how they say it when they open their mouth, then I want nothing to do with a similar person online based on what they post.

I am always absolutely flabbergasted people don't liberally use the ignore function. I have 160 people on ignore and you weed out the bores, the nuts and the trolls. The forum would be intolerable without the ignore function.

 

[BeatlesFan]

The problem is that if one of these creates the match thread, you won‘t see it. But luckily it rarely happens

One of the people I have on ignore loves to start threads, though his are grossly inferior to Rattie's match threads. Just scroll to the bottom and click "show ignored content" and you're set. It takes 2 seconds.

 

[Spin Diesel]

One of the people I have on ignore loves to start threads, though his are grossly inferior to Rattie's match threads. Just scroll to the bottom and click "show ignored content" and you're set. It takes 2 seconds.

Yeah sure - it's not a big deal but still a small downside. I'd rather ban them from creating them in the first place